Are you adhering to the Households rule?

Stateofyou

weldoninhio wrote: »

The health care system is the least busy it’s been for years.

Health care professionals and this country's leaders are all ringing the alarm bell.
They have projected it will buckle under the pressure and cannot cope with the rates of hospitalisations.
You know something they don't?

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/0103/1187413-coronavirus-ireland/

Paddygreen

Mongfinder General wrote: »

Took the piss is putting it mildly. I help out with a football team that has good facilities. 90% of the trades is from regulars. Well, all I can say is that during the month of December they behaved like cnuts. 3 or 4 drinks is all it took. Broke every rule/piece of guidance in the book. Literally didn’t give a fcuk. All ages, all backgrounds. Pig ignorant. Well **** them, because they probably won’t see a pint fir another theee months.

Corn ripe for the dark harvest my friend. Heartless granny huggers, reprobates emboldened by bags of cans and a desire to touch and fondle each other. Partying on while the reaper stalks our land. Not in it together, not holding firm, not staying apart to save lives. Internment is the only answer guys. Maybe we could get on to the Brits and borrow some of the pop up “nightingale “ hospitals that were never used, they could be dusted off and set up in Roscommon to contain these repulsive pariahs. A few reels of barbed wire, a mains electric fence, a few man-traps, guard towers, bobs your uncle.

weldoninhio

Stateofyou wrote: »

Health care professionals and this country's leaders are all ringing the alarm bell.
They have projected it will buckle under the pressure and cannot cope with the rates of hospitalisations.
You know something they don't?

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/0103/1187413-coronavirus-ireland/

Projected means in the future. For the past few months the hospitals are the quietest they’ve ever been in the winter months.

Stateofyou

weldoninhio wrote: »

Projected means in the future. For the past few months the hospitals are the quietest they’ve ever been in the winter months.

Source?

What you're saying is irrelevant anyway. Our health care service needs to run a Covid service, and non covid service and now also try and rollout the largest vaccine programme ever. On top of losing hundreds of hospital staff to quarantines and illness.

The Irish Nurses & Midwives Organisation (INMO) have said they are struggling, big time. I'll take their word and the words of the CMO regarding the danger of overrunning the health service over your sourceless and irrelevant ones...

Paddygreen

weldoninhio wrote: »

For the past few months the hospitals are the quietest they’ve ever been in the winter months.

Has this been fact checked by RTE , the Irish Times, Newstalk or any of our other esteemed media outlets? If not it’s fake news and didn’t happen.

PintOfView

Personally I can't see any alternative to the lockdown. I know it badly affects a lot of people, but what is the alternative?
If everyone confined their movements for the next month or so what will happen? Surely that will bring down the virus incidence!
If we lifted all restrictions now what will happen? Would the virus not keep on growing exponentially? Would all hospitals not get overwhelmed in a few weeks? If that happened, and all beds, incl ICU, are full, then further covid and non-covid patients have to be turned away?
The options look to me as follows ...
- On one extreme you could have a severe lockdown for a couple of months and likely get the virus down to very low numbers or almost eliminated.
- Less extreme, we could have the type of lockdown we have now for the next month or so, where most people adhere to the restrictions, which will bring down numbers for a few months, and when numbers increase we lockdown again (hopefully just one more time till the vaccines kick in).
- Or we could loosen up right now, which would effectively be saying we accept that the hospitals will get overwhelmed, resulting in people being turned away, some of whom will die at home, and when the dust settles most of the survivors will probably be immune to the virus, some with longer term effects, and there will also have been a significant number of deaths, both due to covid and to other causes for which there was no medical capacity during this time.

Are there other options, am I missing part of the picture?

Windmill100000

Stateofyou wrote: »

Source?

What you're saying is irrelevant anyway. Our health care service needs to run a Covid service, and non covid service and now also try and rollout the largest vaccine programme ever. On top of losing hundreds of hospital staff to quarantines and illness.

The Irish Nurses & Midwives Organisation (INMO) have said they are struggling, big time. I'll take their word and the words of the CMO regarding the danger of overrunning the health service over your sourceless and irrelevant ones...

