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Trump vs Biden 2020, Day 64 of the Pennsylvania count (pt 5) Read OP

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    #7322
    hotmail.com
    Registered Users Posts: 13,489 ✭✭✭✭hotmail.com


    Carfacemandog wrote: »
    Are you familiar with the aids crisis under Reagan and his role in it?

    This isn't any kind of defense of Trump by the way. People often forget or didn't notice, but Reagan (in hindsight at least) was fecking awful and a lot of the problems with American politics/culture can be traced right back to him.

    Never mind, Jill valentine beat me to it.

    A lot of people only took an interest in US politics in 2016 and think America was grand up til then.


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    #7323
    eagle eye
    Registered Users Posts: 38,582 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    Deleted User wrote:
    You know that I'm aware of it. I'm demonstrating that you logic doesn't make sense with an example.

    You are talking about other factors not part of covid-19. That doesn't make any sense.
    Next thing you'll be blaming the guy organising an event for somebody dying in a car crash on their way to the event who didn't wear their seat belt.
    And if you aren't blamin the organiser for that then you shouldn't be blaming him for people not doing the smart thing and staying away.
    You know like in both instances personal responsibility is the reason they ended up where they did.


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    #7324
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,470 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    eagle eye wrote: »
    You are talking about other factors not part of covid-19. That doesn't make any sense.
    Next thing you'll be blaming the guy organising an event for somebody dying in a car crash on their way to the event who didn't wear their seat belt.
    And if you aren't blaming ng the organiser for that then you should be blaming him for people not doing the smart thing and staying away.

    somebody dying in a car crash on the way to an event is not something the organiser can control. not mandating masks and removing social distancing measures is something they can control and something they are responsible for.


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    #7325
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 56,428 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    Carfacemandog wrote: »
    Are you familiar with the aids crisis under Reagan and his role in it?

    This isn't any kind of defense of Trump by the way. People often forget or didn't notice, but Reagan (in hindsight at least) was fecking awful and a lot of the problems with American politics/culture can be traced right back to him.

    Never mind, Jill valentine beat me to it.

    We can pick apart any U.S. President and claim that they did this, that or the other wrong....

    None are remotely comparable to the horror of a man that Trump is

    People need to strip this back to the human level here...

    Trump is a horrible person. He behaves like such. A truly vindictive and spiteful and nasty type man; at least this is the way he has conducted his presidency.

    Unrivaled here. Unmatched here. Unparalleled here. Out on his own.


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    #7326
    eagle eye
    Registered Users Posts: 38,582 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    ohnonotgmail wrote:
    somebody dying in a car crash on the way to an event is not something the organiser can control. not mandating masks and removing social distancing measures is something they can control and something they are responsible for.

    The core issue is they died because they didn't wear their seat belt.
    If you go somewhere and don't do the thing that keeps you safe then you are responsible for your actions.
    Partial responsibility for organising the event but not responsible for the stupidity of the people who decided to attend.


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    #7327
    robinph
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,099 Mod ✭✭✭✭robinph


    eagle eye wrote: »
    The core issue is they died because they didn't wear their seat belt.
    If you go somewhere and don't do the thing that keeps you safe then you are responsible for your actions.
    Partial responsibility for organising the event but not responsible for the stupidity of the people who decided to attend.

    But the people were going to an anti seat belt rally being held by the leader of their country who has been telling them for months that car crashes don't happen and it's all a conspiracy by the Chinese and people who wear seat belts are weak and anti American.


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    #7328
    Professor Moriarty
    Registered Users Posts: 14,375 ✭✭✭✭Professor Moriarty


    robinph wrote: »
    But the people were going to an anti seat belt rally being held by the leader of their country who has been telling them for months that car crashes don't happen and it's all a conspiracy by the Chinese and people who wear seat belts are weak and anti American.

    And that leader didn't wear his seat belt and he had a car crash.


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    #7329
    astrofool
    Registered Users Posts: 16,731 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    eagle eye wrote: »
    You are talking about other factors not part of covid-19. That doesn't make any sense.
    Next thing you'll be blaming the guy organising an event for somebody dying in a car crash on their way to the event who didn't wear their seat belt.
    And if you aren't blamin the organiser for that then you shouldn't be blaming him for people not doing the smart thing and staying away.
    You know like in both instances personal responsibility is the reason they ended up where they did.

    If there was a snowstorm or hurricane occurring and the event encouraged people to drive through the snow/hurricane to get there, then the event organisers would incur blame for any accidents that happened, and would probably be sued to that effect.


