11 Speed Shimano Problem

hesker

I'm trying to convert my bike from 10 speed Campy to 11 speed shimano.

Have the Shimano groupset fitted. Wheels are still Campy so have an 11 speed Campy Chorus cassette fitted.

This mix has been reported to work well by many as the cassette spacing is very close. However for me under moderate torque in several of the gears it sounds like the chain is jumping. Hard to see what is going on as on a stand or pedalling in reverse it shows no problem. I have the shifting adjusted so it shifts smoothly.

I thought it might be the Shimano chain (bought new) and so splashed out on a new KMC X11 chain but problem is still there.

Any ideas on what to check?

I've had the freehub out and it seems to be working fine. The RD hanger has never taken a hit and alignment looks fine. Sprockets and chainset are not worn. I've even checked the sprocket spacers and they are 2.2mm as expected.

I'd love to borrow another Campy or Shimano 11 speed wheel if someone in Cork city could loan me one for a quick test.

crosstownk

Worn freehub?

07Lapierre

Is the chain campy or shimano?

TheBlaaMan

Assuming you haven't had the cassette off the wheel and done something ....odd ....in re-fitting, you need to rule-out that it is simply that the cassette is worn, especially if the jumping is in only certain sprockets. With a new chain (Shimano or KMC) this worn/new combination may result in this symptom. Maybe see of you can borrow a fresh Campag cassette to try with the new chain?

hesker

I did have the freehub out as part of the switch over to give it a service. The freehub bearings are good as new. The pawls look fine & spring in and out as they should. With the freehub on there is no movement slop. Everything feels solid.
I'm still not 100% on it as under torque it could be slipping but it never slipped once ever running on 10 speed.

When I was trying to see if it was the chain catching I switched the cassette sprockets around. In the first 3 gears I had no problem. Then I moved the 21-19-17 grouped sprockets to the inside leaving the 29-26-23 grouped sprockets at positions 4 to 6 if you follow me. In this arrangement there was no slipping in gears 4 to 11, but there was now in gears 1-3.

So I thought I had a problem only with these sprockets and it was due to the chain incompatibility.

So I bought a KMC Campagnolo/Shimano/SRAM compatible chain. Still have the problem.

I reckon I could rule out the freehub if I could borrow another wheel or Campagnolo cassette.

martyc5674

When you mention gears 1-3, do you mean the smaller sprockets?

hesker

No, I mean the largest sprocket is gear 1, nearest to the spokes.

I just double checked the spacers again. There are 4 in total. 3 are the same shape and are supposed to be 2.2mm. Mine range from 2.16 to 2.20 which I guess should not be a problem and probably within tolerance.

The other spacer is a bit different and is supposed to be 2.3mm. Mine is 2.20mm. Not sure if this makes much of a difference either.

onthefringe

hesker wrote: »

No, I mean the largest sprocket is gear 1, nearest to the spokes.

I just double checked the spacers again. There are 4 in total. 3 are the same shape and are supposed to be 2.2mm. Mine range from 2.16 to 2.20 which I guess should not be a problem and probably within tolerance.

The other spacer is a bit different and is supposed to be 2.3mm. Mine is 2.20mm. Not sure if this makes much of a difference either.

I’m gona guess if the top 3 sprockets are fine that your chain is too long -
If it’s a fresh cassette
New chain
And drive train is well set up - sound like the issue

hesker

No, it's not the chain length. See post #5.

martyc5674

hesker wrote: »

No, it's not the chain length. See post #5.

That’s where I was going by asking which sprockets it’s slipping in(and sorry I’m still none the wiser!)
I don’t see where you mentioned you had shortened the chain to correct length.
Just for clarity- is it slipping in the smallest sprockets(Highest gears) or the largest sprockets(Small gears)

hesker

It’s an 11-29 cassette. I had no problem in the first 3 gears, that is 29-26-23.

I had definite problems in gears 4-6, that is 21-19-17.

I didn’t have problems in gears 7-11.

It seemed like a spacing issue on 21-19-17 or a chain incompatibility issue. But a KMC chain shows the same problem.

It’s still hard to rule out the freehub though as it will experience different torques and stresses in different gears. And that’s what I’m putting my money on but trying to explore all options.

