Sean Kelly - list of victories

breezy1985

Cape Clear wrote: »

Can't believe nobody has mentioned international super star Pat Spillane yet until Breezy 1985

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wZUJ_bV2eHk

Pat Spillane International superstar sounds way too much like he's some sort of playboy gigolo.

Some farmers tan on him at the end there too

greenspurs

Chivito550 wrote: »

Sprinting in cycling isn't like sprinting in athletics. No distance runner can be proficient at 100m. It's not possible. Sonia had an explosive finishing kick which is closest equivalent to a cycling sprinter.

If you want to make direct comparisons, then the track cycling sprint is closest equivalent to 100m, which Kelly didn't excel in.

Depending on the size of the velodrome, a track cycle sprint can be from 250 m to 1000 m.
And usually the sprint is a slow bicycle race until the final 200m ....

Kelly was ultimately a sprinter , but he could time trial also and could climb quite well for a man of his build.
He was an all rounder .

eeeee

DonegalBay wrote: »

How many Irish sportspeople would rank in the Top 10 of all time in their respective sports? Because Kelly is frequently ranked in that bracket and not just here in Ireland, but in international circles. Katie Taylor, Roy Keane wouldnt come close, Sonia might if you narrow it down to just the 5000m. If you narrowed it down to the Classiscs for Kelly, he would be Top 5, maybe Top 3 of all-time.

We have the best jockeys in the world. From the now old school (cos I'm not in that world anymore) there was AP McCoy, Ruby Walsh, Paul Carberry, Nina Carbery and Katie Walsh (the last two blazing trails for the likes of Rachel Blackmore, Haley Turner etc.). The you have showjumpers, numerous World number 1 sports for Irish riders.
We seem to be pretty good at certain types of rowing - an Olympic medal is not to be sniffed at.

greenspurs wrote: »

Depending on the size of the velodrome, a track cycle sprint can be from 250 m to 1000 m.
And usually the sprint is a slow bicycle race until the final 200m ....

Kelly was ultimately a sprinter , but he could time trial also and could climb quite well for a man of his build.
He was an all rounder .

A track sprint can be 60m.

Kelly, in fairness, wouldn't hold a candle to a pure track sprinter - it's just that much faster and waaaaay more explosive. Viviani and Cavendish, road sprinters, are endurance track riders (they have a kick but their 200m times are good bit off the pure sprinters) and can't compete with pure track sprinters. In the same way a 1000m or 15000m runner might be explosive for their distance, and have a good kick, they'd be blown away by a 100m runner in a 100m track race.




I am an outlier as I am really not in the Sean Kelly fan club. I found the comment he made about his wife v car v bike that people love massively sexist. It's interesting that his daughter doesn't speak to him and he hasn't met his grandchild yet. I suppose he'll be working with Conor Dunne on GCN at some point so maybe that's just a rumour.

I just can't find anything to admire in someone who dismisses their partner to that extent. He was obviously a beast on a bike, a legend of the sport, a doper, but gritty and clearly massively talented.

But he's not the kind of sports person I admire personally.

greenspurs

eeeee wrote: »

We have the best jockeys in the world. From the now old school (cos I'm not in that world anymore) there was AP McCoy, Ruby Walsh, Paul Carberry, Nina Carbery and Katie Walsh (the last two blazing trails for the likes of Rachel Blackmore, Haley Turner etc.). The you have showjumpers, numerous World number 1 sports for Irish riders.
We seem to be pretty good at certain types of rowing - an Olympic medal is not to be sniffed at.





A track sprint can be 60m.

Kelly, in fairness, wouldn't hold a candle to a pure track sprinter - it's just that much faster and waaaaay more explosive. Viviani and Cavendish, road sprinters, are endurance track riders (they have a kick but their 200m times are good bit off the pure sprinters) and can't compete with pure track sprinters. In the same way a 1000m or 15000m runner might be explosive for their distance, and have a good kick, they'd be blown away by a 100m runner in a 100m track race.




I am an outlier as I am really not in the Sean Kelly fan club. I found the comment he made about his wife v car v bike that people love massively sexist. It's interesting that his daughter doesn't speak to him and he hasn't met his grandchild yet. I suppose he'll be working with Conor Dunne on GCN at some point so maybe that's just a rumour.

I just can't find anything to admire in someone who dismisses their partner to that extent. He was obviously a beast on a bike, a legend of the sport, a doper, but gritty and clearly massively talented.

But he's not the kind of sports person I admire personally.

So someones personal life is a factor in how good he is ??
Very self righteous of you .........

