Trump vs Biden 2020, Day 64 of the Pennsylvania count (pt 5) Read OP

ExMachina1000

Tony EH wrote: »

Again, I'll make this point.

A large portion of that 70 odd million DIDN'T vote for Trump. They voted for the Republican Party and it wouldn't have mattered who that party had used as their ticket, they would have voted for them anyway.

There are millions of Americans who held their noses and put an X beside Trump's name simply because they have always voted Rep in elections. There are many who think he's an insufferable arsehole, but their primary concern is simply keeping a Democrat out of the Whitehouse.

This is the reality of US politics and the Democrats are never going to win them over anyway.

As for the die hard Trump cultists, they are a firm minority of the American voting public. MAGA hat wearing imbeciles who are incapable understanding the con that was perpetrated on them and who are more besotted by personality (even an abrasive one) than they are about actual policy.

There may be a number of floating voters to poach, but I doubt that the Dems will put too much effort into trying to get them onside. But that depends on what the Republican Party do over the next 4 years and they have an uphill struggle, that's for sure. Trump may take a few million of the more idiotic Republican voters with him, if he decides to form his own Gibberish Party. So, as it stands at the moment, I think it's the Republicans who need to be thinking about winning back Trump voters and not the Democrats, who'll never appeal to them.

A large portion of the 80 million didn't vote for Biden. They voted to get rid of Trump. Biden is unlikeable and bland

campo

bewareofthedog wrote: »

I couldn't care less what you think either.

Not everything is black and white, I don't believe Flynn purposely lied. I believe he was caught in a technicality and unfairly treated.

If you believe that warrants prosecution of an individual then so be it. If he truly had something to hide then why attend with no lawyer?

This is not a personal dig but what is it about Trumpers and they thinking believing in something trumps actual facts of the matter.

uncleoswald

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

A large portion of the 80 million didn't vote for Biden. They voted to get rid of Trump. Biden is unlikeable and bland

Huh? Likeability is probably Biden's main strength. He was one of the most popular vice-presidents ever and while I'm sure partisanship has eaten away at his likeability somewhat it remained important in this election and was a large part of why he was able to win back many of the states lost in 2016. https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/522830-the-secret-to-bidens-lead-people-find-him-likable

Even Kayleigh McEnany agreed before she drank the MAGA Kool-Aid.

"I think the Republicans run into a problem if it is Joe Biden and if it is maybe a Trump on the other side," McEnany said on local New York's AM970. "Because Joe Biden, one of the things he is remarkable at is really kind of being a man of the people and resonating with middle class voters. Feeling like -- coming off as human. His gaffes -- as much as we make fun of them -- to a certain extent they make him look human. So not, since he's likable."

https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/26/politics/kayleigh-mcenany-biden-2015/index.html

Dislike of Trump was a huge factor in this election, and I'm sure many would have preferred a different candidate to Biden, but the majority wouldn't have held their noses when voting for him either.

Cody montana

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

A large portion of the 80 million didn't vote for Biden. They voted to get rid of Trump. Biden is unlikeable and bland

And what's the problem?

everlast75

Cody montana wrote: »

And what's the problem?

When Joe stands in front of the U.N., he won't be laughed at.

Apparently, people prefer when the POTUS *is* laughed at

ExMachina1000

uncleoswald wrote: »

Huh? Likeability is probably Biden's main strength. He was one of the most popular vice-presidents ever and while I'm sure partisanship has eaten away at his likeability somewhat it remained important in this election and was a large part of why he was able to win back many of the states lost in 2016. https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/522830-the-secret-to-bidens-lead-people-find-him-likable

Even Kayleigh McEnany agreed before she drank the MAGA Kool-Aid. https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/26/politics/kayleigh-mcenany-biden-2015/index.html

Dislike of Trump was a huge factor in this election, and I'm sure many would have preferred a different candidate to Biden, but the majority wouldn't have held their noses when voting for him either.

Dislike of Biden was a huge factor in this election. Those on the fence just disliked Trump more.
It was basically a decision of who you disliked less.
Roll on January

Samsonsmasher

briany wrote: »

The thing is is that Rudy and the boys are great at talking smack in their extra-judicial press conferences and hearings, but when it actually goes to court it's just.... womp womp womp.

And the obvious tactic is to de-emphasise the situations as much as possible where is actual jeopardy and consequences to what they're saying, and put on these shows for the usual propaganda outlets to run with. Nice.

The legislatures can reject the elections in their states if they believe them to be fraudulent. The college votes can therefore be denied to Biden. If he doesn't reach 270 votes then under the 12th Amendment each state gets 1 vote. The majority of the states are Republican so Trump would win.

