Gender Identity in Modern Ireland (Mod warnings and Threadbanned Users in OP)

Gruffalux

km991148 wrote: »

Should be put in jail if you ask me :pac:


My imaginary 16 year old hasn't got back to me yet. If I don't get an answer tonight shes getting imaginary grounded for two weeks. The problem these days is a lack of discipline in hypothetical teenagers.

Here's a real story for you.

https://grahamlinehan.substack.com/p/ashton-challenor-the-boy-who-disappeared

MynamesColm

mohawk wrote: »

What happens on the day sporting bodies are no longer allowed differentiate between transwomen and women without getting into legal trouble.

When that happens you may have something to complain about. But you don't know, and I don't know what rules will be established by organisations in the future.

You might be okay with people who went through male puberty being involved in contact sports with women, but some of us are not okay with that.

Ive just had a look at Fallon Fox's wiki, and seems like the requirements for her to be a licensed fighter were pretty strict...si yes, I'm okay with it.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

MynamesColm wrote: »

In fairness the list means nothing unless you look at the specifics.


Took a random few names and had a look at their wikis:


Fallon Fox (an mma fighter): Licensed fighter with strict rules for licensing trans fighters. "to be licensed, transgender female fighters must undergo complete "surgical anatomical changes ..., including external genitalia and gonadectomy and subsequently a minimum of two years of hormone replacement therapy, administered by a board certified specialist."

Urm, none of that would erase the benefits of a male puberty. Minor muscle loss with HRT but that’s about it. The advantages are numerous and mostly irreversible.

Aaaanddd Fallon Fox has broken a female fighter’s skull. Almost like there is some physical advantage there...

Gatling

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

She smashed a woman's skull. What's the big deal?

Wasn't there a young Australian female rugby player that had her thigh bone smashed in a single tackle with a male rugby player who self identifies as a woman

LLMMLL

Gruffalux wrote: »

In none of those cases would anyone have to be told.

So give us the criteria then? If you can always tell who is trans and who isn't you must be able to tell us how to do it?

MynamesColm

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

She smashed a woman's skull. What's the big deal?

Crickets a tougher sport than I realised I guess....

km991148

Gruffalux wrote: »

Here's a real story for you.

https://grahamlinehan.substack.com/p/ashton-challenor-the-boy-who-disappeared

Fcuk - thats like an episode of coronation street - whats this single article supposed to prove or disprove?

EDIT - Also its just a bunch of images and stuff on a blog post?

If you'd consented to a being examined by a woman obstetrician/gynacologist who subsequently turned out to be trans-woman, is that sexual assault I wonder.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

IAMAMORON wrote: »

The fact that you refuse to admit that transgenders are entitled to equal rights for starters?

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

Direct me to where I have said that. The quote, please.

Well?

juice1304

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

No, the sex of the baby is determined from the moment of conception. The foetus in early development starts to develop as a female but later on, gene expression kicks in. Those XX and XY chromosomes are there from the moment of conception. It’s not just some kind of pot luck.

On the rest of your post, you and others are missing the point a bit. People can live however they want to, except where their rights encroach on the rights of others. I find the comparison to gay rights a bit superficial. There is an added layer here, the significant biological differences between males and females. Those differences can’t be magicked away. We can’t ignore them.

All human individuals—whether they have an XX, an XY, or an atypical sex chromosome combination—begin development from the same starting point. During early development the gonads of the fetus remain undifferentiated; that is, all fetal genitalia are the same and are phenotypically female. After approximately 6 to 7 weeks of gestation, however, the expression of a gene on the Y chromosome induces changes that result in the development of the testes.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK222286/

km991148

MikeOxsgreen wrote: »

If you'd consented to a being examined by a woman obstetrician/gynacologist who subsequently turned out to be trans-woman, is that sexual assault I wonder.

If a sexual assault took place, then certainly.

Gatling

MikeOxsgreen wrote: »

If you'd consented to a being examined by a woman obstetrician/gynacologist who subsequently turned out to be trans-woman, is that sexual assault I wonder.

