Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Security of Tenure for Tenants

Options
1246

Comments

  • Options
    #92
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    Graces7 wrote: »
    My lasting impression from my many years of renting privately is that most landlords do not know the laws. let alone obey them.

    They will continue to do that if people keep renting off them.


  • Options
    #93
    brisan
    Registered Users Posts: 2,242 ✭✭✭brisan


    beauf wrote: »
    They will continue to do that if people keep renting off them.

    Or unless they are forced legally to do so


  • Options
    #94
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    brisan wrote: »
    Or unless they are forced legally to do so

    The RTB aren't psychic.


  • Options
    #95
    brisan
    Registered Users Posts: 2,242 ✭✭✭brisan


    beauf wrote: »
    The RTB aren't psychic.

    No but there are no inspections no enforcements
    A quick glance through DAFT will show them properties that are non compliant
    The RTB are not fit for purpose
    If you ring up as either a tenant or a landlord the first question they ask is “ Is the property registered “
    That is irrelevant for the tenant because their grievance or question has to addressed even if the property is not registered
    All the are interested in is getting the registration fee.
    Complaints can take weeks even before COVID before they are acknowledged.
    Speaking from experience here as one tenant I had went through the RTB for everything ,even before contacting me


  • Options
    #96
    Dav010
    Registered Users Posts: 14,523 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    brisan wrote: »
    No but there are no inspections no enforcements
    A quick glance through DAFT will show them properties that are non compliant
    The RTB are not fit for purpose
    If you ring up as either a tenant or a landlord the first question they ask is “ Is the property registered “
    That is irrelevant for the tenant because their grievance or question has to addressed even if the property is not registered
    All the are interested in is getting the registration fee.
    Complaints can take weeks even before COVID before they are acknowledged.
    Speaking from experience here as one tenant I had went through the RTB for everything ,even before contacting me

    Considering they are the body responsible for the register, of course it is practical to ask if the tenancy is registered at the outset, what is the issue with this?


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #97
    Graces7
    Registered Users Posts: 32,634 ✭✭✭✭Graces7


    Dav010 wrote: »
    Considering they are the body responsible for the register, of cours e it is practical to ask if the tenancy is registered at the outset, what is the issue with this?

    Exactly and if it is not registered RTB can still take action and then some. It is a good indication of the "quality" of the landlord. ( sorry. wrong word!)


  • Options
    #98
    brisan
    Registered Users Posts: 2,242 ✭✭✭brisan


    Dav010 wrote: »
    Considering they are the body responsible for the register, of course it is practical to ask if the tenancy is registered at the outset, what is the issue with this?

    The issue is their main concern is the registration fee
    They are slow inefficient and not fit for purpose any more


  • Options
    #99
    Dav010
    Registered Users Posts: 14,523 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    Graces7 wrote: »
    Exactly and if it is not registered RTB can still take action and then some. It is a good indication of the "quality" of the landlord. ( sorry. wrong word!)

    Presumably it also makes communication with tenant/LL shorter/faster if the RTB are able to look up the registration details while on the phone, it just shows that people will find any reason to complain, even when the provider is acting reasonably and correctly.


  • Options
    #100
    brisan
    Registered Users Posts: 2,242 ✭✭✭brisan


    Graces7 wrote: »
    Exactly and if it is not registered RTB can still take action and then some. It is a good indication of the "quality" of the landlord. ( sorry. wrong word!)

    I would not say being registered with the RTB is any indication of the quality of a landlord
    Some landlords think being registered absolves them of other responsibilities


  • Options
    #101
    Dav010
    Registered Users Posts: 14,523 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    brisan wrote: »
    I would not say being registered with the RTB is any indication of the quality of a landlord
    Some landlords think being registered absolves them of other responsibilities

    They are just not fit for purpose, because they ask if the tenancy is registered when you call? Surely the details of the tenancy are pertinent?


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #102
    brisan
    Registered Users Posts: 2,242 ✭✭✭brisan


    Dav010 wrote: »
    Presumably it also makes communication with tenant/LL shorter/faster if the RTB are able to look up the registration details while on the phone, it just shows that people will find any reason to complain, even when the provider is acting reasonably and correctly.