Cody montana

everlast75 wrote: »

When Joe stands in front of the U.N., he won't be laughed at.

Apparently, people prefer when the POTUS *is* laughed at

Or booed at during sports events.

Cody montana

Samsonsmasher wrote: »

The legislatures can reject the elections in their states if they believe them to be fraudulent. The college votes can therefore be denied to Biden. If he doesn't reach 270 votes then under the 12th Amendment each state gets 1 vote. The majority of the states are Republican so Trump would win.

So you expect this case to win on friday?

Samsonsmasher

Cody montana wrote: »

So you expect this case to win on friday?

Nothing has to be proven in court. The legislatures just have to decide they believe there was fraud. They can refuse to accept the validity of the national vote and toss it.

nolivesmatter

everlast75 wrote: »

My logic is the dog in the street knows it's a crime to lie to the FBI.

Flynn knew it was a crime.

He did it anyway.

Then he pled guilty to it.

Then he pled guilty to it again.

Whether the fact that lying to the FBI is a crime is fair or not is another discussion.

He is a self confessed criminal.

Accepting a pardon means he is accepting he is guilty for a 3rd time.

The situation here is that he is lied for Trump and he is being rewarded.

That means feck all, even if he's innocent he's taking the pardon.

uncleoswald

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

Dislike of Biden was a huge factor in this election. Those on the fence just disliked Trump more.
It was basically a decision of who you disliked less.
Roll on January

You seem to be bringing a lot of your own feelings to this and maybe mixing up a lack of enthusiasm for un-likeability. Enthusiasm for Biden might not be very high because of his age and lack of real progressive ideas, but people like him because to them he seems like a decent, if sometimes muddled, granddad/uncle type figure.

Where do you get the idea people actively dislike Biden?

prinzeugen

Samsonsmasher wrote: »

The legislatures can reject the elections in their states if they believe them to be fraudulent. The college votes can therefore be denied to Biden. If he doesn't reach 270 votes then under the 12th Amendment each state gets 1 vote. The majority of the states are Republican so Trump would win.

They need proof however, something which is lacking.
The Rudy show today was a joke.
None of the testimony was under oath and penalty of perjury.
It has as much value as evidence as a cheese cracker.
The one state, one vote thing only applies when neither candidate gets 270.
Trump has no chance.

Tony EH

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

A large portion of the 80 million didn't vote for Biden. They voted to get rid of Trump. Biden is unlikeable and bland

He wiped the floor with Trump.

Not bad for someone who's "unlikeable" and "bland".

prinzeugen

Samsonsmasher wrote: »

Nothing has to be proven in court. The legislatures just have to decide they believe there was fraud. They can refuse to accept the validity of the national vote and toss it.

Nope.. That's just parler fan fiction.

nolivesmatter

uncleoswald wrote: »

You seem to be bringing a lot of your own feelings to this and maybe mixing up a lack of enthusiasm for un-likeability. Enthusiasm for Biden might not be very high because of his age and lack of real progressive ideas, but people like him because to them he seems like a decent, if sometimes muddled, granddad/uncle type figure.

Where do you get the idea people actively dislike Biden?

The general sentiment I got from people before the election was that Biden's best attribute was that he's not Trump. Maybe that's not active dislike but I never got the sense he was actively liked either.

namloc1980

Samsonsmasher wrote: »

Nothing has to be proven in court. The legislatures just have to decide they believe there was fraud. They can refuse to accept the validity of the national vote and toss it.

This is wrong. I think you've been reading too many incorrect tweets. The executive of the states i.e. the governors, sign and seal the certificates of appointment of the electoral college electors for that state who are appointed in accordance with the law. Now in theory the legislature of a state "could" send forward their own slate of electors as well. However if two sets of electors (one appointed by the governor in line with the law and the other from a rogue legislature) are appointed and send their votes to Congress to be counted, under the Electoral Count Act, where there is a dispute, it is the votes from the electors appointed by the governor that would be counted.

BorneTobyWilde

If what is claimed is true then it's a case of Democrats thinking they are doing what is right to remove Trump at any cost. Like they are doing a service to the US to magically come up with 800k ballots when needed to beat Trump.

namloc1980

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

If what is claimed is true then it's a case of Democrats thinking they are doing what is right to remove Trump at any cost. Like they are doing a service to the US to magically come up with 800k ballots when needed to beat Trump.

Counting votes is not magic. Don't be so gullible to swallow Rudy's nonsense. That man has absolutely zero credibility.

BorneTobyWilde

namloc1980 wrote: »

Counting votes is not magic. Don't be so gullible to swallow Rudy's nonsense. That man has absolutely zero credibility.

