Eight gardaí suspended in Munster region over allegations of corruption

KaneToad

Cluedo Monopoly wrote: »

This honourable man admitted that he nearly took his own life due to this sick smear.

Only a naive fool would believe this was simply a copy-and-paste error.

Sick and Twisted.

I am neither. And I daresay you are playing the man, not the ball. Why do you feel the need to insult posters rather than put forward your argument with civility?

I don't disagree that the McCabe affair was a hatchet job against him by the guards. I don't disagree that TUSLA procedures & practices were (are?) a shambles in some instances. I don't disagree that the TUSLA shortcomings added to the suffering of Maurice McCabe. I do disagree that it was a conspiracy between TUSLA and the guards to 'get' an innocent man.

I don't believe that the social worker who made the error is a liar.

https://www.thejournal.ie/kay-mcloughlin-3492109-Jul2017/%3famp=1

stoneill

James Burke would love this.

A few lads let off with speeding fines - 8 Garda suspended - Tusla is ****e.

ohnonotgmail

KaneToad wrote: »

Section 62 of the Garda Síochána Act

62.— (1) A person who is or was a member of the Garda Síochána or of its civilian staff or who is or was engaged under contract or other arrangement to work with or for the Garda Síochána shall not disclose, in or outside the State, any information obtained in the course of carrying out duties of that person’s office, employment, contract or other arrangement if the person knows the disclosure of that information is likely to have a harmful effect.

*I assume you don't mean financially poor? Guards are very well compensated for their work.

what information did they disclose?

Cluedo Monopoly

KaneToad wrote: »

I am neither. And I daresay you are playing the man, not the ball. Why do you feel the need to insult posters rather than put forward your argument with civility?

I don't disagree that the McCabe affair was a hatchet job against him by the guards. I don't disagree that TUSLA procedures & practices were (are?) a shambles in some instances. I don't disagree that the TUSLA shortcomings added to the suffering of Maurice McCabe. I do disagree that it was a conspiracy between TUSLA and the guards to 'get' an innocent man.

I don't believe that the social worker who made the error is a liar.

https://www.thejournal.ie/kay-mcloughlin-3492109-Jul2017/%3famp=1

It makes me angry when people try to downplay this smear as time goes by. The McCabe interview just before Ivan Yates retired reminded me about how much damage was done to that hero and his wife and family. I will never forget it. This country owes them a huge debt of gratitude. Anyway I am leading the thread away from it's subject so I'll stop there.

Solutionking

KaneToad wrote: »

Section 62 of the Garda Síochána Act

62.— (1) A person who is or was a member of the Garda Síochána or of its civilian staff or who is or was engaged under contract or other arrangement to work with or for the Garda Síochána shall not disclose, in or outside the State, any information obtained in the course of carrying out duties of that person’s office, employment, contract or other arrangement if the person knows the disclosure of that information is likely to have a harmful effect.

*I assume you don't mean financially poor? Guards are very well compensated for their work.

What confidential information did they release?

As per my post when someone asked if they would go to prison, do we have a law for poor/bad employee's? so if they are terrible at their job they get sent to prison?

skooterblue2

Solutionking wrote: »

What confidential information did they release?

As per my post when someone asked if they would go to prison, do we have a law for poor/bad employee's? so if they are terrible at their job they get sent to prison?

If you forge a document that affects other peoples lives well then yes, when you conspire to concieve or decieve.
Like if you KNOWINGLY release a medicine or medical device that does not meet industrial safety requirements for example.

paw patrol

Cluedo Monopoly wrote: »

I don't believe for one minute that it was a genuine TUSLA error. Not one iota. TUSLA seems to be a very badly run organisation too.

McCabe is still hated within the Gardai. I wonder why that is. The good old days are over?

KaneToad wrote: »

I do believe it was a genuine TUSLA error. I believe the evidence of the TUSLA social worker who completed the (erroneous) file.

Why do you think she would lie? What would be her motive?

anybody who believes that Tusla made a mistake that "accidently" implicated the one guy trying to bring down the corrupt Garda apparatus needs their head examined.

KaneToad wrote: »

Why do you think she would lie? What would be her motive?

honestly who knows.
Perhaps owning up to an error is preferable to other allegations?

