Wales v Republic of Ireland - UEFA Nations League - Match Thread - 5pm 15/11/20 - Sky

Witcher

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

A bit of aimless possession around the back and to and from the midfield is hardly “playing better”, is it?

Great possession based play

showpony1

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

A bit of aimless possession around the back and to and from the midfield is hardly “playing better”, is it?

"its great to see it though" apparently instead of us "lumping it forward" - meanwhile we never score and play the most boring football every seen, then lose.

wadacrack

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

A bit of aimless possession around the back and to and from the midfield is hardly “playing better”, is it?

Better than playing kick and rush like we have been. We are averaging much more shots on goal. Eventually will lead to more goals. The team will develop to under Kenny. That was not the case with past regimes. Patience probably needed

mada999

Oat23 wrote: »

Always amazes me how many people in these threads didn't see this period of Irish football coming. The writing has been on the wall and people have been saying it here for years.

The NT has been going downhill for over a decade. Our best players are all retiring and they aren't being replaced by younger players just as talented because of years of neglect by the FAI.

We have two choices. We can go with a young, talented coach who understands modern football, like Kenny, develop an attractive style of play and mould young players coming through to play that style.

Or we can line up another dinosaur like Mick or MON to play stone age football and rob some draws/wins playing putrid football. Meanwhile the actual talent level of the players coming through will continue to drop as nothing is done to improve it/them because everything is grand when [Insert dinosaur coach here] manages to sneak us to the euros/world cup once every 10 years.

Sadly there are so many Irish fans happy with option B where are the 'also rans' as long as they get a p*ss up in a foreign land every now and again.

We can do far more at international level if people just remain patient and we invest in youth/grassroots football. It's going to take a while but it will be worth it.

Totally agree with everything you have wrote here. Long term neglect of the national team and grass roots is the FAI's fault. Pissing money away and not spending it on coaching and facilities... Irish soccer the needs a huge overhaul like Belgium

https://footballwhispers.com/blog/the-rise-of-belgium-national-football-team/

LuckyLloyd

wadacrack wrote: »

Better than playing kick and rush like we have been. We are averaging much more shots on goal. Eventually will lead to more goals. The team will develop to under Kenny. That was not the case with past regimes. Patience probably needed

Are we averaging much more shots at goal?

We aren’t any more competitive than we are under McCarthy anyway - infact we’ve gone backwards as far as that is concerned. And it’s the most important thing to focus on imo.

These narratives aren’t washing lads.

Witcher

wadacrack wrote: »

Better than playing kick and rush like we have been. We are averaging much more shots on goal. Eventually will lead to more goals. The team will develop to under Kenny. That was not the case with past regimes. Patience probably needed

Ya know things are bad when more shots on goal have to be used as a metric for success rather than actual goals or wins.

This is the stage Kenny's at now with Robbie Keane I'd say:pac:



'So he definitely won't be able to play against Bulgaria?'

NIMAN

As a Derry city fan, I'd be a big supporter of SK, but it's getting hard to see any positive improvement in the team under him.

Ok I know we might be passing it about better and more confidently, but this is a results business and the results so far are not good.

I appreciate it's a work in progress and he can only work with the players he has, but we aren't even scoring and we have been playing bang average teams. Thankfully we haven't had to meet Spain, Germany or Portugal, I'd fear what they'd do to us.

We need to see improvements soon.

mada999

mada999 wrote: »

Long term neglect of the national team and grass roots is the FAI's fault. Pissing money away and not spending it on coaching and facilities

This above isn't a new phenomenon though. The FAI have been a shambles for years.

Kenny is the most under qualified manager since Staunton and tbh looks worse than Stan. The decision to appoint him was insane imo. His CV doesn't warrant the job.

pjohnson

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Are we averaging much more shots at goal?

We aren’t any more competitive than we are under McCarthy anyway - infact we’ve gone backwards as far as that is concerned. And it’s the most important thing to focus on imo.

These narratives aren’t washing lads.

We won possession, shots, corners, yellow and red cards.

We only lost on goals and fouls, I'm sure we can get the team to make more fouls so we win that aswell.


This is apparently the bar we should hold Kenny too.

riffmongous

I think a few people need to go and have another look at the 'results' we've been getting the last few years, since 2017 who have we actually beaten in a competitive game? What's our record against Wales the last few years? All while playing some of the most turgid football ever seen.

thebronze14

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

The Senior Team is not a developmental role, sorry. By all means we should have a huge investment in the grass roots, a national academy and comprehensive development strategy. But the senior team plays for the result. The objective is to make the best of the available playing pool and be competitive as possible.

If Kenny cannot win football matches (or score a goal) the FAI will bring in someone who can. And this is decoupled from whatever we are doing or not doing with youth development. Conflating the two is bankrupt.

