Sean Kelly - list of victories

breezy1985

dublin49 wrote: »

the point is well made about the uninformed spectator exclusively focusing on the tour ,I was that soldier for awhile ,I well remember coverage of the tour and riders like Tony Rominger,Laurence Jalabert,Charley Mottet and others would be named checked as possible winners and I would wonder why they were even being mentioned.Invariably the camera would focus on them suffering in the Alps or Pyrenees and that would be the end of them for another year.

We all start as that guy. Kelly knew that himself and has said that after seeing what Roche winning the Tour done for him Kelly went more GC focused later in his career

dublin49

I suppose any debate around Sean Kelly comes down to the fact he is undoubtedly in top 3 all round cyclists,probably of all time ,can anybody name a cyclist in the last 50 years who could win bunch sprints and also general classifications that included tough mountain stages,not sure about Merckx but very few others,it also true in my opinion if the measure is solely Grand Tour riders he does not figure in the top 50 riders.

breezy1985

dublin49 wrote: »

I suppose any debate around Sean Kelly comes down to the fact he is undoubtedly in top 3 all round cyclists,probably of all time ,can anybody name a cyclist in the last 50 years who could win bunch sprints and also general classifications that included tough mountain stages,not sure about Merckx but very few others,it also true in my opinion if the measure is solely Grand Tour riders he does not figure in the top 50 riders.

The closest since I started watching is Valverde but it's impossible to compare really as the days of the true all rounder are well over for a multitude of reasons

Macy0161

dublin49 wrote: »

it also true in my opinion if the measure is solely Grand Tour riders he does not figure in the top 50 riders.

Even just taking GC, multiple top 10's in Grand Tours (including 4th and 5th in Tour), a podium as well as a win at the Vuelta. I think a case could be made (as the points jerseys would have to come into the conversation).

On top of all the week long stage race GC's throughout his career. He'd be in with a shout of Top 50 imo!

Frankie Machine

The words of Robin Magowan some might find a bit on the patronising side, but the important kernel remains -

"It is customary to talk of Kelly as quintessentially an Irish rider. For my part, though, I think it helps to place Kelly better as a cyclist to see him as the last of the Flemish riders. This is usually a title associated with the post-war rider, Briek Schotte who has become appropriately enough the man in day-to-day charge of the de Gribaldy teams. As exemplified by Schotte it stood for a certain type of mentality, willing to suffer, narrowly focussed, and hard, hard, hard. Kelly had all this in him from his Irish small-farm background: the outside loo; the dogs that have to be chained before you can step from your car; the one career possible, as a bricklayer on a construction site, stretching away and away into the grey mists. On the positive side, along with the self-reliance, came a physical strength that even by peasant standards is impressive. In a profession of iron wills, there is no one harder."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sean_Kelly_(cyclist)

dublin49

I think it was Robert Millar who said of Kelly,there were faster,tougher,smarter riders than Kelly .and I am paraphrasing here,but none pulled all these qualities together like Kelly and maintained a consistent high standard from March to Oct ,year after year for more than 10 years,

Gallant_JJ

redlead wrote: »

People in Ireland don't have a clue how great Kelly was. One of the greatest of all time in a global sport and Newstalk didn't think he warranted a top 4 from Waterford because aren't all cyclists on drugs. It's subjective but he's Irelands greatest ever athlete in my opinion. I think a big part of it is that while sports like running and cycling are super popular participation sports, most people that do them aren't interested in them to compete in races etc and so the numbers don't translate to interest in the professional sports as much.

It will be interesting to hear the Newstalk lads and the sports media generally fawn over Dustin Johnston all this week coming, despite 3 failed doping tests on his CV.

breezy1985

Gallant_JJ wrote: »

It will be interesting to hear the Newstalk lads and the sports media generally fawn over Dustin Johnston all this week coming, despite 3 failed doping tests on his CV.

Jeysus imagine doping for golf

TheBlaaMan

Gallant_JJ wrote: »

It will be interesting to hear the Newstalk lads and the sports media generally fawn over Dustin Johnston all this week coming, despite 3 failed doping tests on his CV.

Golf is interesting in its doping culture and the sport seems to bring out the most fan-boy like of journalists who specialise in reporting it and only asking really soft questions. The old reliable approach of fawning over the players to ensure that they maintain access is particularly nauseating at times and we have a few examples in this country. I guess its like so many other sports, but it tends to get very easy ride in regard to the use of PEDs.

Ceepo

Gallant_JJ wrote: »

It will be interesting to hear the Newstalk lads and the sports media generally fawn over Dustin Johnston all this week coming, despite 3 failed doping tests on his CV.