Maybe there are other reasons not in the public domain?


Given the nature of Tusla and what they do - imagine if Tusla admitted it being used as a weapon against perceived enemies of those in power....the anger would be unreal - you could see the government falling.

Tow

Stovepipe wrote: »

(c) their pension contributions are their own and may not be touched. All you can do is fire the offender and give him his contributions back.

The value of a Garda pension far exceeds the amount of money they put into it. It could easily be greatly reduced in value. It would actually be harder on the Gard to give them their pension contributions back. Revenue would require their pound of flesh first, if given in cash. The only way would be to transfer their contributions into a private pension fund.

From the Irish Times:
https://www.irishtimes.com/business/financial-services/public-sector-pensions-worth-millions-new-figures-show-1.3143604

Laois_Man

I have a female Garda neighbour who has several times boasted to us that she has gotten her brother off speeding tickets. He races around, knowing if caught by a Garda, he'll more than likely get away with it. She has instructed him to get the badge number of the Garda who nabs him, she then rings him up before he has an opportunity to enter the ticket into the system, she'll sweet talk him and she'll probably be able to get him to tear the page out of his notebook and bin it. She has done this successfully numerous times!

This **** is rampant in the Gardai. I'm shocked that it was a top story yesterday - as if it's news!

skooterblue2

paw patrol wrote: »

anybody who believes that Tusla made a mistake that "accidently" implicated the one guy trying to bring down the corrupt Garda apparatus needs their head examined.





honestly who knows.
Perhaps owning up to an error is preferable to other allegations?

Maybe there are other reasons not in the public domain?


Given the nature of Tusla and what they do - imagine if Tusla admitted it being used as a weapon against perceived enemies of those in power....the anger would be unreal - you could see the government falling.

Perhaps this social worker was promised something else by someone higher up the ladder. Remember that scandal took out 2 ministers for Justice and 2 Garda commissioners. If the Minister or Commissioner didnt know this was going on in their department/force respectively they werent fit to be in the job. I wou expect some sort of vague order was given "Give this Garda something to soften his cough and we will take it into consideration next time we are looking for a new head for your department next year?" That seems attractive to me considering what little effort it was to write the malicious report.

"Look, with a spot I damn him." Julius Caesar Act 4 Scene 1.

skooterblue2

Laois_Man wrote: »

I'm shocked that it was a top story yesterday - as if it's news!

Imagine what story was surpressed to allow this story to happen?

KaneToad

Solutionking wrote: »

What confidential information did they release?

As per my post when someone asked if they would go to prison, do we have a law for poor/bad employee's? so if they are terrible at their job they get sent to prison?

I thought that divulging that a fine had been expunged would be releasing confidential information. Unless the recipient of the favour directly contacted the guard who did the expunging and the guard acted alone. But if there were any intermediary involved, either guard or non guard, then confidential information would have been divulged. As far as I am aware, a guard isn't just allowed to pass information about an incident to another guard unless it directly relates to their job.

Anyways, I think I'm labouring the point. I fully accept that it may not be section 62. Other charges (or none) may be more applicable. These guards are innocent until proven otherwise.

As per your post - you specifically referred to guards, now you are throwing the net wider to include other 'bad/poor employees".

The guards in question here were not arrested for being bad/poor. They were arrested on the basis of suspected criminality. All employees, irrespective of organisation, are liable for arrest/charge due to criminal behaviour in their workplace.

Heres Johnny

opfleet wrote: »

Why is there such an obsession with the Gardai in this country? Any time, some negative headline comes out, a thread is created. We don't see the likes for any other profession..

Well guard...... when a thread is started about a current matter, why does someone say that something else is ignored that isn't happening at the moment?

Someone said in US presidential forum the other day we should be posting more about Irish election......yes, when it is current we will

Teachers, nurses, public servants, politicians, travellers, dole layabouts (yes, being a traveller and a dole layabout are professions, its how the choose to receive their income) all have as much and in some cases, plenty of more forum space than Garda.

