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Challenging the big bad media monster

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  • Registered Users Posts: 29,559 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    TP_CM wrote: »
    I think there is due process with an election which might not rely on the president conceding. I think the votes are counted, election officials make an announcement and eventually the department of foreign affairs sends out a communication. Who knows what Trump will do. With his track record, he could announce a win, defeat, and a court case all in the one day.

    there is of course due process, and its good to see, both dems and republicans have more or less proceeded as such, i think we will see further distancing by the republicans of the trump admin now. my only concern with trump now would be, what the hell will he do to ultimately protect his ego during changeover, but again, i suspect, or hope at least, thats the republicans will continue to distant themselves, and protect the change over as much as possible, by depowering himself


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 794 ✭✭✭Biker79


    Lefties seem obsessed with Trump's ego and narcissism. Out in the real world, you need these qualities to rise through the ranks of an organisation - certainly to rise to the top.

    He will go once due process has been delivered. Right now, there is gathering evidence of the alleged voter fraud.

    A whistleblower named Denis Montogomery has confirmed software he wrote for the CIA to manage foreign election outcomes ( Ukraine/ Afghanistan ) has been used in the contentious states. Its called " HAMR ' and the voting component is called ' Scorecard '

    https://www.thethinkingconservative.com/scorecard-and-hammer-election-hack/


    Of course, it could be an elaborate conspiracy from the tinfoil hat brigade...:)


  • Registered Users Posts: 29,559 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    Biker79 wrote: »
    Lefties seem obsessed with Trump's ego and narcissism. Out in the real world, you need these qualities to rise through the ranks of an organisation - certainly to rise to the top.

    He will go once due process has been delivered. Right now, there is gathering evidence of the alleged voter fraud.

    A whistleblower named Denis Montogomery has confirmed software he wrote for the CIA to manage foreign election outcomes ( Ukraine/ Afghanistan ) has been used in the contentious states. Its called " HAMR ' and the voting component is called ' Scorecard '

    https://www.thethinkingconservative.com/scorecard-and-hammer-election-hack/


    Of course, it could be an elaborate conspiracy from the tinfoil hat brigade...:)

    you ll generally find, individuals who themselves have narcissistic traits, will agree with this thinking, yes some of them would be lefties themselves, but some in fact, would have a psychology background. trump has classic cluster b npd traits, many individuals with this disorder would find themselves operating at high levels in society, including within the financial sector, corporate sector, politics etc etc, generally causing great harm to society, and setting off a chain reaction of behavioural traits such as 'gresham's dynamic', which has caused countless major economic crashes, and other extremely harmful events such as major wars etc.


  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,269 Mod ✭✭✭✭Chips Lovell


    TP_CM wrote: »
    In actual fact, looking at the Kremlin's historical congratulatory messages on their website, it seems that they always wait until an official announcement has been made by the American authorities. They waited until Trump was officially announced, and the same with Obama.

    I'm unclear on what you're referring to here when you say "official announcement". What is it, the date of results certification? Or the date the electoral college votes? Or something else?


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Biker79 wrote: »
    Lefties seem obsessed with Trump's ego and narcissism. Out in the real world, you need these qualities to rise through the ranks of an organisation - certainly to rise to the top.

    He will go once due process has been delivered. Right now, there is gathering evidence of the alleged voter fraud.

    A whistleblower named Denis Montogomery has confirmed software he wrote for the CIA to manage foreign election outcomes ( Ukraine/ Afghanistan ) has been used in the contentious states. Its called " HAMR ' and the voting component is called ' Scorecard '

    https://www.thethinkingconservative.com/scorecard-and-hammer-election-hack/


    Of course, it could be an elaborate conspiracy from the tinfoil hat brigade...:)

    Wrong thread?


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 794 ✭✭✭Biker79


    Wanderer78 wrote: »
    you ll generally find, individuals who themselves have narcissistic traits, will agree with this thinking, yes some of them would be lefties themselves, but some in fact, would have a psychology background. trump has classic cluster b npd traits, many individuals with this disorder would find themselves operating at high levels in society, including within the financial sector, corporate sector, politics etc etc, generally causing great harm to society, and setting off a chain reaction of behavioural traits such as 'gresham's dynamic', which has caused countless major economic crashes, and other extremely harmful events such as major wars etc.

    Hmm. Don't think any of that is true. High in IQ, high in testosterone, low in agreeableness...these are the qualities of high achievers. Many of whom add a lot of value, including the continuing trajectory of lowering global poverty rates.

    I would subscribe to the spiteful mutant theory though, which has more research evidence.

    Do you use a mac? Steve Jobs was a w***er by all accounts. Look at the value he added. Plenty of similar examples. Jack Welch is my favourite. Makes Trump look like Tom Hanks.
    Wrong thread?

