Security of Tenure for Tenants

Fol20

Graces7 wrote: »

Not counting the council? I think 9 maybe 10... More if you count spouses. Three of them never forgave me for leaving.

Ok that’s a good few dodgy ll. I was expecting you to be a renter that might have stayed in one place for 5-10years.

Graces7

Fol20 wrote: »

I actually dont understand why ll need to provide a microwave. Yes they are handy however from a health point of view, it is always better to cook fresh food and as you will have an oven and cooker, this should be enough.

They are very cost effective and fast. They cook fresh food too of course.

Graces7

[QUOT E=Fol20;115278064]Ok that’s a good few dodgy ll. I was expecting you to be a renter that might have stayed in one place for 5-10years.[/QUOTE]

lol....The longest was over four years and he was so upset; he hit a family crisis and had to sell. I had done his paperwork so knew he was genuine.

It was more dodgy houses than landlords; sheer ignorance re the laws. Which of course is what dodgy landlords do in sheer ignorance rather than wilful skulduggery.

Mould, floods.....spiders.... rats...

I keep meaning to write it all up!

But I still wake up sometimes wondering which house I am in.

Fol20

brisan wrote: »

Weather it’s logical or healthy is not relevant
It’s the law and a lot of tenants will use microwaves

Regarding rent books
You say that are not required while this says different

https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/housing/renting_a_home/rent_books.html

Im not disputing its not the law, i accept in it is mandatory and i am saying i believe it should not be. If we really want to get to a system they have in mainland europe where their rental system is much better, it should be unfurnished and the fact a ll has to provide a microwave shows that ll are forced to provide too much crap.


I had discussed this with my solicitor at the time as i had other issues as well and as long as you provide a lease and electronic payments, you are fine.

Threshold site link also backs this up:
https://www.threshold.ie/advice/seeking-private-rented-accommodation/should-i-be-given-a-rent-book-or-lease/

beauf

s1ippy wrote: »

On that article about people saying that they felt insecure renting since the pandemic, literally around half of the people I personally know who are renting have been evicted. Despite the "eviction ban", which is a ridiculous name because there was a gigantic break in the middle which enabled landlords to serve their notice.

We live with family and pay a small amount of rent and for all household expenses (repairs, services) since being evicted in midst of all this, as grown adults who can well afford to pay a mortgage, except that our mortgage approval was withdrawn when my spouse was furloughed from their job. In spite of this temporary situation, since the beginning of the year we now have twice the amount of money for the deposit saved because we're doing nothing.

Anyone else I know who has been evicted is either living with family or friends or in a worse renting situation now.

This is how FFFG like it, I'm not surprised in the slightest. They're all landlords like.

You have to ask. What was the thinking behind getting the LL to cover the cost of other people's housing in the lockdown and what did the govt expect would happen if was it was unsustainable for the LL other than they would exit the market. What did they think this would do to rental supply at the lower end of the market.

beauf

Graces7 wrote: »

[QUOT E=Fol20;115278064]Ok that’s a good few dodgy ll. I was expecting you to be a renter that might have stayed in one place for 5-10years.

Graces7 wrote: »

lol....The longest was over four years and he was so upset; he hit a family crisis and had to sell. I had done his paperwork so knew he was genuine.

It was more dodgy houses than landlords; sheer ignorance re the laws. Which of course is what dodgy landlords do in sheer ignorance rather than wilful skulduggery.

Mould, floods.....spiders.... rats...

I keep meaning to write it all up!

But I still wake up sometimes wondering which house I am in.

Spiders?

brisan

Dav010 wrote: »

The reality is that electronic payments have done away with the necessity of rent books which were primarily used to record cash payments.

I agree but they are still a legal requirement , weather you I or thousands of others think they are redundant

brisan

Fol20 wrote: »

Im not disputing its not the law, i accept in it is mandatory and i am saying i believe it should not be. If we really want to get to a system they have in mainland europe where their rental system is much better, it should be unfurnished and the fact a ll has to provide a microwave shows that ll are forced to provide too much crap.


I had discussed this with my solicitor at the time as i had other issues as well and as long as you provide a lease and electronic payments, you are fine.

Threshold site link also backs this up:
https://www.threshold.ie/advice/seeking-private-rented-accommodation/should-i-be-given-a-rent-book-or-lease/

You may be fine and they may not prosecute you but it does not change the fact it’s the law
There is no point in you or me or your solicitor arguing that they are unnecessary but the fact still remains it’s the law , same as microwaves or proper clothes drying facilities
If the laws don’t suit or you think they are stupid
Either lobby to have them changed or stop renting out property

beauf

brisan wrote: »

Because I needed a new lock for the window and it took a day to source one
RTB contacted me late in the day so it was the next day to get a lock and handle
and the following day to fit it

Must be an awful lot of really bad landlords and tenants out there if they have thousands of cases on the go at any one time
Glad I was not one of them ��

But you were one of them it went via the RTB? No?

I guess you'll argue it wasn't a "case"...