They have been struggling big time well before covid landed. Newly qualified nurses leave for better pay and conditions abroad and have done for ages....

https://www.thejournal.ie/nursing-shortage-cork-3500977-Jul2017/

weldoninhio

weldoninhio wrote: »

Anyone that wants to 100% lockdown, can. And they’ll be 100% safe. Why so nosy about what others do?

Saying this over and over again does not make it true.

Stateofyou

Windmill100000 wrote: »

They have been struggling big time well before covid landed. Newly qualified nurses leave for better pay and conditions abroad and have done for ages....

https://www.thejournal.ie/nursing-shortage-cork-3500977-Jul2017/

True. The problems we are facing did not break the health care system, covid only further exposed the failures of the health care system that has been underfunded and mismanaged for decades.

But-it is what it is until people vote for better.

We have a health service with an old computer system that can't cope so what choice have we got other than to try our best to stop it from going completely on it's knees. Because we're all f'd then.

stezie

PintOfView wrote: »

Personally I can't see any alternative to the lockdown. I know it badly affects a lot of people, but what is the alternative?
If everyone confined their movements for the next month or so what will happen? Surely that will bring down the virus incidence!
If we lifted all restrictions now what will happen? Would the virus not keep on growing exponentially? Would all hospitals not get overwhelmed in a few weeks? If that happened, and all beds, incl ICU, are full, then further covid and non-covid patients have to be turned away?
The options look to me as follows ...
- On one extreme you could have a severe lockdown for a couple of months and likely get the virus down to very low numbers or almost eliminated.
- Less extreme, we could have the type of lockdown we have now for the next month or so, where most people adhere to the restrictions, which will bring down numbers for a few months, and when numbers increase we lockdown again (hopefully just one more time till the vaccines kick in).
- Or we could loosen up right now, which would effectively be saying we accept that the hospitals will get overwhelmed, resulting in people being turned away, some of whom will die at home, and when the dust settles most of the survivors will probably be immune to the virus, some with longer term effects, and there will also have been a significant number of deaths, both due to covid and to other causes for which there was no medical capacity during this time.

Are there other options, am I missing part of the picture?

A lock down will only work, if it was guaranteed to eliminate the virus completely.

All it takes is one person with the virus and it will spread all over again. Remember it started with one person.

For a lock down to work , it will require every man, woman, child including military personnel, politicians, shop assistant, guard, doctor , nurse, etc etc to isolate themselves for a minimum of two weeks.. without police or medical, we will need to hope on the good will of everyone not to loot and riot during that period until the virus is completely gone.

This is not realistic. how long can PUP go on for?

Think on the impact to the economy. The economy should be allowed to continue to funnel funds back into resources to sufficiently deal with this. emergency funding should be raised, not for PUP, but for additional hospital and medical capacity until a valid vaccine is deployed.

I don't see any hospitals advertising additional capacity since this pandemic really got going 9/10 months ago? please show me a link if it exists..

This time last year they where under pressure before covid was even a thing.

As far as I can tell our government has not produced any plans to live with and manage this virus.
"stay indoors, dont meet people, dont go to work, dont partake in any hobbys or holidays. Do a small bit of exercise if you really have to, alone. Do as we say, and you will have a great life".. this isn't a plan.

PintOfView

stezie wrote: »

A lock down will only work, if it was guaranteed to eliminate the virus completely.

All it takes is one person with the virus and it will spread all over again. Remember it started with one person.

For a lock down to work , it will require every man, woman, child including military personnel, politicians, shop assistant, guard, doctor , nurse, etc etc to isolate themselves for a minimum of two weeks.. without police or medical, we will need to hope on the good will of everyone not to loot and riot during that period until the virus is completely gone.

This is not realistic. how long can PUP go on for?

Did it not work in New Zealand and Australia, despite small outbreaks which were brought back under control?

PintOfView

stezie wrote: »

Think on the impact to the economy. The economy should be allowed to continue to funnel funds back into resources to sufficiently deal with this. emergency funding should be raised, not for PUP, but for additional hospital and medical capacity until a valid vaccine is deployed.