    It's about general media outlet bias and their habit of misinformation, so no.


  • Registered Users Posts: 29,559 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    Biker79 wrote: »
    Hmm. Don't think any of that is true. High in IQ, high in testosterone, low in agreeableness...these are the qualities of high achievers. Many of whom add a lot of value, including the continuing trajectory of lowering global poverty rates.

    I would subscribe to the spiteful mutant theory though, which has more research evidence.

    Do you use a mac? Steve Jobs was a w***er by all accounts. Look at the value he added. Plenty of similar examples. Jack Welch is my favourite. Makes Trump look like Tom Hanks.



    It's about general media outlet bias and their habit of misinformation, so no.

    there is indeed research to support it, it has been found, that theres a high level of complex disorders with many high level employees in those sectors, in particular cluster b personality disorders, primarily, npd's (narcissistic personality disorder) and aspd(antisocial personality disorder, which would commonly be called sociopath and/or psychopath). it has also been found, their behaviour sets off a complex behavioural problem called 'gresham's dynamic', which in turn quickly drives out good ethical or moralistic behavior in the workplace in its entirety, replacing it with highly toxic and potentially dangerous behaviour, this is believed to have played a critical role in major economic crashes, including the previous one.

    it would be common for cluster b's to have a high level of intelligence, certain is in my own experience, very high actually, so trump really is an enigma in that regard.

    yes some would have done great things for humanity, but many have done great damage, trump being a perfect example

    i dont actually use a mac, but jobs was more than likely autistic, narcissism is common amongst that community as well, jobs was also a perfectionist, also common with autism. it can make us difficult to be around and work with at times. i do not believe jobs had a cluster b disorder, but trump perfectly fits the criteria, npd's are only truly self interested.

    no misinformation there anyway, whos jack welch?


  • Registered Users Posts: 443 ✭✭TP_CM


    I'm unclear on what you're referring to here when you say "official announcement". What is it, the date of results certification? Or the date the electoral college votes? Or something else?

    For me, I would think it prudent to wait until a White House announcement or a confirmation from the department of foreign affairs before congratulating any foreign election candidate on a win. Especially because of the way the media consistently down-played Trump's chances. Imagine being in Russia and China and looking at all the Western news about Trump for the past year and then seeing him get almost 71 million votes. 71000000 is not a number to be sniffed at. I would not rely on anything in the western media if I were them. They're probably thinking Fox news is the only source of truth!


  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,269 Mod ✭✭✭✭Chips Lovell


    TP_CM wrote: »
    For me, I would think it prudent to wait until a White House announcement or a confirmation from the department of foreign affairs before congratulating any foreign election candidate on a win.

    With respect, your opinion is irrelevant. The United States doesn't ask you personally when you consider a result to be official. Neither does Russia nor RTE. The White House and the State Department play no role in the process of certifying election results.

    You claimed that Russia always waits for an "official announcement". Yet last time around the election was held on November 8 and Putin congratulated Trump on his victory the following day.

    So I guess I'm wondering why you're claiming RTE are deceiving people by reporting that Trump had not yet congratulated Biden?


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Biker79 wrote: »

    It's about general media outlet bias and their habit of misinformation, so no.

    A quick Google makes me think this is better suited to the conspiracy theory forum tbh


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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Unless I'm misunderstanding you and the misinformation you are talking about is the article you shared


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,597 ✭✭✭atilladehun


    The media has always been and will always be serving their paymasters, be that MSM or tell it like it is small scale stuff. They're both counting clicks and correspondence.

    Some of them are funded by their supporters, others by riling up those that don't agree. I include both mainstream and independent in that.

    There's way too much engagement with information and news. As consumers we've gotten hooked to it over the years through on the hour radio, 24 hour TV to the internet and our phones.

    Every side sits under an umbrella that this is really important and it's our duty to be well informed citizens with opinions. We're also conditioned to believe there must be two sides to everything and it's valid for us to argue even of both sides are immovable and entrenched.

    As humans we have a natural ego that ensures us our views on the world and who we associate with are correct, have value should be shared.

    By all means search out a wide variety of media to learn from. I suggest using a media political spectrum chart to challenge yourself with alternate views. It'll hopefully help you see the gaps in the media that has become your go to. If you're not finding flaws in the media you recommend the way you do the media that frustrates you then question your own approach.

    Put a time limit on it too. Find other ways to enrich your mind. It's really not the education all sides of the media would like you to think it is. If you're so interested in humans then maybe some courses on sociology, anthropology, philosophy, history, religions and psychology would be better for your mind.


  • Registered Users Posts: 443 ✭✭TP_CM


    With respect, your opinion is irrelevant. The United States doesn't ask you personally when you consider a result to be official. Neither does Russia nor RTE. The White House and the State Department play no role in the process of certifying election results.