How many tenancies are their in Ireland. A million?

Graces7

beauf wrote: »

Spiders?

YOU know? Those great hairy things with all those nasty long legs!

Graces7

Fol20 wrote: »

Im not disputing its not the law, i accept in it is mandatory and i am saying i believe it should not be. If we really want to get to a system they have in mainland europe where their rental system is much better, it should be unfurnished and the fact a ll has to provide a microwave shows that ll are forced to provide too much crap.

Yep...... a lot of crap in many rentals.

beauf

Graces7 wrote: »

YOU know? Those great hairy things with all those nasty long legs!

...and....what about them? Was their an infestation of Spiders?

Fol20

brisan wrote: »

I agree but they are still a legal requirement , weather you I or thousands of others think they are redundant

I suppose we will agree to disagree on this. Citizen info is not the law and only provides guidance on something similar to the threshold site that i provided. You would need to read the entire legal document to show it is needed and right now given both of the reputable sites provide different info say otherwise.

brisan

beauf wrote: »

But you were one of them it went via the RTB? No?

I guess you'll argue it wasn't a "case"...

How many tenancies are their in Ireland. A million?

How many tenants bypass a landlord and go straight to the RTB
very few
Bit of a difference in priority in a dodgy window lock and an illegal eviction
Surely someone in there has a pay grade high enough to make that call or are all cases dealt with on a call centre basis , first come first served ??
I would query the million of private tenancies covered by the RTB

blackbox

Fol20 wrote: »

I actually dont understand why ll need to provide a microwave. Yes they are handy however from a health point of view, it is always better to cook fresh food and as you will have an oven and cooker, this should be enough.

Is it no longer permissable to let an unfurnished apartment?

brisan

blackbox wrote: »

Is it no longer permissable to let an unfurnished apartment?

But some lads don’t agree with the rules and regulations and think they should not apply to them

Graces7

beauf wrote: »

...and....what about them? Was their an infestation of Spiders?

Oh yes indeed in one house that had been empty years. Everywhere spiders and webs

I was on the phone to Canada one day when this huge eggladen thing descended on me. They heard the scream in Canada.

One room upstairs; the Velux window was thick with cobwebs. I left them to it in there.

One thing re the rentals. It is almost always the men who fix them up? Rarely see their wives

eleventh

nibtrix wrote: »

What if you're 1 year into a 3 year lease or a 5 year lease on an apartment that's now not large enough? If you had a one year lease then you might be able to move to a larger place before it becomes a major issue, with a long lease you could be either stuck until it ends or else losing a large deposit at a time when you already have additional costs.

....you're still accepting the risk of relationship breakdown as part of the gamble of a long term lease...

....how likely are people to have enough savings to continue to pay 3+ years of rent? Or to be able to lose their deposit at a time when they have no income?

I think you're splitting hairs a bit on what was meant to be a general point - i.e. that shorter-term and long-term should be treated differently, or separately.

Responsibilty on the part of a tenant to commit to something with awareness of what suits their life-stage and circumstance would be an ingredient - so to answer your questions, if you have a couple moving with no idea whether they'll get married or have kids then they're probably not suited to commit to a place for a length of time and would be happier with something that renews month by month or 3-monthly, maybe 6-monthly.

A long-term let could be renewed every 2 - 3 years.

For each there would be options to extend indefinitely, and a 'get out' clause.
The main difference being, one has a committment from the start with higher penalty for leaving. The other is a low commitment, low-risk.

It would mean security of tenure for those who want it; less/none for those who don't.

beauf

brisan wrote: »

How many tenants bypass a landlord and go straight to the RTB
very few
Bit of a difference in priority in a dodgy window lock and an illegal eviction
Surely someone in there has a pay grade high enough to make that call or are all cases dealt with on a call centre basis , first come first served ??
I would query the million of private tenancies covered by the RTB

You have to ask why harp on about a windows then when its largely irreverent.

Are you suggesting that someone on a high pay grade should filter these queries? That would be an odd use of resources.

More likely due to the demands of GDPR and requirements to record every interaction in case its queried and thus has to be recorded. All queries follow a similar process. Those that are processing them have no ability to deviate from the formal process. The are under resourced and thus backlogged.

They have got a lot better in recent years. They used to be a lot further behind. The last interaction I had with them only took 8~10 weeks, start to end.

beauf

Graces7 wrote: »

Oh yes indeed in one house that had been empty years. Everywhere spiders and webs

I was on the phone to Canada one day when this huge eggladen thing descended on me. They heard the scream in Canada.

One room upstairs; the Velux window was thick with cobwebs. I left them to it in there.

One thing re the rentals. It is almost always the men who fix them up? Rarely see their wives

With respect, they didn't just appear over night. If it had been empty for years, this would have been apparent before moving in. I know needs must and all that, but if a LL presents a place in a decrepit state. The LL professionalism is not going to improve after a tenants moves in.

Fol20

blackbox wrote: »

Is it no longer permissable to let an unfurnished apartment?

