Trump vs Biden 2020, Day 64 of the Pennsylvania count (pt 5) Read OP

seamus

drogon. wrote: »

Surely there she should realise they would have CCTV to disprove her. It is really embarrassing at this point.

You're overthinking it by suggestng that she gave this story any consideration beyond the initial story.

By the look of her I'd say she was handed a few dollars, a piece of paper with this story on it, and told that the "media exposure" from this would be great and she'd gain lots of insta followers so she could take her influencer career to the next level.

hirondelle

WrenBoy wrote: »

When did I say Trumps presidency was fully peaceful ? I pointed out something in the news about Bidens appointments and the conversation went straight to ya but what about Trump.

Jesus wept- you are the one that set up the contrast between the current incumbent and Biden taking over. Do you not understand your own posts?

WrenBoy

WrenBoy wrote: »

Just watch in a year or 2 being anti-war will be considered far right. Looking forward to it.

You seem to actively ignore user's points...

DubInMeath

DubInMeath wrote: »

Russia has had a naval base in Syria since the 70s and has always been their main arms supplier

Plenty of people criticized the intervention in Lybia but the growth of Islamic groups can be traced back further to the previous bush sr and Regan administration's and Russian involvement in Afghanistan.

As for freedom of the press, mainly right wing and left wing countries.

As for supporting trump/racism etc, yep for some that's why they support him. As for posters on here, well their post history speaks for their opinions.

Don't know if Biden will be responsible for involving the U.S. in any police actions or other armed interventions, during his tenure, but he might not pretend that he isn't doing something that he actually is, unlike trump.

Also in relation to press freedom, Trump has actively spent his presidency attacking the press. The likes of the Maga bomber existed as a result of his rhetoric. His main target was the press, specifically outlets that Trump attacked.

MadYaker

WrenBoy wrote: »

When did I say Trumps presidency was fully peaceful ? I pointed out something in the news about Bidens appointments and the conversation went straight to ya but what about Trump.

You said it would be back to business for arms companies now that Biden is in. If you keep posting in bad faith and putting words in people’s mouths you’ll probably get banned.

What do we think will happen in 2024? I expect Trump to cause chaos by making lots of noise about running but not actually committing to it. He’ll be 78 then and he’s in much worse shape than Biden even though he’s a few years younger.

everlast75

https://twitter.com/betsy_klein/status/1327243995089686528?s=20

Purely ****ing delusional

Boggles

Poor Peter

joe40

everlast75 wrote: »

https://twitter.com/betsy_klein/status/1327243995089686528?s=20

Purely ****ing delusional

And Boris Johnson thought he could negotiate a trade deal with those fools.

duploelabs

[Deleted User] wrote: »

You seem to actively ignore user's points...

They always do when challenged by an uncomfortable truth

kowloon

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

Personally, I’m forever indebted to her for explaining what 24 hours means. Cheers, Mellissa!

I'm still trying to get my head around it.

nolivesmatter

WrenBoy wrote: »

When did I say Trumps presidency was fully peaceful ? I pointed out something in the news about Bidens appointments and the conversation went straight to ya but what about Trump.

Deflection to Trump is very common here. It's a defense mechanism. But if Trump is considered bottom of the barrel by many it's hardly much of a defense.

Zubeneschamali

nolivesmatter wrote: »

Deflection to Trump is very common here.

The thread is literally titled Trump vs. Biden

nolivesmatter

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

The thread is literally titled Trump vs. Biden

So? "but Trump is worse" can't be the answer to every Biden criticism.

duploelabs

nolivesmatter wrote: »

So? "but Trump is worse" can't be the answer to every Biden criticism.

In a digital choice, yes it is

WrenBoy

hirondelle wrote: »

Good man, you are twisting words I haven't written. Engage in good faith or not at all. I have not said anything indicating preference to Biden or stating that the Democrats will do anything other than the same all recent US regimes, whether war is declared or not, Trump did nothing to dismantle the military industrial complex.
I am also pointing out that you are trying to paint a false picture of the reality of Trump's single term as being a peaceful one.

MeMen2_MoRi_ wrote: »

It's not about diversion, you mistakenly think that Don has done things differently then the guy/guys before him and that will come after him..

You're wrong.

Trying to get on the higher horse in an equal race is some fallacy.

hirondelle wrote: »

Jesus wept- you are the one that set up the contrast between the current incumbent and Biden taking over. Do you not understand your own posts?

Deleted User wrote: »

You seem to actively ignore user's points...

