Sean Kelly - list of victories

breezy1985

Macy0161 wrote: »

I think in Europe it's pretty mixed in terms of socio-economic class. For the examples above you also have Guillaume Martin, with his masters degree in philosophy and Tom Dumoulin who's dad is a biologist and went to college but decided he'd rather stick to cycling (i.e. it was a choice not an escape route). Even Bardet has an MBA.

Cycling's biggest issue is now lack of cultural diversity. I know he's not everyone on here's favourite, but there was an interesting Eurosport podcast with Wiggins and Mani Arthur of the Black Cyclists Network discussing the issue far better than I could.

Martin's parents were teachers and although I don't know his background it's utter snobbery to assume he is posh or not working class because he has a degree. He also grew up in the countryside as did Bardet which is what I was getting at earlier

Chivito550

breezy1985 wrote: »

Firstly athletics is a huge range of sport so you need to narrow it down to track and field for a fair comparison. I've been to the world championships and it was extremely well attended and I've also been to the TdF and WC in cycling that were also very well attended and that was in the UK so not even the heartland.

Take a school of 100 kids in almost any country in the world and ask how many watch athletics or participate outside school or ask em can they name any tracks and field star outside Bolt and very few will say yes to any of the 3. People are not kicking doors down to join athletics clubs with he exception of the diehard countries same as boxing or cycling. All of them are played in every country and have well attended major events but are nowhere in the national conversation in most countries

I never said it was. I'm saying athletics is a global sport, which it is, as it's got world class competitors in every part of the world. This is a fact, not an opinion.

I never mentioned popularity. The only sport popular around the globe is football.

Athletics is far more popular on a global scale than likes of rugby. Most kids around the world don't even know what rugby is. Every kid runs and jumps.

breezy1985

Chivito550 wrote: »

I never said it was. I'm saying athletics is a global sport, which it is, as it's got world class competitors in every part of the world. This is a fact, not an opinion.

I never mentioned popularity. The only sport popular around the globe is football.

Athletics is far more popular on a global scale than likes of rugby. Most kids around the world don't even know what rugby is. Every kid runs and jumps.

Again athletics is not a sport so you can't compare it to rugby you would have to compare it to ball sports. Pick an actual sport and tell me all about how it has world class competitors all over the world. It's easy have competitors from all over the world when you are lumping all the sports from the World Championships in together

Chivito550

breezy1985 wrote: »

Again athletics is not a sport so you can't compare it to rugby you would have to compare it to ball sports. Pick an actual sport and tell me all about how it has world class competitors all over the world. It's easy have competitors from all over the world when you are lumping all the sports from the World Championships in together

News to me that athletics isn't a sport!!

100m, 1500m long jump are disciplines, the same way the Individual persuit, elimination race and road time trial are disciplines.

Athletics is a sport the same way cycling is a sport.

What a ridiculous suggestion. Athletics is recognised as the name of the sport by the IOC.

breezy1985

Chivito550 wrote: »

News to me that athletics isn't a sport!!

100m, 1500m long jump are disciplines, the same way the Individual persuit, elimination race and road time trial are disciplines.

Athletics is a sport the same way cycling is a sport.

What a ridiculous suggestion. Athletics is recognised as the name of the sport by the IOC.

Pursuit, elimination and road all involve a bike and the only ones I would limp together are road, track and cyclo-cross I would never say to someone that the US and Canada are big cycling nations because they are the best at freestyle BMX

I don't see how running fast and throwing a disk far or using a pole to jump high are the same sport whatever the governing body say

Chivito550

breezy1985 wrote: »

Again athletics is not a sport so you can't compare it to rugby you would have to compare it to ball sports. Pick an actual sport and tell me all about how it has world class competitors all over the world. It's easy have competitors from all over the world when you are lumping all the sports from the World Championships in together

So I've narrowed it down to just running events from 100m to marathon, including hurdles and steeplechase. I've removed all walk, field and multi events, just to highlight how many different countries won a medal at the 2019 World Championships:

Europe

Bosnia
Poland
Authorised Neutral Athletes (Russia)
France
Spain
Norway
Great Britain
Belgium
Switzerland
Netherlands
Germany

Americas

USA
Canada
Ecuador
Bahamas
Colombia

Africa

Kenya
Algeria
Morocco
Ethiopia
Uganda
Namibia
Ivory Coast

Asia

Qatar
Japan
Bahrain


Running is a truly global discipline. If I was bothered looking at the top 8 in each event, the number of countries would explode.

