derogatory coworkers

chris525

If you read my previous thread I'm looking for a new job.

There's one common situation in almost every job that I've had and that's coworkers saying derogatory comments.

For example, in my last a job a Jewish man and an atheist would sit there having extremely disparaging and prejudiced comments about Catholics. He would say that Catholics 'all drink out of the same cup' during mass and that was gross. If you're going to insult people, at least get your facts right.

In my current role, a French man sat down beside me and started saying how crazy Christians are because they pray. He said that he thought that people who pray to a higher power were possibly mentally ill. Funny, he didn't mention Islam at all or Judaism.

Also, my coworkers talk about politics in the office. I find myself to be orange in a field of purple and it's uncomfortable.

While the comments are not directed at me, I find this horrifying. How do they know that I'm not part of XYZ group that they hate? If you don't know someone well enough to know what religion or lack-of they are, then you should not just bring it up in such a nasty way.

I guess it's kind of nasty to go around insulting people unprovoked and it changes your opinion of the coworker knowing that they are prejudiced against XYZ group. They lose a lot of credibility in my eyes as a professional.

This has been an issue in all 3 if the jobs that I've worked in. As I am looking for a new job, how can I avoid this in the future? I work in IT.

Look, everyone is entitled to their opinions but work isn't the place to air them. I have some unpalatable opinions myself. Coworkers are not friends.

PS: I think that a lot of people assume that I'm not a religious person because I have a degree in science. As a scientist, I have no idea why someone would think that way. It's highly presuming and presumptuous and, ironically, 'unscientific'. I know a good number of scientists that believe in a higher power. (But we won't derail this thread.)

Jequ0n

Most people don’t think before they open their mouths, so unless you just accept this you will always face this problem.

You can’t control what others say/do, unless you tell them that the topic of conversation bothers you. Overall you might want to work on detaching yourself because you seem to be taking things way too personally. Why do you care so much what they think?

I agree that it’s a dangerous and incredibly stupid thing to behave like that in work, but it’s not your problem. In a way it enables you to learn a lot about your co-workers because they are careless. Possible ammunition to blackmail them, too.

Tork

Chris. You have posted at length here about problems you're having with your mother, your father's family, your marriage (which seems to have gone from being on the rocks to planning another kid). Now you're wound up about your co-workers. I don't want to go down the road of victim blaming here because you may have been let down by people in your life. But I'm starting to wonder how much of this is to do with you. Did you ever take the advice regularly given to change your therapist and go to somebody new. You are a troubled person and I don't think boards can help you in the ways you need.

cannotlogin

I think you are looking at it from the wrong angle.

The more comfortable you get with yourself, the less other people matter. You can't change others only yourself.

You need to work on your reactions because you can't eliminate everything that makes you awkard or feel bad. Look at coping mechanisms, conflict resolution, letting the irrelevant and minor details etc.

If the same problems keep reoccurring everywhere you go, then you are person will the real problem and that needs to change most.

blue note

I don't think you're going to find the office environment that you're looking for Chris, I think the change has to be in how you deal with it. As a suggestion, maybe let them know that you're religious? I'm not myself, but my mother is. And as a result I'd be careful not to offend or upset her by saying something disparaging about the church. You're probably a similar age to me so it's quite unusual for someone our age to be religious. You're coworkers are probably assuming you're not religious, but if they knew might be more sensitive to you. The vast majority of people don't want to upset others.

But even if you let them know, there will always be people in the office and in life in general who'll want to have a laugh, or get a rise out of people. They won't mean to upset you and it's all well and good saying they shouldn't do this but it won't change the fact that they will. You're going to be permanently miserable if you get upset all the time by it. And you're going to be holding a lot of anger towards people who mean you no harm. Moving office isn't the answer. I think talking to a psychologist could be help.

chris525

blue note wrote: »

You're probably a similar age to me so it's quite unusual for someone our age to be religious.

Ah ha, I'm not Irish so where I'm from there's still quite a few young people of faith.

I don't want to derail this thread but I think that the lack of religion is a really bad thing as it starts to degrade morals, breaks families apart... rampant divorce, STDs, children from broken homes etc. especially where I am from. I view this all as a very bad thing for society. I can see that in the young people in Dublin especially. Why not *gasp* get married and have a family? But we won't get into that.

I don't want to tell my coworkers that I'm religious because I don't want to deal with the backlash in a place of employment. I'm not interested in befriending coworkers because coworkers are not friends. Coworkers will throw you under a bus for promotions and share any secrets to your boss. I know I would. It's a place of work and competition even.

I usually think before I speak so I can't image being so 'loose' and 'liberal' in a place of employment.

I have told my coworkers that I don't like them talking politics at work and they got offended. They couldn't figure out why I wouldn’t want to listen to their blather. It's because I'm on the opposite end of the political spectrum and don't want to reveal that at work.