Chain length is not the problem as it occurs on the small and big chainring. Two new chains, shortened to the correct length when fitted.

onthefringe

hesker wrote: »

It’s an 11-29 cassette. I had no problem in the first 3 gears, that is 29-26-23.

I had definite problems in gears 4-6, that is 21-19-17.

I didn’t have problems in gears 7-11.

It seemed like a spacing issue on 21-19-17 or a chain incompatibility issue. But a KMC chain shows the same problem.

It’s still hard to rule out the freehub though as it will experience different torques and stresses in different gears. And that’s what I’m putting my money on but trying to explore all options.

Chain length is not the problem as it occurs on the small and big chainring. Two new chains, shortened to the correct length when fitted.

Was the cassette brand new - or just new to you ?
Those cogs are the most used generally...
Could be excessive wear if not new or newish

hesker

This is the Chorus cassette. Bought 2nd hand.

Do people think this looks worn out?

I will try another one if I can get my hands on one.



and this is the diagram showing the sprocket spacing

letape

I wouldn’t have expected that Shimano 10 speed would work with an 11 speed Campagnolo cassette. Shimano 11 speed components would work well with a campagnolo cassette, but not 10 speed.

Would you not be better off changing the freehub and cassette to Shimano 10?

hesker

I don't think I mentioned 10 speed Shimano anywhere but maybe there's a typo somewhere. The thread title is correct.

Someone has very kindly offered me a loan of an 11 speed Shimano wheel. Just waiting for the rain to clear. I plan to buy a new Shimano wheelset alright but wanted to get this wheelset working to see if I really was happy with the upgrade before splashing out more cash.

If I could borrow a Campagnolo 11 speed cassette or a campag freehub also I think I'd have most of the answers.

letape

Sorry - I had obviously misread one of the posts.

If you are near Greystones I have campagnolo and Shimano 11 cassettes you can try (edit: I see you are in cork)

- the chorus cassette in the picture above looks good to me

hesker

Thanks for the offer in any case.

Yeah I thought the cassette looked good before I bought it and it does actually look better in the flesh.

hesker

So thanks to a member on here I got to try out an 11 speed Shimano wheel this afternoon.

No problem whatsoever. Smooth in every gear. So at least buying a new wheel should sort the problem.

martyc5674

hesker wrote: »

So thanks to a member on here I got to try out an 11 speed Shimano wheel this afternoon.

No problem whatsoever. Smooth in every gear. So at least buying a new wheel should sort the problem.

Did you swap cassettes?

hesker

With the help of the guy at the top of the M40 list here I got to play around with some Campy gear this evening. Thanks Steve!

Swapped wheels first and the problem transferred to his bike. So cassette or freehub is the problem as expected.

Then switched cassettes and the problem stayed with the cassette, on a fully Campy equipped bike with KMC 11 speed chain.

His Campy 11 speed cassette works perfectly on my wheel & bike.

So although it doesn't look it, it seems like the cassette is just worn.

martyc5674

hesker wrote: »

With the help of the guy at the top of the M40 list here I got to play around with some Campy gear this evening. Thanks Steve!

Swapped wheels first and the problem transferred to his bike. So cassette or freehub is the problem as expected.

Then switched cassettes and the problem stayed with the cassette, on a fully Campy equipped bike with KMC 11 speed chain.

His Campy 11 speed cassette works perfectly on my wheel & bike.

So although it doesn't look it, it seems like the cassette is just worn.

Well at least you have it narrowed down.
If you have a go pro mount it to record what’s happening under load. It could be something simple like a slightly bent tooth which would effect 2 sprockets. Else it’s spacing as that cassette does not look worn.
Marty.

hesker

martyc5674 wrote: »

Well at least you have it narrowed down.
If you have a go pro mount it to record what’s happening under load. It could be something simple like a slightly bent tooth which would effect 2 sprockets. Else it’s spacing as that cassette does not look worn.
Marty.

Don’t have a go pro but thought of mounting my phone on a stick.

Teeth look fine to my eyes. It does feel like a link is riding up an adjacent cog as it comes off the guide pulley and then slapping down hard.

The 17-19-21 fused cluster is the worst affected and the gaps here are factory determined. Happens on the 19T as much as the others.

Also happens on the next cog down, the 15T.

I agree cogs don’t look worn so it’s puzzling.

At this stage I might do nothing more. Seller seems agreeable to a refund if I cover return postage.