Trump vs Biden 2020, Day 64 of the Pennsylvania count (pt 5) Read OP

DrumSteve

WrenBoy wrote: »

Why not investigate the claims? Why not make the results of said investigation as transparent as possible ?
This will re-assure 99% of Trump voters I'm sure of it. You will always have the fringe conspiracy community, every major event has them, its unavoidable. Its very important that people feel they can trust the voting process otherwise your heading down a very dark road, calls for the country to unify are hollow unless you assuage the concerns of the other side, telling them to shut up without investigating will only make them more convinced of fraud and cover up.

Nothing, and I mean nothing, will re-assure them.

Trump has flung so much **** at this that they will not accept the results even if he wins. Lets be real; they don't care if it is rigged once Don is on the throne.

seamus

Leroy42 wrote: »

Of course not, but this continual attempt to remove them from any responsibility with statements like 'Trump voters aren't racist' or 'Trump voters won't stand for an attack on democracy' is nonsense.

Or, "It's Biden's fault for not providing a good alternative".

The fact is that all 72m of those people are either stupid or evil.

Someone who voted for Trump cannot call themselves a decent, well-informed person. Simple as.

They're either a decent person who is ignorant of what Trump has done over the last four years, or they're an intelligent person who doesn't care.

Stupid or evil. (or both)

WrenBoy

DrumSteve wrote: »

Nothing, and I mean nothing, will re-assure them.

Trump has flung so much **** at this that they will not accept the results even if he wins. Lets be real; they don't care if it is rigged once Don is on the throne.

I disagree and if your being honest you don't know that either, you may believe it, you don't know it.

Tony EH

WrenBoy wrote: »

Why not investigate the claims?

Because claims have to have SOME sort of substance to warrant an investigation in the first place.

So far all that has been put forward has been baseless hearsay and nonsense. That's simply not good enough to waste a lot of time and money on.

WrenBoy

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

Why waste time investigating completely baseless claims from a man with a history of being a sore loser?

Forget Trump, its the voters you need to reassure, the people who vote, all of them need to know that elections are fair and above board. Even the ones who don't agree with you.

ohnonotgmail

WrenBoy wrote: »

Why not investigate the claims? Why not make the results of said investigation as transparent as possible ?
This will re-assure 99% of Trump voters I'm sure of it. You will always have the fringe conspiracy community, every major event has them, its unavoidable. Its very important that people feel they can trust the voting process otherwise your heading down a very dark road, calls for the country to unify are hollow unless you assuage the concerns of the other side, telling them to shut up without investigating will only make them more convinced of fraud and cover up.

It is up tp the person screaming fraud, and they started this BEFORE the election, to prove fraud. they haven't done that, not even close. Trump needs to put on his big boy panties and admit he lost.

Smee_Again

WrenBoy wrote: »

Why not investigate the claims? Why not make the results of said investigation as transparent as possible ?

Because any rebuttal with facts is dismissed as part of the bigger conspiracy or they simply move the goalposts.

The Raging Bile Duct

WrenBoy wrote: »

Why not investigate the claims? Why not make the results of said investigation as transparent as possible ?
This will re-assure 99% of Trump voters I'm sure of it. You will always have the fringe conspiracy community, every major event has them, its unavoidable. Its very important that people feel they can trust the voting process otherwise your heading down a very dark road, calls for the country to unify are hollow unless you assuage the concerns of the other side, telling them to shut up without investigating will only make them more convinced of fraud and cover up.

Oh, I'm all for investigating the claims and to have them proven false but there's no way that 99% of Trump voters will be reassured by any investigation. Unless Trump comes out and admits what he said was nonsense - something he will never do - a sizeable proportion of them will still believe the election was rigged.

ohnonotgmail

WrenBoy wrote: »

Forget Trump, its the voters you need to reassure, the people who vote, all of them need to know that elections are fair and above board. Even the ones who don't agree with you.

you can't forget Trump. If people need reassuring it is because he constantly spews baseless lies about election fraud.

WrenBoy

WrenBoy wrote: »

Forget Trump, its the voters you need to reassure, the people who vote, all of them need to know that elections are fair and above board. Even the ones who don't agree with you.

They do know this. Trump nor his supporters were not concerned that their was fraud in the election four years ago.

In fact, they should be more confident that there is no fraud in this election as pointless lawsuits have already been thrown out by the courts at their first step, whereas nobody made similarly stupid lawsuits four years ago because of, you know, common sense.

cnocbui

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Literally any anti trump / BLM / antifa protest since november 2016, come on its blindingly obvious

You are completely out of touch with reality, in a bad way.