MadYaker wrote: »

You said it would be back to business for arms companies now that Biden is in. If you keep posting in bad faith and putting words in people’s mouths you’ll probably get banned.

What do we think will happen in 2024? I expect Trump to cause chaos by making lots of noise about running but not actually committing to it. He’ll be 78 then and he’s in much worse shape than Biden even though he’s a few years younger.

duploelabs wrote: »

They always do when challenged by an uncomfortable truth

"One Third of Biden's Pentagon Transition Team Hails From Organizations Financed by the Weapons Industry"

https://inthesetimes.com/article/joe...ustry-military

https://twitter.com/JoeBiden/status/1326306141056364544

Thats my original post you all have such a problem with, Is it good or bad that these people have big positions in Bidens Team or do you not care ?

Padre_Pio

nolivesmatter wrote: »

So? "but Trump is worse" can't be the answer to every Biden criticism.

That's modern politics in a nutshell unfortunately.
Its like monkeys throwing sh*t at each other.

"Oh I did something bad? Well your party did X worse!"
The boys in Westminster have turned it into an art form :rolleyes:

nolivesmatter

duploelabs wrote: »

In a digital choice, yes it is

You'll have to help me out here, what do you mean by digital choice?

VinLieger

nolivesmatter wrote: »

You'll have to help me out here, what do you mean by digital choice?

Im gonna guess the poster meant a binary choice

bennyineire

nolivesmatter wrote: »

So? "but Trump is worse" can't be the answer to every Biden criticism.

But he clearly is in almost every metric

Tell me how

WrenBoy wrote: »

Business as usual..

Biden voted for the Afghanistan and Iraq wars, which resulted in 7,037 American troop fatalities and 53,117 American troop injuries. About 84 percent of Afghanistan casualties (19,350 of 23,113) occurred under Obama/Biden, while 95 percent of Iraq casualties (35,182 of 37,041) occurred under Bush/Cheney. Only 1 percent of all casualties occurred under Trump/Pence.

After eight years of Obama/Biden The Institute for Economics and Peace’s Global Peace Index reported a decade-long decline in peace, with terrorism at an all-time high, battle deaths from conflict at a 25-year high and the number of refugees at a level not seen in 60 years.

The U.S. State Department reported a 34 percent growth in foreign terrorist organizations since Obama/Biden took office in 2009, with about 75 percent of them operating in Muslim-majority countries.
and decisions detrimentally affected the U.S. economy, U.S. national security, and international peace and security.

Freedom House reported that as of 2016, global freedom had declined for 10 consecutive years, with press freedom at its lowest point in 12 years. Of the world’s 7.3 billion people at the time, only 40 percent lived in freedom and only 13 percent enjoyed a free press.

The Obama/Biden reset policy with Russia (2009-2013) backfired as Russia annexed Crimea from Ukraine in 2014 and entered the Syria civil war in 2015, which eventually allowed the Kremlin to establish long-term agreements for a Russian airbase and seaport in that country.

The administration’s Libyan misadventure turned into a disaster, with four American diplomats murdered in Benghazi and Libya becoming a failed state.

Obama’s defense secretary, Robert Gates, raised serious questions about Biden’s security judgments. In his 2014 book, “Duty: Memoirs of a Secretary at War,” Gates wrote that “he (Biden) has been wrong on nearly every foreign policy and national security issue over the past four decades.”

Criticising Biden is not support of Trump and all his policies. Will any criticism of Joe in the future be answered with well you must be a far right Trumpist Racist ?

With reference to the bolded section, absolutely not, but this type of post, at this time, is deserving to be answered in that way.

Also, as pointed out, Obama/Biden were left trying to extract the US from wars initiated very much by neo-cons in the Republican administration of George Bush.

In terms of Libya, the US's intervention there was to implement a UN Security Council resolution. At the time, it was expected that Gaddafi was engaging in war crimes against civilians during an ongoing civil war. It was far from the case that Gaddafi was sitting pleasantly in Tripoli beloved by his people until the US decided to pick a fight (even though they are capable of doing that, see IRAQ 2 for reference).

Given that you put such effort in to the international conflict policies of the time of the Obama administration, I wonder what your view is of Trumps decision to exit the Iran Nuclear deal, and to carry out provocative actions elsewhere in the middle east through the repositioning of the US embassy in Israel and the show act of a middle east peace deal ignoring Palestine.
Or what about his subservience to Saudi Arabia who killed and butchered a US citizen and journalist? Not to mention his emboldening of Kim Jong-Un and acquiescence to Putin as Russia placed bounties on US soldiers in Afghanistan.

