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Trump vs Biden 2020, Day 64 of the Pennsylvania count (pt 5) Read OP

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    #9032
    silverharp
    Registered Users Posts: 18,483 ✭✭✭✭silverharp


    Leroy42 wrote: »
    You are misreading it. They are saying that he needs to pardon himself to avoid the witchhunts and endless investigations. Just like the Russia hoax, where despite being completely innocent, Trump was harangued for 4 years simply because the Dems wanted revenge for HC losing the election.

    thats about the height of it, Technically Im not sure he can pardon himself, again a suggestion here is that resigns a day or 2 before the end of his term and makes Pence President and he gives Trump a pardon, that would be hilarious :pac:

    I think we can agree whatever happens it will be interesting

    A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer



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    #9033
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,466 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    Mitch Connor wrote: »
    you can't pardon without a crime to be accused and *admit* to. If Trump Pardons himself it is an admission of guilt - and surely it can't be allowed for someone to both admit to a crime and absolve themselves of it.

    there is no need for a specific crime for a pardon. this is the pardon that Ford gave to Nixon. It pardons for any and all crimes committed while Nixon was president.
    Now, THEREFORE, I, GERALD R. FORD, President of the United States, pursuant to the pardon power conferred upon me by Article II, Section 2, of the Constitution, have granted and by these presents do grant a full, free, and absolute pardon unto Richard Nixon for all offenses against the United States which he, Richard Nixon, has committed or may have committed or taken part in during the period from January 20, 1969 through August 9, 1974.


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    #9034
    silverharp
    Registered Users Posts: 18,483 ✭✭✭✭silverharp


    Mitch Connor wrote: »
    you can't pardon without a crime to be accused and *admit* to. If Trump Pardons himself it is an admission of guilt - and surely it can't be allowed for someone to both admit to a crime and absolve themselves of it.

    I gather blanket pardons can be done but have to be time limited, I gather Nixon was given a blanket pardon on the basis of "may have done" , they didnt have to be specified

    A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer



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    #9035
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,466 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    silverharp wrote: »
    thats about the height of it, Technically Im not sure he can pardon himself, again a suggestion here is that resigns a day or 2 before the end of his term and makes Pence President and he gives Trump a pardon, that would be hilarious :pac:

    I think we can agree whatever happens it will be interesting

    Even if that does happen there is still all the state crimes he will have to answer for. The pardon also wont affect anything in regard to any taxes that the IRS decide he owes.


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    #9036
    km991148
    Registered Users Posts: 4,277 ✭✭✭km991148


    Is it true that the people he pardons can no longer withhold testimony in any future crimes against Trump?
    i.e. they won't be able to use the 5th amendment?


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    #9037
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,466 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    km991148 wrote: »
    Is it true that the people he pardons can no longer withhold testimony in any future crimes against Trump?
    i.e. they won't be able to use the 5th amendment?

    that is correct. he would lose the protection of the 5th amendment in relation to any crimes he is pardoned for. If he pardons himself he needs to pardon ALL of his co-conspirators.

    It also makes the Flynn pardon interesting. Flynn is now obliged to answer any questions put to him regarding the special counsels investigation. If he refuses to answer he can be jailed for contempt


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    #9038
    silverharp
    Registered Users Posts: 18,483 ✭✭✭✭silverharp


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    Even if that does happen there is still all the state crimes he will have to answer for. The pardon also wont affect anything in regard to any taxes that the IRS decide he owes.

    It isnt a tax evasion case, just a run of the mill tax case, normal commercial stuff

    A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer



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    #9039
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,466 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    silverharp wrote: »
    It isnt a tax evasion case, just a run of the mill tax case, normal commercial stuff

    making false declarations to the IRS is an offense. depending on how broad the pardon is he may be ok for the criminal part of that offense but not any fines and interest that the IRS apply


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    #9040
    everlast75
    Registered Users Posts: 19,800 ✭✭✭✭everlast75


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    that is correct. he would lose the protection of the 5th amendment in relation to any crimes he is pardoned for. If he pardons himself he needs to pardon ALL of his co-conspirators.

    It also makes the Flynn pardon interesting. Flynn is now obliged to answer any questions put to him regarding the special counsels investigation. If he refuses to answer he can be jailed for contempt

    AFAIK, all crimes for which flynn was pardoned were Mueller related.

    However, Mueller was prohibited from investigating certain red line issues, so I would imagine any future AG can go after Flynn for crimes not investigated, should any exist.