    You claimed that Russia always waits for an "official announcement". Yet last time around the election was held on November 8 and Putin congratulated Trump on his victory the following day.

    So I guess I'm wondering why you're claiming RTE are deceiving people by reporting that Trump had not yet congratulated Biden?

    Firstly, you can't ask someone a question and then tell them their opinion is irrelevant. And you can't say "with due respect" and then follow it up with the most obvious sentence on earth, ignoring the point the other person was making. There is no respect in that.

    Hilary phoned Donald T to congratulate him at 4am on the 9th and publically announced defeat around the same time. And the congratulations came after.

    I'm not claiming that RTE are deceiving people in that way. You have lost me there. RTE are deceiving people by suggesting the Kremlin and China and doing something different this time around when they aren't. They're creating drama where there isn't any. No candidate has admitted defeat, no authority (as far as I know) has communicated that one candidate has won. Had Biden even announced he had won at that stage? I don't think so but I can't say I'm sure.


  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,269 Mod ✭✭✭✭Chips Lovell


    TP_CM wrote: »
    Firstly, you can't ask someone a question and then tell them their opinion is irrelevant. And you can't say "with due respect" and then follow it up with the most obvious sentence on earth, ignoring the point the other person was making. There is no respect in that.

    You said that the Kremlin waited until an "official announcement" was made. And when asked what the official announcement was, followed up with what "in your opinion" it should be. Do you not realise that you've created subjective criteria for victory. I was asking for facts, not opinions. That's why I said your opinion was irrelevant.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    TP_CM wrote: »
    Firstly, you can't ask someone a question and then tell them their opinion is irrelevant. And you can't say "with due respect" and then follow it up with the most obvious sentence on earth, ignoring the point the other person was making. There is no respect in that.

    Hilary phoned Donald T to congratulate him at 4am on the 9th and publically announced defeat around the same time. And the congratulations came after.

    I'm not claiming that RTE are deceiving people in that way. You have lost me there. RTE are deceiving people by suggesting the Kremlin and China and doing something different this time around when they aren't. They're creating drama where there isn't any. No candidate has admitted defeat, no authority (as far as I know) has communicated that one candidate has won. Had Biden even announced he had won at that stage? I don't think so but I can't say I'm sure.
    If you're relying on Trump conceding before reporting the result then the election may never end tbh. Even pro Trump media are taking the result seriously. Just because he's inventing conspiracies to try and throw out the result, does not make the result illegitimate. Pretty glad that Irish media is not catering to conspiracies.


  • Registered Users Posts: 443 ✭✭TP_CM


    You said that the Kremlin waited until an "official announcement" was made. And when asked what the official announcement was, followed up with what "in your opinion" it should be. Do you not realise that you've created subjective criteria for victory. I was asking for facts, not opinions. That's why I said your opinion was irrelevant.

    Well, in that case, it was the opposing candidate Hillary Clinton admitting defeat at 4am. That's a fact and it's official. I'm sorry, but if you can't see that a candidate publicly admitting defeat, or some confirmation being announced by the White house, or a supreme court ruling is more official than whatever the Biden-biased media is saying, then I don't think we'll get anywhere.


  • Registered Users Posts: 443 ✭✭TP_CM


    If you're relying on Trump conceding before reporting the result then the election may never end tbh. Even pro Trump media are taking the result seriously. Just because he's inventing conspiracies to try and throw out the result, does not make the result illegitimate. Pretty glad that Irish media is not catering to conspiracies.

    Something will have to give eventually. Not even America can run on the Media alone. If Trump doesn't admit defeat, and I doubt he will, the courts will have to get involved. The point is, that the Irish Media are creating drama and conspiracy by somehow implying that Russia and China are backing Trump, when really they are just waiting for the dust to settle. It's not like there's any rush.


  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,269 Mod ✭✭✭✭Chips Lovell


    TP_CM wrote: »
    Well, in that case, it was the opposing candidate Hillary Clinton admitting defeat at 4am. That's a fact and it's official. I'm sorry, but if you can't see that a candidate publicly admitting defeat, or some confirmation being announced by the White house, or a supreme court ruling is more official than whatever the Biden-biased media is saying, then I don't think we'll get anywhere.

    I kind of feel that you're trying to shape the facts to fit the allegation rather than conceding that the allegation was incorrect. Claiming victory or conceding defeat is an informal gesture that has no bearing on the official certification of the result. Usually one or both of those happens when it becomes apparent who the victor is and congratulations from foreign leaders begin.

