Change in working hours/days

yoshiktk

Hi,
Question for a friend. He is working in small company which due covid decided to change the hours and days he works. Currently hes on shift from Monday to Friday, from 8 till 16, with total 39 hours. He have full time contract of 39 hours.
Due the rise of orders the company decided to change shifts to three days in, one day off, three days in and week off, which averages to 36 hours per week.
Company will pay still for 39 hours but wants to threat that missing 3hours as extra shift allowance.
In hes contract in states:
"The company reserve the right to change these working hours."
English isnt my forte, the question now can company change the days as well as hours of work, reduce the amount of hours worked based at that paragraph?
Tried to check Working time act but wasnt to helpful.
Thanks

Stheno

yoshiktk wrote: »

Hi,
Question for a friend. He is working in small company which due covid decided to change the hours and days he works. Currently hes on shift from Monday to Friday, from 8 till 16, with total 39 hours. He have full time contract of 39 hours.
Due the rise of orders the company decided to change shifts to three days in, one day off, three days in and week off, which averages to 36 hours per week.
Company will pay still for 39 hours but wants to threat that missing 3hours as extra shift allowance.
In hes contract in states:
"The company reserve the right to change these working hours."
English isnt my forte, the question now can company change the days as well as hours of work, reduce the amount of hours worked based at that paragraph?
Tried to check Working time act but wasnt to helpful.
Thanks

In short, yes they can change

I'm not seeing the issue here, he's working less hours for the same pay and will get more days off

Whats his issue?

yoshiktk

Stheno wrote: »

In short, yes they can change

I'm not seeing the issue here, he's working less hours for the same pay and will get more days off

Whats his issue?

That due new shift now he does need to work that 36hours in 3 days and work on saturdays as well.
He did had a small side job, in which he worked after normal job, now will have to resign from it.
Its a shame that the company can do it, but still thanks for answer.

Just one last thing about the hours.
If contract is for 39, can company reduce the hours to 36, and pay only for that or would they still need to pay for 39?

Mrs OBumble

Stheno wrote: »

In short, yes they can change

I'm not seeing the issue here, he's working less hours for the same pay and will get more days off

Whats his issue?

Where did you get the same pay from? Less hours = less pay, unless salaried. And if salaried, hours of work are unlikely to be prescribed. Extra shift allowance may be paid for now, but is unlikely to last as future changes are made.

Also, the new shift pattern makes childcare / elder-care a lot harder to arrange. As well as secondary employment and participation in lots of outside activities (study, voluntary work, sport etc) due to not having the same days off each week. It's a big difference for a current Mon-Fri worker.



OP, I reckon no, they cannot change it without his agreement. He could most likely get a lawyer, and likely insist on being made redundant. BUT in the current economic climate, how hard will it be to get a new job?

yoshiktk

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Where did you get the same pay from? Less hours = less pay, unless salaried. And if salaried, hours of work are unlikely to be prescribed. Extra shift allowance may be paid for now, but is unlikely to last as future changes are made.

Also, the new shift pattern makes childcare / elder-care a lot harder to arrange. As well as secondary employment and participation in lots of outside activities (study, voluntary work, sport etc) due to not having the same days off each week. It's a big difference for a current Mon-Fri worker.



OP, I reckon no, they cannot change it without his agreement. He could most likely get a lawyer, and likely insist on being made redundant. BUT in the current economic climate, how hard will it be to get a new job?

The company at the meeting about new shift system anounced that the awerage weekly hours will be 36, but they will still pay for 39, 60 in one week and 12 in second.
The extra shift allowance gonna be paid, but in reality its just a s*it in sugar coating. The company wants to use the new system for at least 10 weeks, so under normal conditions he would do 390 hours. On the new shifts its gonna be doing only 346, but get paid for 390. The difference of 44hr company calls shift allowance.
Thats why I asked can a company reduce the amount of hr under the contract, without writing agreement?
Thanks

listermint

Sounds like change in pattern to facilitate Christmas. Then back to normal. Did he ask this ?

yoshiktk

listermint wrote: »

Sounds like change in pattern to facilitate Christmas. Then back to normal. Did he ask this ?

Its due increase in orders, covid related. They make stuff for pharma. There meant to be changes done to increase the output but its 1 year late.
The company said that its this new shift or old one with saturdays, plus they were already doing overtime in last 6 months. But as they dont want to put people under to much stress, they decided on first one.

Dav010

yoshiktk wrote: »

Its due increase in orders, covid related. They make stuff for pharma. There meant to be changes done to increase the output but its 1 year late.
The company said that its this new shift or old one with saturdays, plus they were already doing overtime in last 6 months. But as they dont want to put people under to much stress, they decided on first one.

So this has been planned for over a year?

Like other posters, I’m struggling to see what your friends issue is, he is working reduced hours for the same pay. What exactly does he want?

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

OP, I reckon no, they cannot change it without his agreement. He could most likely get a lawyer, and likely insist on being made redundant. BUT in the current economic climate, how hard will it be to get a new job?

Op quoted a term in the employment contract which would appear to allow them to do just that. Of course the op’s friend could discuss with his Union if he has one, but in the pharma industry, changes to business needs is not hard to imagine at the current time.

yoshiktk

Dav010 wrote: »

So this has been planned for over a year?

Like other posters, I’m struggling to see what your friends issue is, he is working reduced hours for the same pay. What exactly does he want?