Heres Johnny

Laois_Man wrote: »

I have a female Garda neighbour who has several times boasted to us that she has gotten her brother off speeding tickets. He races around, knowing if caught by a Garda, he'll more than likely get away with it. She has instructed him to get the badge number of the Garda who nabs him, she then rings him up before he has an opportunity to enter the ticket into the system, she'll sweet talk him and she'll probably be able to get him to tear the page out of his notebook and bin it. She has done this successfully numerous times!

This **** is rampant in the Gardai. I'm shocked that it was a top story yesterday - as if it's news!

Yes, it happens but your story about your neigbour and her brother is completely and utterly made up.

boardz

For me I'm willing to accept some doing a favour for a family member/friend on low level stuff eg some traffic offences if it means the garda treat us -in general the way they do day to day compared to the way the police operate in most other countries ie automatons who just blindly follow every little rule (USA) or corrupt (take your pick). I know once you go down that road when do you say stop but I think when they overstep the mark like these may have it's more or less self correcting.

KaneToad

paw patrol wrote: »

anybody who believes that Tusla made a mistake that "accidently" implicated the one guy trying to bring down the corrupt Garda apparatus needs their head examined.

Why attack the poster and not the post? Can your argument not stand on its own merits?

I don't believe it was a TUSLA & guards conspiracy. I don't need my head examined.

I fully expect that TUSLA have accidentally made numerous errors in multiple files over many years. I don't believe that the social workers were adequately resourced to deal with their caseloads. Under resourcing will inevitably lead to these catastrophic errors.

https://www.thejournal.ie/social-worker-story-3536647-Aug2017/%3famp=1

Solutionking

KaneToad wrote: »

I thought that divulging that a fine had been expunged would be releasing confidential information. Unless the recipient of the favour directly contacted the guard who did the expunging and the guard acted alone. But if there were any intermediary involved, either guard or non guard, then confidential information would have been divulged. As far as I am aware, a guard isn't just allowed to pass information about an incident to another guard unless it directly relates to their job.

Anyways, I think I'm labouring the point. I fully accept that it may not be section 62. Other charges (or none) may be more applicable. These guards are innocent until proven otherwise.

As per your post - you specifically referred to guards, now you are throwing the net wider to include other 'bad/poor employees".

The guards in question here were not arrested for being bad/poor. They were arrested on the basis of suspected criminality. All employees, irrespective of organisation, are liable for arrest/charge due to criminal behaviour in their workplace.

Ok, first off nobody was arrested. As I already made the point you can't arrest a garda or anyone for poor performance at work. They have not committed a crime, they have just failed to do the paperwork for someone who did. In this case speeding fines etc.

No idea what you are talking about in regards to confidential information. Are you trying to say Gardai can't talk to each other about cases?

Laois_Man

Heres Johnny wrote: »

Yes, it happens but your story about your neigbour and her brother is completely and utterly made up.

And your post is completely guessed!

She's my wife's best friend. And it not a word of it is made up!

KaneToad

boardz wrote: »

For me I'm willing to accept some doing a favour for a family member/friend on low level stuff eg some traffic offences if it means the garda treat us -in general the way they do day to day compared to the way the police operate in most other countries ie automatons who just blindly follow every little rule (USA) or corrupt (take your pick). I know once you go down that road when do you say stop but I think when they overstep the mark like these may have it's more or less self correcting.

For me, I'm not willing to accept favours being done for family/friends by public servants. I think this type of culture contributed to a lot of what has been wrong in the history of this state.

Gregor Samsa

Solutionking wrote: »

Ok, first off nobody was arrested.

There have been other arrests in relation to this probe:

"A wider probe into alleged Garda corruption is continuing in the Munster region which has led to a number of gardai being arrested and questioned on suspicion of serious corrupt offences."

Source: https://www.limerickpost.ie/2020/11/08/eight-gardai-suspended-over-allegations-of-corruption-in-public-office-in-munster-region/

Solutionking

Gregor Samsa wrote: »

There have been other arrests in relation to this probe:

"A wider probe into alleged Garda corruption is continuing in the Munster region which has led to a number of gardai being arrested and questioned on suspicion of serious corrupt offences."