Maybe I'm not comfortable because my views are not popular?

chris525

cannotlogin wrote: »

I think you are looking at it from the wrong angle.

The more comfortable you get with yourself, the less other people matter. You can't change others only yourself.

You need to work on your reactions because you can't eliminate everything that makes you awkard or feel bad. Look at coping mechanisms, conflict resolution, letting the irrelevant and minor details etc.

If the same problems keep reoccurring everywhere you go, then you are person will the real problem and that needs to change most.

I guess at the heart of it, I'm really not comfortable with backlash.

For example, if I said to my coworker "oh my god, this boss is such a cheap stingy fecker; he would not buy me a new desk" the person could retaliate against me and that's what I'm afraid of.

Jequ0n

You do realise that you get offended by literally everything but deny others the right to be offended by you?

chris525

Jequ0n wrote: »

You do realise that you get offended by literally everything but deny others the right to be offended by you?

How is asking someone to not discuss a sensitive topic at work offensive?

PHG

Cannotlogin hit the nail on the head.

Does it really matter what other people say, why would you care? Have you not more pressing things to worry about than listening in to some random conversation within earshot.

Your co-workers will unlikely care if you are religious or not and this is a mountain out of a molehill. Work on yourself and the rest does not matter. I have co-workers of different religions symbolised via their clothing. Does anyone in the office care, no! They only care if they don't do their work.

Now, as for your religious point. I live in Sweden, there is barely any religion here and everyone is fine and there is a high quality of life on average. Wherever you are getting the rampant divorce and STD's is beyond comprehension and makes no sense. Plenty of people have been murdered, chastised and worse because of religion. Believing that one god is the true god vs another is pure fantasy land and has been the start of many wars and millions of deaths. Lack of religion does not degrade morals either and whoever preaches that nonsense you have mentioned is nothing but a scaremongering lunatic.

You asked them to not talk about politics because you don't want to listen to it. What is to stop you putting in headphones or ignoring them? They have the right to talk about it, you are no better or worse then they are. I struggle to believe they were that offended but more along the lines of "what are you on about" as you do not have to listen to it. Everyone is entitled to an opinion.

Your posts come across as the victim all the time. Start looking in the mirror as the only person who can fix your life is you because I guarantee most people don't really care about anyone else's opinion. You are putting yourself on a pedestal judgiing them... that is not very, love thy neighbour!!

What have you done to move forward progressively.

blue note

chris525 wrote: »

Ah ha, I'm not Irish so where I'm from there's still quite a few young people of faith.

I don't want to derail this thread but I think that the lack of religion is a really bad thing as it starts to degrade morals, breaks families apart... rampant divorce, STDs, children from broken homes etc. especially where I am from. I view this all as a very bad thing for society. I can see that in the young people in Dublin especially. Why not *gasp* get married and have a family? But we won't get into that.

I don't want to tell my coworkers that I'm religious because I don't want to deal with the backlash in a place of employment. I'm not interested in befriending coworkers because coworkers are not friends. Coworkers will throw you under a bus for promotions and share any secrets to your boss. I know I would. It's a place of work and competition even.

I usually think before I speak so I can't image being so 'loose' and 'liberal' in a place of employment.

I have told my coworkers that I don't like them talking politics at work and they got offended. They couldn't figure out why I wouldn’t want to listen to their blather. It's because I'm on the opposite end of the political spectrum and don't want to reveal that at work.

Maybe I'm not comfortable because my views are not popular?

I didn't realise you weren't irish. I'm going to guess there's an element of a cultural clash then as well. I've worked with a fair few foreigners in my time, and for example I found the polish can be very direct in communication. This is neither a positive nor negative, just a difference in the norm in Ireland and Poland. The result though, was that at times they'd get frustrated with irish people talking around a topic, and occasionally an Irish person would be a little shocked or offended when the pole says something to them in a way they're not used to hearing it said. What might be the case here is that there's an element of irish humour at play that you don't find funny. And if that's the case you should see it as what it is. I'm not saying you have to like it, but I reckon it would be easier to cope with people making jokes you don't find funny as opposed to being mean or nasty.

I'd be very careful about the attitude that you'd be willing to throw someone under a bus for a promotion. If people know that if you they could easily hold it against you. And as a result would perhaps be happy enough to rile you. And even from managements point of view, they might not regard you as a team player if they think you think like that. In my experience that attitude is the exception, not normal. Being competitive is fine, even a good thing. But having to watch everything you do in case someone throws you under a bus does not sound remotely enjoyable.