Now if you want to call 100m a sport, then you will have to call the Keirin or the road time trial a specific sport. And then if you do that, then cycling simply can't be called a sport. You can't have it both ways.

Only a fool would try argue that cycling is more global than athletics. It stands to reason that it wouldn't be, given the costs are much higher.

It still has very widespread representation across the globe, but it is not global. It is non-existent in Africa and Asia.

Chivito550

breezy1985 wrote: »

Pursuit, elimination and road all involve a bike and the only ones I would limp together are road, track and cyclo-cross I would never say to someone that the US and Canada are big cycling nations because they are the best at freestyle BMX

I don't see how running fast and throwing a disk far or using a pole to jump high are the same sport whatever the governing body say

Maybe if you were involved in the sport, in the technical side of things, the coaching, the specific training etc, you would see a ridiculous amount of overlap between all those power based athletic events you have just mentioned.

TheBlaaMan

Chivito550 wrote: »

So I've narrowed it down to just running events from 100m to marathon, including hurdles and steeplechase. I've removed all walk, field and multi events, just to highlight how many different countries won a medal at the 2019 World Championships:

Europe

Bosnia
Poland
Authorised Neutral Athletes (Russia)
France
Spain
Norway
Great Britain
Belgium
Switzerland
Netherlands
Germany

Americas

USA
Canada
Ecuador
Bahamas
Colombia

Africa

Kenya
Algeria
Morocco
Ethiopia
Uganda
Namibia
Ivory Coast

Asia

Qatar
Japan
Bahrain


.

Acknowledging post 151, exactly which of the above events are on Sean Kellys palmarés ?

breezy1985

Chivito550 wrote: »

Maybe if you were involved in the sport, in the technical side of things, the coaching, the specific training etc, you would see a ridiculous amount of overlap between all those power based athletic events you have just mentioned.

That overlap most likely exists across a number of unconnected sports too. You always hear about how top athletes could have also been this or that

a_squirrelman

:rolleyes:

So anyway, love Sean Kelly, he's the business, and great to listen to.

breezy1985

Chivito550 wrote: »

So I've narrowed it down to just running events from 100m to marathon, including hurdles and steeplechase. I've removed all walk, field and multi events, just to highlight how many different countries won a medal at the 2019 World Championships:

Europe

Bosnia
Poland
Authorised Neutral Athletes (Russia)
France
Spain
Norway
Great Britain
Belgium
Switzerland
Netherlands
Germany

Americas

USA
Canada
Ecuador
Bahamas
Colombia

Africa

Kenya
Algeria
Morocco
Ethiopia
Uganda
Namibia
Ivory Coast

Asia

Qatar
Japan
Bahrain


Running is a truly global discipline. If I was bothered looking at the top 8 in each event, the number of countries would explode.

Now if you want to call 100m a sport, then you will have to call the Keirin or the road time trial a specific sport. And then if you do that, then cycling simply can't be called a sport. You can't have it both ways.

Only a fool would try argue that cycling is more global than athletics. It stands to reason that it wouldn't be, given the costs are much higher.

It still has very widespread representation across the globe, but it is not global. It is non-existent in Africa and Asia.

