Abolishing county councils for provincial?

joemurt

Given all the corruption and financial waste that goes on at county council level, should they be removed and replaced with 4 provincial councils?


Would also address concerns of the unionist community in Ulster that think they would have no say in political matters on the island if there was a vote to re-unite.



County councils are so inefficient, unaccountable, parochial be much better value for money and transparent on matters of planning etc.



Yay or nay? (Grifter CCers please don't have a say, voters only)

Smee_Again

Nay.

ive read your post at least one more time than it deserves, but ive failed to see the evidence of corruption and waste that would allow one to give an informed opinion on whatever your proposed replacement would be

imma vote no in the meantime

onrail

No

blanch152

joemurt wrote: »

Given all the corruption and financial waste that goes on at county council level, should they be removed and replaced with 4 provincial councils?


Would also address concerns of the unionist community in Ulster that think they would have no say in political matters on the island if there was a vote to re-unite.



County councils are so inefficient, unaccountable, parochial be much better value for money and transparent on matters of planning etc.



Yay or nay? (Grifter CCers please don't have a say, voters only)

I don't think county councils are necessarily corrupt. There was a time in the 1970s and 1980s when the Dublin councils were corrupt with George Redmond featuring in that but it isn't something that is widespread today.

However, they are completely inefficient. I wouldn't replace them with provincial councils though. Linked to the National Development Plan, I would create Metropolitan Areas to focus on cities such as Waterford, Cork, Limerick, Galway and Sligo, with a brief to develop them and their hinterlands/catchment areas. Amalgamations of the remaining rural councils would bring efficiency and could be better.

Geuze

We already have massively reduced the number of local councils.

Pre 2014 = 114

Now = 31

Our councils are large by international standards,

Personally think we need to be planning for an Ireland when the Stormont assembly is part of our government system. I don't think anyone really thinks a United Ireland is going to do away with that talking shop.

Question would be where to locate Connacht, Munster and Leinster's equivalent of Stormont and what powers these regional assemblies will have. Afaik we already have intermittent regional assemblies between the elected councils, not sure on that though, but they have no power and no central building (with attached administrative staff).

katiek102010

I don't think abolishing them is the way to go.

I do however think that services such as housing should be centralised, with possibly a provincial sub division. The housing system is crazy the way it operates on county boarders only and you can only apply to 1 County.

I think planning would be a nightmare if it was handled on a larger level than county

BailMeOut

any examples of corruption and financial waste?

Pkiernan

What would the professional and highly paid and pensioned loafers do if the CCs were abolished?

Not like they'd waltz in to a job with consequences that easily.

blanch152

Geuze wrote: »

We already have massively reduced the number of local councils.

Pre 2014 = 114

Now = 31

Our councils are large by international standards,

True, but a redrawing of boundaries to create regional councils with the focus of building up cities is a good idea.

District councils with limited powers could also be considered.

As for the numbers, the Greater London Authority would be bigger than Ireland.

Annasopra

joemurt wrote: »

Given all the corruption and financial waste that goes on at county council level, should they be removed and replaced with 4 provincial councils?


Would also address concerns of the unionist community in Ulster that think they would have no say in political matters on the island if there was a vote to re-unite.



County councils are so inefficient, unaccountable, parochial be much better value for money and transparent on matters of planning etc.



Yay or nay? (Grifter CCers please don't have a say, voters only)

No. Nothing would ever get done in towns or cities because of too much centralised power

Harry Palmr

blanch152 wrote: »

I don't think county councils are necessarily corrupt. There was a time in the 1970s and 1980s when the Dublin councils were corrupt with George Redmond featuring in that but it isn't something that is widespread today.

However, they are completely inefficient. I wouldn't replace them with provincial councils though. Linked to the National Development Plan, I would create Metropolitan Areas to focus on cities such as Waterford, Cork, Limerick, Galway and Sligo, with a brief to develop them and their hinterlands/catchment areas. Amalgamations of the remaining rural councils would bring efficiency and could be better.

Rolo2010

I would opposed to provincial councils. It wouldn't make sense for the 3 Ulster counties. District and metropolitan councils could be looked at.

Fuascailteoir

Rolo2010 wrote: »

I would opposed to provincial councils. It wouldn't make sense for the 3 Ulster counties. District and metropolitan councils could be looked at.

I doubt if cavan, monaghan nor donegal residents would be too keen as wouldn't be much funding making its way across from antrim

beerguts

joemurt wrote: »

Given all the corruption and financial waste that goes on at county council level, should they be removed and replaced with 4 provincial councils?