Back to Libya though, and your reference to 4 dead Americans, the Republicans held 6 house committee investigations in to the events surrounding this (there were 4 other investigations) saying that it was owed to the American people to do so. Hillary Clinton (the primary focus of the investigations) answered questions for 8 hours in committee hearings and was largely absolved from wrongdoing.
How many house committee investigations do you think should be held to determine the failings of this administration and specifically the President in relation to the Covid 29 pandemic which has, to this point, killed over 60,000 times more people than died in that event in Libya? Yes, that is 60,000 times more deaths.

You should take off the MAGA hat when asking people to have an open discussion about Biden or the wider Obama administration he was involved in.

Quin_Dub

WrenBoy wrote: »

"One Third of Biden's Pentagon Transition Team Hails From Organizations Financed by the Weapons Industry"

https://inthesetimes.com/article/joe...ustry-military

https://twitter.com/JoeBiden/status/1326306141056364544

Thats my original post you all have such a problem with, Is it good or bad that these people have big positions in Bidens Team or do you not care ?

The replies were basically to say - Not sure that it means a whole lot.

They appear to have qualifications/experience appropriate to the roles they are selected for , which is a good thing.

Their historical alignment to the Arms industry may or may not become an issue.

And has been pointed out , a "return" to how things were before Trump would mean a reduction in Drone Strikes and a significant reduction in arms sales.

Neither would be a bad thing.

hirondelle

hirondelle wrote: »

Good man, you are twisting words I haven't written. Engage in good faith or not at all. I have not said anything indicating preference to Biden or stating that the Democrats will do anything other than the same all recent US regimes, whether war is declared or not, Trump did nothing to dismantle the military industrial complex.
I am also pointing out that you are trying to paint a false picture of the reality of Trump's single term as being a peaceful one.

WrenBoy wrote: »

"One Third of Biden's Pentagon Transition Team Hails From Organizations Financed by the Weapons Industry"

https://inthesetimes.com/article/joe...ustry-military

https://twitter.com/JoeBiden/status/1326306141056364544

Thats my original post you all have such a problem with, Is it good or bad that these people have big positions in Bidens Team or do you not care ?

And I stated after that Biden would be no different to the previous US administrations, what irked me was your insistence that Trump represented a break with this because he "didn't start any wars", but all you do is come back with Joe Biden is a warmonger etc.

You are a bad faith poster.

Carfacemandog

nolivesmatter wrote: »

So? "but Trump is worse" can't be the answer to every Biden criticism.

Would "conservative tears" be more acceptable to you? It's about all most of the trump supporters like the one you quoted deserve given how little fcuks they gave about the things they are complaining about prior to Trump losing the election.

nolivesmatter

VinLieger wrote: »

Im gonna guess the poster meant a binary choice

Ok. That makes sense when deciding who to vote for.

bennyineire wrote: »

But he clearly is in almost every metric

Ok. But that doesn't address any question about Biden himself.

everlast75

nolivesmatter wrote: »

So? "but Trump is worse" can't be the answer to every Biden criticism.

Well, when Trump has behaved so egregiously for 4 years, unprecedently so, you can understand people saying that his supporters have no moral highground to criticise others.

Harsh, but they would have been acutely aware that they were behaving like assholes for 4 years and karma was bound to come around and bite them where it hurts.

So, in a nutshell, suck it up.

nolivesmatter

everlast75 wrote: »

Well, when Trump has behaved so egregiously for 4 years, unprecedently so, you can understand people saying that his supporters have no moral highground to criticise others.

Harsh, but they would have been acutely aware that they were behaving like assholes for 4 years and karma was bound to come around and bite them where it hurts.

So, in a nutshell, suck it up.

I can understand people disliking any Trump supporters who were assholes in the past. But I've seen bad faith and good faith criticisms of Biden treated the same manner. Not everyone with these criticisms was a pro-Trump fan acting like an asshole for 4 years. In fact a lot people on here thought Biden in and of himself was a crappy candidate for the Democrats.

WrenBoy

Tell me how wrote: »

With reference to the bolded section, absolutely not, but this type of post, at this time, is deserving to be answered in that way.

Also, as pointed out, Obama/Biden were left trying to extract the US from wars initiated very much by neo-cons in the Republican administration of George Bush.

In terms of Libya, the US's intervention there was to implement a UN Security Council resolution. At the time, it was expected that Gaddafi was engaging in war crimes against civilians during an ongoing civil war. It was far from the case that Gaddafi was sitting pleasantly in Tripoli beloved by his people until the US decided to pick a fight (even though they are capable of doing that, see IRAQ 2 for reference).

