Challenging the big bad media monster

TP_CM

Years ago, our favourite TV or radio programme would get our attention, and we begrudgingly sat through whatever advertisements as a trade-off and the world worked fine. Now we have so much control and choice about what we consume on the web, things have changed. To get our attention, headlines need to be scarier and more emotive than those on rival media pages.

The media companies have therefore become a bit unbalanced, to put it lightly. Instead of providing us with scientific research which puts our minds at ease regarding covid, for example, we are shown coffins and crowded hospitals and Tubridy having a freak attack about how to wash his hands. Instead of showing us how old and senile Biden is, we're shown nothing but compilations of Trump gaffes. The most recent headlines appear to show America celebrating Biden's win, despite the fact that very close to 50% of people wanted Trump back in office.

They have also somehow made it uncool to challenge what they're publishing. If you think Trump getting elected isn't actually a big deal, or Biden is senile, or Boris is quite an intelligent person, or with Covid, why not just protect the old, vulnerable and anyone who wants protection from Covid? You will be cut down and ostracized in social circles. Doesn't it feel a bit like Catholicism in Ireland in the 1940s and 50s? "If you sing from the same hymn sheet as us, you're fine, but if you don't, you will suffer the wrath"?.

This isn't a thread to speak of individual events because they have their own threads and they've been done to death.

But how do we ensure we don't get wrapped up in this very "selective" media which is getting published? Wouldn't it be nice to have a single "opposition" media company, akin to an opposition party in government, whose job is to challenge the other side and the agenda they're pushing. Biden is great? Here are 5 good things Trump has done over the last 4 years. Covid is dangerous? Here is a discussion with 5 top scientists who have data to say otherwise. Boris is a clown? Take a look at these things he has achieved.

I am not a conspiracy theorist, or tin foil hat man, but I am struggling to have any confidence in what I know these days. It's getting harder and harder to drill down to the information which is just information and not biased towards one idea or another. I'm also finding it difficult to chat to people who are wrapped up in it all. It's such a dramatic fantasy at this stage. It's like trying to join a conversation about a tv soap opera. Or am I missing something?

Gatling

Too early on a Sunday

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Gatling wrote: »

Too early on a Sunday

Agreed, and I'm an hour ahead of you.

Fighting Tao

It is quite simple. It is easy to pick and choose what news sources you want to read, and being outraged is a choice. Media is consumed and consummation is a choice.

If you don’t agree with something then there are enough echo chambers on the internet to hide in.

MontgomeryClift

TP_CM wrote: »

Doesn't it feel a bit like Catholicism in Ireland in the 1940s and 50s? "If you sing from the same hymn sheet as us, you're fine, but if you don't, you will suffer the wrath"?.

You've identified the issue. Media have taken the place that religion used to occupy in relation to political power. They are the ecclesiastical wing of state power, so they all must be doctrinally pure, while appearing to host debate.

This is why religion has been sidelined by the state. In Ireland religion simply hung on to state power for a little longer. Yet the Catholic church here still tries to be nice to politicians in the belief that it will regain that old state power.

It makes sense from a political point of view. Why would political power rely on a mass gathering once a week to keep people in line when it can have round-the-clock propaganda beamed into people's heads no matter where they are?

TP_CM

Fighting Tao wrote: »

It is quite simple. It is easy to pick and choose what news sources you want to read, and being outraged is a choice. Media is consumed and consummation is a choice.

If you don’t agree with something then there are enough echo chambers on the internet to hide in.

I think you're giving humans more credit than they have earned. As far as I can see, whatever gets published in mainstream media dictates how the majority of people feel and think. I'm not sure there is as much critical thinking happening as you're implying.

TP_CM

TP_CM wrote: »

Or am I missing something?

The plot. Unless you've constructed your argument in bad faith. What exactly is balanced coverage when you consider partisan outlets like Fox News and Infowars pushing incendiary rhetoric, outright falsehoods and conspiracy theories? Which Trump himself has enthusiastically retweeted to his millions of followers. If you do not like what one segment of the media is reporting, feel free to ignore it and find another sympathetic to your worldview.

quokula

So Ryan Tubridy washing his hands is scary sensationalism but the media should pretend that the newly elected American president is senile?

Your problem isn’t with the media, it’s with facts not lining up with the view you want to have of reality.

CtevenSrowder

TP_CM wrote: »

Years ago, our favourite TV or radio programme would get our attention, and we begrudgingly sat through whatever advertisements as a trade-off and the world worked fine. Now we have so much control and choice about what we consume on the web, things have changed. To get our attention, headlines need to be scarier and more emotive than those on rival media pages.

