Trump vs Biden 2020, Day 64 of the Pennsylvania count (pt 5) Read OP

eagle eye

ohnonotgmail wrote:

no, the person who holds the event and encourages that behaviour is responsible.

Partially at best.

duploelabs

normakelle wrote: »

There should be a fair and honest election without interference from him whether 2016 or 2020

Except Mitch McConnell directly blocked any resolution to prevent this, funny that

seamus

eagle eye wrote: »

This Trump is a dictator line is awful crap.
Can you please move away from it.

Nobody says he is, but what you're doing is basically saying, "It's not Trump's fault if people take his word over the CDC's".

Of course it is. He is the elected head of the country. Everything he says is official.

This means that he has a obligation to use that power responsibly. If he comes out directly saying that the advice from the CDC is unnecessary, practically saying that the pandemic doesn't really exist and telling people to no worry about it and carry on with their days, then he has to take responsibility for the outcome of that.

If Joe Moron finds himself disabled because he took Trump's advice, then that's Joe's fault. But it's Trump's fault too for putting that advice out there when he knows that he is an authority figure to 73 million Americans. Trump equally takes the blame for the hundreds of thousands of unnecessary deaths resulting from a failure in his Administration to take appropriate actions and put out appropriate messages. And this failure is entirely down to his refusal to do anything.

Other people didn't make bad decisions that went wrong. He wasn't let down by an incompetent team who implemented good plans poorly. Trump made bad decisions and insisted everyone stick to them, firing anyone who strayed from his narrative.

That's why it's his fault.

Trump is directly to blame for the deaths of more Americans than Osama Bin Laden. By miles. And that's not hyperbole.

ohnonotgmail

eagle eye wrote: »

Aa said in my other post, the advice has been out there for months. If you are too stupid or ignorant to follow it then you are to blame for what happens to you.
Trump isn't a doctor or scientist. Go back through all the threads here since covid-19 came to the fore and you'll see many, many posters criticising what Trump said on the subject and that's been going on all around the world and in the media too.
There's no good excuse for attending a really nevermind not wearing masks, washing your hands and maintaining social distance.

but it is not just what happens to the people that attend. it is what happens to the people they come into contact with afterwards. Yes the people that attended are idiots but trump is the bigger idiot for giving them the opportunity to be that stupid.

Kermit.de.frog

Quality journalism retweeted by Trump...

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1329298668403499009


Where to start?...

Padre_Pio

eagle eye wrote: »

As I said the advice has been out there for months. If these people are too stupid to follow good advice then they are responsible for what happens to them.

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

no, the person who holds the event and encourages that behaviour is responsible.

eagle eye wrote: »

Partially at best.

No, completely.

You realise that's the reason shops and pubs are closed, and publicans have been fined for opening?

If MCD had a concert in the 3Arena and there was an outbreak of COVID, who do you think would get the blame?

wes

Trump is President. The buck stops with him. He has blood on his hands in a very real way due to his super spreader rallies.

He also has blood on his hands for his response to the pandemic. Its is a combination of incompetence, cruelty and hatred.

Trump imo needs to spend the rest of this days in prison for every awful thing he has done. If there is no justice for the crimes of the Trump admin, then there will be no healing, and we will get an even worse Trump. We saw this when the crimes of the Bush admin were not punished. Its just emboldens the next guy.

eagle eye

Padre_Pio wrote:

If MCD had a concert in the 3Arena and there was an outbreak of COVID, who do you think would get the blame?

I'd be blaming the idiots that attended first and foremost then the organiser.

eagle eye

Also it's not comparable to pubs. The owner of the pub takes full responsibility because we are dealing with an addiction.

duploelabs

eagle eye wrote: »

I'd be blaming the idiots that attended first and foremost then the organiser.

But if mcd didn't put on the event, then those people wouldn't attend. The buck rests with Trump

eagle eye

duploelabs wrote:

But if mcd didn't put on the event, then those people wouldn't attend. The buck rests with Trump

As I said he's partially to blame at best. Anybody stupid enough to attend is responsible for their own actions.

eagle eye

eagle eye wrote: »

I'd be blaming the idiots that attended first and foremost then the organiser.

I wouldn't, I would blame MCD for assuming it was safe to put on the event.

If an event organiser puts on a free event and publicly states that there would be no limits on the number who can attend, who is to blame if people died from overcrowding? The organiser? Or do you believe the attendees should have realised it would be a bad idea to attend due to possible overcrowding? If you think the latter, how come people have successfully sued organisers for such events in the past?

normakelle

Deleted User wrote: »

So, what is your answer to my question? Should we therefore remove Trump from office right now because you also believe that there was meddling in the election four years ago?

Absolutely if he uses his position to influence people on who to vote for. All anyone want is a fair and transparent election.

eagle eye

Deleted User wrote:

If an event organiser puts on a free event and publicly states that there would be no limits on the number who can attend, who is to blame if people died from overcrowding? The organiser? Or do you believe the attendees should have realised it would be a bad idea to attend due to possible overcrowding? If you think the latter, how come people have successfully sued organisers for such events in the past?

I'd think that every person would be aware of the need to socially distance, wash their hands and wear facemasks. As a result it'd be stupid to attend an event. And if you did attend you can be held fully accountable for contracting covid-19 if you do.

eagle eye

normakelle wrote:

Absolutely if he uses his position to influence people on who to vote for. All anyone want is a fair and transparent election.

What?

normakelle

normakelle wrote: »

Absolutely if he uses his position to influence people on who to vote for. All anyone want is a fair and transparent election.

So should Trump be removed from office right now? Yes or no?

Padre_Pio

Deleted User wrote: »

I wouldn't, I would blame MCD for assuming it was safe to put on the event.