I'm not trying to say one is more global than the other I'm saying they are both minority sports and cycling is not non existent in Africa or Asia try do a bit of googling of Keirin in Japan for example or cycling in South Africa or Eritrea

Chivito550

breezy1985 wrote: »

I'm not trying to say one is more global than the other I'm saying they are both minority sports and cycling is not non existent in Africa or Asia try do a bit of googling of Keirin in Japan for example or cycling in South Africa or Eritrea

The World Athletics Championships is the third biggest sporting event in the world in terms of TV viewers (not in terms of spectator attendance though, it would probably be the Rugby World Cup based on that parameter because of the 48 games).

I wouldn't call that minority. If that's minority then everything else is, but football.

Fair point on Keirin, I had forgotten the origins of that event.

I don't see a whole lot of Africans and Asians in the peleton however.

Chivito550

a_squirrelman wrote: »

:rolleyes:

So anyway, love Sean Kelly, he's the business, and great to listen to.

I think he's a fascinating person to listen to on commentary. He gives great insights, and comes across as a bit of a character. Love listening to him and hate when they switch over to the other commentary team during the Tour.

breezy1985

Chivito550 wrote: »

The World Athletics Championships is the third biggest sporting event in the world in terms of TV viewers (not in terms of spectator attendance though, it would probably be the Rugby World Cup based on that parameter because of the 48 games).

I wouldn't call that minority. If that's minority then everything else is, but football.

Fair point on Keirin, I had forgotten the origins of that event.

I don't see a whole lot of Africans and Asians in the peleton however.

Again not claiming one versus the other. I'm quite content with cycling being a minority sport and although I would like more people of colour involved I have no interest is the attempts it has made to go global as I will take the Tour d'Ain any day over the Tour of Beijing.

How high up rugby is in those figures shows how daft they are as rugby is nowhere near a global sport even in London most of the population didn't even know the rugby world cup was on in London in 15 when I lived there. Go way back and I did say most of these sports have 1 event that's popular so ok athletics has 2 that transcend the sport

breezy1985

Anyone know if Kelly has any other sporting achievements like a junior B under 14s county hurling medal or something ?

RobFowl

breezy1985 wrote: »

Anyone know if Kelly has any other sporting achievements like a junior B under 14s county hurling medal or something ?

Just cycling for the King.

dublin49

I find listening to Kelly he is very loathe to talk about himself and his own experiences unless pushed by Carlton which is a pity given the wealth of stories he must have ,although I suppose oldies like me will remember the names from his time where as newer generations will class riders of the past they way we viewed heroes of the 50's and early 60's back in the day..

Chivito550

breezy1985 wrote: »

Again not claiming one versus the other. I'm quite content with cycling being a minority sport and although I would like more people of colour involved I have no interest is the attempts it has made to go global as I will take the Tour d'Ain any day over the Tour of Beijing.

How high up rugby is in those figures shows how daft they are as rugby is nowhere near a global sport even in London most of the population didn't even know the rugby world cup was on in London in 15 when I lived there. Go way back and I did say most of these sports have 1 event that's popular so ok athletics has 2 that transcend the sport

Rugby World Cup is miles down the list in terms of TV viewers. It's high up in terms of spectators at the event, as it has 48 games and goes on for ages. Most sports' world championships go on for a week.

TV viewers is a far better measurement of global popularity.

2 Wheels Good

Unfortunately it's a bit of luck in cycling like a lot of the less supported sports. Sean was extremely driven and had the opportunity to race. Dan Curtin in Kanturk has given lads the opportunity to prove themselves.
Charly Wegelius who wrote Domestique had a PE teacher who let him go off training on the bike instead of doing PE, who knows if he'd have made it otherwise.
The fact that Sean and Stephen made it to the top in the 80s is in some ways even more credit to their talent and determination considering how hard it was to break through.
As for Sean winning, I think even he's admitted he could have focused better on certain races so he might even have won the tour.

Chivito550

2 Wheels Good wrote: »

Unfortunately it's a bit of luck in cycling like a lot of the less supported sports. Sean was extremely driven and had the opportunity to race. Dan Curtin in Kanturk has given lads the opportunity to prove themselves.
Charly Wegelius who wrote Domestique had a PE teacher who let him go off training on the bike instead of doing PE, who knows if he'd have made it otherwise.
The fact that Sean and Stephen made it to the top in the 80s is in some ways even more credit to their talent and determination considering how hard it was to break through.
As for Sean winning, I think even he's admitted he could have focused better on certain races so he might even have won the tour.