Who could we get in that would improve us??We had a Norwich Reserve, Wycombe and a bit part Stoke player as our front 3 today...This is a culmination of what has gone on for years. We were going nowhere under Mc Carthy either. Give him a campaign and see where we are then. It's always darkest before the dawn I hope!

LuckyLloyd

riffmongous wrote: »

I think a few people need to go and have another look at the 'results' we've been getting the last few years, since 2017 who have we actually beaten in a competitive game? What's our record against Wales the last few years? All while playing some of the most turgid football ever seen.

The ball was bouncing around the Danish box last November at the death and if it bounced in we would have been qualified. That’s where we were - competitive.

The previous campaign we made the playoffs - competitive.

The campaign before that we made the quarter final of the tournament itself - competitive.

If Kenny can’t be competitive he will be shown the door.

KungPao

I remember having a good laugh at Northern Ireland years ago under Sammy McIlroy. Couldn’t buy a goal. Hours and hours of football. Just couldn’t stick it in the onion bag. I never thought then we could ever sink so low.

We’re going to end up an Albania at this rate.

riffmongous

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

The ball was bouncing around the Danish box last November at the death and if it bounced in we would have been qualified. That’s where we were - competitive.

The previous campaign we made the playoffs - competitive.

The campaign before that we made the quarter final of the tournament itself - competitive.

If Kenny can’t be competitive he will be shown the door.

Who did we actually beat though? Go on, list them out. Kenny has just as much a chance of drawing his way through the group and scoring one or two against Gibraltar as anyone else did the last years

pjohnson

riffmongous wrote: »

Who did we actually beat though? Go on, list them out. Kenny has just as much a chance of drawing his way through the group and scoring one or two against Gibraltar as anyone else did the last years

TWO!

You need to lower those expectations. A good lead in possesion/shots is what matters most. Goals are overrated.

kksaints

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

The ball was bouncing around the Danish box last November at the death and if it bounced in we would have been qualified. That’s where we were - competitive.

The previous campaign we made the playoffs - competitive.

The campaign before that we made the quarter final of the tournament itself - competitive.

If Kenny can’t be competitive he will be shown the door.

We only made the round of 16 not the quarter finals.

LuckyLloyd

Grand lads - you have me on the second round versus the quarter final!

LuckyLloyd

riffmongous wrote: »

Who did we actually beat though? Go on, list them out. Kenny has just as much a chance of drawing his way through the group and scoring one or two against Gibraltar as anyone else did the last years

The first step is to not get beat.
Second step is to score a couple of goals.

Lots of supposed to’s around Kenny’s inability to achieve either thus far.

Hopefully we’ll have a better run against Bulgaria.

Witcher

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

The first step is to not get beat.
Second step is to score a couple of goals.

Lots of supposed to’s around Kenny’s inability to achieve either thus far.

Hopefully we’ll have a better run against Bulgaria.

The team is simultaneously sh1te as a whole and dragging Kenny down but he's also apparently missing some of his best players. Some amount of excuses anyway.

'The team's crap, what do you expect...but wait to see what he does next'

jones

SK has had no luck in fairness but it is a results business. We should have beaten Slovakia but didn't. I hope he gets time but if it keeps going like this it will turn toxic very quickly

scouserstation

Agreed Kenny has been unlucky with injuries and covid withdrawals, we are basically playing with a 2nd string squad at the moment, some of the more established players look like they were struggling in this game, Duffy, Hendrick, Hourihan, Brady have been off the mark and while there are encouraging signs from players such as o Shea, Molumbay and Idah, they still look like they are far from the finished product at this level,
I thought Collins did well when he came on and I would start him ahead of Idah in the next game, the lad looks like he could do with a break,
also Byrne did well when he came on and created a couple of decent chances, had it not been for that sloppy pass at the end I think he would of been shoe in to start v Bulgaria,
Knight is a good prospect but I think there are elements of his game that need improvement, he seemed to struggle a little when he was brought on, he needs to develop a bit more and I think a few more games with the u21s would do him the world of good

LeBash

Pudsy33 wrote: »

100% this, I totally understand the frustration with the ****e results but the standard of football, both in attack and defence, has been a massive stretch better than the MoN and Mccarthy eras. We haven't had our strongest team, or anything close to it really, available for any game. Let's give him one qualifying campaign before getting the knives out shall we?

I'd give him up to the next Euros. Poor results but the teams needed an overhaul for decades. Would we have finished higher than 3rd place playing a load of lads 1 campaign from retirement?

Its a very young squad and a little time should improve them. I think we will get the benefits of this for years if we keep it up.

Jimbob1977

The criteria for Qatar World Cup qualification is tough.

Europe has 13 berths.

10 group winners = 10 spots

10 runners up and two best Nations League non-qualifiers divided into three paths = 3 spots.

It's a tall order.

LuckyLloyd

Jimbob1977 wrote: »

The criteria for Qatar World Cup qualification is tough.

Europe has 13 berths.

10 group winners = 10 spots

10 runners up and two best Nations League non-qualifiers divided into three paths = 3 spots.