Will you bring up Sonia OSullivan wanting to run for Australia in the commonwwealth games ?? Or are you in her fan club ?

happytramp

DonegalBay wrote: »

How many Irish sportspeople would rank in the Top 10 of all time in their respective sports? Because Kelly is frequently ranked in that bracket and not just here in Ireland, but in international circles. Katie Taylor, Roy Keane wouldnt come close, Sonia might if you narrow it down to just the 5000m. If you narrowed it down to the Classiscs for Kelly, he would be Top 5, maybe Top 3 of all-time.

Whenever the topic comes up on various websites/cycling forums kelly frequently features in 'top 5' of all time greats... Just behind Merckx, Hinault, Coppi and Anquetil with Kelly 5th.

eeeee

greenspurs wrote: »

So someones personal life is a factor in how good he is ??
Very self righteous of you .........

Will you bring up Sonia OSullivan wanting to run for Australia in the commonwwealth games ?? Or are you in her fan club ?

Off court/ pitch/ road behaviour 100% influences whether I admire them or not.
You can't separate the person from the victory/ success. It's not self righteous, I just have a set of values as a person and sexism it's something I cannot in any way, shape or form look up to in a person.

breezy1985

eeeee wrote: »

We have the best jockeys in the world. From the now old school (cos I'm not in that world anymore) there was AP McCoy, Ruby Walsh, Paul Carberry, Nina Carbery and Katie Walsh (the last two blazing trails for the likes of Rachel Blackmore, Haley Turner etc.). The you have showjumpers, numerous World number 1 sports for Irish riders.
We seem to be pretty good at certain types of rowing - an Olympic medal is not to be sniffed at.

I wouldnt compare Kelly to a jockey. Kelly has to make his bike move whereas Rubys ride does the hard work for him

swarlb

So, after 68 posts, does anyone actually know how many races he won....
And what about Nigel.... nobody has mentioned or torn strips off him yet !!

eeeee

breezy1985 wrote: »

I wouldnt compare Kelly to a jockey. Kelly has to make his bike move whereas Rubys ride does the hard work for him

Ha ha ha ha can you imagine?!:pac:

Bass Reeves

happytramp wrote: »

Whenever the topic comes up on various websites/cycling forums kelly frequently features in 'top 5' of all time greats... Just behind Merckx, Hinault, Coppi and Anquetil with Kelly 5th.

Kelly was an animal in his day. The reason he did not win the TDFb was he cycled in the one and two day events every spring and early summer rather than doing endurance training for the mountain part of the tour. If he had been born a Frenchman or a Belgian he could have afforded to give up three money spinning races but he understood that when racing ended he never have the opportunity money one of these lads would have.

On drugs all cyclists took them at the time. However most drugs taken were more in the recovery or pain relief type than performance enhancement type. Because of this it was a pretty level field for all cyclists.

When you see him listed in the top all time greatest cyclists and consider he never won the TDF and the rest all won it multiple times it should tell you how good he was. Kelly had the ability to win one and two day events by himself without much team help.

Roche harbor as not a good a cyclist as Kelly. However the year he won the Giro, Tour and World Championship he had to win the Giro without team help and against Team orders. He was there No 2 cyclist not No 1. He won the TDF with help from Sean Kelly. They cycled as a team in the World Championship and it was Kelly who was supposed to win it. However he was attempting to lead out the sprinters so that Kelly could tag behind them when with the other sprinters watching Kelly he ended up in a winning position and had to take it himself.

Dr Pat O Callaghan was the last of the great Irish Hammer and weight throwers of the early twentieth century. It hard to believe but from 1900-1932 with the exception of one Olympics men born in Ireland won the hammer competition. John Flanagan,X 3 times, Martin McGrath and Pat Ryan. Pat O Callaghan might have three Gold medals except no Irish team was sent to you he '36 games because of a dispute with the British AAA over Northern Irish athletes.

There was another group of athletes from Ireland who were supposed to go to the 36 games. The Casey brother from Sneem in Co Kerry. Here is there story. While they might not claim to be the greatest individual sport person Ireland every produced they probably are the greatest and toughest sporting family.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.irishtimes.com/culture/heritage/the-dream-team-from-sneem-1.1526879%3fmode=amp

RobFowl

Chivito550 wrote: »

Yep, she was 4th in 3000m and 2nd in 1500m at 93 Worlds behind doped Chinese athletes. She should have had 2 gold medals.

Re Sonia
I love they way we still assume she was not doping just because she was Irish.....