New research, based on almost 900 politically-motivated plots and murders in the US since 1994, found only one person's death in the last 25 years was linked to "antifa" or anti-fascists, and the person who died was the attacker.
In comparison, over that same period, 329 murders were linked to the far-right.

https://www.businessinsider.com/right-wing-extremists-kill-329-since-1994-antifa-killed-none-2020-7?op=1&r=US&IR=T

Attorney General William Barr and other top government officials have frequently blamed Antifa activists for the violence stemming from recent demonstrations in the wake George Floyd's death; however, in NPR's review of court documents of 51 individuals facing federal charges related to protests, none is alleged to have links to the Antifa movement.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/tommybeer/2020/06/10/51-protesters-facing-federal-charges-yet-no-sign-of-antifa-involvement/

You appear to be swallowing the pot stirring spittle ejected by Trump, Barr and right wing media, completely unfiltered (eewww).

Anyway, back to the election. Violence from the left - none. Meanwhile, your boys hatched a plot to kidnap the Democrat governor of Michigan and to kill key police officers. While in Alabama, a police chief reckons people who vote Democrat should be lined up and shot in the head.

Jin luk

[Deleted User] wrote: »

No, nor Democrats.

https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2020-09-05/is-trump-right-are-democrats-destroying-cities-states

Most democrat supporters are left wing supporters these days

Doctor Jimbob

WrenBoy wrote: »

Forget Trump, its the voters you need to reassure, the people who vote, all of them need to know that elections are fair and above board. Even the ones who don't agree with you.

There's plenty of evidence that elections are above board. If people want to ignore the evidence because they hang on the every word of a narcissistic man-child, that's on them.

Pandering to this nonsense only encourages it. If investigations start it will be "ah, see, there must be something in it if they're looking into it".

cnocbui

cnocbui wrote: »

You are completely out of touch with reality, in a bad way.

https://www.businessinsider.com/right-wing-extremists-kill-329-since-1994-antifa-killed-none-2020-7?op=1&r=US&IR=T

https://www.forbes.com/sites/tommybeer/2020/06/10/51-protesters-facing-federal-charges-yet-no-sign-of-antifa-involvement/

You appear to be swallowing the pot stirring spittle ejected by Trump, Barr and right wing media, completely unfiltered (eewww).

Anyway, back to the election. Violence from the left - none. Meanwhile, your boys hatched a plot to kidnap the Democrat governor of Michigan and to kill key police officers. While in Alabama, a police chief reckons people who vote Democrat should be lined up and shot in the head.

Don't forget about:

• The harassment of the Biden campaign bus in Texas
• The Arkansas police chief who was forced to resign after calling for violence against democrats
• The 350,000 member "Stop the Steal" Facebook group that called for violence
• The armed men who were going to storm the vote counting centre in Philadelphia
• Steve Bannon calling for beheadings

etc etc.

Jin luk

Jin luk wrote: »

Most democrat supporters are left wing supporters these days

And? What's your point?

ohnonotgmail

Jin luk wrote: »

Most democrat supporters are left wing supporters these days

nonsense

Doctor Jimbob

Jin luk wrote: »

Most democrat supporters are left wing supporters these days

Someone should tell that to the people in the Democratic party who chose a centre-right politician to run for president, or the close to 80 million people who voted for him as president.

VinLieger

Jin luk wrote: »

Most democrat supporters are left wing supporters these days

Like many others in this thread you seem to be under the misapprehension that the US democrats are in any way a left wing party.


US politics has completely warped the meaning of left wing to basically mean anyone not Republicans.

PropJoe10

WrenBoy wrote: »

Forget Trump, its the voters you need to reassure, the people who vote, all of them need to know that elections are fair and above board. Even the ones who don't agree with you.

There's little that can be done to reassure voters at this stage, due to Trump making totally false and baseless claims about the integrity of the election. His one and only target here is to de-stabilise and delegitimise Biden's presidency as much as possible, and to hell with the consequences for the country. That much is blatantly clear.


It was always going to happen, but it doesn't make it any less disappointing.

WrenBoy

Im just going to post without quoting because a lot of posters responded with similar rebuttals.
A waste of time and money is not a good enough reason to not investigate the claims, Americans spend money to have jets fly over football games its not a time and money thing. Even if you believe that investigations wont convince all, convincing even 50% of them is a worthwhile endeavour its a huge deal if a large portion of your population have no faith in the voting system and everything should be done to protect it.
If there is refusal to investigate and do so with transparency you will only push more into the camp who think the election has been "stolen" and cement the doubts of those you still have a chance to prove wrong.

ohnonotgmail

WrenBoy wrote: »

Im just going to post without quoting because a lot of posters responded with similar rebuttals.
A waste of time and money is not a good enough reason to not investigate the claims, Americans spend money to have jets fly over football games its not a time and money thing. Even if you believe that investigations wont convince all, convincing even 50% of them is a worthwhile endeavour its a huge deal if a large portion of your population have no faith in the voting system and everything should be done to protect it.
If there is refusal to investigate and do so with transparency you will only push more into the camp who think the election has been "stolen" and cement the doubts of those you still have a chance to prove wrong.