The media companies have therefore become a bit unbalanced, to put it lightly. Instead of providing us with scientific research which puts our minds at ease regarding covid, for example, we are shown coffins and crowded hospitals and Tubridy having a freak attack about how to wash his hands. Instead of showing us how old and senile Biden is, we're shown nothing but compilations of Trump gaffes. The most recent headlines appear to show America celebrating Biden's win, despite the fact that very close to 50% of people wanted Trump back in office.

They have also somehow made it uncool to challenge what they're publishing. If you think Trump getting elected isn't actually a big deal, or Biden is senile, or Boris is quite an intelligent person, or with Covid, why not just protect the old, vulnerable and anyone who wants protection from Covid? You will be cut down and ostracized in social circles. Doesn't it feel a bit like Catholicism in Ireland in the 1940s and 50s? "If you sing from the same hymn sheet as us, you're fine, but if you don't, you will suffer the wrath"?.

This isn't a thread to speak of individual events because they have their own threads and they've been done to death.

But how do we ensure we don't get wrapped up in this very "selective" media which is getting published? Wouldn't it be nice to have a single "opposition" media company, akin to an opposition party in government, whose job is to challenge the other side and the agenda they're pushing. Biden is great? Here are 5 good things Trump has done over the last 4 years. Covid is dangerous? Here is a discussion with 5 top scientists who have data to say otherwise. Boris is a clown? Take a look at these things he has achieved.

I am not a conspiracy theorist, or tin foil hat man, but I am struggling to have any confidence in what I know these days. It's getting harder and harder to drill down to the information which is just information and not biased towards one idea or another. I'm also finding it difficult to chat to people who are wrapped up in it all. It's such a dramatic fantasy at this stage. It's like trying to join a conversation about a tv soap opera. Or am I missing something?

Surely this is more of an American problem than an Irish one no? Always remember that the media represents no-one other than themselves, and most people can see through the ****e.

Also what you have want re having an 'opposition' media is likely to have lead to the very problems that you describe. Facts and the truth get twisted and bent so whichever 'side' the media company is taking can be made to look good. This is what happens in America. If you watched Fox, Trumps America was the best thing ever, watch CNN it was the worst. Now Biden has won the roles will be reversed, it will be a progressive utopia according to CNN and a socialist dystopia according to Fox. Very little nuance and honesty will exist.

ILoveYourVibes

TP_CM wrote: »

Years ago, our favourite TV or radio programme would get our attention, and we begrudgingly sat through whatever advertisements as a trade-off and the world worked fine. Now we have so much control and choice about what we consume on the web, things have changed. To get our attention, headlines need to be scarier and more emotive than those on rival media pages.

The media companies have therefore become a bit unbalanced, to put it lightly. Instead of providing us with scientific research which puts our minds at ease regarding covid, for example, we are shown coffins and crowded hospitals and Tubridy having a freak attack about how to wash his hands. Instead of showing us how old and senile Biden is, we're shown nothing but compilations of Trump gaffes. The most recent headlines appear to show America celebrating Biden's win, despite the fact that very close to 50% of people wanted Trump back in office.

They have also somehow made it uncool to challenge what they're publishing. If you think Trump getting elected isn't actually a big deal, or Biden is senile, or Boris is quite an intelligent person, or with Covid, why not just protect the old, vulnerable and anyone who wants protection from Covid? You will be cut down and ostracized in social circles. Doesn't it feel a bit like Catholicism in Ireland in the 1940s and 50s? "If you sing from the same hymn sheet as us, you're fine, but if you don't, you will suffer the wrath"?.

This isn't a thread to speak of individual events because they have their own threads and they've been done to death.

But how do we ensure we don't get wrapped up in this very "selective" media which is getting published? Wouldn't it be nice to have a single "opposition" media company, akin to an opposition party in government, whose job is to challenge the other side and the agenda they're pushing. Biden is great? Here are 5 good things Trump has done over the last 4 years. Covid is dangerous? Here is a discussion with 5 top scientists who have data to say otherwise. Boris is a clown? Take a look at these things he has achieved.

I am not a conspiracy theorist, or tin foil hat man, but I am struggling to have any confidence in what I know these days. It's getting harder and harder to drill down to the information which is just information and not biased towards one idea or another. I'm also finding it difficult to chat to people who are wrapped up in it all. It's such a dramatic fantasy at this stage. It's like trying to join a conversation about a tv soap opera. Or am I missing something?

Balanced media is something everyone is supposed to hate.

The fact that you hate them proves they are doing their job.

I hate them too. I think they are dumb naive and frankly sometimes illiterate. I mean would it hurt them to proof read sometimes?