RobFowl

Here's a list which is fairly comprehensive
https://www.jeandegribaldy.com/index.php?zone=pages/sean_kelly_et_jean_de_gribaldy

The differences in numbers are due to what you count
Pro Cycling Stats count "pro wins" whihc they consider as 1.1, 2.1 or higher.
Some count Crits which are often (but not always) fixed
Also then lower level wins

PS Cycling Archies list 269 ....
http://www.cyclingarchives.com/coureurfiche.php?coureurid=9041

Cape Clear

greenspurs wrote: »

So someones personal life is a factor in how good he is ??
Very self righteous of you .........

Will you bring up Sonia OSullivan wanting to run for Australia in the commonwwealth games ?? Or are you in her fan club ?

Virtue signaling knows no boundaries.

magicbastarder

what in god's name has 'virtue signalling' got to do with not liking someone personally?
i like the music of van morrison, absolutely love some of it. but when i say that i wouldn't want to meet him, that he's a right ****bag, no one - least of all van morrison fans - would disagree, let alone claim i was virtue signalling.

dublin49

I have always followed all Irish competing overseas and my heroes were and are ,Giles,Brady ,Harrington,Slattery,o Driscoll, Roche and many more,Kelly I was aware of but but had no idea idea of the scale of his 9 monument classic wins ,and all his other many achievements that probably suggest he is the 2nd best all round cyclist of all time ,through reading and youtube I have educated myself late in day to appreciate the greatness of King Kelly and regret I didnt get to enjoy his career live but the coverage back then was scant and unless you were in the cycling fraternity it was easy to miss what was going on in cycling.

El Tarangu

Speak Now wrote: »

In the summer Waterford local radio voted John O'Shea as the country's greatest sportsman.

Large bottle small glass wrote: »

I'm from Waterford and I always thought O'Shea appeared a decent fellow, but Jaysus was he average.

This is the 'soccer effect', and the separate (but very much related) 'Man Utd effect' - there was a thread on here recently with someone earnestly asking how it was that there was any debate as to who the greatest Irish sportsperson ever it, given that we were graced to witness the majesty of Roy Keane in our lifetimes.

That being said - John O'Shea did once nutmeg Figo...

Large bottle small glass wrote: »

Dan Martins 4th overall and stage win is a great achievement. Considering he had no team support it is arguably a better achievement than Bennets. It won't get a mention in the sportsperson of the year awards

An even bigger achievement was finishing 6th overall in the Tour de France in 2017 with zero support (Quickstep were riding for Gaviria, which in fairness was a good bet), with a broken back.

Dan Martin, although he has achieved massively in his career, has been somewhat unlucky - almost won back-to-back Liege-Bastogne-Lieges in 2013 & 2014, finished 2nd to Valverde (speaking of losing out to dopers) in several Fleche Wallones and one LBL .

greenspurs

eeeee wrote: »

Off court/ pitch/ road behaviour 100% influences whether I admire them or not.
You can't separate the person from the victory/ success. It's not self righteous, I just have a set of values as a person and sexism it's something I cannot in any way, shape or form look up to in a person.

Sexism ? Ahh come on fella ....
You have never made a joke ?
So you dont 'admire' anyone sports person with a fault ? Anyone ?
I dont think you will have many "fan clubs" to join so .....

magicbastarder wrote: »

what in god's name has 'virtue signalling' got to do with not liking someone personally?
i like the music of van morrison, absolutely love some of it. but when i say that i wouldn't want to meet him, that he's a right ****bag, no one - least of all van morrison fans - would disagree, let alone claim i was virtue signalling.

I dont understand why someone that admires no one, would come on and use , and mention, someones personal life as a reason to discount the persons sporting ability and palmares !

Chivito550

RobFowl wrote: »

Re Sonia
I love they way we still assume she was not doping just because she was Irish.....

Nothing to do with being Irish for me. She has no links to doping. Simple as that.

There are countless foreign athletes I'd have the same opinion on as I do Sonia.

Difference between athletics and cycling is that clean competitors speak out against doping in athletics, while they don't seem to do so in cycling very much at all. I guess that's partly down to the team element in cycling.

My personal feelings though are, if every sport was tested equally, and anti-doping was given the same importance across the board, cycling and athletics would only be mid road in the doping tables -- worse than sports like rowing which is mainly amateur, but far better than likes of soccer, tennis, rugby, MMA, boxing and American football.

Cycling and athletics are the low hanging fruit for lazy sports journalists. You could argue that athletics and cycling have done themselves no favours commercially by making an attempt to find the dopers. The public prefers not to know.

The lesson from the US in terms of the NFL is definitely that most of the audience doesn't really care about doping, so don't devalue the product by talking about it. Sets a dangerous example for sports who actively go after it.