It's a tall order.

He isn't expected to qualify.

Just bring it down to the last round of games with a shot at the playoffs. That will do for a first crack at it.

Francie Barrett

Jimbob1977 wrote: »

The criteria for Qatar World Cup qualification is tough.

Europe has 13 berths.

10 group winners = 10 spots

10 runners up and two best Nations League non-qualifiers divided into three paths = 3 spots.

It's a tall order.

It gets worse. The recent string of bad results means we drop from the second pot to the third pot. Draw is in a month.

lawred2

Jimbob1977 wrote: »

The criteria for Qatar World Cup qualification is tough.

Europe has 13 berths.

10 group winners = 10 spots

10 runners up and two best Nations League non-qualifiers divided into three paths = 3 spots.

It's a tall order.

World cup qualification is not remotely in the sphere of reckoning for this Irish set up.

It's not going to serve any purpose talking about it.

briany

lawred2 wrote: »

World cup qualification is not remotely in the sphere of reckoning for this Irish set up.

It's not going to serve any purpose talking about it.

Yeah, even the qualifiers for the 2014 World Cup didn't have such a strong feeling that the team wouldn't be in with a shout of qualifying.

CrabRevolution

I'm a fan of SK, am glad of his appointment and don't think there's any threat to his job in the short term, but the narrative whiplash of the media/posters irks me a bit.

For the last 10 years we've been told that reaching playoffs and tournaments wasn't good enough, we're an embarrassment celebrating mediocrity, that we shouldn't be buying excuses of not having players, should be demanding more etc. A new manager who played a more attractive style was always called for and eventually after 2016, Kenny became the name in the spotlight.

But now that he's in charge and on a dire streak of results, the entire narrative has changed. Apparently we've been hopeless all along, being crap is our destiny, it's all the FAI's fault (not that I disagree) and scoring a single goal is too much to ask for.

If that's all true (and it probably mostly is), why was it not the case with the previous management teams? The Roy Keane-esque "I don't accept excuses" attitude evaporated overnight and now we've threads full of excuses. What was the magical point in time when excuses became OK?

briany

CrabRevolution wrote: »

I'm a fan of SK, am glad of his appointment and don't think there's any threat to his job in the short term, but the narrative whiplash of the media/posters irks me a bit.

For the last 10 years we've been told that reaching playoffs and tournaments wasn't good enough, we're an embarrassment celebrating mediocrity, that we shouldn't be buying excuses of not having players, should be demanding more etc. A new manager who played a more attractive style was always called for and eventually after 2016, Kenny became the name in the spotlight.

But now that he's in charge and on a dire streak of results, the entire narrative has changed. Apparently we've been hopeless all along, being crap is our destiny, it's all the FAI's fault (not that I disagree) and scoring a single goal is too much to ask for.

If that's all true (and it probably mostly is), why was it not the case with the previous management teams? The Roy Keane-esque "I don't accept excuses" attitude evaporated overnight and now we've threads full of excuses. What was the magical point in time when excuses became OK?

There has always been two factions of posters on this forum. One believes Ireland should try to develop a more attractive style of play. The other believes the players aren't there for this to be effective. The former faction has been in full voice prior to Kenny, because what they were saying was hypothetical. Now that it's not been successful (so far) they're a lot quieter.

~Rebel~

briany wrote: »

There has always been two factions of posters on this forum. One believes Ireland should try to develop a more attractive style of play. The other believes the players aren't there for this to be effective. The former faction has been in full voice prior to Kenny, because what they were saying was hypothetical. Now that it's not been successful (so far) they're a lot quieter.

I disagree that it's been shown that we can't play a more attractive style. We are playing a demonstrably more attractive style. The problem is that the chances we're making are not being taken. It seems illogical to say that the improved build up play should be jettisoned because the next phase isn't working. We need to keep the improved play, and add finishing.

Switching to a more direct style does not in any way improve our chances in the final third, it just makes it more likely that we get fewer chances, like we were under Mick.

Our problems are up front. That's where solutions should be aimed.

OMM 0000

It's true we're playing a more attractive style, but our players aren't good enough to beat our opponents.

Our international team is mostly players from lower leagues or players who rarely play for their teams. That's not good enough if you want to be competitive at international level.

It is what it is and the lack of success is to be expected.

pjohnson

Jimbob1977 wrote: »

The criteria for Qatar World Cup qualification is tough.

Europe has 13 berths.

10 group winners = 10 spots

10 runners up and two best Nations League non-qualifiers divided into three paths = 3 spots.

It's a tall order.

If we get 5 goals during qualifying and win possession in most games thats a success for Kenny and we should be delighted.

secman

We are at our level, seriously don't see why people expect us to be at any other level. FAI is insolvent, we barely have a league compared to any country in Europe. No other country in Europe has to contend with an organisation called the GAA, a well oiled machine. And furthermore most football fans in Ireland support British teams.