If an event organiser puts on a free event and publicly states that there would be no limits on the number who can attend, who is to blame if people died from overcrowding? The organiser? Or do you believe the attendees should have realised it would be a bad idea to attend due to possible overcrowding? If you think the latter, how come people have successfully sued organisers for such events in the past?

Exactly. In the same way an employer is responsible for the safety of employees, a school is responsible for the safety of it's students, a farmer is responsible for the safety of anyone on their farm, a venue or business is responsible for the safety of it's customers, Trump and his team are responsible for the safety of attendees.

eagle eye wrote: »

I'd think that every person would be aware of the need to socially distance, wash their hands and wear facemasks. As a result it'd be stupid to attend an event. And if you did attend you can be held fully accountable for contracting covid-19 if you do.

When you look at the layout of the venue, is it set up for social distancing? Carson City in September BTW

eagle eye

eagle eye wrote: »

I'd think that every person would be aware of the need to socially distance, wash their hands and wear facemasks. As a result it'd be stupid to attend an event. And if you did attend you can be held fully accountable for contracting covid-19 if you do.

But in my example, everyone is also aware of the dangerous of overcrowding, and we even have examples of what can go wrong, e.g. Hillsborough. So what's the difference?

normakelle

Leroy42 wrote: »

That all sounds great, but falls apart when there are no supports for staying home. When employers are free to demand workers continue to work, don't have to provide PPE etc.

When landlords are free to evict for non payment of rent. Peer pressure means many people feel they are treated as libtards and anti Trump for wearing a mask.

When governors are slow to act in case they displease Trump, so delay putting in place measures that could save lives.

All that comes from the tone and action of Trump. He effectively called out anyone that disagreed with his view that it was nothing to worry about. Calling Biden out for trying to protect himself and those around him.

Each adult got 1,200 dollars each child got 500 dollars regardless of whether they worked or not. There was a pandemic unemployement payment which people got up to about a month six weeks ago now they get just ordinary unemployment because both sides are arguing about passing the next stimulus package and hopefully that will be back dated to help people out

normakelle

Deleted User wrote: »

So, you lied then?

No I did not lie. If the governor of your state has a mask mandate then you have to wear one. Each governor dictates this as well you know. Each state is like a country in europe with its governor making decisions

normakelle

normakelle wrote: »

No I did not lie. If the governor of your state has a mask mandate then you have to wear one.

And as my link showed, each state does not have a mask mandate. So you lied.

eagle eye

Padre_Pio wrote:

When you look at the layout of the venue, is it set up for social distancing? Carson City in September BTW

As I said, personal responsibility.

eagle eye

Deleted User wrote:

But in my example, everyone is also aware of the dangerous of overcrowding, and we even have examples of what can go wrong, e.g. Hillsborough. So what's the difference?

We are talk ng about covid-19 here.

eagle eye

eagle eye wrote: »

We are talk ng about covid-19 here.

You know that I'm aware of it. I'm demonstrating that you logic doesn't make sense with an example.

Timberrrrrrrr

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

no, you can blame him for that. he held the rallies. he didnt insist that people wore masks and socially distance while at the rallies. his rallies were directly responsible for 700 deaths.

Trumps staff removed stickers from chairs that encouraged social distancing

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/thehill.com/homenews/campaign/504884-video-shows-workers-removed-thousands-of-social-distancing-signs-before%3famp

Carfacemandog

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

ronald reagan would have not have sat with his thumb up his ass while 1700 people die every day.

Are you familiar with the aids crisis under Reagan and his role in it?

This isn't any kind of defense of Trump by the way. People often forget or didn't notice, but Reagan (in hindsight at least) was fecking awful and a lot of the problems with American politics/culture can be traced right back to him.

Never mind, Jill valentine beat me to it.

normakelle

[Deleted User] wrote: »

And as my link showed, each state does not have a mask mandate. So you lied.

Why are you calling me a liar. I have stated if the governor of your state has a mask mandate you have to wear a mask. You really are a nit picker. I would imagine everything in your life is black and white no grey areas. You are probably the word police pulling up people that are not PC correct. You are a child with I reported you as if I care. I don't live my life on here like you lol

robinph

eagle eye wrote: »

I'd be blaming the idiots that attended first and foremost then the organiser.

So the idiots that attended have been told by the organiser for the last 4 years not to believe anything that the media tells them, only to believe the word of the organiser.
Everyone but the organiser is lying to you.
Everyone but the organiser is cheating the system.
For the last 8 months the organiser has been telling you that there is no virus.
For the last 8 months the organiser has been telling you that masks are not important.
For the last 8 months the organiser has been firing (or insulting on social media) people in the departments tasked with ensuring the health of the nation who disagree with the organiser.

Then the organiser holds a party and invites you along, and they tell you that social distancing isn't needed and there is no need to wear masks.

Who is responsible for the lack of social distancing and mask wearing again? The organiser, or the people who were listening to what the organiser has been saying for the last 4 years/ 8 months.





Incase you weren't sure, Trump is "the organiser".

hirondelle

normakelle wrote: »

Hyperbole much?

Drunkmonkey claimed Biden was acting like a dictator (when he meant to say that Biden was asking people to wear masks etc.). I was asking Drunk Monkey to define this dictatorship in terms of what force Biden the Dictator has.

It is very important not to cast the word "dictator" around lightly, don't you think?

Timberrrrrrrr

normakelle wrote: »

No I did not lie. If the governor of your state has a mask mandate then you have to wear one. Each governor dictates this as well you know. Each state is like a country in europe with its governor making decisions

And then when they do say wesr a mask and announce a lockdown the idiot in chief tweets LIBERATE (insert syate)