Sean Kelly - list of victories

RobFowl

Chivito550 wrote: »

Nothing to do with being Irish for me. She has no links to doping. Simple as that.

There are countless foreign athletes I'd have the same opinion on as I do Sonia.

She had the same coach (Alan Storey) as Mo "Mo's Doorbell" Farah and another of his athletes (with whom he had an inappropriate relationship) had her room searched at the Olympics as was suspected of doping.


Not alleging anything, just pointing out you will struggle to find any athlete without some links even by association to doping.

hesker

Re the Roche v Kelly thing

As a young fella growing up through those times there was just no contest. Kelly was the King.

Wishbone Ash

Finnrocco wrote: »

I think the one race that Kelly was probably most annoyed about not winning was the Tour of Flanders.....

For a renowned 'hard man', I'd say he was pretty annoyed at being one of the 150 or so riders who abandoned LBL in 1980. He had only 20kms to go, but, in the atrocious weather conditions, he said he just couldn't take any more suffering.

dublin49

Kelly has 21 second places in TDF ,I think Sagan passed this mark recently which suggests he suffered more then most from the unwillingness of those around him to chase down a break;he was almost a full on sprinter at the start of his career.became one day classic specialist and could could win the general classifications in major races,apart from Merckx its hard to think of a comparable rider with such all round ability ,in modern times.

Bass Reeves

Roches '87 TDF win was a great achievement as well. He cycled for the Carrera Team an Italian sponsered team with a few Italian riders. Against Team orders he won the Giro early in June. The Carrera team did not cycle for him and Delgado attacked Roche in the mountains to gain about a 40 second lead.

Then came what is still considered one of the most famous stages in TDF. Delgado had over a minutes lead on the stage 5 Km to go. With 2.5 KM Roche was timed at 40 seconds back and then came the finish

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sQojh-wqL04

The following day one of the old pro's on the Carrera team I think it was the Belgian, Eddy Sheppers promised him he would be helping him all day. They marked Delgado to the top of the mountain and then on the long decent Roche took about 20 seconds back off Delgado leaving him a 20 second deficit going into Saturdays time trial. Roche reached speeds of over 60 mph on the decent.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pgEvzvydeXY


Also he was joint Green Jersey with Von Poppel going into Paris. Von poppel finished ahead of him in Paris to claim the Green Jersey

magicbastarder

there's a fairly recent radio one 'doc on one' episode about that. well worth a listen.

Tony EH

Ceepo wrote: »

Some if them results may have been Crits etc that might not be recorded is some list of stats.

Kelly has to the one of the greatest Irish sports person of all time. 5 times world no1, and 4 years in a row..
Absolutely a beast of a man.

Old enough to remember Sean Kelly and Stephen Roche.

Always preferred Sean for some reason.

Raymzor

TheBlaaMan wrote: »

Side story: A friend was involved in the finding of the Bald Eagle - it was a young bird that became exhausted and was recovered and then eventually repatriated. CJ fancied having a few eagles on Inishvickilaun which he then owned (I've no idea how he managed to buy one of the Blaskets, but I guess he knew a fella, who knew a fella.....). Anyways, CJ was involved in getting the OPW to investigate the reintroduction of White tailed Eagles (extirpated in late 18Century) onto his island and hence his connection with getting some PR via the Bald Eagle (different species, but when you're de Boss, what does that matter?)

Eventually, in the 00's, White tailed Eagles were introduced to Donegal and later on Kerry and Cork, with a few pairs now nesting and raising chicks, so I guess he was before his time..........

Anyway, back to King Kelly....

I always thought the BlaaMan was a Waterford connection. I guess it must be a west Kerry island connection instead 😜.

josip

All this Kelly talk has made me go watch la Discesa del Poggio again
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uqEnvZ1ynng&t=8m
I think I'm responsible for 925 of those YT views by now

harringtonp

cletus wrote: »

Two examples off the top of my head. I've seen Rory McIlroy listed in the top 20 of all time golfers, and Katie Taylor is definitely top 10 female boxers of all time.

Again, this is not to denigrate Sean Kelly, just to show the inherent biases

This is the first time Rory McIlroy has been mentioned in this thread which to a degree is surprising as he has won more golf majors than any other Irish golfer and had huge potential.

The "had" for me though is the key difference between him and Kelly. You always feel McIlroy has underachieved where as Kelly made the most of his talents. And this is a crucial aspect when putting a list together.

ozzy jr

DonegalBay wrote: »

How many Irish sportspeople would rank in the Top 10 of all time in their respective sports? .

Alex Higgins definitely.

Anyway back to Sean Kelly....

harringtonp

breezy1985 wrote: »

The fact that "the next Sean Kelly" is still a widely used term across Europe says it all for me.

Although it's probably gonna be finally replaced by " the next Peter Sagan" comments.
As for Ireland's greatest him and Taylor stand out for me as two athletes that became international legends in their sport so it puts them ahead for me.
I'm sure there is probably some jockey or golf lad who has done it but personal bias could never let me put them anywhere near a list of top athletes

Remember debating with a friend a few years back the merits of Sagan vs Kelly. He was firmly in the Kelly camp. For me the 3 world champs and incredible TDF record swayed it towards Sagan. This debate could go on and on...

