Emerald Airlines.... new kid in town!

kona

kona wrote: »

It has a awful lot to do with it. What do you need to set up a airline?

Two completely different business models / customer bases which will likely be run independently of each other.

They are dead right to be protecting the cost base of the maintenance one if it’s customer base and it’s income / debt collection are under threat.

1123heavy

HTCOne wrote: »

Wasn't there a desire for EI to put the A320 back on 1 or 2 rotations for EDI in particular due demand but the EIR contract prevented them from doing so? Hope they've had a look at that for the new contract.....

EI always had the right to operate any EIR route on any day if they wanted to, they'd just ask stobart to stand aside

Stovepipe

Mayo_fan wrote: »

Two completely different business models / customer bases which will likely be run independently of each other.

They are dead right to be protecting the cost base of the maintenance one if it’s customer base and it’s income / debt collection are under threat.

A friend of mine who used to work for DA found his wages would fluctuate constantly, despite putting in some 60 hr weeks, so that in the real world of trying to buy a house and get a mortgage, this caused a lot of unnecessary grief. No sense of security and constant rumours/disinformation/truths and untruths from management about who was buying what, who was selling what, what aircraft were due in,etc,etc. Being told that your 2% wasn't coming because of Covid's effect on the industry and then hearing within days that the boss has found a few bob down the back of the sofa to buy new hangars and set up an airline. The airline industry constantly demands integrity and honesty from it's staff, especially the engineers, so it would be nice if that was a two-way street.

Stovepipe

Stovepipe wrote: »

A friend of mine who used to work for DA found his wages would fluctuate constantly, despite putting in some 60 hr weeks, so that in the real world of trying to buy a house and get a mortgage.

This sounds like the most standard contract of the modern world(not just aero) where someone has a 40hr contract and then works overtime. Banks don’t typically count overtime as it’s not guaranteed. What would you propose the company do?

Stovepipe wrote: »

Being told that your 2% wasn't coming because of Covid's effect on the industry and then hearing within days that the boss has found a few bob down the back of the sofa to buy new hangars and set up an airline.

My point is
-company A relies on 3rd party airlines. These airlines are in major trouble, why would you increase your cost base if your pipeline of business is under threat / you feel that cash owed by customers won’t be paid.

-shareholder sees a gap in the market for a new venture and sets up an independent company B. It’s unlikely they spotted this opportunity in between offering a 2% pay raise to company A, I can only guess it’s been in the pipeline for a very long time, otherwise a company as big as IAG wouldn’t entertain them.

It has nothing to do with stupid phrases such as found money behind the couch. DAs customer base are on lifeline support, surely you understand that this is related to reviewing costs.

It just sounds like bitter ex SRT talk because your friend is no longer on a €100k unsackacle contract. The world has moved on dude, might not be for the better but look forward as no choice

Rgds

kona

Mayo_fan wrote: »

Two completely different business models / customer bases which will likely be run independently of each other.

They are dead right to be protecting the cost base of the maintenance one if it’s customer base and it’s income / debt collection are under threat.

Well considering its called emerald airlines and not dublin aerospace airlines its safe to assume they will be run seperatley.
I dont think any costbase is under threat, hangar 4 and 5 are hardly barren now are they. The success of DAL is down as much to the hard work of their long suffering staff as it is to conor mc carthys impressive business skills. His employees certainly earn their increments. Lets not forget whats required to set up a airline, he will need part M and 145 in which case he will require some of these employees.

kona

Mayo_fan wrote: »

It just sounds like bitter ex SRT talk because your friend is no longer on a €100k unsackacle contract. The world has moved on dude, might not be for the better but look forward as no choice

Rgds

Unsackable? They laid off 1500 workers from a profitable business and stole the contracts to move the work abroad.

Eleven Benevolent Elephants

This might belong in the unpopular opinion thread but Avro RJ all the way.

Very easy on fuel, take off and land on a six pence, reliable as old boots.