Source: https://www.limerickpost.ie/2020/11/08/eight-gardai-suspended-over-allegations-of-corruption-in-public-office-in-munster-region/

Which is not what this thread is about because the link contains zero information on what those people done. The title of the thread even confirms the people are suspended

KaneToad

Solutionking wrote: »

Ok, first off nobody was arrested. As I already made the point you can't arrest a garda or anyone for poor performance at work. They have not committed a crime, they have just failed to do the paperwork for someone who did. In this case speeding fines etc.

I take your point, given the thread title. I was referring to the overall investigation, not the suspension of the 8 Munster guards.

This investigation has already seen the arrest of 3 guards including a superintendent, who has hastily retired to avoid internal discipline.

Solutionking wrote: »

No idea what you are talking about in regards to confidential information. Are you trying to say Gardai can't talk to each other about cases?

That's exactly what I'm saying. Talking about cases for non-professional reasons (such as getting rid of fines for friends) is not part of their job. Talking about cases for professional reasons is perfectly reasonable.

There is a reason why the guards pulse programme is so heavily audited.

https://www.thejournal.ie/garda-pulse-1375747-Mar2014/%3famp=1

Heres Johnny

Laois_Man wrote: »

And your post is completely guessed!

She's my wife's best friend. And it not a word of it is made up!

It actually doesn't bother me that guards do this, its only traffic offences after all but I can't see how any guard would ring up other random guards they don't know and try get a ticket quashed. In fact, it doesn't happen, way too risky to be doing.

BPKS

The people getting on their high horse about this case are probably the same people who complain about a guard hiding behind a bush inside a 60kph zone

Laois_Man

Heres Johnny wrote: »

It actually doesn't bother me that guards do this, its only traffic offences after all but I can't see how any guard would ring up other random guards they don't know and try get a ticket quashed. In fact, it doesn't happen, way too risky to be doing.

Its not that risky in a force where its common practise

skooterblue2

BPKS wrote: »

The people getting on their high horse about this case are probably the same people who complain about a guard hiding behind a bush inside a 60kph zone

Dont drive and the Missus keeps well within the speed limit.

KaneToad

BPKS wrote: »

The people getting on their high horse about this case are probably the same people who complain about a guard hiding behind a bush inside a 60kph zone

I don't think it's being on a high horse. Demanding high ethical standards in public servants isn't a lofty ambition.

NuttyMcNutty

Just a question: If it was a copy and paste error were where they copying his details from?

Cluedo Monopoly

There were no disciplinary actions after the last inquiry around quashing penalty points...

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-30816687.html

Hundreds of gardaí were involved in widespread exploitation of the penalty point system which saw them wipe fines and points for friends and relatives.

The Garda Ombudsman found one officer cancelled 744 fixed charge notices across 17 counties during the four years it examined.

Gsoc said it will not be investigating individual officers for potential criminality or disciplinary issues as the bill for that has been estimated to run to more than €1million.

"The Ombudsman Commission believes that the considerable cost to the public of continuing our investigation into a second phase - of investigating specific cancellations instances with a view to identifying possible behaviour of a criminal nature or constituting a breach of discipline - would outweigh the benefit," the watchdog said.

There is also a significant risk for overspend, Gsoc said.

The watchdog also warned its work would be hampered by a lack of supporting documentation for large portions of the cancellations.

Too costly to investigate further...Great lesson there.

KaneToad

NuttyMcNutty wrote: »

Just a question: If it was a copy and paste error were where they copying his details from?

I don't think it's his details that were copied. It was someone else's details that were incorrectly pasted into his file.

There was already a file in TUSLA about Maurice McCabe due to incorrect allegations. McCabe had disciplined a guard in his office in 2006. After this occurred, the daughter of this guard - in the company of her parents- made a complaint about inappropriate behaviour towards her in 1998, by McCabe, when she was a six year old child.

The complaint was totally without foundation:

the Director of Public Prosecutions, when the file was reviewed, decided not to bring charges, that no criminal offence had been described, and queried how the girl’s parents could have concluded that a sexual assault had occurred given the events described.

tayto lover

The good thing to remember in this thread is that these people are being investigated, arrested, questioned and suspended from work by Garda members.

That for me is great. It’s also great for the Garda force.

If there is enough to prosecute them then the DPP and the courts will do what’s necessary and justice will be done.