The woman could very well have a case , considering its considered an intimate examination,I also know you can request to be examined by another doctor if you are uncomfortable with the one who sent to examine you ,
,only came across one male gynecologist ( total arsehole ) before

womens skulls getting smashed- "lol, cricket joke"

i dunno, for a side of the debate that are very quick to scream about everyone being a terf or anti-trans theres a high proportion of yis that sure seem......like really, genuinely hostile to cis women

only observing myself, so no data, but its almost always those who identify as mtf trans who really do seem either alarmingly unfeeling or strikingly callous about the concerns or fears from cis women about the rights being demanded with little debate

i mean hey its only perceptions but i dunno.

really bad look, imo

Gervais08

LLMMLL wrote: »

So give us the criteria then? If you can always tell who is trans and who isn't you must be able to tell us how to do it?

You can tell who’s a man - in the previous post you were given numerous examples and typically shot every one of them down, as they were scientific and real.

MynamesColm

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

Urm, none of that would erase the benefits of a male puberty. Minor muscle loss with HRT but that’s about it. The advantages are numerous and mostly irreversible.

Aaaanddd Fallon Fox has broken a female fighter’s skull. Almost like there is some physical advantage there...

I guess Fallon Fox has won all her fights so, what with the massive advantag....oh...no...she hasn't?



I don't claim to be an expert, but there are rules in place for trans mma fighters.


Its not a reason to deny people rights or recognition.

km991148

MikeOxsgreen wrote: »

If you'd consented to a being examined by a woman obstetrician/gynacologist who subsequently turned out to be trans-woman, is that sexual assault I wonder.

It another made up scenario as well. Not as imaginative as the others, but how does this further the conversation?

I am pretty sure (unless you know otherwise) they would know how to handle this situation. Usually by discussion using words and sentences..

Gervais08

MikeOxsgreen wrote: »

If you'd consented to a being examined by a woman obstetrician/gynacologist who subsequently turned out to be trans-woman, is that sexual assault I wonder.

I’d certainly follow it up as such.

Gruffalux

LLMMLL wrote: »

So give us the criteria then? If you can always tell who is trans and who isn't you must be able to tell us how to do it?

I cannot always tell. Just like I sometimes wonder if a friend is pregnant or just a bit porky
I have said before elsewhere in our long slow painful waltz, LLMMLL, that women have accommodated transwomen generously and compassionately for long ages in our/their spaces. And would likely have continued to do so forever until we were suddenly hauled out and told we would accept the ascientific transubstantiation power of gender theory ideology whether we bloody liked it or not or else be shamed into submission.
Now there are zero requirements for cosmetic efforts in order to be a woman under your creed. All that is required is thought. I would probably be really REALLY good at picking out the men who become women simply by the power of thought.

km991148

km991148 wrote: »

If a sexual assault took place, then certainly.

Whats sexual assault?

Unwanted....

LLMMLL

[Deleted User] wrote: »

womens skulls getting smashed- "lol, cricket joke"

i dunno, for a side of the debate that are very quick to scream about everyone being a terf or anti-trans theres a high proportion of yis that sure seem......like really, genuinely hostile to cis women

only observing myself, so no data, but its almost always those who identify as mtf trans who really do seem either alarmingly unfeeling or strikingly callous about the concerns or fears from cis women about the rights being demanded with little debate

i mean hey its only perceptions but i dunno.

really bad look, imo

It's actually TERFs who centred the debate around cis women.

LLMMLL

LLMMLL wrote: »

It's actually TERFs who centred the debate around cis women.

tbh id be more inclined to give credence to that from someone who didnt see terfs like joe mccarthy saw commies

your threshold for use of the term renders is absolutely meaningless

LLMMLL

Gruffalux wrote: »

I cannot always tell. Just like I sometimes wonder if a friend is pregnant or just a bit porky
I have said before elsewhere in our long slow painful waltz, LLMMLL, that women have accommodated transwomen generously and compassionately for long ages in our/their spaces. And would likely have continued to do so forever until we were suddenly hauled out and told we would accept the ascientific transubstantiation power of gender theory ideology whether we bloody liked it or not or else be shamed into submission.
Now there are zero requirements for cosmetic efforts in order to be a woman under your creed. All that is required is thought. I would probably be really REALLY good at picking out the men who become women simply by the power of thought.

So if you can't tell then how can you ensure that you always have a cis woman doctor or strip searched by a cis woman?