L1011

And all over 20 years old by 2023. Not going to happen.

I'm surprised they were even OK with the Cityjet setup branding them.

1123heavy

Eleven Benevolent Elephants wrote: »

This might belong in the unpopular opinion thread but Avro RJ all the way.

Very easy on fuel, take off and land on a six pence, reliable as old boots.

:pac::pac::pac::D

Locker10a

1123heavy wrote: »

:pac::pac::pac::D

I also wasn’t sure was this sarcasm or not

Stovepipe

My point about fluctuating wages was that he found himself having a decent wage one week then a thin one the next week all because the company would dick people around by having 20 hrs one week, forty the next, 20 the next and so on yet other people had regular hours. The hangar is full of work yet they seemed to be ritually unable to roster people in a stable fashion. Dicking people around like this pisses people off. My friend started in DA and never served in SRT but got fed up with all the instability. As for the new airline and hangarage in Exeter, they are inextricably linked to DA as their aircraft will,no doubt,end up there when Exeter is full and gaps appear in DA's work schedule. ATRs for overhaul will go where it suits McCarthy. He's not going to fly them too far away for overhaul when he has a captive workforce in Dublin and Exeter. His new landing gear shop will deal with ATR landing gear just as well as A320s.

Growler!!!

Eleven Benevolent Elephants wrote: »

Very easy on fuel, take off and land on a six pence, reliable as old boots.

Sounds like the first line in the sales brochure from the early 90's:D

Reliable between breakdowns:)

California Dreamer

So this change will happen in 2 years. Will morale drop like a stone now or is it a case of we've got a job to do lets get on with it?

Noxegon

Eleven Benevolent Elephants wrote: »

This might belong in the unpopular opinion thread but Avro RJ all the way.

I guess you're not that tall!

My flights on the Cityjet RJs were probably most cramped and uncomfortable I've taken over the years. Definitely won't miss them.

Growler!!!

California Dreamer wrote: »

So this change will happen in 2 years. Will morale drop like a stone now or is it a case of we've got a job to do lets get on with it?

Morale is low as it is with very few flights. Question will probably be will STK be bought out as a going concern by Emerald and the crew/engineers/aircraft etc be utilised again or will it be a case of Emerald sourcing crew and aircraft from elsewhere.

There is a lot of knowledge in RE/STK operating the ATR type into every conceivable type of airport in Northwestern Europe. Wouldn't surprise me to find many of the old RE/STK heads pop up in the new outfit.

I wish them all luck

California Dreamer

Growler!!! wrote: »

Morale is low as it is with very few flights. Question will probably be will STK be bought out as a going concern by Emerald and the crew/engineers/aircraft etc be utilised again or will it be a case of Emerald sourcing crew and aircraft from elsewhere.

There is a lot of knowledge in RE/STK operating the ATR type into every conceivable type of airport in Northwestern Europe. Wouldn't surprise me to find many of the old RE/STK heads pop up in the new outfit.

I wish them all luck

And a lot of very good people have already departed!

mr.anonymous

https://www.flightglobal.com/airlines/stobart-group-still-plans-airline-exit-despite-aer-lingus-franchise-setback/141139.article

Stobart group open to discussions with Emerald due to expected interest in ATR fleet.

Although anyone rated to fly an ATR or a Q400(if that is the airframe they choose) should be able to serve as a pilot for this airline wouldn't the operators prefer to have pilots who have been flying in and out of difficult blustery airports on the west coast of Europe for years rather than pilots who clocked up their hours in mainland Europe?
for example, I didn't think much of FlyBE as an operation but would have expected that their pilots earned their wings(sic) the hard way during the worst winter gales in the British Isles

Jamie2k9

1123heavy wrote: »

EI always had the right to operate any EIR route on any day if they wanted to, they'd just ask stobart to stand aside

Is tthat based on knowledge of the deal? Outside Scotland that was fine but not sure it applied to DUB-EDI/GLA. These were STs main routes.

goingnowhere

It wasn't uncommon to see a A320 fly under a regional flight number

Locker10a

[PHP][/PHP]

goingnowhere wrote: »

It wasn't uncommon to see a A320 fly under a regional flight number

Indeed, a320s were sometimes subbed in due to the ATRs not being able to take all the bags

faoiarvok

Wonder what callsign they’ll use?