Chivito550

RobFowl wrote: »

Here's a list which is fairly comprehensive
https://www.jeandegribaldy.com/index.php?zone=pages/sean_kelly_et_jean_de_gribaldy

The differences in numbers are due to what you count
Pro Cycling Stats count "pro wins" whihc they consider as 1.1, 2.1 or higher.
Some count Crits which are often (but not always) fixed
Also then lower level wins

PS Cycling Archies list 269 ....
http://www.cyclingarchives.com/coureurfiche.php?coureurid=9041

Brilliant, thanks for this.

Weepsie

greenspurs wrote: »

Sexism ? Ahh come on fella ....
You have never made a joke ?
So you dont 'admire' anyone sports person with a fault ? Anyone ?
I dont think you will have many "fan clubs" to join so .....



I dont understand why someone that admires no one, would come on and use , and mention, someones personal life as a reason to discount the persons sporting ability and palmares !

Eeee hasnt dismissed the palmares or achievements. They are talking about the sportsperson.

It's not just the athletic achievement/ability and success it's the person. Clue is in the title.

You can lack admiration for someone if you don't fancy their character.



Anyway, some of the criteria for this seems to be success
O'Driscoll was mentioned earlier, but Rob Kearney is our most successful player.

I wouldn't be so dismissive of some gaa players either. Someone like Henry Shefflin fully deserves to be considered imo.

*Personal favourite gaa sportsperson is Maurice Fitzgerald. Never has anyone made football look so good or easy. Especially compared to the drudgery we get today.

greenspurs

The legendary time trial.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UGNHFFgcPQs

magicbastarder

another way of looking at it - what are the irish sporting moments which cross boundaries?
for example, i've sent the video of kelly chasing down moreno argentin in the (92?) milan-san remo to two non cycling friends (both with a general interest in sports) and both were utterly riveted. one of them admitted to cheering watching it.

Chivito550

magicbastarder wrote: »

another way of looking at it - what are the irish sporting moments which cross boundaries?
for example, i've sent the video of kelly chasing down moreno argentin in the (92?) milan-san remo to two non cycling friends (both with a general interest in sports) and both were utterly riveted. one of them admitted to cheering watching it.

Roche's TDF win would have crossed sporting boundaries far more than anything Kelly achieved. Kelly was a far better rider, with a far more impressive career, but Roche won the one event that every casual sports fan knows about. That must have been a bit frustrating for Kelly, although he doesn't strike me as somebody motivated by fame and acclaim anyway.

Wishbone Ash

Chivito550 wrote: »

... but Roche won the one event that every casual sports fan knows about....

I thought CJH won that?

Cape Clear

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

I thought CJH won that?

Correct Roche was his lead out man.

Macy0161

Chivito550 wrote: »

That must have been a bit frustrating for Kelly, although he doesn't strike me as somebody motivated by fame and acclaim anyway.

If it affected his earning potential maybe :pac:

I'd say he was more gutted by the Worlds than the Tour.

breezy1985

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

I thought CJH won that?

Well done.

Imagine seeing that now with Johnson's big head bobbing about on the podium next to Froome or someone

Mefistofelino

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

I thought CJH won that?

Later in '87, an American bald eagle ended up in Kerry. Once it had been nursed back to health, it was flown back to the US and CJH came to Shannon to see the eagle off (and get his face in the papers again) leading to one of Martyn Turner's finest moments:-

TheBlaaMan

Side story: A friend was involved in the finding of the Bald Eagle - it was a young bird that became exhausted and was recovered and then eventually repatriated. CJ fancied having a few eagles on Inishvickilaun which he then owned (I've no idea how he managed to buy one of the Blaskets, but I guess he knew a fella, who knew a fella.....). Anyways, CJ was involved in getting the OPW to investigate the reintroduction of White tailed Eagles (extirpated in late 18Century) onto his island and hence his connection with getting some PR via the Bald Eagle (different species, but when you're de Boss, what does that matter?)

Eventually, in the 00's, White tailed Eagles were introduced to Donegal and later on Kerry and Cork, with a few pairs now nesting and raising chicks, so I guess he was before his time..........

Anyway, back to King Kelly....

Finnrocco

I think the one race that Kelly was probably most annoyed about not winning was the Tour of Flanders.

It was possibly the race most suited to his abilities, he lived there and was considered a classic Flandrian hard man.

He finished second a few times, I think one year the headline was "Kelly beaten by a Pack of cheating wolves", as no one in the break would work with him and they let a lad ride off to the win, a bit like what Sagan faces these days.