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    #9041
    silverharp
    Registered Users Posts: 18,483 ✭✭✭✭silverharp


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    making false declarations to the IRS is an offense. depending on how broad the pardon is he may be ok for the criminal part of that offense but not any fines and interest that the IRS apply

    as I understand it , its what you pay accountants to do, stretch or reinterpret tax rules and then fight it out with the IRS if you have too. I dont understand it to be tax fraud case which would be straight forward lying on a tax return, something like that wouldnt take years to figure out.

    A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer



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    #9042
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,466 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    silverharp wrote: »
    as I understand it , its what you pay accountants to do, stretch or reinterpret tax rules and then fight it out with the IRS if you have too. I dont understand it to be tax fraud case which would be straight forward lying on a tax return, something like that wouldnt take years to figure out.

    making false declarations is fraud. In trumps case $72M worth from his 2010 tax returns.


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    #9043
    silverharp
    Registered Users Posts: 18,483 ✭✭✭✭silverharp


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    making false declarations is fraud. In trumps case $72M worth from his 2010 tax returns.

    Im sure it would be, but taking advantage of a tax rule that the IRS subsequently decides cant be used isnt "making a false declaration" . Its far too boring to interest me beyond that, Ill stick with the view, it could cost him 27m if he loses for sure, not my problem, I dont care if he wins or loses it

    A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer



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    #9044
    Quin_Dub
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 15,619 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    silverharp wrote: »
    Im sure it would be, but taking advantage of a tax rule that the IRS subsequently decides cant be used isnt "making a false declaration" . Its far too boring to interest me beyond that, Ill stick with the view, it could cost him 27m if he loses for sure, not my problem, I dont care if he wins or loses it

    It is if you use different valuations depending on who you are dealing with , which is part of what Trump is accused of.

    He'd claim that a property was worth next to nothing or had lost huge value in recent years if he was talking to the IRS.

    But for the exact same property at the exact same time he'd claim it to be worth a fortune when using it as collateral for a loan or when making an Insurance claim on it etc.

    That is a crime , not a simple error.

    Also , it should be noted that as well as not being able to give or get a pardon for State level crimes he can also not be pardoned from Civil suits.

    So for example , he can't pardon his way out of the two Civil cases relating to rape/sexual assault allegations.


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    #9045
    timsey tiger
    Registered Users Posts: 1,768 ✭✭✭timsey tiger


    :rolleyes:
    silverharp wrote: »
    thats about the height of it, Technically Im not sure he can pardon himself, again a suggestion here is that resigns a day or 2 before the end of his term and makes Pence President and he gives Trump a pardon, that would be hilarious :pac:

    I think we can agree whatever happens it will be interesting

    What would be really cool is if Pence then told him to feck off, for being the spawn of satan. Or some such religious mumbo jumbo. :pac:

    God having got all he could out of his "imperfect vessel" and all. :rolleyes:


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    #9046
    duploelabs
    Registered Users Posts: 11,452 ✭✭✭✭duploelabs


    silverharp wrote: »
    It isnt a tax evasion case, just a run of the mill tax case, normal commercial stuff

    Except during deposition given by Robert Mueller...
    "Could you charge the president with a crime after he left office?" Buck asked.

    Mueller responded, "yes."

    https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2019/07/24/robert-mueller-donald-trump-can-charged-after-leaving-office/1814190001/


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    #9047
    Kermit.de.frog
    Registered Users Posts: 23,762 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    Republicans suffering amnesia. The hypocrisy is absolutely mind blowing


    https://twitter.com/tamburlaine01/status/1333608377675517952


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    #9048
    timsey tiger
    Registered Users Posts: 1,768 ✭✭✭timsey tiger


    Kermit.de.frog wrote: »
    Republicans suffering amnesia. The hypocrisy is absolutely mind blowing


    https://twitter.com/tamburlaine01/status/1333608377675517952

    Well that would work both ways, if the allegations are in any way true. They probably are not given form.


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    #9049
    everlast75
    Registered Users Posts: 19,800 ✭✭✭✭everlast75


    duploelabs wrote: »
    Except during deposition given by Robert Mueller...



    https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2019/07/24/robert-mueller-donald-trump-can-charged-after-leaving-office/1814190001/

    If i remember correctly, that line of questioning was in relation to obstruction of justice charges


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    #9050
    Selik
    Registered Users Posts: 1,678 ✭✭✭Selik


    Carfacemandog wrote: »
    Not actually trying to be funny here, but is your mate also into QAnon?

    There's a very common trend between QAnon and Trump which is that something "huge" is always "right around the corner".

    It tends to work very well on people prone to being scammed or gifted. Which doesn't automatically mean dumb people so it's not a shot at your friend, as much as pointing out a common theme.