    One example
    When we were landlords and registered we had one tenant complain to the RTB that a bedroom window would not lock
    It took over 8 weeks for the RTB to contact me about the complaint
    The RTB contacting me was the first I heard of it as the tenant had not contacted me about it
    Why did it take 8 weeks to make a phone call ?
    Issue was fixed 2 days later as it would have been done if the tenant had contacted me directly
    I know of tenants who had rents increased from 1150 to 1600 on an RPZ and complained to RTB
    6 weeks later still no reply and they had to move out due to pressure from landlord
    When eventually contacted what do you think the RTB said
    Nothing we can do now you should not have moved out
    Landlord advertised the property for 1750 euro on daft with no BER
    How many landlords have tenants overholding or not paying rent and the RTB drag their feet
    As I said not fit for purpose anymore either for tenants or landlords
    Either give them more resources and powers or replace them with something else


  • Options
    #103
    Dav010
    Registered Users Posts: 14,523 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    brisan wrote: »
    One example
    When we were landlords and registered we had one tenant complain to the RTB that a bedroom window would not lock
    It took over 8 weeks for the RTB to contact me about the complaint
    The RTB contacting me was the first I heard of it as the tenant had not contacted me about it
    Why did it take 8 weeks to make a phone call ?
    Issue was fixed 2 days later as it would have been done if the tenant had contacted me directly
    I know of tenants who had rents increased from 1150 to 1600 on an RPZ and complained to RTB
    6 weeks later still no reply and they had to move out due to pressure from landlord
    When eventually contacted what do you think the RTB said
    Nothing we can do now you should not have moved out
    Landlord advertised the property for 1750 euro on daft with no BER
    How many landlords have tenants overholding or not paying rent and the RTB drag their feet
    As I said not fit for purpose anymore either for tenants or landlords
    Either give them more resources and powers or replace them with something else

    Surely that is a discussion you should have had with your tenant, the delay was caused by them going to the RTB instead of you.


  • Options
    #104
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    brisan wrote: »
    No but there are no inspections no enforcements ...

    There are inspections and enforcement's...

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/more-than-80-of-private-rental-accommodation-fail-tests-1.3977156%3fmode=amp

    You see enforcement's reported on a regular basis. I'm not going to search for them as it's too hard to find stats on the RTB.


  • Options
    #105
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    brisan wrote: »
    One example
    When we were landlords and registered we had one tenant complain to the RTB that a bedroom window would not lock
    It took over 8 weeks for the RTB to contact me about the complaint
    ....


    That is not the purpose of the RTB. If the landlord has failed to repair the window that's what you go to the RTB with.


  • Options
    #106
    brisan
    Registered Users Posts: 2,242 ✭✭✭brisan


    Dav010 wrote: »
    Surely that is a discussion you should have had with your tenant, the delay was caused by them going to the RTB instead of you.

    Exactly the tenant should have come to me first
    Every small complaint he had , washing machine broke , extract fan not working properly ( filter caked with grease ) window not locking he went straight to the RTB and not to me.
    I told him and the RTB told him to contact me first
    He was the only tenant we had that done this
    Still does not deflect from the fact it took the RTB 8 weeks to contact me over a possible security issue with the window , or 6 weeks to get back to a tenant that was being illegally evicted due to an illegal rent increase
    They seem to be a slow disinterested govt .org that are no longer fit for purpose


  • Options
    #107
    s1ippy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,980 ✭✭✭s1ippy


    On that article about people saying that they felt insecure renting since the pandemic, literally around half of the people I personally know who are renting have been evicted. Despite the "eviction ban", which is a ridiculous name because there was a gigantic break in the middle which enabled landlords to serve their notice.

    We live with family and pay a small amount of rent and for all household expenses (repairs, services) since being evicted in midst of all this, as grown adults who can well afford to pay a mortgage, except that our mortgage approval was withdrawn when my spouse was furloughed from their job. In spite of this temporary situation, since the beginning of the year we now have twice the amount of money for the deposit saved because we're doing nothing.

    Anyone else I know who has been evicted is either living with family or friends or in a worse renting situation now.

    This is how FFFG like it, I'm not surprised in the slightest. They're all landlords like.


  • Options
    #108
    Dav010
    Registered Users Posts: 14,523 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    brisan wrote: »
    Exactly the tenant should have come to me first
    Every small complaint he had , washing machine broke , extract fan not working properly ( filter caked with grease ) window not locking he went straight to the RTB and not to me.
    I told him and the RTB told him to contact me first
    He was the only tenant we had that done this
    Still does not deflect from the fact it took the RTB 8 weeks to contact me over a possible security issue with the window , or 6 weeks to get back to a tenant that was being illegally evicted due to an illegal rent increase
    They seem to be a slow disinterested govt .org that are no longer fit for purpose

    Not that I think the RTB are any great shakes, but saying they are unfit because they asked if you are registered, and having advised the tenant that they should have contacted you directly, they then took a bit of time doing something that most would consider low priority, is a bit harsh. I suspect they had better things to be getting on with.