Even forgetting about the drugs for a minute, this was one reason Lance Armstrong couldn't be considered an all-time great. He barely raced all year, other than the Tour. How many Tours would Merckx have won if he did that sort of carry on?

Armstrong is responsible for damaging the rest of the cycling calendar. His attitude undermined all the other events, and pushed the Tour to be seen by the general public as the only thing that mattered.

breezy1985

dublin49 wrote: »

I find listening to Kelly he is very loathe to talk about himself and his own experiences unless pushed by Carlton which is a pity given the wealth of stories he must have ,although I suppose oldies like me will remember the names from his time where as newer generations will class riders of the past they way we viewed heroes of the 50's and early 60's back in the day..

For a commentator Sean is oddly loathe to talk full stop unless pushed

Chivito550

breezy1985 wrote: »

For a commentator Sean is oddly loathe to talk full stop unless pushed

I think there's something quite likeable about his style. Not a big talkers, but any time he talks it is pure sense and he has your attention.

Macy0161

breezy1985 wrote: »

Martin's parents were teachers and although I don't know his background it's utter snobbery to assume he is posh or not working class because he has a degree. He also grew up in the countryside as did Bardet which is what I was getting at earlier

That wasn't my intention at all. My logic was that cycling was seen, rightly or wrongly, as a working class sport and a means to escape (similar to how boxing was perceived in urban environments). Martin obviously chose cycling rather than it being a lack of an alternative option, which would've been the stereotype of the 50's/ 60's even into the 70's.

I actually think any sport is really like that in Europe anymore. No one is coming out of the mines at 14 like Stablinski to win bike races.

breezy1985

Chivito550 wrote: »

Even forgetting about the drugs for a minute, this was one reason Lance Armstrong couldn't be considered an all-time great. He barely raced all year, other than the Tour. How many Tours would Merckx have won if he did that sort of carry on?

Armstrong is responsible for damaging the rest of the cycling calendar. His attitude undermined all the other events, and pushed the Tour to be seen by the general public as the only thing that mattered.

Casual cycling fans and and new to the sport Lance fans never understood this. They think everyone hates him for cheating and turned a blind eye to others but it was his lack of respect for the sports history and his overtly American win at all costs in regards to the Tour that really done it

Macy0161

breezy1985 wrote: »

Casual cycling fans and and new to the sport Lance fans never understood this. They think everyone hates him for cheating and turned a blind eye to others but it was his lack of respect for the sports history and his overtly American win at all costs in regards to the Tour that really done it

I just hate him because he's a dick! Lemond gets a lot of stick for this too, but always raced the classics, and put in decent performances even in roubaix, as well as regularly doing the Giro.

breezy1985

Macy0161 wrote: »

That wasn't my intention at all. My logic was that cycling was seen, rightly or wrongly, as a working class sport and a means to escape (similar to how boxing was perceived in urban environments). Martin obviously chose cycling rather than it being a lack of an alternative option, which would've been the stereotype of the 50's/ 60's even into the 70's.

I actually think any sport is really like that in Europe anymore. No one is coming out of the mines at 14 like Stablinski to win bike races.

Ya I get ya no one is using sport as the only chance at a job and a good life. Kellys choice was partly down to bricklaying boring him to tears and thank god for us he felt that way same goes for Billy Connolly who realized early on that he would always be a s*** welder.