And it's a little off topic, but the coworkers are not friends comment I think is an unfortunate attitude too. Generally speaking, I am not friends with my coworkers outside of my office, but in it I would like to think I am. When I spend 40 hours a week with people, more than anyone except my wife, I'd be sad to not think of them as friendships as well as work relationships. They're different to other friendships and there are lines I wouldn't cross with them, but I'd say the same of friendships in other aspects of my life too, like sportsclubs for example.

chris525

PHG wrote: »

Cannotlogin hit the nail on the head.

Does it really matter what other people say, why would you care? Have you not more pressing things to worry about than listening in to some random conversation within earshot.

Your co-workers will unlikely care if you are religious or not and this is a mountain out of a molehill. Work on yourself and the rest does not matter. I have co-workers of different religions symbolised via their clothing. Does anyone in the office care, no! They only care if they don't do their work.

You asked them to not talk about politics because you don't want to listen to it. What is to stop you putting in headphones or ignoring them? They have the right to talk about it, you are no better or worse then they are. I struggle to believe they were that offended but more along the lines of "what are you on about" as you do not have to listen to it. Everyone is entitled to an opinion.

Your posts come across as the victim all the time. Start looking in the mirror as the only person who can fix your life is you because I guarantee most people don't really care about anyone else's opinion. You are putting yourself on a pedestal judgiing them... that is not very, love thy neighbour!!

What have you done to move forward progressively.

I guess I honestly don't have much respect for my boss or my coworkers in reality and they are not people I would chose to associate with outside of work. It's bad enough that I was stuck in a room with them all the time.

My coworkers have not always been welcoming towards me when I moved to Ireland and have not extended friendship towards me so why do I need to listen to them?

In the case of the French man sitting beside me and starting to degrade Christians out of nowhere, I did not have the option of putting on headphones because I didn't know he was going to do that.

The other times, I feel like I should have a right to a quiet working environment. I dislike wearing headphones and it distracts me. My work requires heavy concentration and people talking about sensitive topics is a distraction.

I partially blame the concept of the open office on this. It's not good for people working on software.

Yes, I have a lot of opinions that will offend people. I chose not to share it at work.

chris525

blue note wrote: »

I didn't realise you weren't irish. I'm going to guess there's an element of a cultural clash then as well. I've worked with a fair few foreigners in my time, and for example I found the polish can be very direct in communication. This is neither a positive nor negative, just a difference in the norm in Ireland and Poland. The result though, was that at times they'd get frustrated with irish people talking around a topic, and occasionally an Irish person would be a little shocked or offended when the pole says something to them in a way they're not used to hearing it said. What might be the case here is that there's an element of irish humour at play that you don't find funny. And if that's the case you should see it as what it is. I'm not saying you have to like it, but I reckon it would be easier to cope with people making jokes you don't find funny as opposed to being mean or nasty.

I'd be very careful about the attitude that you'd be willing to throw someone under a bus for a promotion. If people know that if you they could easily hold it against you. And as a result would perhaps be happy enough to rile you. And even from managements point of view, they might not regard you as a team player if they think you think like that. In my experience that attitude is the exception, not normal. Being competitive is fine, even a good thing. But having to watch everything you do in case someone throws you under a bus does not sound remotely enjoyable.

And it's a little off topic, but the coworkers are not friends comment I think is an unfortunate attitude too. Generally speaking, I am not friends with my coworkers outside of my office, but in it I would like to think I am. When I spend 40 hours a week with people, more than anyone except my wife, I'd be sad to not think of them as friendships as well as work relationships. They're different to other friendships and there are lines I wouldn't cross with them, but I'd say the same of friendships in other aspects of my life too, like sportsclubs for example.

I guess I work in a male-dominated environment and being the only female is a little isolating. In my personal experience men and women cannot be fully platonic friends to the extent that the friendship would be intimate and fulfilling. Someone always ends up liking someone and having a crush. E.g. one of my drunk coworkers flirted with me and I'm married; it can cause issues for me.

Irish people do not like criticism. Where I'm from people are more calculating and analytical. E.g. I want to leave my job because my pay is less than I would get elsewhere. There's no friendship there; it's a business transaction. Or if I said someone's work was sloppy it could cause issues for me but where I'm from it's normal.

No, I do not like the Irish humour. Especially if we are not even friends. The person does not invite me for lunch or phone me or even try to get to know me but wants to 'rile' me up? You lost me at 'hello' if you even said it.

Jequ0n

Why should they be welcoming towards you? It’s just a job, not a social event.

You cannot make the world around you fit your expectations even if that’s what you want. Either suck it up and accept that this is what things are like or sit in the corner sulking, your choice.

You might want to work on your acting skills though, because willingness is to stab someone in the back does not get you to places you might want to get to. You need to act the part too, and you seem to be incredibly inflexible.

Tork

I would love to hear your co-workers' thoughts on you. You sound like a difficult person to work with and you're bringing an awful lot of this woe onto your own head.