I don't see any hospitals advertising additional capacity since this pandemic really got going 9/10 months ago? please show me a link if it exists..

This time last year they where under pressure before covid was even a thing.

As far as I can tell our government has not produced any plans to live with and manage this virus.
"stay indoors, dont meet people, dont go to work, dont partake in any hobbys or holidays. Do a small bit of exercise if you really have to, alone. Do as we say, and you will have a great life".. this isn't a plan.

I want the economy to get back to normal as much as the next person. If we open things up now how will the economy perform during the inevitable health emergency that follows. And, are you saying that it's worth the deaths that it will cause?

Re the hospitals advertising for additional capacity, and I agree that we need more, however even if they managed to increase capacity by 25% (which would be an achievement in itself, and would require month / years) do you think that would do much more than delay the overwhelming of the hospitals for a week or two, and realistically would it reduce the eventual deaths?

TomTomTim

John O.Groats wrote: »

Paddy is a parody account but it `s quite obvious that he is anti restrictions at heart.

After your drone comments, I wondered were you a parody too.

acequion

PintOfView wrote: »

Did it not work in New Zealand and Australia, despite small outbreaks which were brought back under control?

Jesus how many more times do people have to be told that we ARE NOT New Zealand and Australia. We are not isolated autonomous islands in the south Pacific. We are part of the European Union and we have a land border with the UK.

Why can't people get that! :rolleyes:

Rubberchikken

Yes I am. Have stuck to every bloody restriction and rule. Wear full ppe at work for 12 hours a shift. Not easy but that's life at the moment.
Onwards and upwards:)

Samsonsmasher

PintOfView wrote: »

Personally I can't see any alternative to the lockdown. I know it badly affects a lot of people, but what is the alternative?
If everyone confined their movements for the next month or so what will happen? Surely that will bring down the virus incidence!
If we lifted all restrictions now what will happen? Would the virus not keep on growing exponentially? Would all hospitals not get overwhelmed in a few weeks? If that happened, and all beds, incl ICU, are full, then further covid and non-covid patients have to be turned away?
The options look to me as follows ...
- On one extreme you could have a severe lockdown for a couple of months and likely get the virus down to very low numbers or almost eliminated.
- Less extreme, we could have the type of lockdown we have now for the next month or so, where most people adhere to the restrictions, which will bring down numbers for a few months, and when numbers increase we lockdown again (hopefully just one more time till the vaccines kick in).
- Or we could loosen up right now, which would effectively be saying we accept that the hospitals will get overwhelmed, resulting in people being turned away, some of whom will die at home, and when the dust settles most of the survivors will probably be immune to the virus, some with longer term effects, and there will also have been a significant number of deaths, both due to covid and to other causes for which there was no medical capacity during this time.

Are there other options, am I missing part of the picture?

The alternative is we open up and get back to normal immediately. The death rate from this virus is 0.03%.
Where are the 100000 deaths? We have had 2000+ deaths. The predictions were 98% wrong.
Jobs and businesses and the economy is being destroyed. Kids and students are having their education ruined. We are tens of billions of euro in debt. Suicides are sky rocketing and we face a mental health catastrophe due to loneliness depression and despair.
Anyone who wears masks distances washes their hands will be doing it in a tent in the rain in a year's time as houses are repossessed by the banks and renters are thrown out on the street.
We have been taken over by fear panic hysteria with the blind leading the blind into a ditch.

xhomelezz

Samsonsmasher wrote: »

The alternative is we open up and get back to normal immediately. The death rate from this virus is 0.03%.
Where are the 100000 deaths? We have had 2000+ deaths. The predictions were 98% wrong.
Jobs and businesses and the economy is being destroyed. Kids and students are having their education ruined. We are tens of billions of euro in debt. Suicides are sky rocketing and we face a mental health catastrophe due to loneliness depression and despair.
Anyone who wears masks distances washes their hands will be doing it in a tent in the rain in a year's time as houses are repossessed by the banks and renters are thrown out on the street.