As for Martin though did he really have other options in life given his degree was in philosophy : )

dublin49

the point is well made about the uninformed spectator exclusively focusing on the tour ,I was that soldier for awhile ,I well remember coverage of the tour and riders like Tony Rominger,Laurence Jalabert,Charley Mottet and others would be named checked as possible winners and I would wonder why they were even being mentioned.Invariably the camera would focus on them suffering in the Alps or Pyrenees and that would be the end of them for another year.

breezy1985

dublin49 wrote: »

the point is well made about the uninformed spectator exclusively focusing on the tour ,I was that soldier for awhile ,I well remember coverage of the tour and riders like Tony Rominger,Laurence Jalabert,Charley Mottet and others would be named checked as possible winners and I would wonder why they were even being mentioned.Invariably the camera would focus on them suffering in the Alps or Pyrenees and that would be the end of them for another year.

We all start as that guy. Kelly knew that himself and has said that after seeing what Roche winning the Tour done for him Kelly went more GC focused later in his career

dublin49

I suppose any debate around Sean Kelly comes down to the fact he is undoubtedly in top 3 all round cyclists,probably of all time ,can anybody name a cyclist in the last 50 years who could win bunch sprints and also general classifications that included tough mountain stages,not sure about Merckx but very few others,it also true in my opinion if the measure is solely Grand Tour riders he does not figure in the top 50 riders.

breezy1985

dublin49 wrote: »

I suppose any debate around Sean Kelly comes down to the fact he is undoubtedly in top 3 all round cyclists,probably of all time ,can anybody name a cyclist in the last 50 years who could win bunch sprints and also general classifications that included tough mountain stages,not sure about Merckx but very few others,it also true in my opinion if the measure is solely Grand Tour riders he does not figure in the top 50 riders.

The closest since I started watching is Valverde but it's impossible to compare really as the days of the true all rounder are well over for a multitude of reasons

Macy0161

dublin49 wrote: »

it also true in my opinion if the measure is solely Grand Tour riders he does not figure in the top 50 riders.

Even just taking GC, multiple top 10's in Grand Tours (including 4th and 5th in Tour), a podium as well as a win at the Vuelta. I think a case could be made (as the points jerseys would have to come into the conversation).

On top of all the week long stage race GC's throughout his career. He'd be in with a shout of Top 50 imo!

Frankie Machine

The words of Robin Magowan some might find a bit on the patronising side, but the important kernel remains -

"It is customary to talk of Kelly as quintessentially an Irish rider. For my part, though, I think it helps to place Kelly better as a cyclist to see him as the last of the Flemish riders. This is usually a title associated with the post-war rider, Briek Schotte who has become appropriately enough the man in day-to-day charge of the de Gribaldy teams. As exemplified by Schotte it stood for a certain type of mentality, willing to suffer, narrowly focussed, and hard, hard, hard. Kelly had all this in him from his Irish small-farm background: the outside loo; the dogs that have to be chained before you can step from your car; the one career possible, as a bricklayer on a construction site, stretching away and away into the grey mists. On the positive side, along with the self-reliance, came a physical strength that even by peasant standards is impressive. In a profession of iron wills, there is no one harder."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sean_Kelly_(cyclist)

dublin49

I think it was Robert Millar who said of Kelly,there were faster,tougher,smarter riders than Kelly .and I am paraphrasing here,but none pulled all these qualities together like Kelly and maintained a consistent high standard from March to Oct ,year after year for more than 10 years,

Gallant_JJ

redlead wrote: »

People in Ireland don't have a clue how great Kelly was. One of the greatest of all time in a global sport and Newstalk didn't think he warranted a top 4 from Waterford because aren't all cyclists on drugs. It's subjective but he's Irelands greatest ever athlete in my opinion. I think a big part of it is that while sports like running and cycling are super popular participation sports, most people that do them aren't interested in them to compete in races etc and so the numbers don't translate to interest in the professional sports as much.

It will be interesting to hear the Newstalk lads and the sports media generally fawn over Dustin Johnston all this week coming, despite 3 failed doping tests on his CV.

breezy1985

Gallant_JJ wrote: »

It will be interesting to hear the Newstalk lads and the sports media generally fawn over Dustin Johnston all this week coming, despite 3 failed doping tests on his CV.