Westair already have Emerald as theirs.

Stovepipe

Locker10a wrote: »

[PHP][/PHP]

Indeed, a320s were sometimes subbed in due to the ATRs not being able to take all the bags

Sometimes, that was done because of demand, ie, they had sold enough seats to justify a 320, and the bag load and a bit of cargo. ATRs were/are more important to the EI operation as a feeder bringing in pax, to contribute to the A330 loads.

goingnowhere

6 nations weekends EDI was mainline operated

L1011

goingnowhere wrote: »

6 nations weekends EDI was mainline operated

Also happened to CWL when that was still Regional (rather than dumped) - and it continued to happen even after it was dumped!

Jamie2k9

Put it this way, would ST give up the most profitable flight the early DUB-EDI service to EI mainline. Worth remembering mainline were down to run that before they ST added the second morning service and in turn axed another route to make way.

Outside Scotland there is no issues, why because EI mainline didn't operate BRS, LBA, CWF before EIR started. You will notice EIR joined in on MAN/BHX and while both work together EI for example haven't exactly given up the most profitable flights.

The 6 Nations isn't really relevant as it happened long before EIR came about though in recent years EI mainline have cut back but that's probably because its not as lucrative as before.

1123heavy

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Put it this way, would ST give up the most profitable flight the early DUB-EDI service to EI mainline. Worth remembering mainline were down to run that before they ST added the second morning service and in turn axed another route to make way.

Outside Scotland there is no issues, why because EI mainline didn't operate BRS, LBA, CWF before EIR started. You will notice EIR joined in on MAN/BHX and while both work together EI for example haven't exactly given up the most profitable flights.

The 6 Nations isn't really relevant as it happened long before EIR came about though in recent years EI mainline have cut back but that's probably because its not as lucrative as before.

Where are you getting this information from exactly? Aer Lingus Regional has existed since 2010, EI most certainly have sent A320s to EDI in that time.

Jamie2k9

1123heavy wrote: »

Where are you getting this information from exactly? Aer Lingus Regional has existed since 2010, EI most certainly have sent A320s to EDI in that time.

Apologies if I wasn't clear. They have but 6 Nations traffic from EI/EIR has reduced in recent years so the big mainline weekend schedule is a lot smaller now but thats not related to EIR.

They have even sent the A330s to EDI and BRS before.

1123heavy

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Apologies if I wasn't clear. They have but 6 Nations traffic from EI/EIR has reduced in recent years so the big mainline weekend schedule is a lot smaller now.

They have even sent the A330s to EDI and BRS before.

That may be true, but the fact does remain that EI have always had the right to do any EIR route they so wished to do at any point in time. They simply told Stobart they would be taking care of whatever flight on whatever day and that was it. This wasn't done so much because there wasn't much of a need to do it and economically it only made sense on the odd MAN/BHX route where it happened more than EDI

https://m.independent.ie/business/irish/stobart-air-sale-talks-at-advanced-stage-with-suitor-39846563.html

Stobart likely to be sold soon(not to emerald) releasing its parent company from €90m of guarantees (obviously not walking away from these scot free).

Also in the article

“Mr McCarthy said Emerald Airlines is now in “advanced discussions” with five leasing companies to secure initial aircraft to operate the Aer Lingus Regional service when Stobart Air’s contract ends. Emerald previously said that it would eventually have a fleet of 15 ATR-72 aircraft.

Emerald is negotiating the lease of the ATR-72 turboprop aircraft on a so-called “power-by-the-hour” basis, before eventually moving to a full lease.“