    So lets go back to your allegation. Most countries have now congratulated Biden on his win, but Russia is one of a few that hasn't. RTE saw that as newsworthy. You state that this is what Russia always does, but that simply isn't true. For the last few elections, Russia has congratulated the winner at around the same time as everyone else. Indeed, in 2000 it congratulated George W Bush before Al Gore conceded. So where's the evidence that Russia usually waits around longer than everyone else?


  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,269 Mod ✭✭✭✭Chips Lovell


    TP_CM wrote: »
    If Trump doesn't admit defeat, and I doubt he will, the courts will have to get involved.

    The courts don't have to get involved. I've no doubt that Trump will try to get the courts involved. But he does not have to admit defeat in order for Biden to be sworn in. That'll happen regardless of whether he concedes or not.


  • Registered Users Posts: 443 ✭✭TP_CM


    I kind of feel that you're trying to shape the facts to fit the allegation rather than conceding that the allegation was incorrect. Claiming victory or conceding defeat is an informal gesture that has no bearing on the official certification of the result. Usually one or both of those happens when it becomes apparent who the victor is and congratulations from foreign leaders begin.

    So lets go back to your allegation. Most countries have now congratulated Biden on his win, but Russia is one of a few that hasn't. RTE saw that as newsworthy. You state that this is what Russia always does, but that simply isn't true. For the last few elections, Russia has congratulated the winner at around the same time as everyone else. Indeed, in 2000 it congratulated George W Bush before Al Gore conceded. So where's the evidence that Russia usually waits around longer than everyone else?

    Sorry Chips but you're bending my words there. You're making it sound like I said Russia always waits until after everyone else. I said Russia always waits until it has been officially announced. You then asked me to define what 'officially announced' means while making no attempt to understand the underlying point I was making, which is that perhaps, in this bizarre world, Russia and China have zero respect for western media coverage, and they are simply waiting to hear it from a source they trust before congratulating Biden. What that source is, I can't tell you. But I can say that they are within their rights to wait for it without the implication that there's any sort of malice or loyalty games or that 'it speaks volumes' as I think The Guardian said. What you're asking Russia and China to do is trust the same media companies which tear them a new one at every single opportunity. And I can't argue with someone who thinks I'm trying to 'shape facts to the allegation'. Facts are facts. If the facts support an allegation how am I supposed to say it's incorrect. There's not much more I can do here I'm afraid. To me it's blindingly obvious there's a bias in the media, and to others maybe it's not so obvious. Maybe one side will never understand the other.


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  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,269 Mod ✭✭✭✭Chips Lovell


    TP_CM wrote: »
    Sorry Chips but you're bending my words there. You're making it sound like I said Russia always waits until after everyone else. I said Russia always waits until it has been officially announced.

    It isn't officially announced until December. As you say, facts are facts. But since Russia clearly never waits till then, you created your own definition of what an official announcement is.
    TP_CM wrote: »
    ... Russia and China have zero respect for western media coverage, and they are simply waiting to hear it from a source they trust before congratulating Biden.

    Are you saying that this your proof of the decline of the western media? That Russia and China have lost faith in it?


  • Registered Users Posts: 443 ✭✭TP_CM


    TP_CM wrote: »
    You Russia and China have zero respect for western media coverage, and they are simply waiting to hear it from a source they trust before congratulating Biden.

    Are you saying that this your proof of the decline of the western media? That Russia and China have lost faith in it?

    Nope, not saying that at all. And for some reason you changed my post when quoting me here by the way.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Is there more evidence of the big bad media monster? Skimmed it and it seems like a fairly factual story about countries that have icey US public relations.

    https://www.rte.ie/news/world/2020/1109/1177069-world-leaders-biden/


  • Registered Users Posts: 443 ✭✭TP_CM


    Is there more evidence of the big bad media monster? Skimmed it and it seems like a fairly factual story about countries that have icey US public relations.

    https://www.rte.ie/news/world/2020/1109/1177069-world-leaders-biden/

    Not at the moment in fairness, maybe it's taking a break! What media sites do you bounce between to avoid a one-sided view, or is that something you think about at all?


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    TP_CM wrote: »
    Not at the moment in fairness, maybe it's taking a break! What media sites do you bounce between to avoid a one-sided view, or is that something you think about at all?

    Any interesting stories I tend to fact check with multiple credible sources. This does not mean I would choose to balance it out with unreliable sources like Breitbart.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,301 ✭✭✭Snickers Man


    Media is consumed and consummation is a choice.

    Ooer!! Sounds a bit rude!!

    Consumption is a choice; consummation is often an obligation.

    Who ever heard of a marriage being annulled because it wasn't consumed? :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,485 ✭✭✭Fighting Tao


    Ooer!! Sounds a bit rude!!

    Consumption is a choice; consummation is often an obligation.

    Who ever heard of a marriage being annulled because it wasn't consumed? :)

    Freudian slip. Good spot. No one else saw it :D


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