Ceepo

RobFowl wrote: »

She had the same coach (Alan Storey) as Mo "Mo's Doorbell" Farah and another of his athletes (with whom he had an inappropriate relationship) had her room searched at the Olympics as was suspected of doping.


Not alleging anything, just pointing out you will struggle to find any athlete without some links even by association to doping.

The thing you need to remember is, when Mo was with the Alan Story group in London he wasn't much better that a "also ran" at world level. It wasn't until he went to Salazar who he was with at the the time of the doorbell incident that he improved.

dublin49

To those that feel the TDF success is the true measure of GOAT status bear in mind previous Multiple TDF winners like froome,Indurain,contador are rarely cited ahead of Sean Kelly by experts complying all time great lists,Hinault is generally placed ahead of Kelly as he could win TDFs and Classics.Lemond at times as well given he won World championships and TDFs but not many more riders are placed ahead of Kelly that we would recognize from the 1970s up to today,

Chivito550

RobFowl wrote: »

She had the same coach (Alan Storey) as Mo "Mo's Doorbell" Farah and another of his athletes (with whom he had an inappropriate relationship) had her room searched at the Olympics as was suspected of doping.


Not alleging anything, just pointing out you will struggle to find any athlete without some links even by association to doping.

Ah here, Farah was clearly clean under Storey. He made ridiculous improvements AFTER he left Storey, and moved to Salazar.

Who is the other athlete you are talking about? If it's Jo Pavey, she's far down the list of suspected drug cheats.

Chivito550

dublin49 wrote: »

Kelly has 21 second places in TDF ,I think Sagan passed this mark recently which suggests he suffered more then most from the unwillingness of those around him to chase down a break;he was almost a full on sprinter at the start of his career.became one day classic specialist and could could win the general classifications in major races,apart from Merckx its hard to think of a comparable rider with such all round ability ,in modern times.

Is it just me or is 5 TDF stage wins a very poor return for a rider of Kelly's calibre, particularly winning none after 1982?

Wishbone Ash

dublin49 wrote: »

To those that feel the TDF success is the true measure of GOAT status bear in mind previous Multiple TDF winners like froome,Indurain,contador are rarely cited ahead of Sean Kelly by experts complying all time great lists...

Well said. Indurain specialised in time trials. I'm open to correction but I can't recall him winning many standard stages and did he ever win any one day classics?

Chiappucci, on the other hand, was a terrible time trialist which makes his TDF results seem worse than they would otherwise be.

Chivito550 wrote: »

Is it just me or is 5 TDF stage wins a very poor return for a rider of Kelly's calibre, particularly winning none after 1982?

He was under pressure to win intermediate points and, as a result, sacrificed stage wins.

RobFowl

Chivito550 wrote: »

Ah here, Farah was clearly clean under Storey. He made ridiculous improvements AFTER he left Storey, and moved to Salazar.

Who is the other athlete you are talking about? If it's Jo Pavey, she's far down the list of suspected drug cheats.

Mo may have been cleaner under Storey...
Karen Reed was the athlete who had her room searched by the BOC as they thought she was doping.
As I said don't ever pretend anyone a
In top level sport doesnt have links to doping even if they themselves are "clean".

Cape Clear

harringtonp wrote: »

This is the first time Rory McIlroy has been mentioned in this thread which to a degree is surprising as he has won more golf majors than any other Irish golfer and had huge potential.

The "had" for me though is the key difference between him and Kelly. You always feel McIlroy has underachieved where as Kelly made the most of his talents. And this is a crucial aspect when putting a list together.

McIroy seems to peak for periods of time where he will picks up a series of big wins but this can be followed by months of poor performance. Unquestionable top of the pile when it comes to Golf on the island of Ireland a good bit ahead of Harrington & Mc Dowell.

RobFowl

Very hard to compare different sports.
I am an unapologetic Kelly fan and have been since I started getting into cycling in 1983...
Outside of cycling I do think Padraig Harrington is one of the greats, Rory is better though and still a good 10 years at the top potentially.
Boxing has a number of candidates. Barry McGuigan, Dave McAuley, Carl Frampton all hit the top as Pros and Hard to see past Katie Taylor as potentially the best womens boxer of all time.
Runners, we've had a few and of them all I would say Sonia is the best and closest to Kelly in terms of range (800m to Marathons and track as well as cross country).
If I had to choose I'd say Rory McIroy, Sonia O Sullivan, Joey Dunlop, Katie Taylor, Sean Kelly and Roy Keane are all at a level and its really personal preference who you think is the best.
King Kelly for me all the way .....

Finnrocco

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

Well said. Indurain specialised in time trials. I'm open to correction but I can't recall him winning many standard stages and did he ever win any one day classics?

Chiappucci, on the other hand, was a terrible time trialist which makes his TDF results seem worse than they would otherwise be.

