Gender Identity in Modern Ireland (Mod warnings and Threadbanned Users in OP)

One eyed Jack

[Deleted User] wrote: »

If a person came up to you and you assumed they were a man due to their physical features, and were told by that person
that they were in fact female, would you accept it without question or would you assume they were "acting like a prick"?

Sure, from just the circumstances you present above, it’s absolutely and has never been any skin off my nose whatsoever to refer to anyone however they wished to be addressed. Generally in my experience people prefer to be referred to by their first name. There are exceptions to those circumstances too of course where I would not permit either my son or his friends to refer to me by my first name, but other parents are cool with that sort of thing. It’s just a basic courtesy really, I don’t tend to overthink these things to the degree that some people here do.


Now if only I could get the young lad to stop referring to me as “Maaaaaaaa” whenever he’s looking for something, that’d be great. It’s always “Dad” when he wants money :pac:

Smacruairi

No one is saying he is a woman z everyone knows he isn't. But you and your friends have gone on for ages that if someone says they are a women then they are a woman. But no suddenly because this guy made a fool out of that theory, you're throwing toys out of the pram and have repeatedly called him a prick. It's very funny to everyone how hypocritical one person can be in one thread.

Joeytheparrot

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

The guy was a prick carrying out a stunt to get attention. The inconsistencies here are coming from those who suddenly want him recognised as a woman. Not me.

He may have been a prick. That's absolutely irrelevant.

People are asking the likes of YOU, if you are going to be consistent in your attitudes when it comes to self ID when situations like this prove it to be a nonsense. Until his admission, you would have had zero cause to accuse him of acting the prick if your position on self id remained consistent.

Nobody suddenly wants this person recognised as a female, we are just calling out glaring flaws and blatent hypocrisy.

Gruffalux

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

Nope. I didnt say that. I said this particular man is a prick because of this attention seeking stunt. There is lots of hopping up and down above saying he should be taken seriously as a woman..

''Attention seeking stunt'' versus '' Action that exposes safeguarding loophole''

Joeytheparrot

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

There is lots of hopping up and down above saying he should be taken seriously as a woman..

No. There isn't.

Annasopra

Smacruairi wrote: »

No one is saying he is a woman z everyone knows he isn't. But you and your friends have gone on for ages that if someone says they are a women then they are a woman. But no suddenly because this guy made a fool out of that theory, you're throwing toys out of the pram and have repeatedly called him a prick. It's very funny to everyone how hypocritical one person can be in one thread.

This was a stunt to draw attention to himself, his political career and to mock trans people. Therefore I have no problem insulting him.

Gatling

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

There is lots of hopping up and down above saying he should be taken seriously as a woman..

They identified as woman and were taken seriously and allowed to compete in a women's event


Compete -
strive to gain or win something by defeating or establishing superiority over others.

Establishing superiority over others

One eyed Jack

Gatling wrote: »

No sorry you wouldn't they would have still have entered the race and you would have been utterly powerless to stop them ,you would have been labelled as a transpobic bigot

Well neither of us know whether they would still have been allowed to enter the race if I had told them to piss off. That’s all hypothetical, which is why I said that IF I had been one of the organisers, I would have done so, and if I HAD been one of the organisers, then clearly I would have had the power to stop them.

Do you think it matters to me if I’m labelled a transphobic bigot? ****s sake man I’m Catholic, spent most of my life being called a paedophile by people I knew couldn’t give less of a shìt about children, in the same way as you’re using child abuse to shore up your effort of an argument against the Tavistock.

It’s quite obvious when someone doesn’t care and is only looking to get a rise, much like yer man acting the prick and trying to make a story out of nothing.

Joeytheparrot

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

This was a stunt to draw attention to himself, his political career and to mock trans people. Therefore I have no problem insulting him.

Insult away. But your opinion of him isn't the issue. You know this.

Gatling

One eyed Jack wrote: »

That’s all hypothetical, which is why I said that IF I had been one of the organisers, I would have done so, and if I HAD been one of the organisers, then clearly I would have had the power to stop them.

No you wouldn't and that's not a hypothetical situation either way you would have been and are completely powerless to stop them in any event

Gruffalux

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

This was a stunt to draw attention to himself, his political career and to mock trans people. Therefore I have no problem insulting him.