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    #7330
    Padre_Pio
    Registered Users Posts: 5,226 ✭✭✭Padre_Pio


    eagle eye wrote: »
    The core issue is they died because they didn't wear their seat belt.
    If you go somewhere and don't do the thing that keeps you safe then you are responsible for your actions.
    Partial responsibility for organising the event but not responsible for the stupidity of the people who decided to attend.

    That's not the way the world works I'm afraid. There is always a duty of care.

    If people thought the way you did, then lockdowns would not exist. The government would just publish lockdown guidelines and hope that all the people take a personal responsibility and adhere to them.
    As we all well know, that's not the case, hence, we have enforced lockdowns.

    People by and large, act in their own self interest and have no concept or care for the situations of others. Tragedy of the Commons etc.


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    #7331
    eagle eye
    Registered Users Posts: 38,582 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    astrofool wrote:
    If there was a snowstorm or hurricane occurring and the event encouraged people to drive through the snow/hurricane to get there, then the event organisers would incur blame for any accidents that happened, and would probably be sued to that effect.

    Lol.


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    #7332
    everlast75
    Registered Users Posts: 19,815 ✭✭✭✭everlast75


    eagle eye wrote: »
    As I said, personal responsibility.
    eagle eye wrote: »
    The core issue is they died because they didn't wear their seat belt.
    If you go somewhere and don't do the thing that keeps you safe then you are responsible for your actions.
    Partial responsibility for organising the event but not responsible for the stupidity of the people who decided to attend.


    You need to understand the amount of people that get their "news" from Fox, Facebook and Twitter. They exist in a bubble, an echo chamber and don't see what the rest of us do.

    The Sinclair Broadcasting Company is everywhere. Watch this and then tell me that it is purely the fault of those that don't know better


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GvtNyOzGogc&t=0s&index=19&list=PLjdfbL5LrCRh-bO-kG92f6L02mgJ3wuzS


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    #7333
    eagle eye
    Registered Users Posts: 38,582 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    Padre_Pio wrote:
    That's not the way the world works I'm afraid. There is always a duty of care.
    If people thought the way you did, then lockdowns would not exist.
    We have lockdowns because we have so many idiots that they'd overrun the health system.


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    #7334
    Padre_Pio
    Registered Users Posts: 5,226 ✭✭✭Padre_Pio


    eagle eye wrote: »
    We have lockdowns because we have so many idiots that they'd overrun the health system.
    Hence why we have enforced lockdown. If we didn't and the health system was overwhelmed, who would you blame? the people or the government?


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    #7335
    Kermit.de.frog
    Registered Users Posts: 23,764 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1329408856733184008

    Meanwhile...

    https://twitter.com/GeraldKutney/status/1329251179512160257


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    #7336
    eagle eye
    Registered Users Posts: 38,582 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    everlast75 wrote:
    You need to understand the amount of people that get their "news" from Fox, Facebook and Twitter. They exist in a bubble, an echo chamber and don't see what the rest of us do.
    I'm not going to click on that link.
    It's all over facebook and twitter about how to stay safe, you can't avoid it.

    As for Fox, only time I watch it is for college football.


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    #7337
    duploelabs
    Registered Users Posts: 11,454 ✭✭✭✭duploelabs


    eagle eye wrote: »
    I'm not going to click on that link.
    It's all over facebook and twitter about how to stay safe, you can't avoid it.

    As for Fox, only time I watch it is for college football.

    It's all over _your_ Facebook and twitter, that feed is unique to you because of your choices and cookies. Doesn't apply to everyone's feed


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    #7338
    eagle eye
    Registered Users Posts: 38,582 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    Padre_Pio wrote:
    So where's this personal responsibility you think all people should have?
    Just because they are idiots doesn't mean they are not personally responsible for themselves.
    If they are too stupid to abide by good practice then they deserve everything they get.


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    #7339
    robinph
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,099 Mod ✭✭✭✭robinph


    eagle eye wrote: »
    We have lockdowns because we have so many idiots that they'd overrun the health system.

    But surely if everyone just socially distanced and wore masks and washed their hands and didn't visit family there wouldn't be any problem. I mean all the information is out there, why won't the population take notice?

    Or does the government have a responsibility to take actions that protect the population? Can they not just tell us all to try our best not to pass on the virus and hope for the best?