Op quoted a term in the employment contract which would appear to allow them to do just that. Of course the op’s friend could discuss with his Union if he has one, but in the pharma industry, changes to business needs is not hard to imagine at the current time.

Planned was increase in production output with the same working week, as its late due some certain reasons, the company can do it only with the change of hours.
Like someone else mentioned, its changes the patern of work as well days off. 36 hours sounds nice until You think that You have to do them in 3 days.

Dav010

yoshiktk wrote: »

Planned was increase in production output with the same working week, as its late due some certain reasons, the company can do it only with the change of hours.
Like someone else mentioned, its changes the patern of work as well days off. 36 hours sounds nice until You think that You have to do them in 3 days.

Nice to have a full week off every second week though.

amadangomor

Dav010 wrote: »

Nice to have a full week off every second week though.

Less days also so can save money on commuting, lunches etc. I'd be jumping at this way of working.

listermint

amadangomor wrote: »

Less days also so can save money on commuting, lunches etc. I'd be jumping at this way of working.

More days to do the other seperate job they wanted to do

_Brian

Sounds like they are working within the specifics mentioned in the contract.

The fact that he is working less house for the same pay shows they did bend and give as well as take.

Mrs OBumble

Dav010 wrote: »

Nice to have a full week off every second week though.

Provided you don't have to organise childcare, or want to do anything except work in the long-hours week.

Less days in work, more days at home.

Less actual hours worked but still paid the same

Less money spent on commute, etc.

I'm taking to see the financial issue here unless the 'shift allowance' isn't pensionable compared to pay. That's The only only I can see being a problem.

The hours would seem far better as well. Think of the opportunities for travel if your annual leave / holidays stays at 20 days and to get a week off anyway.

When I started we worked an 8 hour day that worked out at 5 on and 2 off overall. Then we went to ten hours and 6/4 system.

For covid we went to 12 hours and 4 on / 4 off. Obviously each personal situation is different but I think the majority having tried the 12 hours would stick to it

yoshiktk

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

Less days in work, more days at home.

Less actual hours worked but still paid the same

Less money spent on commute, etc.

I'm taking to see the financial issue here unless the 'shift allowance' isn't pensionable compared to pay. That's The only only I can see being a problem.

The hours would seem far better as well. Think of the opportunities for travel if your annual leave / holidays stays at 20 days and to get a week off anyway.

When I started we worked an 8 hour day that worked out at 5 on and 2 off overall. Then we went to ten hours and 6/4 system.

For covid we went to 12 hours and 4 on / 4 off. Obviously each personal situation is different but I think the majority having tried the 12 hours would stick to it

Its sounds nice having the week off, but when You count all the factors in, at least for him, its a total life changer.
Add the lockdown to that, so You cant really go anywhere.
He already got information from his second job that the wont be able to keep him with the changes, the week off isnt always monday to friday, so they cant offer him a job with so flexible hours.
Thanks for all the input, in the end the company even with the crew not being to happy about it, decided to go with it.
As for my friend goes, gonna look for another job in the meantime.

Stateofyou

The changes from the employer do need to be put in writing.

yoshiktk

yoshiktk wrote: »

Its sounds nice having the week off, but when You count all the factors in, at least for him, its a total life changer.
Add the lockdown to that, so You cant really go anywhere.
He already got information from his second job that the wont be able to keep him with the changes, the week off isnt always monday to friday, so they cant offer him a job with so flexible hours.
Thanks for all the input, in the end the company even with the crew not being to happy about it, decided to go with it.
As for my friend goes, gonna look for another job in the meantime.

Of course, everyone has their own set of circumstances.

I'm unsure how the week off won't always be the same, a week is 7 days. He will be getting the entire thing

GerardKeating

yoshiktk wrote: »

There meant to be changes done to increase the output but its 1 year late.

They are increasing output and reducing hours at the same time ?

Dav010

GerardKeating wrote: »

They are increasing output and reducing hours at the same time ?

Possibly increasing hours the factory is open and hiring more staff to work the extra shifts? At least they were considerate by reducing hours for same pay.

yoshiktk

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

Of course, everyone has their own set of circumstances.

I'm unsure how the week off won't always be the same, a week is 7 days. He will be getting the entire thing

There was a mistake in first roster, there days off were floating.
Now he gets Thursday to Wednesday off.

GerardKeating wrote: »

They are increasing output and reducing hours at the same time ?

Dav010 wrote: »

Possibly increasing hours the factory is open and hiring more staff to work the extra shifts? At least they were considerate by reducing hours for same pay.

Yes. They decided to add more stuff.

Strumms

For the idea of having more block time off as in that week, it sounds deadly.. but I guarantee you for the first three or four days or so of that week, you’ll be fit for nothing. It will be your body and brain just resting and recovering.

I was doing four split shifts, with Friday, Saturday and Sunday off.... sounded great at first, every weekend a long weekend. The only bonus was saving a shît load of holidays and a bit of split shift pay but for about two days out of the three off I was completely wiped... the shift was 1pm - 1am... you’ve zero social outlet during the week, in your case because you’ll be mega tired and weekend the same.

It looks decent on paper but the actual living with it is different.

yoshiktk

yoshiktk wrote: »

In hes contract in states:
"The company reserve the right to change these working hours."

I think the company have covered themselves with this clause in the employment contract.