SuperRabbit

Chris: People shouldn't judge me or others based on our beliefs
Also Chris: I think that the lack of religion is a really bad thing as it starts to degrade morals, breaks families apart...

chris525

Jequ0n wrote: »

Why should they be welcoming towards you? It’s just a job, not a social event.

OK but they were openly unwelcoming towards me due to my nationality and won't leave me alone about it.

And exactly, if it's not a social event then keep your opinions out.

chris525

SuperRabbit wrote: »

Chris: People shouldn't judge me or others based on our beliefs
Also Chris: I think that the lack of religion is a really bad thing as it starts to degrade morals, breaks families apart...

Oh, there's no doubt about it. I have offensive views. I just would never sit down beside someone at work and just start talking like that.

Hannibal_Smith

OP, you've asked for help on how to avoid this in the future and you can't. People talk in work. You've said none of it is directed at you so why would you chose to be insulted by something that's not meant for you and was said by someone you don't care about?

How have you tried to resolve the issue up to now?

chris525

Hannibal_Smith wrote: »

OP, you've asked for help on how to avoid this in the future and you can't. People talk in work. You've said none of it is directed at you so why would you chose to be insulted by something that's not meant for you and was said by someone you don't care about?

How have you tried to resolve the issue up to now?

I told them that I am not interested in knowing the political leanings of my coworkers. They didn't understand why. It's because when I joined the business meeting I did not sign up for hearing about their views.

Where I am from, people do not discuss politics at work. It's faux pas.

Jequ0n

chris525 wrote: »

OK but they were openly unwelcoming towards me due to my nationality and won't leave me alone about it.

And exactly, if it's not a social event then keep your opinions out.

Of course they won’t, you have no idea how much fun it is to rile someone up who has a hissy fit about everything?

You are the problem, they are not.

You’re not in Kansas any more so adapt or be miserable

chris525

Jequ0n wrote: »

Of course they won’t, you have no idea how much fun it is to rile someone up who has a hissy fit about everything?

You are the problem, not them.

Why would that be fun?

Hannibal_Smith

chris525 wrote: »

I told them that I am not interested in knowing the political leanings of my coworkers. They didn't understand why. It's because when I joined the business meeting I did not sign up for hearing about their views.

Where I am from, people do not discuss politics at work. It's faux pas.

And what was the result of that? Did they stop talking politics around you?

chris525

Jequ0n wrote: »

Of course they won’t, you have no idea how much fun it is to rile someone up who has a hissy fit about everything?

You are the problem, they are not.

You’re not in Kansas any more so adapt or be miserable

I don't want to live in Ireland. I don't like it here. It's just that I would have to divorce my husband and win an international custody battle to move.

I have huge, bigger issues in my life.

Maybe if you racist people would leave people alone about their nationality and welcome them then it would be easier to adapt?

blue note

You're coming across as resistant to changing anything about yourself. I think it's safe to say that you're office isn't going to change significantly and if you've had this experience in your previous two offices as well then you can reasonably expect it to be the case wherever you go next as well.

If you're here to unload your frustrations that's fair enough and I hope this helps. But if you're wondering how to improve the situation for yourself, you simply need to look at what can you change, because you're not going to change your coworkers. It will come back to changing how you deal with people saying things you don't like or agree with, accepting other people for who they are including what you perceive as their shortcomings, trying to see what they're saying from their point of view. That doesn't mean you have to agree with them, but people are far easier to not dislike if you think they're just not funny as opposed to racist or sexist or bigoted or immoral or whatever.

Good luck OP. You sound like you're having a tough time coping and I hope you can figure it out.

chris525

Hannibal_Smith wrote: »

And what was the result of that? Did they stop talking politics around you?

For a while, until there was another major newspaper article about it or another big political blow up.

Tork

Good luck finding a workplace where politics aren't discussed.

Jequ0n

chris525 wrote: »

I don't want to live in Ireland. I don't like it here. It's just that I would have to divorce my husband and win an international custody battle to move.

I have huge, bigger issues in my life.

Maybe if you racist people would leave people alone about their nationality and welcome them then it would be easier to adapt?

That’s your problem and has nothing to do with your job.
You also have issues with non Irish people (French colleague you mentioned) who seem to fit in so the racism card doesn’t work.
Enjoy playing the victim card even if it makes no sense.

chris525

Jequ0n wrote: »

That’s your problem and has nothing to do with your job.
You also have issues with non Irish people (French colleague you mentioned) who seem to fit in so the racism card doesn’t work.
Enjoy playing the victim card even if it makes no sense.

But I'm not an EU-national so I obviously don't fit in.

chris525

Tork wrote: »

Good luck finding a workplace where politics aren't discussed.

Why are Irish people obsessed with it? Why not be a little more interesting?

Tork

Irish people find politics interesting.