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    #7340
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    normakelle wrote: »
    Why are you calling me a liar. I have stated if the governor of your state has a mask mandate you have to wear a mask. You really are a nit picker. I would imagine everything in your life is black and white no grey areas. You are probably the word police pulling up people that are not PC correct. You are a child with I reported you as if I care. I don't live my life on here like you lol

    You have stated this
    normakelle wrote: »
    They have to wear masks in schools, supermarkets, gyms etc the same as here

    which, according to this, is a lie. Nothing nitpicky about it.


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    #7341
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    eagle eye wrote: »
    You are talking about other factors not part of covid-19. That doesn't make any sense.

    It makes perfect sense. In my example, who would be to blame in your opinion if someone died due to overcrowding? The organiser, the attendee, or both?

    From what I gather, you would believe it would be both, whereas the people who have responded to you would say it's only the organiser. Would that be a fair assessment?


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    #7342
    eagle eye
    Registered Users Posts: 38,582 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    I'm growing tired of this stupid stuff.

    Trump is a horrible human being and responsible for an awful lot of bad things that have happened and he certainly bears a partial responsibility for organising the rallies.
    The lot of you though just want to put full responsibility for everything on him. It's an unnatural hate you have. I despise the man but I can step back and take a breath and see the wood from the trees.

    If you cannot assign blame to people for risking their and others lives by attending an event with no masks or social distancing then I give up on you.


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    #7343
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,917 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    normakelle wrote: »
    thank god someone with a bit of commonsense

    Haha!


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    #7344
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    eagle eye wrote: »
    I'm growing tired of this stupid stuff.

    Trump is a horrible human being and responsible for an awful lot of bad things that have happened and he certainly beats a partial responsibility for organising the rallies.
    The lot of you though just want to put full responsibility for everything on him. It's an unnatural hate you have. I despise the man but I can step back and take a breath and see the wood from the trees.

    If you cannot assign blame to people for risking their and others lives by attending an event with no masks or social distancing then I give up on you.

    I'll take that as a "the argument made by you and others is starting to make sense to me, but I don't want to admit it, so I'll instead whine rather than come up with a constructive reply" response.


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    #7345
    eagle eye
    Registered Users Posts: 38,582 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    Deleted User wrote:
    I'll take as a "the argument made by you and others makes sense, but I don't want to admit it, so I'll instead whine" response.
    Maybe I'll just ignore you from now on. Like this presumption you make is ridiculous.
    Don't expect another response from me.


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    #7346
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,917 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    normakelle wrote: »
    He shouldn't get involved in any election. If you want to vote you don't need mark zuccherberg to help you

    Appears that you do when trump and the republicans are doing their best to stop people from voting and possibly getting sick by doing so under their plan.

    Doesn't take much to understand that.


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    #7347
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    eagle eye wrote: »
    Maybe I'll just ignore you from now on. Like this presumption you make is ridiculous.
    Don't expect another response from me.

    If the only responses you can come up with to my example is "but we're talking about Covid" and "I'll just ignore you instead of answering your questions", then you should probably start considering that you yourself believe that there is a flaw in your argument.


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    #7348
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,917 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    normakelle wrote: »
    Follow the money or is that too much trouble for you

    You keep saying this but won't post any evidence supporting your claim for some reason.


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    #7349
    robinph
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,099 Mod ✭✭✭✭robinph


    eagle eye wrote: »
    I'm growing tired of this stupid stuff.

    Trump is a horrible human being and responsible for an awful lot of bad things that have happened and he certainly bears a partial responsibility for organising the rallies.
    The lot of you though just want to put full responsibility for everything on him. It's an unnatural hate you have. I despise the man but I can step back and take a breath and see the wood from the trees.

    If you cannot assign blame to people for risking their and others lives by attending an event with no masks or social distancing then I give up on you.

    The head of your government tells you not to wear masks and don't believe anything in the media that disagrees with me.

    You then choose not to wear a mask and choose to not believe the articles in the media telling you that you really should wear a mask.

    Who is at fault there for people not wearing masks?


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    #7350
    eagle eye
    Registered Users Posts: 38,582 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    robinph wrote:
    Who is at fault there for people not wearing masks?
    The people themselves and the idiot telling them nit to wear a mask. Both.


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    #7351
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,917 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    eagle eye wrote: »
    Also it's not comparable to pubs. The owner of the pub takes full responsibility because we are dealing with an addiction.

    Silly argument, you are claiming that anyone who goes to a pub has addiction issues.

    Buck stops with trump.


This discussion has been closed.
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