Would also address concerns of the unionist community in Ulster that think they would have no say in political matters on the island if there was a vote to re-unite.



County councils are so inefficient, unaccountable, parochial be much better value for money and transparent on matters of planning etc.



Yay or nay? (Grifter CCers please don't have a say, voters only)

Who cares what the nordies think regards our system. If we did need to reform our council system (Which we don't BTW) it should be done with regard to what our needs in the Irish republic are, not what the British portion of the Island would be comfortable with.

Rolo2010

Fuascailteoir wrote: »

I doubt if cavan, monaghan nor donegal residents would be too keen as wouldn't be much funding making its way across from antrim

Still waiting for a decent road between Strabane and the Tyrone/Monaghan border.

Melanchthon

I think redrawing the borders won't do much to solve the problems, what may work however is the ability of citizens to vote to remove senior beaurocrats and officials within the local authorities, county councilors may be occasionally corrupt and incompetent but it's the managers that seem to hold the power

Smee_Again

Fuascailteoir wrote: »

I doubt if cavan, monaghan nor donegal residents would be too keen as wouldn't be much funding making its way across from antrim

Including those 3 would surely make the Unionists a minority in Ulster so it could work out better for them.

fly_agaric

Deleted User wrote: »

Personally think we need to be planning for an Ireland when the Stormont assembly is part of our government system. I don't think anyone really thinks a United Ireland is going to do away with that talking shop.

Question would be where to locate Connacht, Munster and Leinster's equivalent of Stormont and what powers these regional assemblies will have. Afaik we already have intermittent regional assemblies between the elected councils, not sure on that though, but they have no power and no central building (with attached administrative staff).

That's the way I'd see an imaginary UI being arranged alright.
An (almost?) federal structure with large regional units devolved a lot more powers than a county council. Current NI as one region (not redrawing boundaries so as to ruffle as few feathers as possible) and your 3 regions, with probably all or parts of Dublin county making up another region. Maybe Ireland should think about getting local government set up in this way in the coming years anyway so there is less disruption if UI does happen unexpectly/we get bounced into it in a sense. Have thought there might be benefits to such a structure anyway (over what we have now, centralised with very weak local government) regardless of whether a UI ever happens or not.

L1011

blanch152 wrote: »

As for the numbers, the Greater London Authority would be bigger than Ireland.

And yet still has subsidiary level councils.

Annasopra

Have none of you realised the 6 counties couldnt survive without its civil servants so your idea of a 9 county regional council for NI would be absolutely and utterly rejected by everyone in NI as you would basically be creating mass unemployment in NI doing that

Effectively you are saying Abolish NIs 11 Councils and merge them with Cavan, Monaghan and Donegal Council - Absolutely no way would 14 go into 1

Annasopra

Deleted User wrote: »

Personally think we need to be planning for an Ireland when the Stormont assembly is part of our government system. I don't think anyone really thinks a United Ireland is going to do away with that talking shop.

Question would be where to locate Connacht, Munster and Leinster's equivalent of Stormont and what powers these regional assemblies will have. Afaik we already have intermittent regional assemblies between the elected councils, not sure on that though, but they have no power and no central building (with attached administrative staff).

EMRA has an office in Ballymun with 18 staff
https://emra.ie/

NWRA has an office in Roscommon with 18 staff
https://www.nwra.ie/

Southern Assembly has an office in Waterford with 27 staff
http://www.southernassembly.ie/

They actually do have considerable power in planning - their planning strategy would supercede council and city development plans

Joeytheparrot

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

EMRA has an office in Ballymun with 18 staff
https://emra.ie/

NWRA has an office in Roscommon with 18 staff
https://www.nwra.ie/

Southern Assembly has an office in Waterford with 27 staff
http://www.southernassembly.ie/

They actually do have considerable power in planning - their planning strategy would supercede council and city development plans

Ha, shows what I know about local politics (or national I suppose, truth be told).

My dream of a Munster Dáil sitting in Cashel will have to wait i guess... thanks for the info.

Joeytheparrot

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

Have none of you realised the 6 counties couldnt survive without its civil servants so your idea of a 9 county regional council for NI would be absolutely and utterly rejected by everyone in NI as you would basically be creating mass unemployment in NI doing that

Effectively you are saying Abolish NIs 11 Councils and merge them with Cavan, Monaghan and Donegal Council - Absolutely no way would 14 go into 1

Just to be clear, I don't expect the councils in NI or Stormont to be abolished under a United Ireland. No one on the ground is going to give up power, even small, local power, that those offices bring. I would expect if Stormont is kept, the other provinces should get their own version of it. New anthem, new flag, new government etc.