Trump vs Biden 2020, Day 64 of the Pennsylvania count (pt 5) Read OP

Jin luk

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Great, would you like to respond to my earlier post then?

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=115222488&postcount=3302

Fair enough, it's a rotten statement to make completely agree with that.

Trump has made some crazy remarks in his time he speaks before he thinks.

km991148

Jin luk wrote: »

Look up left wing country's and see the comparison to country's who has governments made up of centre to right wing governments.

Its really not hard to see.

Look up what? How are you qualifing 'better'? What 'right wing policies' contributed to better?

Sweeping generalisations won't convince anyone.. I'm trying to help you out here..

Jin luk

robinph wrote: »

Does left wing mean violent rioter?

Nope not at all but I just feel they don't like when someone has a different opinion to themselves.

When pegida came to Ireland a few years back it was the left wing who organised the counter protest and ran them is that not what a democracy is supposed to be?

An opinion for every person not just to be censored under 1 banner and 1 branch of beliefs?

wes

It has been long established that Trump is racist. There is literally years of evidences of the mans racism, and we are talking about stuff from long before his Presidency. Here is just one example:

Trump Will Not Apologize for Calling for Death Penalty Over Central Park Five


Its amazing the people will claim Trump is not a racist with a straight face.

Jin luk

Jin luk wrote: »

Fair enough, it's a rotten statement to make completely agree with that.

Trump has made some crazy remarks in his time he speaks before he thinks.

Good man for agreeing with me instead of trying to cling to some weird logic like others have.

km991148

Christy42 wrote: »

I mean western european/ new zealand/Canada vs the rest of the world?

I am cool with left wing government on that evidence.

Yep, I wonder how many working class in the UK are doing well with 10+ years of the Conservatives in power..

Will be even more interesting when they need to start paying for healthcare.

eagle eye

eagle eye wrote: »

I'm sure there's people on both the left and right that hold the same views on both those topics. What's that got to do with what I said?
I'm saying the more extreme you go, either way, the more these people become nasty.

I agree with that, but it's not exactly what you said earlier.

Anyway, it's of little importance.

km991148

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Good man for agreeing with me instead of trying to cling to some weird logic like others have.

The only slight out is that he says racist things but he doesn't actually commit to being a racist because his narcissism stops him from even thinking about others..

Kinda like ignorance being an excuse (it's not of course).

km991148

km991148 wrote: »

The only slight out is that he says racist things but he doesn't actually commit to being a racist because his narcissism stops him from even thinking about others..

Kinda like ignorance being an excuse (it's not of course).

Yeah I did notice that but it was a far better response than I was expecting.

Jin luk

km991148 wrote: »

Look up what? How are you qualifing 'better'? What 'right wing policies' contributed to better?

Sweeping generalisations won't convince anyone.. I'm trying to help you out here..

Australia
Japan
USA
South Korea

These are all major players on the world stage.

km991148

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Yeah I did notice that but it was a far better response than I was expecting.

I meant that as a generalisation myself, not necessarily in reference to the other poster.. but yes, I think it's important not to make up some bs excuse for him.

Similarly I don't really believe that (all) Trump fans are racist. They certainly don't prioritise racism as something to care about, or they don't care that they vote for a racist. But are they actually racist by extension? I'm not sure.

Quin_Dub

WrenBoy wrote: »

Why not investigate the claims? Why not make the results of said investigation as transparent as possible ?
This will re-assure 99% of Trump voters I'm sure of it. You will always have the fringe conspiracy community, every major event has them, its unavoidable. Its very important that people feel they can trust the voting process otherwise your heading down a very dark road, calls for the country to unify are hollow unless you assuage the concerns of the other side, telling them to shut up without investigating will only make them more convinced of fraud and cover up.

Do you honestly, genuinely believe that when all the court cases are thrown out and the recounts don't change the results that Trump will suddenly say "Ah ok fair enough, thanks for checking - Well done Joe, congratulations"?

He won't - He'll double-down and claim that it's a deep-state conspiracy and that any GOP affiliated person that comes out and says that the election was all above board is a RINO/Never-Trumper etc. etc. - I mean he's already doing that and that's before they've finished.

For those that actually believe that there was a coordinated effort to "steal" the election , there is no assuaging , there is no explaining. They are lost in the morass of conspiracy theories and lies.

km991148

Quin_Dub wrote: »

Do you honestly, genuinely believe that when all the court cases are thrown out and the recounts don't change the results that Trump will suddenly say "Ah ok fair enough, thanks for checking - Well done Joe, congratulations"?

He won't - He'll double-down and claim that it's a deep-state conspiracy and that any GOP affiliated person that comes out and says that the election was all above board is a RINO/Never-Trumper etc. etc. - I mean he's already doing that and that's before they've finished.

For those that actually believe that their was a coordinated effort to "steal" the election , there is no assuaging , there is no explaining. They are lost in the morass of conspiracy theories and lies.

Absolutely, this is not going away any time soon.