  • Options
    #109
    brisan
    Registered Users Posts: 2,242 ✭✭✭brisan


    Dav010 wrote: »
    Not that I think the RTB are any great shakes, but saying they are unfit because they asked if you are registered, and having advised the tenant that they should have contacted you directly, they then took a bit of time doing something that most would consider low priority, is a bit harsh. I suspect they had better things to be getting on with.

    Like waiting 6 weeks to get back to a tenant who was being illegally evicted due to an illegal rent increase
    Any competent organisation would have dealt with that within a couple of days
    I know someone who’s son works for threshold and every complaint is dealt with or acknowledged within 2 or 3 days
    Once the RTB got the illegal eviction complaint what was stopping them making a 5 min phone call to tell the landlord he could not raise the rent by 450 a month and if he had a complaint to lodge it
    Just sheer laziness and paperwork shifting


  • Options
    #110
    nibtrix
    Registered Users Posts: 1,305 ✭✭✭nibtrix


    eleventh wrote: »
    I think you're over-estimating the element of change a bit. Most lives don't change that suddenly or unpredictably. If a family expands, there's 9 months notice.

    What if you're 1 year into a 3 year lease or a 5 year lease on an apartment that's now not large enough? If you had a one year lease then you might be able to move to a larger place before it becomes a major issue, with a long lease you could be either stuck until it ends or else losing a large deposit at a time when you already have additional costs.
    eleventh wrote: »
    Relationship ending, well a LL could prevent that to an extent by not allowing non-married couples.
    :eek::eek: Not only is this discriminatory (legally!!) but you're still accepting the risk of relationship breakdown as part of the gamble of a long term lease...
    eleventh wrote: »
    If a job is lost, should have some savings for a few months, or go on welfare to supplement.

    Agreed. In an ideal situation you'll have enough savings to see you through any situation. However, how likely are people to have enough savings to continue to pay 3+ years of rent? Or to be able to lose their deposit at a time when they have no income?


  • Options
    #111
    Dav010
    Registered Users Posts: 14,523 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    brisan wrote: »
    Like waiting 6 weeks to get back to a tenant who was being illegally evicted due to an illegal rent increase
    Any competent organisation would have dealt with that within a couple of days
    I know someone who’s son works for threshold and every complaint is dealt with or acknowledged within 2 or 3 days
    Once the RTB got the illegal eviction complaint what was stopping them making a 5 min phone call to tell the landlord he could not raise the rent by 450 a month and if he had a complaint to lodge it
    Just sheer laziness and paperwork shifting

    Makes me wonder why it took you two days to fix the window. They deal with hundreds/thousands of serious complaints, you only had one minor one.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #112
    brisan
    Registered Users Posts: 2,242 ✭✭✭brisan


    Dav010 wrote: »
    Makes me wonder why it took you two days to fix the window. They deal with hundreds/thousands of serious complaints, you only had one minor one.
    Because I needed a new lock for the window and it took a day to source one
    RTB contacted me late in the day so it was the next day to get a lock and handle
    and the following day to fit it

    Must be an awful lot of really bad landlords and tenants out there if they have thousands of cases on the go at any one time
    Glad I was not one of them ��


  • Options
    #113
    Fol20
    Registered Users Posts: 3,624 ✭✭✭Fol20


    brisan wrote: »
    By law a rent book must be provided ,how many do ,granted bank statements make it an obsolete rule but it is still the law
    They must provide a microwave ,how many do

    It is not law that you need to provide a rent book - I only know this as i had an awkward tenant that went legal on me for other reasons but this was part of his dispute. As long as the ll provides a lease, this is sufficient.

    I actually dont understand why ll need to provide a microwave. Yes they are handy however from a health point of view, it is always better to cook fresh food and as you will have an oven and cooker, this should be enough.