You can let semi unfurnished in that beds and couches dont need to be provided but since the culture in ireland is that renting is temporary, most are not looking for this so ll are forced to get the cheapest crap they can find so that they can target 99pc of the rental market.

It is semi furnished as ll need to provide a fridge, microwave, washing machine etc.

Fol20

brisan wrote: »

But some lads don’t agree with the rules and regulations and think they should not apply to them

Im not sure if you were directing that at me. I never said i didnt follow the rules, i just dont agree with some of rules. Im sure there is laws in Ireland that you abide by but do not agree with

10pennymixup

blackbox wrote: »

Is it no longer permissable to let an unfurnished apartment?

Not as far as I know. There are the minimum rental regs, that a LL has to provide a microwave, cooker, fridge, heating, H&C water etc.

But I don't know of anything compelling them to provide anything outside of the min standards regulations such as a bed or even a toaster.

Suits some tenants, not others, but seems to be becoming a bit more common the last few years.

Graces7

beauf wrote: »

With respect, they didn't just appear over night. If it had been empty for years, this would have been apparent before moving in. I know needs must and all that, but if a LL presents a place in a decrepit state. The LL professionalism is not going to improve after a tenants moves in.

In that case I did not view. It was far too far away from where I was living and the agent assured me all was well.

This was deep rural and so very few houses available at all. And spiders etc tend to come with the territory. It was not decrepit; just needed to be lived in and loved.
Lovely new bathroom suite..

There were far more rooms than I needed so that was fine. I have to get low cost rentals. And was very lucky to find anywhere that year ..

It has a huge garden area that they cleared for me with a digger. Grew and sold flowers and vegetables.

That was a 4 year plus rental too..

Graces7

10pennymixup wrote: »

Not as far as I know. There are the minimum rental regs, that a LL has to provide a microwave, cooker, fridge, heating, H&C water etc.

But I don't know of anything compelling them to provide anything outside of the min standards regulations such as a bed or even a toaster.

Suits some tenants, not others, but seems to be becoming a bit more common the last few years.

I look at UK houses on Rightmove and the scene there is very different. But the cost of setting up in an unfurnished house..

beauf

Graces7 wrote: »

In that case I did not view. It was far too far away from where I was living and the agent assured me all was well.

This was deep rural and so very few houses available at all. And spiders etc tend to come with the territory. It was not decrepit; just needed to be lived in and loved.
Lovely new bathroom suite..

There were far more rooms than I needed so that was fine. I have to get low cost rentals. And was very lucky to find anywhere that year ..

It has a huge garden area that they cleared for me with a digger. Grew and sold flowers and vegetables.

That was a 4 year plus rental too..

Kind of a different spin on it there Grace

Graces7 wrote: »

...
It was more dodgy houses than landlords; sheer ignorance re the laws. Which of course is what dodgy landlords do in sheer ignorance rather than wilful skulduggery.

Mould, floods.....spiders.... rats...

....

brisan

Fol20 wrote: »

Im not sure if you were directing that at me. I never said i didnt follow the rules, i just dont agree with some of rules. Im sure there is laws in Ireland that you abide by but do not agree with

Sorry if you took it up wrong it was not directed at you

brisan

beauf wrote: »

You have to ask why harp on about a windows then when its largely irreverent.

Are you suggesting that someone on a high pay grade should filter these queries? That would be an odd use of resources.

More likely due to the demands of GDPR and requirements to record every interaction in case its queried and thus has to be recorded. All queries follow a similar process. Those that are processing them have no ability to deviate from the formal process. The are under resourced and thus backlogged.

They have got a lot better in recent years. They used to be a lot further behind. The last interaction I had with them only took 8~10 weeks, start to end.

8-10 weeks is still too long for a serious complaint by either a landlord or a tenant

eleventh

Fol20 wrote: »

...Im not sure from an investing point of view to attract more ll into the market would this help as investing should be about the cold hard numbers. Risk is factored in as well dont get me wrong but its mainly about the money you make and with taxation the way it is, it makes it very punitive for investors.

To give you an example. Lets say you buy a 400k apartment with rent of 2000 a month

2000*12/400,000=6pc yield.
This disregards the fact the costs to purchase the home, to maintain the home, advertising and other costs incurred in the letting process. Usually i would subtract at least 2months a year for costs but i will leave it at 12months for this illustration. ...

All my rentals (with one 1-year exception) have been where the house/apartment/building was owned.
The idea of a LL depending on rent to pay the mortgage on the property was not a thing until fairly recently. I would say it began in the tiger years and increasing since to a point it's now seen as normal. It's not how it should be.

nibtrix

eleventh wrote: »

I think you're splitting hairs a bit on what was meant to be a general point - i.e. that shorter-term and long-term should be treated differently, or separately.

Ok, apologies, I do get you. I just believe from a practical viewpoint that there would be relatively few cases where it would work out for both tenant and landlord, and the cost and complexity of legislating for such a system wouldn't be worth it in the greater scheme of things.