He was under pressure to win intermediate points and, as a result, sacrificed stage wins.

I think Indurain could have done more but he focussed on the Tour.

He was a powerful time triallist who could climb, I imagine he could have won Flanders, Roubaix, Amstel, Liege type of races if he tried to. He was close in the Worlds and there was one time he led out a stage of the Giro with all the sprinters there and I think only 1 or 2 got by him.

There was also the time in the Tour where he rode away from the peleton, only Bruyneel could get his wheel and he towed him for about 30 k to the finish, putting time into the whole bunch. Think it was into Liege.

Powerful rider who could have won more, but I suppose 5 Tours will do.

RobFowl

Finnrocco wrote: »

Powerful rider who could have won more, but I suppose 5 Tours will do.

And 2 Giros, a world TT title and Olympic Gold.....

breezy1985

harringtonp wrote: »

This is the first time Rory McIlroy has been mentioned in this thread which to a degree is surprising as he has won more golf majors than any other Irish golfer and had huge potential.

The "had" for me though is the key difference between him and Kelly. You always feel McIlroy has underachieved where as Kelly made the most of his talents. And this is a crucial aspect when putting a list together.

Also one fella rode bicycles over the Alps and Ardennes cobbles and the other hit a little ball round a field

Bass Reeves

RobFowl wrote: »

Very hard to compare different sports.
I am an unapologetic Kelly fan and have been since I started getting into cycling in 1983...
Outside of cycling I do think Padraig Harrington is one of the greats, Rory is better though and still a good 10 years at the top potentially.
Boxing has a number of candidates. Barry McGuigan, Dave McAuley, Carl Frampton all hit the top as Pros and Hard to see past Katie Taylor as potentially the best womens boxer of all time.
Runners, we've had a few and of them all I would say Sonia is the best and closest to Kelly in terms of range (800m to Marathons and track as well as cross country).
If I had to choose I'd say Rory McIroy, Sonia O Sullivan, Joey Dunlop, Katie Taylor, Sean Kelly and Roy Keane are all at a level and its really personal preference who you think is the best.
King Kelly for me all the way .....

I think with athletics many forget about Ronnie Delaney. Olympic gold medalist. 7th man to run sub four minute mile. For a long period he held the record fir most sub 4 minute miles. As well he was virtually unbeatable indoors. He broke the indoor mile record 3 times in 1961.

You have to remember at the time amateur status was more strictly enforced than in the 70's&80's and runners from smaller countries found it harder to remain in the sport after college.

While many may consider a hockey only has to ride the horse they need to be tremendous athletes. They have to adhere to body weight limits set back in the 1800's when Tinder's were smaller and lighter but maintain the strength to control a ton of flesh going up to 40mph and with jump jockeys take him over fences as well. AP McCoy is acknowledged as the greatest modern jump jockeys and considered the all time no 1.

It very hard to judge team players because of the structure they compete in. As well with Irish sport you have to consider that GAA match Ames a huge swat of team players who could make it at other sports.

In boxing everybody forgets about the legend that was Steve Collins double world champion and probably lead the way for professional boxers from Ireland.

Kelly, McCoy, Delaney, Collins and the legend that was Christy Ring are my top 5. And I am not a Cork man and come from a football county.

Weepsie

Bass Reeves wrote: »

I
In boxing everybody forgets about the legend that was Steve Collins double world champion and probably lead the way for professional boxers from Ireland.

.

Battered his wife. Doesn't deserve to be in the conversation. Complete scumbag. People have forgotten about him for a reason

breezy1985

Weepsie wrote: »

Battered his wife. Doesn't deserve to be in the conversation. Complete scumbag. People have forgotten about him for a reason

Sure so did Sean Connery but we think he's great

Macy0161

Finnrocco wrote: »

I think the one race that Kelly was probably most annoyed about not winning was the Tour of Flanders.

Overall, I meant in the context of Roche's 87 season.

In his book he admitted doing a deal in Flanders for help in Roubaix (which he won). iirc his logic was you can win Flanders with tactics, and there'd be other years, but you needed luck and help in Roubaix.

LCD

When comparing the greatest Irish sportswomen & men of all time I am surprised the social aspect never comes into it.

Take for example Henry Shefflin (or any GAA great) their ability is unsurpassed, however they lived in this small community of local club & county their whole lives. They were always looked up to from when showing ability as a teenager.

A footballer did have to leave home but went to England, which was English speaking & was relatively inexpensive to get home from.

However look at Kelly, Roche or any english speaking pro in the 70s/80s/90s, they had to leave their families & move to a foreign county, communication was a huge issue, the cost of calling home was phenomenal let alone flying home. Also they were nobodies', they weren't getting pats on the back every Sunday morning after mass.

I appreciate many of our best athletics athletes had to go to America for scholarships, where they were further from home but didn't have the language barriers & there was some sort of assistance from the colleges.

Cape Clear

Who'd be on the Nicest or Biggest Prick Of All Time list?

breezy1985

Cape Clear wrote: »

Who'd be on the Nicest or Biggest Prick Of All Time list?

Roy Keane for the double