Yeah right, if you go with this alternative the impact will be probably even worse.

Samsonsmasher

xhomelezz wrote: »

Yeah right, if you go with this alternative the impact will be probably even worse.

The death rate is only 0.03%.
How is this not registering with you?

PintOfView

acequion wrote: »

Jesus how many more times do people have to be told that we ARE NOT New Zealand and Australia. We are not isolated autonomous islands in the south Pacific. We are part of the European Union and we have a land border with the UK.

Why can't people get that! :rolleyes:

I agree the border with the North complicates things, and ideally we would have an all island approach. However the North was, and I think still is, 4 time worse that the South as regards cases and deaths, etc. So what we do down here does make a difference to the outcome.

On the EU front, are you saying that it would be unacceptable to insist on people quarantining for two weeks upon arrival in Ireland, and is that because the EU would not want us doing that, or for some other reason?

xhomelezz

Samsonsmasher wrote: »

The death rate is only 0.03%.
How is this not registering with you?

None of the countries will go that way.. It was explained many times before.
How is this not registering with you?

PintOfView

Samsonsmasher wrote: »

The death rate is only 0.03%.
How is this not registering with you?

Can you tell me how you know the death rate is only 0.03% ?
I would be very happy to change my mind about all this if the death rate was that low (ie. only 3 dead in every 10,000 who get it - is that not lower than the yearly flu?)

D9Male

Samsonsmasher wrote: »

The alternative is we open up and get back to normal immediately. The death rate from this virus is 0.03%.
Where are the 100000 deaths? We have had 2000+ deaths. The predictions were 98% wrong.
Jobs and businesses and the economy is being destroyed. Kids and students are having their education ruined. We are tens of billions of euro in debt. Suicides are sky rocketing and we face a mental health catastrophe due to loneliness depression and despair.
Anyone who wears masks distances washes their hands will be doing it in a tent in the rain in a year's time as houses are repossessed by the banks and renters are thrown out on the street.
We have been taken over by fear panic hysteria with the blind leading the blind into a ditch.

Time and time again, I hear/read this argument.


I am not sure who predicted 100k deaths. I never saw anything like this. But even if someone in authority did predict a high level of deaths, the prediction would have been if we did nothing by way of restrictions.

"Loads will die unless we lockdown."

....

(Lockdown)

....

Loads don't die.

D9Male

D9Male wrote: »

Time and time again, I hear/read this argument.


I am not sure who predicted 100k deaths. I never saw anything like this. But even if someone in authority did predict a high level of deaths, the prediction would have been if we did nothing by way of restrictions.

"Loads will die unless we lockdown."

....

(Lockdown)

....

Loads don't die.

No different than proclaiming we’ll all be living in tents when this is over.

SusieBlue

PintOfView wrote: »

I agree the border with the North complicates things, and ideally we would have an all island approach. However the North was, and I think still is, 4 time worse that the South as regards cases and deaths, etc. So what we do down here does make a difference to the outcome.

On the EU front, are you saying that it would be unacceptable to insist on people quarantining for two weeks upon arrival in Ireland, and is that because the EU would not want us doing that, or for some other reason?

It doesn’t just complicates things, it makes our situation complete incomparable to the situations in New Zealand and Australia.
We share an island with another jurisdiction, who have a completely different response and approach to managing the virus.
We could bolt our doors shut for months on end but it will make no difference because of the open border.
And we cannot close the border because it would violate the Good Friday Agreement and cause a whole new set of serious problems.

In regards to the quarantining, of course it should be happening, but the government have neither the will nor the resources to follow up on it.
My best friend lives in New York and has been home twice since March, she isolated for two weeks prior to travelling, paid for private covid testing and fully obeyed the isolating rules on this side of her own accord.
But no one followed up to ensure she was doing was she was supposed to be, from the time she got off the plane in Dublin to when she got back on she heard nothing from anyone. She could have off been touring Ireland for all they knew.
There was no enforcement whatsoever. And 10 months into this, I don’t think it’s unreasonable to expect better than that when they’re now locking down the country for the 3rd time.