It's just a case of how many people follow him and how many realise he is a self centred shameless prick.

Polar101

This talk of civil war or a military coup makes no sense and greatly overexaggerates the importance of Donald Trump. He's just a guy who lost an election and is upset about it. 250 million Americans didn't vote for him. A lot of Americans have owned guns before, but they haven't had civil wars in over 150 years. Going to need a bit more to start a new one, than some nonsensical accusations about election fraud.

Carfacemandog

Jin luk wrote: »

Australia
Japan
USA
South Korea

These are all major players on the world stage.

Zubeneschamali

Jin luk wrote: »

Why is it always dragged back to racism when it's an argument of left and right wing policies?

Can you point us to the policies Trump ran on?

Or the Republican party platform?

No, you can't because they are just a party of power for old white men.

km991148

km991148 wrote: »

I meant that as a generalisation myself, not necessarily in reference to the other poster.. but yes, I think it's important not to make up some bs excuse for him.

Similarly I don't really believe that (all) Trump fans are racist. They certainly don't prioritise racism as something to care about, or they don't care that they vote for a racist. But are they actually racist by extension? I'm not sure.

I typically put Trump fans into one of three categories:

• They are ignorant to his racism (majority)
• They accept that he is a racist but are OK with it (some)
• They are racist themselves (minority)

I would say the first group are not racist by extension. But the second? That's a tougher call.

km991148

Jin luk wrote: »

Australia
Japan
USA
South Korea

These are all major players on the world stage.

And you could easily debate Au and USA with regards to what markers you use to define better and how that was influenced directly by right wing policy. Not to mention 'left wing' policies could have done far better as well.

Too wide a statement tbh

Carfacemandog

Quin_Dub wrote: »

Do you honestly, genuinely believe that when all the court cases are thrown out and the recounts don't change the results that Trump will suddenly say "Ah ok fair enough, thanks for checking - Well done Joe, congratulations"?

If you sit back and give it a moments thought, do you honestly, genuinely believe that when all the court cases are thrown out and recounts don't change teh results that Wrenboy will suddenly say. "Ah ok fair enough, thanks for checking - Well done Joe, congratulations"?

He won't - He'll double-down and claim that it's a deep-state conspiracy and that any GOP affiliated person that comes out and says that the election was all above board is a RINO/Never-Trumper etc. etc.

bocaman

This refusal to accept a Biden victory is all about keeping the attorneys from the door. As soon as Donald Trump becomes a private citizen people will be knocking on his door. 4 more years in the White House and like any good thief he's home free. The principal of democracy and the democratic will of the people is only secondary.

Movementarian

Jin luk wrote: »

Australia
Japan
USA
South Korea

These are all major players on the world stage.

The USA alone:

1. No federally defined working week in terms of hours leading to mass exploitation of workforce.
2. No federally defined paid annual leave entitlement or maternity/paternity leave.
3. No federally defined minimum wage, nor in many of the states. Only in the 2020 election process was a $15 minimum wage introduced in Florida.
4. No public healthcare system

Major player on the world stage yes, **** place to work if you are not well off. Think I am happy enough in the predominantly centre-left leaning Europe thanks.

GeorgeBailey

Deleted User wrote: »

I typically put Trump fans into one of three categories:

• They are ignorant to his racism (majority)
• They accept that he is a racist but are OK with it (some)
• They are racist themselves (minority)

I would say the first group are not racist by extension. But the second? That's a tougher call.

There's also a significant group of people who really, really don't like Trump's personality but appreciate the things he has achieved for conservatism in his term, e.g. supreme court.

cnocbui

Jin luk wrote: »

Australia
Japan
USA
South Korea

These are all major players on the world stage.

I'm an Australian and my experience has been the country has always been a far better place and done better when it has had left wing governments, the Hawk and Keating governments in the 80's in particular. It was the left wing government of Kevin Rudd which used helicopter money to stave off the GFC, and it worked. Left wing governements gave Australia one of the absolute best health care systems in the world, and one of the best superannuation systems of compulsory retirement savings. The right wing government of Howard introduced a GST (VAT) and allowed foregn companies to gain control and almost all the benefit from Australia's mineral resources.

A left wing government introduced free tertiary eduction and it changed the country. Then a right wing government abolished it and copied the disasterous American model of education as a business.

The right wing governments powered by neo-con policies, sold off state assets to the wealth classes leading to the country now having some of the most expensive electricity in the world. I really could go on and on about the financial evils perpetrated by Australian right wing governments.

New Zealand has a left wing government lead by Jacinda Ardern, one of the most admired world leaders today.

The UK only has the NHS because of a left wing government. How's it's current right wing government doing? Highest number of covid deaths in Europe, Brexit and dire financial consequences predicted by the Bank of England.

GeorgeBailey

GeorgeBailey wrote: »

There's also a significant group of people who really, really don't like Trump's personality but appreciate the things he has achieved for conservatism in his term, e.g. supreme court.