Things are changing for the better imho.

stockshares

Article by Mick Clifford.
https://www.irishexaminer.com/opinion/commentanalysis/arid-40078859.html?type=amp&utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter&__twitter_impression=true

He says it's strange that what was once an investigation into organised crime and Garda corruption is now focusing on penalty points.

It also casts dome doubt on how the initial arrests of an Inspector and Superintendent came to be made .

Quote
the initial investigation focused on alleged links with organised crime. Squaring speeding offences is wrong, but it’s a long way from the original premise for an investigation.

What is the NBCI, which investigates serious crime, doing looking into speeding tickets?

Tow

One too many and driving a state car. RTE are concerned over which limit he is over! The Garda are learning and not trying to cover this incident up.

Garda driver arrested on suspicion of drink-driving
http://www.rte.ie/news/2020/1110/1177216-garda-driver-arrest/

Atlantic Dawn

Tow wrote: »

One too many and driving a state car. RTE are concerned over which limit he is over! The Garda are learning and not trying to cover this incident up.

Garda driver arrested on suspicion of drink-driving
http://www.rte.ie/news/2020/1110/1177216-garda-driver-arrest/

Would love to know whether Gardai are subject to the lower limits of professional drivers or the same as Joe Public?

ohnonotgmail

Tow wrote: »

One too many and driving a state car. RTE are concerned over which limit he is over! The Garda are learning and not trying to cover this incident up.

Garda driver arrested on suspicion of drink-driving
http://www.rte.ie/news/2020/1110/1177216-garda-driver-arrest/

I'd love to know if he was carrying his firearm while pissed enough to crash his car.

Rows Grower

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

Would love to know whether Gardai are subject to the lower limits of professional drivers or the same as Joe Public?

Would have to be the same limits as all professional drivers.

JohnnyFlash

Drew Harris really is doing a great job as Commissioner so far.

Atlantic Dawn

Rows Grower wrote: »

Would have to be the same limits as all professional drivers.

Seems to be a grey area, I can't find anything online to suggest the Garda driver limit is the lower professional driver limit.

The drink driving limit is 50mg of alcohol per 100ml of blood, however for "specified drivers", a lower limit of 20mg of alcohol per 100ml of blood applies.

A "specified driver" includes learner drivers, novice drivers, professional and commercial drivers.

It is not clear if the garda driver will be deemed a professional driver because while taxi and lorry drivers are mentioned in the legislation, gardaí are not.

https://www.rte.ie/news/2020/1110/1177216-garda-driver-arrest


Can't see a definition of a specified person...

(b) in case the person is a specified person, 20 milligrammes of alcohol per 100 millilitres of blood.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2010/act/25/section/5/enacted/en/html#sec5


A solicitors take on specified person...

• the holder of a learner permit;
• the holder of a new driving licence gained within the last two years;
• the holder of a driving licence licensing the holder to drive a vehicle in certain categories;
• the holder of a licence to drive certain small public service vehicles, such as taxi’s, in certain circumstances;
• does not hold a licence for the correct category of vehicle, or did not hold such licence within a certain time period around the offence;
• in certain circumstances when a breathalyser indicates alcohol in the breath and the holder cannot produce a licence to the An Garda Síochána.

https://www.homs.ie/publications/new-drink-driving-limits/

worded

Harry Palmr wrote: »

The GAA is like the worlds most public secret society.

Decent country lad
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7URKJCagRio

Eric Cartman

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

Drew Harris really is doing a great job as Commissioner so far.

He genuinely is, and with no garda friends to cover for , he’s actually cleaning up the force

paw patrol

KaneToad wrote: »

Why attack the poster and not the post? Can your argument not stand on its own merits?

I don't believe it was a TUSLA & guards conspiracy. I don't need my head examined.

I fully expect that TUSLA have accidentally made numerous errors in multiple files over many years. I don't believe that the social workers were adequately resourced to deal with their caseloads. Under resourcing will inevitably lead to these catastrophic errors.

https://www.thejournal.ie/social-worker-story-3536647-Aug2017/%3famp=1

fair enough, it was just expression used perhaps in incredulity at your opinion. I didn't mean you were actually mentally deficient .

Ten of Swords

This is before the courts

Thread closed