Fighting Tao

Fighting Tao wrote: »

It is quite simple. It is easy to pick and choose what news sources you want to read, and being outraged is a choice. Media is consumed and consummation is a choice.

.

No fan of Ryan Tubridys Radio or Late Late Show.
Yet


On both platforms, a appetized audience is there to lap his programmes up and clean the plate.

Change the channel OP.

TP_CM

CtevenSrowder wrote: »

Surely this is more of an American problem than an Irish one no? Always remember that the media represents no-one other than themselves, and most people can see through the ****e.

Also what you have want re having an 'opposition' media is likely to have lead to the very problems that you describe. Facts and the truth get twisted and bent so whichever 'side' the media company is taking can be made to look good. This is what happens in America. If you watched Fox, Trumps America was the best thing ever, watch CNN it was the worst. Now Biden has won the roles will be reversed, it will be a progressive utopia according to CNN and a socialist dystopia according to Fox. Very little nuance and honesty will exist.

Yes, fair point regarding the opposition media idea. However I do think it exists in Ireland too, or at least it's very plausible the same issue will evolve here over time for the same reason as elsewhere - clickbait.

ILoveYourVibes

Honestly though why does it seem like most modern newspapers and broadcasters have such bad grammar?

"The media" isn't a monolith. There are more available news outlets than ever before. You even said it yourself.

The idea of an official public "opposition" news outlet is frankly terrifying. It's what is at the heart of the US's deep division in a world of "alternative facts".

Richard Hillman

Diversity in Irish media is appalling. Their idea of Diversity in media people is of different backgrounds but with the same opinions. But diversity of thought is absolutely null.

1/3rd of the population voted against things like Same Sex Marriage and Abortion, where is their media representation? About 1 in 10 support Donald Trump, where is their media representation? About 1 in 10 are anti EU, where is their media representation?

33% would easily win an Irish General Election right now. 10% is the same amount of support that the Green Party and Social Democrats get combined. It's a huge number of the population that would gain significant numbers in the Dáil. But there is no media representation of their opinions on Ireland.

There is an air of Toxic Smugness around the media establishment in Ireland. The likes of Ryan Tubridy, Ray D'Arcy and Matt Cooper, along with the talking heads in Irish media, they reek of smugness and a superiority complex

ILoveYourVibes

Deleted User wrote: »

"The media" isn't a monolith. .

Irish media?

Not really .. a lot of it is run by the govt (and it shows )

And that guy who runs a sandwich bar.

TP_CM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

"The media" isn't a monolith. There are more available news outlets than ever before. You even said it yourself.

The idea of an official public "opposition" news outlet is frankly terrifying. It's what is at the heart of the US's deep division in a world of "alternative facts".

That begs the question - which is worse - unity under a single illusion or propaganda? Or division under a system like Fox News vs CNN? And by the way, I am not pushing alternative facts or fake news. I mean revealing facts which haven't been picked up by mainstream media.

TP_CM

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Honestly though why does it seem like most modern newspapers and broadcasters have such bad grammar?

I am noticing that a lot more, even with the Irish Times. And a lot more articles are being published without an author's name above which I dislike too.

TP_CM

TP_CM wrote: »

That begs the question - which is worse - unity under a single illusion or propaganda? Or division under a system like Fox News vs CNN? And by the way, I am not pushing alternative facts or fake news. I mean revealing facts which haven't been picked up by mainstream media.

I'd take "single illusion" any day of the week. I barely take in anything rte out out if I'm being honest. The daily news on Rte fairly drab at best. Whenever I do have a look it's clear to me that they're reporting all sorts of view points. Dr Martin Feeley on Claire Byrne live comes to mind. Regardless this obsession with the "main stream media" is ridiculous. There are literally thousands of media outlets in Ireland alone representing thousands of points of view. Branch out. Main stream media has become a buzz word to represent anything someone disagrees with.

ILoveYourVibes

TP_CM wrote: »

I am noticing that a lot more, even with the Irish Times. And a lot more articles are being published without an author's name above which I dislike too.

I know !!

What is with that?

Also news readers with weirdly constructed sentences or sometimes just really mispronouncing words.

Was it always this bad?

I know they are human but it seems to happen more often and it seems amateurish.

I mean Anderson Cooper's Turtle sentence? WTF? Some of the sentence structures of Sean Hannity also through me for a loop!

in the middle of a summer love session, autonomous zone, where it's like one big block party, with spaghetti, you know, whatevers? dinners?!"

These people are PAID to be good at English as part of their jobs.

Why people are writing anon i dont know? But it's disconcerting.