  • Options
    #114
    Fol20
    Registered Users Posts: 3,624 ✭✭✭Fol20


    eleventh wrote: »
    I don't know if tenants are complaining? I'm a tenant. I'm not complaining from the tenant side.
    For me the worst thing about the situation is the idea that a tenant can 'overhold'. It's just so wrong. It ruins it for everyone.
    A landlord has one bad experience, all tenants then tarred with the same brush.
    I would say it's very tiny number of tenants doing this crime.
    I see this is as the root of the problem as far as tenants being concerned about security etc. If a landlord was free to evict non-paying tenant, the system is free to move as it should, landlord less likely to want to sell, etc

    Risk plays does play a role when deciding where to invest. So many ll have been burned and then decide run from the rental market. The only way to fix the rental supply is to increase the amount of rental stock.

    Im not sure from an investing point of view to attract more ll into the market would this help as investing should be about the cold hard numbers. Risk is factored in as well dont get me wrong but its mainly about the money you make and with taxation the way it is, it makes it very punitive for investors.

    To give you an example. Lets say you buy a 400k apartment with rent of 2000 a month

    2000*12/400,000=6pc yield.
    This disregards the fact the costs to purchase the home, to maintain the home, advertising and other costs incurred in the letting process. Usually i would subtract at least 2months a year for costs but i will leave it at 12months for this illustration.

    If you put the same 400k into some dividend stocks such as at & t, you can get above a 7pc dividend. Stocks are liquid, require no work(no extra costs), low costs to buy in and sell and you also receive more money on a yearly basis makes it a hard sell to buy property.


  • Options
    #115
    Fol20
    Registered Users Posts: 3,624 ✭✭✭Fol20


    Graces7 wrote: »
    My lasting impression from my many years of renting privately is that most landlords do not know the laws. let alone obey them.

    How many landlords have you had in your renting life just out of interest?


  • Options
    #116
    Fol20
    Registered Users Posts: 3,624 ✭✭✭Fol20


    DubCount wrote: »
    Landlords are not paying - tenants are.

    Tenants pay higher prices for lower quality rentals, and have less security as well. The only answer is supply and lots of it. Eviction bans, rent controls, anti-discrimination against HAP, pointless RTB processes, allowing overholding...... All these things are supposed to help tenants, but all they do is reduce supply. Landlords dont pay for this - tenants do.

    Good tenants and good ll pay for the sins of all the rental issues.

    LL have incurred more costs in recent years - usc, lpt, legal costs, rtb costs, more risk etc.


  • Options
    #117
    Fol20
    Registered Users Posts: 3,624 ✭✭✭Fol20


    s1ippy wrote: »
    literally around half of the people I personally know who are renting have been evicted. Despite the "eviction ban", which is a ridiculous name because there was a gigantic break in the middle which enabled landlords to serve their notice.

    Not to be flippant here but how many people do you know if half of them have been evicted in the past 6 months?

    The eviction ban was introduced this year and i highly doubt the majority of the people you know that are renting were evicted during this period.


  • Options
    #118
    Graces7
    Registered Users Posts: 32,634 ✭✭✭✭Graces7


    brisan wrote: »
    I would not say being registered with the RTB is any indication of the quality of a landlord
    Some landlords think being registered absolves them of other responsibilities

    The word I was seeking was " legality"/respect for the law ! And yes that does show responsibility and respect for the rules which is a good place to start for a landlord.


  • Options
    #119
    Graces7
    Registered Users Posts: 32,634 ✭✭✭✭Graces7


    Fol20 wrote: »
    How many landlords have you had in your renting life just out of interest?

    Not counting the council? I think 9 maybe 10... More if you count spouses. Three of them never forgave me for leaving.


  • Options
    #120
    brisan
    Registered Users Posts: 2,242 ✭✭✭brisan


    Fol20 wrote: »
    It is not law that you need to provide a rent book - I only know this as i had an awkward tenant that went legal on me for other reasons but this was part of his dispute. As long as the ll provides a lease, this is sufficient.

    I actually dont understand why ll need to provide a microwave. Yes they are handy however from a health point of view, it is always better to cook fresh food and as you will have an oven and cooker, this should be enough.
    Weather it’s logical or healthy is not relevant
    It’s the law and a lot of tenants will use microwaves

    Regarding rent books
    You say that are not required while this says different

    https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/housing/renting_a_home/rent_books.html


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #121
    Dav010
    Registered Users Posts: 14,523 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    brisan wrote: »
    Weather it’s logical or healthy is not relevant
    It’s the law and a lot of tenants will use microwaves

    Regarding rent books
    You say that are not required while this says different

    https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/housing/renting_a_home/rent_books.html

    The reality is that electronic payments have done away with the necessity of rent books which were primarily used to record cash payments.


Advertisement