WHen you hear things like Rudi said , not sure of numbers, but it was something like '' 30,000 ballots came back the day they were posted, 25000 ballots came back day after they were posted, and 40,000 ballots came back a day before they were posted unless Doc Brown is involved I don't see how this could happen.

namloc1980

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

WHen you hear things like Rudi said , not sure of numbers, but it was something like '' 30,000 ballots came back the day they were posted, 25000 ballots came back day after they were posted, and 40,000 ballots came back a day before they were posted unless Doc Brown is involved I don't see how this could happen.

Because it didn't happen. Rudy has been making wild and unsubstantiated claims since the election without a shred of evidence or proof. You seem to believe what he's saying which is unfortunate because he's a complete spoofer. In court he doesn't claim fraud at all, but in public he claims this massive conspiracy and some people believe him without question.

Zak Flaps

Why is pardoning allowed? Can you pardon anyone you want or as many as you want?

VinLieger

Zak Flaps wrote: »

Why is pardoning allowed? Can you pardon anyone you want or as many as you want?

Yep you can pardon anyone and as many people as you want.

Also being pardonned comes with a tacit admission of guilt, say you were found guilty of a crime you plead not guilty to, accepting a pardon is admitting you were actually guilty. The best example of this is joe arpaio who found this out on live air

However you can only pardon federal crimes, which is why even if trump does somehow pardon himself or get pence to do it hes still acrewed as the SDNY is coming at him hard with a lot of state level stuff.

jill_valentine

Samsonsmasher wrote: »

The legislatures can reject the elections in their states if they believe them to be fraudulent. The college votes can therefore be denied to Biden. If he doesn't reach 270 votes then under the 12th Amendment each state gets 1 vote. The majority of the states are Republican so Trump would win.

This is not true and whoever told you that lied to you, and knew they were lying to you - something to remember next time they want to lie to you again.

It's made quite clear under the Amendment you quote -

The Twelfth Amendment wrote:

The person having the greatest number of votes for President, shall be the President

270 is only the threshold if every electoral vote is cast. The strict requirement though is only "the greatest number".

If, for some reason, red states wanted to withhold their electoral votes, and if somehow they did, Biden would still be President based on the plurality of the remaining votes.

Boggles

everlast75 wrote: »

When Joe stands in front of the U.N., he won't be laughed at.

Apparently, people prefer when the POTUS *is* laughed at

Or NATO.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iimj0j4NYME

Sums him up in 30 seconds.

ArmaniJeanss

jill_valentine wrote: »

This is not true and whoever told you that lied to you, and knew they were lying to you - something to remember next time they want to lie to you again.

It's made quite clear under the Amendment you quote -



270 is only the threshold if every electoral vote is cast. The strict requirement though is only "the greatest number".

If, for some reason, red states wanted to withhold their electoral votes, and if somehow they did, Biden would still be President based on the plurality of the remaining votes.

I don't think it matters at this stage, but I reckon you are wrong about this. The winners need 270, not just the most votes.

You left out the key clause in the 12th.

The person having the greatest number of votes for President, shall be the President, if such number be a majority of the whole number of Electors appointed; and if no person have such majority...………..

So if appointed electors of which there are obviously 538, don't vote for any reason - then the 270 target still applies. Because they were 'appointed' electors.

ohnonotgmail

Samsonsmasher wrote: »

Nothing has to be proven in court. The legislatures just have to decide they believe there was fraud. They can refuse to accept the validity of the national vote and toss it.

The result in PA has already been certified and the electors chosen.

ohnonotgmail

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

WHen you hear things like Rudi said , not sure of numbers, but it was something like '' 30,000 ballots came back the day they were posted, 25000 ballots came back day after they were posted, and 40,000 ballots came back a day before they were posted unless Doc Brown is involved I don't see how this could happen.

Rudy has provided no evidence of what he claims. if he has evidence he would be winning in court. In fact Rudy has told judges he is not claiming there was fraud. He did this because the repercussions of lying to a judge are much more severe than lying in a press conference

Seanachai

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

The result in PA has already been certified and the electors chosen.

It looks like it's been held back,

https://www.scribd.com/document/485797248/620-MD-2020-Order-Nov-25?fbclid=IwAR3lGGrWR-RtFBi8eghMdAq3aJhE6yWDu4YCda0sgxDCxgIyi9KX_TMfsqE

ohnonotgmail

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

I don't think it matters at this stage, but I reckon you are wrong about this. The winners need 270, not just the most votes.

You left out the key clause in the 12th.

So if appointed electors of which there are obviously 538, don't vote for any reason - then the 270 target still applies. Because they were 'appointed' electors.

The PA governor has already appointed their electors.