TP_CM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I'd take "single illusion" any day of the week. I barely take in anything rte out out if I'm being honest. The daily news on Rte fairly drab at best. Whenever I do have a look it's clear to me that they're reporting all sorts of view points. Dr Martin Feeley on Claire Byrne live comes to mind. Regardless this obsession with the "main stream media" is ridiculous. There are literally thousands of media outlets in Ireland alone representing thousands of points of view. Branch out. Main stream media has become a buzz word to represent anything someone disagrees with.

The problem is that I probably would agree with it, if it were more balanced. If it was a bit more mature about sharing its ideas then it would be fine. The bigger issue is the social one. I might be a Pro-Biden person, but if I mention a charity to which Trump donated, I am immediately looked upon as a Pro-Trump conservative. This is just an example.

ancapailldorcha

Is this sort of pathetic wailing going to be de rigeur going forward? You lost. Get over it.

TP_CM

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Is this sort of pathetic wailing going to be de rigeur going forward? You lost. Get over it.

I lost what?

Jimbob1977

Since the proliferation of the internet and social media, there has been an explosion of differing voices which push various agendas.

I could set up a YouTube channel for free and gain thousands of viewers overnight.

In the 1980s, I had four choices for TV news - RTE, BBC, ITV and Channel 4. The reporting was largely factual and balanced.

Nowadays, the field is extremely crowded and you need to provoke a reaction to win viewers.

Fox News and CNN are the Pravdas of the Republican and Democrat parties respectively. They don't even try to hide the bias.

Newstalk have cosy chats between Pat Kenny and NUIG lecturer Larry Donnelly, who is effectively the chairman of the Galway Democratic Party Fan Club. It is comical to listen to.

It's a slippery slope.

ILoveYourVibes

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Is this sort of pathetic wailing going to be de rigeur going forward? You lost. Get over it.

It is true we have lost the grammar war.


On the upside Biden won.

But the grammar

MontgomeryClift

ancapailldorcha wrote:

Is this sort of pathetic wailing going to be de rigeur going forward? You lost. Get over it.

TP_CM wrote: »

I lost what?

NPCs contradict themselves when they talk about media power.

On one hand, "All kinds of views are supported in media. We have more choice than ever. You're just upset because it doesn't agree with you all the time."

On the other hand, "You lost. Your views are nuts, and will never be allowed on our media. Get over it."

Fighting Tao

Fighting Tao wrote: »

It is quite simple. It is easy to pick and choose what news sources you want to read, and being outraged is a choice. Media is consumed and consummation is a choice.

If you don’t agree with something then there are enough echo chambers on the internet to hide in.

Totally missing the point. The OPs point is that the mainstream media has largely become one of those echo chambers.

Biker79

The business of News is in complete turmoil, for a number of reasons:

- Everyone with internet access is increasingly their own journalist
- Telling the truth and commercial success are often mutually exclusive.
- Automated (AI/ Machine learning algorithms ) can create news content. MSN news replaced all of their journalist staff with automation a few months ago. The Guardian and BBC news are heading in that direction.

Yet we still cling on to the idea that RTE/ Irish Times/ CNN etc, are the pillars of reliability they always were. This is no longer the case and they are struggling to keep afloat - utterly dependent on advertising revenue. This means that advertising brands are de facto in control of what content gets reported and how its framed.

The only reliable news is now on Bitube/ Youtube from independent content creators.

ancapailldorcha

Biker79 wrote: »

The only reliable news is now on Bitube/ Youtube from independent content creators.

So your solution is to just choose your favourite Youtube crank and treat them as prophets.

These people are completely unregulated, have no code of ethics and are in no way accountable.

I'll stick with actual news and scepticism.

Gregor Samsa

Biker79 wrote: »

The only reliable news is now on Bitube/ Youtube from independent content creators.

What makes the fact that anyone can post anything up in these sites, and make money from the simple fact of people viewing, inherently reliable?

That you choose to believe the content you’ve chosen to believe does not make it reliable.

ancapailldorcha

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

So your solution is to just choose your favourite Youtube crank and treat them as prophets.

These people are completely unregulated, have no code of ethics and are in no way accountable.

I'll stick with actual news and scepticism.

If you do that then I applaud you. However RTE had an ex CNN reporter on the news for days now to give us the "American" viewpoint. They might as well have had Tucker Carlson on - at least Tucker is funny. I would trust anything she said as much as I'd trust Tuckers viewpoint - that's to say not at all.

RTE are meant to be impartial - they clearly aren't. Same story with COVID. Accepting Jerry Killeens claims of 30 years in lockdown and thousands of body bags without as much as a single question.

Going to some randomer on YouTube or having a Brexit style party in Ireland isn't the answer either. I don't know what is. I think we are doomed.