They would be in category 1 or 2, depending on whether they consider him racist or not.

cnocbui

GeorgeBailey wrote: »

There's also a significant group of people who really, really don't like Trump's personality but appreciate the things he has achieved for conservatism in his term, e.g. supreme court.

Rigging the judicial system is in your eyes an admirable achievement? It's a prime example of the cancerous right wing nonsense that is the root cause of the corrosive divisiveness in the US.

Carfacemandog

Carfacemandog wrote: »

If you sit back and give it a moments thought, do you honestly, genuinely believe that when all the court cases are thrown out and recounts don't change teh results that Wrenboy will suddenly say. "Ah ok fair enough, thanks for checking - Well done Joe, congratulations"?

He won't - He'll double-down and claim that it's a deep-state conspiracy and that any GOP affiliated person that comes out and says that the election was all above board is a RINO/Never-Trumper etc. etc.

Once the EC process is concluded and he has to leave, my prediction is that he will give an absolutely poisonous speech, winding up his base and coming as close to inciting violence as he dare.

And then for the next presidential term, he will continue to hold rallies, completely undermining Biden, giving continuous airtime to QAnon and other conspiracy groups, adding to the volume of fake news, and keeping the GOP beholden to him and his policies for fear of alienating his supporters. He is the most dangerous man in the world at the moment in my opinion

nolivesmatter

Polar101 wrote: »

This talk of civil war or a military coup makes no sense and greatly overexaggerates the importance of Donald Trump. He's just a guy who lost an election and is upset about it. 250 million Americans didn't vote for him. A lot of Americans have owned guns before, but they haven't had civil wars in over 150 years. Going to need a bit more to start a new one, than some nonsensical accusations about election fraud.

That's a weird way to describe it seeing about 180 million didn't vote at all. You could literally say the same thing about Biden.

But I agree that the notion of a civil war because of this is silly. The Democrats just need to wait it out for a few weeks until everything is certified.

WrenBoy

Quin_Dub wrote: »

Do you honestly, genuinely believe that when all the court cases are thrown out and the recounts don't change the results that Trump will suddenly say "Ah ok fair enough, thanks for checking - Well done Joe, congratulations"?

He won't - He'll double-down and claim that it's a deep-state conspiracy and that any GOP affiliated person that comes out and says that the election was all above board is a RINO/Never-Trumper etc. etc. - I mean he's already doing that and that's before they've finished.

For those that actually believe that there was a coordinated effort to "steal" the election , there is no assuaging , there is no explaining. They are lost in the morass of conspiracy theories and lies.

I don't care what he says, its about making the effort to assuage the fears of voters who believe a democratic election has been corrupted to some degree or other. By telling them to shut up and that they are stupid/racist/etc (not you specifically) you only drive further division increasing their distrust and even legitimising it to a degree. With a transparent investigation you at least will show you care about voters concerns and about maintaining fairness, most of them may then believe elections can be trusted. I believe its an important thing to do, others disagree thats on them.

On your second point, if your being honest that is just your own opinion. Some would certainly feel that way as I said before all major events have these people spring up 9/11, JFK, Elvis, etc . The majority are people who have had their trust in the institutions eroded over the last few years and so are more sceptical than ever. They now have doubts about this election, I repeat that ignoring them will lead to more division and a bad result down the road.

Non solum non ambulabit

Jin luk wrote: »

Australia
Japan
USA
South Korea

These are all major players on the world stage.

Australia, Japan and South Korea would be more left wing than the Democrats. Significantly so.

Left wing in the US means taxing rich and nationalised healthcare.

km991148

cnocbui wrote: »

I'm an Australian and my experience has been the country has always been a far better place and done better when it has had left wing governments, the Hawk and Keating governments in the 80's in particular. It was the left wing government of Kevin Rudd which used helicopter money to stave off the GFC, and it worked. Left wing governements gave Australia one of the absolute best health care systems in the world, and one of the best superannuation systems of compulsory retirement savings. The right wing government of Howard introduced a GST (VAT) and allowed foregn companies to gain control and almost all the benefit from Australia's mineral resources.

A left wing government introduced free tertiary eduction and it changed the country. Then a right wing government abolished it and copied the disasterous American model of education as a business.

The right wing governments powered by neo-con policies, sold off state assets to the wealth classes leading to the country now having some of the most expensive electricity in the world. I really could go on and on about the financial evils perpetrated by Australian right wing governments.

New Zealand has a left wing government lead by Jacinda Ardern, one of the most admired world leaders today.

The UK only has the NHS because of a left wing government. How's it's current right wing government doing? Highest number of covid deaths in Europe, Brexit and dire financial consequences predicted by the Bank of England.

And this is what p!sses me off tbh - there are clear benefits for all (generally) under a left wing government, but these days we are all too keep to group together on things that don't actually impact the day to day (or don't impact as much as made out by some).

I don't want to enumerate a list as its going to drag the thread away from Trump vs Biden..