Trumps supporters will think what he tells them to think. it is a cult. It is nonsense to think otherwise

cnocbui

WrenBoy wrote: »

Im just going to post without quoting because a lot of posters responded with similar rebuttals.
A waste of time and money is not a good enough reason to not investigate the claims, Americans spend money to have jets fly over football games its not a time and money thing. Even if you believe that investigations wont convince all, convincing even 50% of them is a worthwhile endeavour its a huge deal if a large portion of your population have no faith in the voting system and everything should be done to protect it.
If there is refusal to investigate and do so with transparency you will only push more into the camp who think the election has been "stolen" and cement the doubts of those you still have a chance to prove wrong.

Investigate what? There is no evidence, there is nothing to investigate. There is no point investigating a made up baseless allegation that exists just to create a deliberate nuisance.

eagle eye

Deleted User wrote:

Eric and Co conveniently ignoring that right wing terrorism is viewed as greatest threat in the US by the FBI.

Right win could be either party in fairness.

lemonTrees

Leroy42 wrote: »

You think that armed militias, whose whole raison d'etre is to stand up to corrupt government, will stand by when they believe that the very core of their country, democracy itself, has been stolen?

Yes. They are full of hot air just like Trump.

There will be no civil war. Anyone suggesting there will be is just a bit daft.

robinph

Jin luk wrote: »

Most democrat supporters are left wing supporters these days

So we're now OK with stating that most Trump supporters are racists then?

Leroy42

WrenBoy wrote: »

Im just going to post without quoting because a lot of posters responded with similar rebuttals.
A waste of time and money is not a good enough reason to not investigate the claims, Americans spend money to have jets fly over football games its not a time and money thing. Even if you believe that investigations wont convince all, convincing even 50% of them is a worthwhile endeavour its a huge deal if a large portion of your population have no faith in the voting system and everything should be done to protect it.
If there is refusal to investigate and do so with transparency you will only push more into the camp who think the election has been "stolen" and cement the doubts of those you still have a chance to prove wrong.

Of course there should be an investigation if there is enough evidence that it warrants it. But Trump being angry at the result, or that joe overheard a guy in a shop say something about another person that saw a friend on facebook etc is not grounds.

They have plenty of systems in place to ensure the security of the process. They undertake checks during the count, their our observers to watch over them, the computer systems are verified, sample ballot are reviewed etc.

You seem to think that nothing at all is in place and that an investigation is needed as there is no evidence that it works. But the vast majority of evidence says it works. There has been no evidence of who carried out the fraud, under what conditions, who was involved, who paid for it. Nothing.

The weight of evidence lies with those seeking to claim something is amiss.

Trump basically wants to start a fishing expedition in the hope that something, anything might turn up and they can work from there.

Trump openly stated that he wouldn't accept the results if he lost, yet his 72m+ voters didn't care. What makes you think that any reporting or court case will assuage them from the notion that the election was fair?

Do they have to lose every case? Or just most of them? Does every state get recounted r just some of them? Do senate and house votes get recounted or just some of them?

The problem really lies with the fact that Trump isn't actually claiming voter fraud. He is claiming voter fraud only in those states that he thinks he could possibly win. And no one has been able to answer why, if the Dems and the media have undertaken such a fraud, why they wouldn't also include Senate and House races? Or why not stick closer to the polls?

Doctor Jimbob

lemonTrees wrote: »

Yes. They are full of hot air just like Trump.

There will be no civil war. Anyone suggesting there will be is just a bit daft.

Trump won't be the same as other politicians, anyone who thinks he will is daft.

Trump won't try to invalidate a legitimate election, anyone who thinks so is daft.

Trump won't try to cling to power, anyone who thinks he will is daft.

And so on.

ohnonotgmail

eagle eye wrote: »

Right win could be either party in fairness.

you know exactly what they meant.

eagle eye

ohnonotgmail wrote:

you know exactly what they meant.

Are you saying they had an agenda?

Movementarian

WrenBoy wrote: »

Im just going to post without quoting because a lot of posters responded with similar rebuttals.
A waste of time and money is not a good enough reason to not investigate the claims, Americans spend money to have jets fly over football games its not a time and money thing. Even if you believe that investigations wont convince all, convincing even 50% of them is a worthwhile endeavour its a huge deal if a large portion of your population have no faith in the voting system and everything should be done to protect it.
If there is refusal to investigate and do so with transparency you will only push more into the camp who think the election has been "stolen" and cement the doubts of those you still have a chance to prove wrong.

I don't mean any disrespect but people just calling for 'investigation' ad nauseum without any specific reason why are exactly the problem.

Most commentators/people have all come out and said yes obviously it should only be legal votes counted. But until there are specific claims backed by evidence its almost impossible to 'investigate' to the extent people want. Thats why nearly all of the cases brought so far to court are being dismissed out of hand. People are rightly growing a bit exasperated because in the end it does have to be a waste of time and money if there is no basis for it.

What if I was a neighbour of yours and kept reporting that you had done various things to my property or some such, had no evidence at all but kept making claims to the guards and trying to bring you to court. How long do you think they would put up with it?