But sure it wasn't performance enhancing and he wasn't really banned, as the PGA don't release any information.
He just took a break for a while

Ceepo

TheBlaaMan wrote: »

Golf is interesting in its doping culture and the sport seems to bring out the most fan-boy like of journalists who specialise in reporting it and only asking really soft questions. The old reliable approach of fawning over the players to ensure that they maintain access is particularly nauseating at times and we have a few examples in this country. I guess its like so many other sports, but it tends to get very easy ride in regard to the use of PEDs.

Which could be clearly seen when Tiger wasn't questioned about his 10 on the par 3 12th today

Macy0161

TheBlaaMan wrote: »

I guess its like so many other sports, but it tends to get very easy ride in regard to the use of PEDs.

Same as football, too much money to be made with access to really question. But in the eyes of punters, that makes these sports clean as opposed to "dirty" cycling.

In an Irish context, OTB are particularly irritating, as they'll kill any good cycling news with a doping interview. This year, a few days after Sam winning green they had Whittle on discussing nothing more than the history of UAE's management - as much actual evidence from this years tour, as Trumps stolen election claims.

breezy1985

Macy0161 wrote: »

Same as football, too much money to be made with access to really question. But in the eyes of punters, that makes these sports clean as opposed to "dirty" cycling.

In an Irish context, OTB are particularly irritating, as they'll kill any good cycling news with a doping interview. This year, a few days after Sam winning green they had Whittle on discussing nothing more than the history of UAE's management - as much actual evidence from this years tour, as Trumps stolen election claims.

OTB only want to bother with a small few sports and the presenters are almost insulting in their obvious boredom when they have to talk about something.

Is off the ball also the one that has that cycling "expert" that wears a hulk mask?

CramCycle

breezy1985 wrote: »

OTB only want to bother with a small few sports and the presenters are almost insulting in their obvious boredom when they have to talk about something.

Is off the ball also the one that has that cycling "expert" that wears a hulk mask?

Yea, really passionate about anti doping to the point that he can't enjoy anything. I used to follow him on twitter but it was just relentless. Rather than wait for the day he accused the local U12 team of mass doping I decided I would go back to ignorance and enjoying sport. I actually can't remember his name now.

Sean Kelly was a great athlete, wonderful to watch, his personality was hit or miss. He reminded me of my uncle where everything was matter of fact. his car/wife/bike comment, either a joke or a realistic view of the world that many practical people had back then. I would have many comments about me from my partner, I actually took it as the jokes between couples that many of us would have.

My own partner would have put me at the back of a similar list in regards a few things, I don't take it personally and I wouldn't be sure if she is joking or not.

Like alot of things, not liking the man doesn't take away from what an athlete he was.

its like Paul Kimmage, I dislike the man immensely, but that doesn't take away from the fact that he is a great writer.

As a sportperson, I can see why some don't like him, I took such comments in the time and meaning I think they were intended. As an athlete and a strategist though, incredible.

Bass Reeves

Kelly paved the way for all the other Irish cyclists. He was so good that teams looked at other Irish cyclists. Roche and Early might never got the opportunities that they got if Kelly did not plough the ground ahead of them. He also helped them probably directly by giving them advice. If Roche had been ahead of Kelly he have advised him of the importance of winning the TDF. If he had Kelly might have concentrated on the grand tours and won two or three tour's. But the money from being the greatest one day and mini tour rider ever was hard for him to pass by as a young man that came from very ordinary circumstances.

magicbastarder

another of the irish greats was a chap i used to see cycling around the area here without realising who he is - Se O'Hanlon.
IIRC he took the lead of the 1965 Ras on the first stage and no one else held the lead at all until the 1968 Ras.

harringtonp

breezy1985 wrote: »

Jeysus imagine doping for golf

I wouldn't have believed it 30 years ago when many of the big guys (by big I mean fat) were leading players in the sport.

But it was changed by Woods where extra length meant easier to score lower.

These days gym work is part of the routine for most top golfers. And when you get widespread gym work in top level sport you're going to get some element of doping.

And in this regard rugby amazes me. As a sport it completely lends itself to all sorts of substance abuse, the biggest mystery for me is why you never read anything about it.

In general, I like reading David Walshs articles but it irks me that the only cycling that appears in the Sunday Times is his drug related articles. AFAIK this isn't sport and should appear in the main section of the paper rather than the sports supplement. Rugby is one of his sports too but he never writes about substance abuse there...

breezy1985

harringtonp wrote: »

I

But it was changed by Woods where extra length meant easier to score lower.

Oh behave

Seve OB

Roadtoad wrote: »

The Chairman of the Boards deserves a shoutout on this thread too.

why? it was supposed to be a thread about Sean Kellys victories?