They aren’t upholding their end of the bargain but continue to point fingers at the public, with no accountability for their own failures. That’s why people are getting annoyed and frustrated.

acequion

stezie wrote: »

As far as I can tell our government has not produced any plans to live with and manage this virus.
"stay indoors, dont meet people, dont go to work, dont partake in any hobbys or holidays. Do a small bit of exercise if you really have to, alone. Do as we say, and you will have a great life".. this isn't a plan.

I really agree with this.

We're all quick to point the finger of blame. And we're all guilty of unfairness in our blame game. And granted no jurisdiction has got this unprecedented [in modern times] challenge spot on. But you elect political leaders to lead. And you really need them to lead you properly in a crisis. And I really feel that our leaders, the Govt and our modern day gods, the Media, have let us down in this crisis. It's been non stop hysteria and scare mongering for the past 10 months. Non stop hyperbole, non stop "concern" and non stop "the next two weeks are critical." Non stop blanket lockdowns with varying degrees of severity. With the net result that whole swathes of the population have switched off and probably switched off big time for Christmas.

A lot of posters here and on other threads have a naïve and simplistic view of human nature and they vent their frustration at what they perceive as "selfish" "moronic" "covidiot" behaviour. Failing to consider that most Irish people, like all in the western world, have grown up with strong feelings of entitlement to their comforts and freedoms. And expecting them to sacrifice those long term and expecting to convince them and keep them on board long term takes a lot of crafty leading and cajoling. Not finger wagging, scare mongering, exaggerating and constant messing with livelihoods. And all the while those doing the finger wagging and scaremongering continue on huge incomes and many, as we've seen, don't fully adhere to the rules themselves. So now you have loads of young people not bothering anymore with restrictions, loads of business people frustrated and fed up and the rest of the population somewhere between depressed and terrified. We needed a more nuanced approach all along. We needed better timed movements through the 5 levels, we needed localised approaches and we definitely needed a more balanced media coverage. If we had had that more people might be on board now.

Because it's now that we do need the nationwide level 5. But we need buy in from the entire population. Remember at the very start they were slow to close schools and get into the lockdown mode of other countries because they said timing was vital for compliance!! Too much and compliance goes down they said. Unfortunately they [ie political leaders, media NPHET] got so caught up in their own scaremongering that they forgot their original logic.

trashcan

Samsonsmasher wrote: »

Anyone who wears masks distances washes their hands will be doing it in a tent in the rain in a year's time as houses are repossessed by the banks and renters are thrown out on the street.
We have been taken over by fear panic hysteria with the blind leading the blind into a ditch.

Hmm. Panic and hysteria you say ?

Effects

Just overheard neighbours arguing about an outbreak on our street. They are trying to figure out who was at a Christmas lunch get together where it all originated apparently. Díckheads.

weldoninhio

Windmill100000 wrote: »

They have been struggling big time well before covid landed. Newly qualified nurses leave for better pay and conditions abroad and have done for ages....

https://www.thejournal.ie/nursing-shortage-cork-3500977-Jul2017/

Exactly. NHS alone has over 13000 Irish workers.

PintOfView

SusieBlue wrote: »

It doesn’t just complicates things, it makes our situation complete incomparable to the situations in New Zealand and Australia.
We share an island with another jurisdiction, who have a completely different response and approach to managing the virus.
We could bolt our doors shut for months on end but it will make no difference because of the open border.
And we cannot close the border because it would violate the Good Friday Agreement and cause a whole new set of serious problems.

In regards to the quarantining, of course it should be happening, but the government have neither the will nor the resources to follow up on it.

I grant you the North and border etc. does make it more difficult. It's regrettable that one half of the population up there can't see that a common approach would be a win/win for both North & South.

Re the quarantining, I can see that the government might not have the will, but as to resources, we've got a lot of people out of work, would we not be able to pay some of those people a bit on top of the pup to help monitor quarantining?

beggars_bush

Samsonsmasher wrote: »

The death rate is only 0.03%.
How is this not registering with you?

Thats fine
But all the sick people in icu and hospital beds will overwhelm the health system