Jeysus imagine doping for golf

TheBlaaMan

Gallant_JJ wrote: »

It will be interesting to hear the Newstalk lads and the sports media generally fawn over Dustin Johnston all this week coming, despite 3 failed doping tests on his CV.

Golf is interesting in its doping culture and the sport seems to bring out the most fan-boy like of journalists who specialise in reporting it and only asking really soft questions. The old reliable approach of fawning over the players to ensure that they maintain access is particularly nauseating at times and we have a few examples in this country. I guess its like so many other sports, but it tends to get very easy ride in regard to the use of PEDs.

Ceepo

Gallant_JJ wrote: »

It will be interesting to hear the Newstalk lads and the sports media generally fawn over Dustin Johnston all this week coming, despite 3 failed doping tests on his CV.

But sure it wasn't performance enhancing and he wasn't really banned, as the PGA don't release any information.
He just took a break for a while

Ceepo

TheBlaaMan wrote: »

Golf is interesting in its doping culture and the sport seems to bring out the most fan-boy like of journalists who specialise in reporting it and only asking really soft questions. The old reliable approach of fawning over the players to ensure that they maintain access is particularly nauseating at times and we have a few examples in this country. I guess its like so many other sports, but it tends to get very easy ride in regard to the use of PEDs.

Which could be clearly seen when Tiger wasn't questioned about his 10 on the par 3 12th today

Macy0161

TheBlaaMan wrote: »

I guess its like so many other sports, but it tends to get very easy ride in regard to the use of PEDs.

Same as football, too much money to be made with access to really question. But in the eyes of punters, that makes these sports clean as opposed to "dirty" cycling.

In an Irish context, OTB are particularly irritating, as they'll kill any good cycling news with a doping interview. This year, a few days after Sam winning green they had Whittle on discussing nothing more than the history of UAE's management - as much actual evidence from this years tour, as Trumps stolen election claims.

breezy1985

Macy0161 wrote: »

Same as football, too much money to be made with access to really question. But in the eyes of punters, that makes these sports clean as opposed to "dirty" cycling.

In an Irish context, OTB are particularly irritating, as they'll kill any good cycling news with a doping interview. This year, a few days after Sam winning green they had Whittle on discussing nothing more than the history of UAE's management - as much actual evidence from this years tour, as Trumps stolen election claims.

OTB only want to bother with a small few sports and the presenters are almost insulting in their obvious boredom when they have to talk about something.

Is off the ball also the one that has that cycling "expert" that wears a hulk mask?

CramCycle

breezy1985 wrote: »

OTB only want to bother with a small few sports and the presenters are almost insulting in their obvious boredom when they have to talk about something.

Is off the ball also the one that has that cycling "expert" that wears a hulk mask?

Yea, really passionate about anti doping to the point that he can't enjoy anything. I used to follow him on twitter but it was just relentless. Rather than wait for the day he accused the local U12 team of mass doping I decided I would go back to ignorance and enjoying sport. I actually can't remember his name now.

Sean Kelly was a great athlete, wonderful to watch, his personality was hit or miss. He reminded me of my uncle where everything was matter of fact. his car/wife/bike comment, either a joke or a realistic view of the world that many practical people had back then. I would have many comments about me from my partner, I actually took it as the jokes between couples that many of us would have.

My own partner would have put me at the back of a similar list in regards a few things, I don't take it personally and I wouldn't be sure if she is joking or not.

Like alot of things, not liking the man doesn't take away from what an athlete he was.

its like Paul Kimmage, I dislike the man immensely, but that doesn't take away from the fact that he is a great writer.

As a sportperson, I can see why some don't like him, I took such comments in the time and meaning I think they were intended. As an athlete and a strategist though, incredible.