Given that you put such effort in to the international conflict policies of the time of the Obama administration, I wonder what your view is of Trumps decision to exit the Iran Nuclear deal, and to carry out provocative actions elsewhere in the middle east through the repositioning of the US embassy in Israel and the show act of a middle east peace deal ignoring Palestine.
Or what about his subservience to Saudi Arabia who killed and butchered a US citizen and journalist? Not to mention his emboldening of Kim Jong-Un and acquiescence to Putin as Russia placed bounties on US soldiers in Afghanistan.

Back to Libya though, and your reference to 4 dead Americans, the Republicans held 6 house committee investigations in to the events surrounding this (there were 4 other investigations) saying that it was owed to the American people to do so. Hillary Clinton (the primary focus of the investigations) answered questions for 8 hours in committee hearings and was largely absolved from wrongdoing.
How many house committee investigations do you think should be held to determine the failings of this administration and specifically the President in relation to the Covid 29 pandemic which has, to this point, killed over 60,000 times more people than died in that event in Libya? Yes, that is 60,000 times more deaths.

You should take off the MAGA hat when asking people to have an open discussion about Biden or the wider Obama administration he was involved in.

The IND wasn't perfect but what deal is, Trump wasn't the only one who didn't like it mainly due to the sunset clauses of 2025 and 2030, fears that once these restrictions expire, Iran could rapidly develop a nuclear weapon. As well as increasing Iran Israel tensions Trump clearly favours Israel as you mentioned his moving the US embassy this added to the already volatile relationship Iran and the US have. Do I agree with him pulling out of the deal, No I think they were on the right path and more could have been done.
Subservience to SA and Russia, because the US doesn't got to war with the world doesn't equate to subservience. SA is a necessary evil to deal with because they and Israel are the only things keeping the Middle East somewhat in check. I think He should have been tougher on SA after that murder 100%. Putin is an ex-KGB Mobster and the sooner hes gone the better but I shudder to think whats waiting in the wings to fill that power vacuum. Again Putin needs to be handled carefully.
"It just has not been proved to a level of certainty that satisfies me," Gen. Frank McKenzie told NBC News. McKenzie oversees U.S. troops in Afghanistan. Cant act on reports without being sure especially if it means going to war with Russia.
Everyone has been trying to make inroads with Un I was actually fairly impressed with him there, at least he opened up a line of communication.

Covid is a worldwide pandemic, terribly handled by Trump and the US, would never deny that. Not sure how its related to Americas War policy though

Tell me how wrote: »

You should take off the MAGA hat when asking people to have an open discussion about Biden or the wider Obama administration he was involved in.

Oops looks like I failed the Purity Test, stay classy.

namloc1980

nolivesmatter wrote: »

So? "but Trump is worse" can't be the answer to every Biden criticism.

But Trump literally is worse!

Anyway there'll be plenty of time to criticise and scrutinise Biden over the next 4 years and unlike the Trump supporters who refuse to criticise him no matter what he does, as someone who wanted Biden to win I would not hesitate to criticise him or his administration's decisions over the 4 years where warranted. I'd be surprised if we see Biden supporters defending him to the last like we have seen and are seeing Trumpists doing for their man.

eagle eye

Boggles wrote:

Fauci's unloading on Trump in January will be spectacular I reckon.

Fauci is a gentleman and will never do that. At most he'll rave about how great it is to work with Biden which will let people know without him pointing the finger.

km991148

Tony EH wrote: »

It might. I doubt it though.

The Republicans will do everything in their power to prevent it too. it wouldn't be in their best interests.

And while 60 mil Americans may have voted for Trump, a huge proportion did so simply because he was the Republican ticket and that's all that matters to that demographic. But they won't be following him to a new political party, that's for sure.

No, I'd say the next step for Trump is setting up his own political propaganda machine. He's seen how easy it is to fool some gobshites by merely saying any old hot air at all, so he's not going to give up that grift. Watch out for a Breitbart type organisation popping up, but with Trump at its helm.

It'll be "independent" :pac: , so therefore reliant on the funds of fools. The same fools who went around chanting "fraud" the last few weeks because the orange man said so.

I know it's unlikely, but do not underestimate a broken ego.. it's not so much about the cash grift (money is more like either a side benefit or a measure of success for Trump).. so even although if he did go independent political party, it would fail for the reasons you mention, but it definitely would prop up that fragile ego..

That would still be dangerous for the republicans.. it won't split them in half, but it would chip away at their recently found base..


I guess we'll need to wait a couple of years to find out what scam he will come to with..