Gruffalux

km991148 wrote: »

Fcuk - thats like an episode of coronation street - whats this single article supposed to prove or disprove?

EDIT - Also its just a bunch of images and stuff on a blog post?

No. It is a true story about Aimee Challenor, prominent UK Green Party politician, and their former Equality Spokesperson for England and Wales

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

juice1304 wrote: »

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK222286/

Yes, as I said, for a short period, the foetus develops as female. However, their karyotype is in place from conception. It’s not pot luck, it’s just how the foetus develops. If the foetus is XY, that will kick in eventually. The bit you quote even mentioned the gene expression kicking in that I cited earlier.

What is your point here?

km991148

km991148 wrote: »

It another made up scenario as well. Not as imaginative as the others, but how does this further the conversation?

I am pretty sure (unless you know otherwise) they would know how to handle this situation. Usually by discussion using words and sentences..

Apologies o thread arbiter...

I mistakenly raised a discussion point about the potential implications of gender identity in a thread... well about gender identity which obviously hasn't been to your satisfaction.

IAMAMORON

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

It is indeed shared. Rights come with responsibilities. Some rights that transgender people are asking for conflict with the rights of others. This is where it becomes the business of others. A vague “Awww, be kind” sentiment solves nothing.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

Well?

In your quote above you are stating that non transgendered persons have a fundamental right above transgenders, you have sighted instances were transgenders are looking to impede on other human rights.

That in itself is impeding on a human right based on their gender alone. That is what I queried in your tone.

Don't try to turn it around. The question in my opinion is not about gender identity,, it is about the human right of any human to assume their own.

The argument that just because non transgenders are having to faciltiate transgenders actually subjugates the human rights of transgenders. There is no counter argument here. No human has the right to enforce a life or lifestyle on another. There is no hierarchy based on gender identity, transgenders are humans too.

Gervais08

IAMAMORON wrote: »

In your quote above you are stating that non transgendered persons have a fundamental right above transgenders, you have sighted instances were transgenders are looking to impede on other human rights.

That in itself is impeding on a human right based on their gender alone. That is what I queried in your tone.

Don't try to turn it around. The question in my opinion is not about gender identity,, it is about the human right of any human to assume their own.

The argument that just because non transgenders are having to faciltiate transgenders actually subjugates the human rights of transgenders. There is no counter argument here. No human has the right to enforce a life or lifestyle on another. There is no hierarchy based on gender identity, transgenders are humans too.

You were provided with an example and typically discarded it because it didn’t fit with your thoughts.

km991148

MikeOxsgreen wrote: »

Apologies o thread arbiter...

I mistakenly raised a discussion point about the potential implications of gender identity in a thread... well about gender identity which obviously hasn't been to your satisfaction.

I simply fail to see how trading hypothetical situations about made up pervy transgendered 50 year old swimmers or hospitals with transgendered gynaecologists (that are at the same time completely ignorant of transgender issues) any use? What are you trying to prove? I could invoke any imaginary situation to prove any point I wanted if that were the case?

km991148

km991148 wrote: »

It another made up scenario as well. Not as imaginative as the others, but how does this further the conversation?

I am pretty sure (unless you know otherwise) they would know how to handle this situation. Usually by discussion using words and sentences..

Your dismissive attitude to sexual assault of women speaks volumes...

"Discussion using words and sentences..."
Indeed.


Misogyny much?

MynamesColm

Deleted User wrote: »

womens skulls getting smashed- "lol, cricket joke"

i dunno, for a side of the debate that are very quick to scream about everyone being a terf or anti-trans theres a high proportion of yis that sure seem......like really, genuinely hostile to cis women

only observing myself, so no data, but its almost always those who identify as mtf trans who really do seem either alarmingly unfeeling or strikingly callous about the concerns or fears from cis women about the rights being demanded with little debate

i mean hey its only perceptions but i dunno.

really bad look, imo

I'm not any kind of activist mind, I just think there is a lot of silliness going on in this thread. One person getting hurt in a combat sport isn't surprising or noteworthy to me.



I don't know what that list of trans sports people was supposed to prove, except that trans people play sports. Very few were at anywhere near an elite level.


And to be honest, that cricket joke was pretty silly, but I'm sorry you felt offended by it.