    Ultimately your friends bet is going to land him out of pocket. You should ask if he put on a bet or donated to some "effort" because if the latter, he someone somewhere is openly laughing at him while taking his money.

    Every single swing state to the best of my knowledge has now certified.

    He claims to know nothing or very little about Qanon when asked. He's doubled down on his bet!


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    #9051
    eagle eye
    Registered Users Posts: 38,557 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    Selik wrote:
    He claims to know nothing or very little about Qanon when asked. He's doubled down on his bet!
    He's getting his news from a bad source. Advise him to read his news from respectable sources like Reuters, the BBC, Washington Post and New York Times.
    If he wants more in-depth stuff then Politico is a good place to go.


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    #9052
    Cody montana
    Registered Users Posts: 5,330 ✭✭✭Cody montana


    Rudy Giuliani has asked Donald Trump about receiving a pre-emptive pardon before he leaves office - while claiming he can secure him a second term by overturning election results He


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    #9053
    duploelabs
    Registered Users Posts: 11,452 ✭✭✭✭duploelabs


    Cody montana wrote: »
    Rudy Giuliani has asked Donald Trump about receiving a pre-emptive pardon before he leaves office - while claiming he can secure him a second term by overturning election results He

    Don't know who's dumber


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    #9054
    Selik
    Registered Users Posts: 1,678 ✭✭✭Selik


    eagle eye wrote: »
    He's getting his news from a bad source. Advise him to read his news from respectable sources like Reuters, the BBC, Washington Post and New York Times.
    If he wants more in-depth stuff then Politico is a good place to go.

    With respect, he would be rolling around laughing at the suggestion of all of those except perhaps Reuters. Then again he probably doesn't trust Reuters either. To be fair the first three are more democrat leaning, not sure about Reuters.

    After bitching about the result for weeks now, at least he's putting some dough on the line now. January could be funny and he may go to ground !


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    #9055
    eagle eye
    Registered Users Posts: 38,557 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    Selik wrote:
    With respect, he would be rolling around laughing at the suggestion of all of those except perhaps Reuters. Then again he probably doesn't trust Reuters either. To be fair the first three are more democrat leaning, not sure about Reuters.
    Reuters and the BBC report news without agenda.
    You can have whatever opinion you like about the Washington Post and New York Times but I find them great.
    I hate biased news media. CNN have become biased as an example and I didn't mention them as a recommendation.


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    #9056
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 83,490 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Cody montana wrote: »
    Rudy Giuliani has asked Donald Trump about receiving a pre-emptive pardon before he leaves office - while claiming he can secure him a second term by overturning election results He

    Do these people not know how the 5th Amendment works?


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    #9057
    Tell me how
    Registered Users Posts: 21,700 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    Overheal wrote: »
    Do these people not know how the 5th Amendment works?

    They don't know how mail in ballots work and their Supreme Court nominee (who was approved by Senate) couldn't remember the 5 rights afforded by the 1st Amendment so them not understanding the 5th amendment would not surprise me.


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    #9058
    everlast75
    Registered Users Posts: 19,800 ✭✭✭✭everlast75


    Overheal wrote: »
    Do these people not know how the 5th Amendment works?

    At this stage of Rudy's steep legal disintegration, I'd be surprised if he still knows the definition of "plaintiff" and "defendant "....


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    #9059
    MeMen2_MoRi_
    Registered Users Posts: 1,982 ✭✭✭MeMen2_MoRi_


    Uhmmm.. such great people that hired by the greatest business person.

    https://twitter.com/nowthisnews/status/1333822843969302529?s=19


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    #9060
    VinLieger
    Registered Users Posts: 18,168 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    Selik wrote: »
    With respect, he would be rolling around laughing at the suggestion of all of those except perhaps Reuters. Then again he probably doesn't trust Reuters either. To be fair the first three are more democrat leaning, not sure about Reuters.

    After bitching about the result for weeks now, at least he's putting some dough on the line now. January could be funny and he may go to ground !

    Imo from reading your descriptions hes deep down the Q rabbit hole but is either oblivious that the conspiracy theories hes into are coming from Qanon or hes too embarrassed to admit it knowing the reaction hed get


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    #9061
    nolivesmatter
    Registered Users Posts: 896 ✭✭✭nolivesmatter


    Kermit.de.frog wrote: »
    Republicans suffering amnesia. The hypocrisy is absolutely mind blowing


    https://twitter.com/tamburlaine01/status/1333608377675517952

    As someone already mentioned the hypocrisy would go both ways.

    How is she perceived by democrat supporters? I don't know much about her and obviously republicans won't like anyone appointed.


This discussion has been closed.
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