Bass Reeves

Kelly paved the way for all the other Irish cyclists. He was so good that teams looked at other Irish cyclists. Roche and Early might never got the opportunities that they got if Kelly did not plough the ground ahead of them. He also helped them probably directly by giving them advice. If Roche had been ahead of Kelly he have advised him of the importance of winning the TDF. If he had Kelly might have concentrated on the grand tours and won two or three tour's. But the money from being the greatest one day and mini tour rider ever was hard for him to pass by as a young man that came from very ordinary circumstances.

magicbastarder

another of the irish greats was a chap i used to see cycling around the area here without realising who he is - Se O'Hanlon.
IIRC he took the lead of the 1965 Ras on the first stage and no one else held the lead at all until the 1968 Ras.

harringtonp

breezy1985 wrote: »

Jeysus imagine doping for golf

I wouldn't have believed it 30 years ago when many of the big guys (by big I mean fat) were leading players in the sport.

But it was changed by Woods where extra length meant easier to score lower.

These days gym work is part of the routine for most top golfers. And when you get widespread gym work in top level sport you're going to get some element of doping.

And in this regard rugby amazes me. As a sport it completely lends itself to all sorts of substance abuse, the biggest mystery for me is why you never read anything about it.

In general, I like reading David Walshs articles but it irks me that the only cycling that appears in the Sunday Times is his drug related articles. AFAIK this isn't sport and should appear in the main section of the paper rather than the sports supplement. Rugby is one of his sports too but he never writes about substance abuse there...

breezy1985

harringtonp wrote: »

I

But it was changed by Woods where extra length meant easier to score lower.

Oh behave

Seve OB

Roadtoad wrote: »

The Chairman of the Boards deserves a shoutout on this thread too.

why? it was supposed to be a thread about Sean Kellys victories?

I don't think I have ever seen a thread derailed so much from the second post. Pretty terrible really, I came to see what Sean Kellys victory career was like, but it turned into a bloodbath debating who is the Irish sports person ever. Jockeys, boxers, runners, golfers, drugs, cheats, blah blah, I mean talk about off topic! I could nearly forgive the comments about where Kelly ranks in the world of cycling because at least they had the subject of the thread in mind when posting, but I think there was only one subsequent post which referred to the actual topic in 14 pages.

poor form.

Chivito550 wrote: »

Roche's TDF win would have crossed sporting boundaries far more than anything Kelly achieved. Kelly was a far better rider, with a far more impressive career, but Roche won the one event that every casual sports fan knows about. That must have been a bit frustrating for Kelly, although he doesn't strike me as somebody motivated by fame and acclaim anyway.

Doubt it as a short time after le Tour '87 the World Championship was on where I think Kelly came third which was not by design as I believe he was out to win it. But I always remember one thing from that race seeing how delighted Kelly was to see Roche cross the line in first place

Frankie Machine

Seve OB wrote: »

why? it was supposed to be a thread about Sean Kellys victories?

I don't think I have ever seen a thread derailed so much from the second post. Pretty terrible really, I came to see what Sean Kellys victory career was like, but it turned into a bloodbath debating who is the Irish sports person ever. Jockeys, boxers, runners, golfers, drugs, cheats, blah blah, I mean talk about off topic! I could nearly forgive the comments about where Kelly ranks in the world of cycling because at least they had the subject of the thread in mind when posting, but I think there was only one subsequent post which referred to the actual topic in 14 pages.

poor form.

Absolutely agree.

A thread ruined by all that, and worse, by irrelevant craptalk about the man's private and family life.

Anyway, here's Kelly's palmares according to a Jean de Gribaldy site...

https://www.jeandegribaldy.com/index.php?zone=pages/sean_kelly_et_jean_de_gribaldy

Amazing stuff.

Finnrocco

Have a look at this:

https://www.procyclingstats.com/rider/sean-kelly/1984

He was at his peak.

Large bottle small glass

Finnrocco wrote: »

Have a look at this:

https://www.procyclingstats.com/rider/sean-kelly/1984

He was at his peak.

April 84 results would have been a successful career for many riders

Finnrocco

Have a look at the all time rankings on Procycling stats.

https://www.procyclingstats.com/rankings/me/special/all-time

You can while away an hour flicking through that.