I don't think I have ever seen a thread derailed so much from the second post. Pretty terrible really, I came to see what Sean Kellys victory career was like, but it turned into a bloodbath debating who is the Irish sports person ever. Jockeys, boxers, runners, golfers, drugs, cheats, blah blah, I mean talk about off topic! I could nearly forgive the comments about where Kelly ranks in the world of cycling because at least they had the subject of the thread in mind when posting, but I think there was only one subsequent post which referred to the actual topic in 14 pages.

poor form.

Chivito550 wrote: »

Roche's TDF win would have crossed sporting boundaries far more than anything Kelly achieved. Kelly was a far better rider, with a far more impressive career, but Roche won the one event that every casual sports fan knows about. That must have been a bit frustrating for Kelly, although he doesn't strike me as somebody motivated by fame and acclaim anyway.

Doubt it as a short time after le Tour '87 the World Championship was on where I think Kelly came third which was not by design as I believe he was out to win it. But I always remember one thing from that race seeing how delighted Kelly was to see Roche cross the line in first place

Frankie Machine

Seve OB wrote: »

why? it was supposed to be a thread about Sean Kellys victories?

I don't think I have ever seen a thread derailed so much from the second post. Pretty terrible really, I came to see what Sean Kellys victory career was like, but it turned into a bloodbath debating who is the Irish sports person ever. Jockeys, boxers, runners, golfers, drugs, cheats, blah blah, I mean talk about off topic! I could nearly forgive the comments about where Kelly ranks in the world of cycling because at least they had the subject of the thread in mind when posting, but I think there was only one subsequent post which referred to the actual topic in 14 pages.

poor form.

Absolutely agree.

A thread ruined by all that, and worse, by irrelevant craptalk about the man's private and family life.

Anyway, here's Kelly's palmares according to a Jean de Gribaldy site...

https://www.jeandegribaldy.com/index.php?zone=pages/sean_kelly_et_jean_de_gribaldy

Amazing stuff.

Finnrocco

Have a look at this:

https://www.procyclingstats.com/rider/sean-kelly/1984

He was at his peak.

Large bottle small glass

Finnrocco wrote: »

Have a look at this:

https://www.procyclingstats.com/rider/sean-kelly/1984

He was at his peak.

April 84 results would have been a successful career for many riders

Finnrocco

Have a look at the all time rankings on Procycling stats.

https://www.procyclingstats.com/rankings/me/special/all-time

You can while away an hour flicking through that.

TheBlaaMan

Finnrocco wrote: »

Have a look at the all time rankings on Procycling stats.

https://www.procyclingstats.com/rankings/me/special/all-time

You can while away an hour flicking through that.

....and probably none of the active riders on that list have a hope in hell of even getting close to Kelly, not even Sagan (who might be regarded as most likely to do so) as he is still a l o n g way off.

Looking at Kelly's record (especially '83 through 85) his list of 1st and 2nd places is extraordinary.

RobFowl

Re Pro cycling stats
Its a funny one, I'd rank Kelly above Moser by a long way but similarly would rank Hinault above Kelly (Bless me father for I have sinned).

Macy0161

RobFowl wrote: »

Re Pro cycling stats
Its a funny one, I'd rank Kelly above Moser by a long way but similarly would rank Hinault above Kelly (Bless me father for I have sinned).

Kelly is my personal favourite, but I'd have to agree.

Hinault was somewhat held back in his earlier days, and then (iirc from reading about him), quite often "shared" the wins when he was a leader. de Gribaldy never had a belt of that carry on with Kelly!

I really wouldn't have Moser that high up at all. Particularly given some of what went on in the '84 Giro!

breezy1985

Moser is overrated because Italy was desperate for a new hero at the time

TheBlaaMan

Even Diego was a fan.....

"La Stampa reported that Maradona had declared himself a fan of ...Sean Kelly, who was here in PDM colours, "


https://www.cyclingnews.com/features/guest-of-honour-diego-maradonas-unexpected-appearance-at-the-1990-tirreno-adriatico/

dublin49

the Pro cycling all time list looks well thought out until you see Lemond down in the 70's ,Surely Lemond in anyone's book was one the greats certainly of the 80's and deserves a much higher placing ,Rominger number 16? Seems very high by comparison.

CramCycle

dublin49 wrote: »

the Pro cycling all time list looks well thought out until you see Lemond down in the 70's ,Surely Lemond in anyone's book was one the greats certainly of the 80's and deserves a much higher placing ,Rominger number 16? Seems very high by comparison.

It's because they are weighted for certain types of races and victories which unfairly skews it for the benefit (or not) of some riders.