1 in 10 travelers/Roma community in UK prisons identify as trans in order to try and obtain privileges. 1 in 50 in the general male population identify as trans and given that the background population has about 0.5% trans then either there is a lot of mocking going on or trans people have a crime problem (which I do not believe). What are we going to do with all them mocking pricks?

One eyed Jack

[Deleted User] wrote: »

He may have been a prick. That's absolutely irrelevant.

To you it may be irrelevant, sure, but to other people it’s the fundamental issue which represents the difference in circumstances between someone who is just pretending to be the opposite sex for the purposes of engineering a situation where they could claim discrimination, and someone who is genuinely being discriminated against.

One is being a prick, the other is doing no harm to anyone else.

Gatling

Gruffalux wrote: »

1 in 10 travelers/Roma community in UK prisons identify as trans in order to try and obtain privileges. 1 in 50 in the general male population identify as trans and given that the background population has about 0.5% trans then either there is a lot of mocking going on or trans people have a crime problem (which I do not believe). What are we going to do with all them mocking pricks?

Where is the mocking exactly ,
A person self identified as a woman and entered woman's sporting event , isn't this exactly an example of self Identity at work ,
It's that simple to chose or decide what and who you are on any day of the week

One eyed Jack

One eyed Jack wrote: »

To you it may be irrelevant, sure, but to other people it’s the fundamental issue which represents the difference in circumstances between someone who is just pretending to be the opposite sex for the purposes of engineering a situation where they could claim discrimination, and someone who is genuinely being discriminated against.

One is being a prick, the other is doing no harm to anyone else.

It is irrelevant to the issue of the flaws of the position some people on here hold with regards to self identification.

You would have no indication that this person was a prick unless they admitted it.

One eyed Jack

Gatling wrote: »

No you wouldn't and that's not a hypothetical situation either way you would have been and are completely powerless to stop them in any event

You think you know what I’d do in that situation better than I do? You clearly don’t know me at all. And if I were one of the organisers, then of course I would have had the power to stop them from participating in the event, I would have had the power to stop anyone whom I didn’t want to from participating in the event, and like I said - they would still have the right to pursue legal action in those circumstances. I said they were welcome to do so.

Gruffalux

One eyed Jack wrote: »

To you it may be irrelevant, sure, but to other people it’s the fundamental issue which represents the difference in circumstances between someone who is just pretending to be the opposite sex for the purposes of engineering a situation where they could claim discrimination, and someone who is genuinely being discriminated against.

One is being a prick, the other is doing no harm to anyone else.

What about someone who is presenting as the opposite sex because it is how they get their sexual satisfaction? Can they be discriminated against or must they be facilitated to act out their fantasy?

Girly Gal

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

The guy was a prick carrying out a stunt to get attention. The inconsistencies here are coming from those who suddenly want him recognised as a woman. Not me.

But, how could you be certain of that, it's quite possible that he could well have been genuine and did identify as female and was in very early stages of transition, can you imagine the outcry if he was genuine and not let run as a female, heads would roll

One eyed Jack

Gruffalux wrote: »

What about someone who is presenting as the opposite sex because it is how they get their sexual satisfaction? Can they be discriminated against or must they be facilitated to act out their fantasy?

Yes they can? That seems like a rather obvious question, or am I missing some material fact that you’ll present as an extension of this hypothetical scenario?

Gatling

One eyed Jack wrote: »

You think you know what I’d do in that situation better than I do? You clearly don’t know me at all. And if I were one of the organisers, then of course I would have had the power to stop them from participating in the event, .

You have no power , no power to stop anyone participating in any event welcome to self identity 101 ,you can Choose any identity on any day of the week enter any space or event you choose to and nobody can stop you

Gruffalux

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Yes they can? That seems like a rather obvious question, or am I missing some material fact that you’ll present as an extension of this hypothetical scenario?

It is not hypothetical. I have presented stats over the past few weeks that show 3 - 10% of males cross dress whereas 0.5% of people are trans, and cross dressers thus vastly outnumber transgender people seeking legal protection under the trans umbrella.

So I am to understand that your opinion is that males who are practising a paraphilia must not be discriminated against and should have unlimited access to intimate female public spaces as they desire?

Smacruairi

You know what, I think even Stephen Wonder can see that the 2bucks here are completely hypocritical on this issue. Just don't allow them to drag this into the muck with irrelevant link dumps and posturing. The emperor has been called out on their lack of clothes, now they can shuffle home seething that they've been exposed.

One eyed Jack

[Deleted User] wrote: »

It is irrelevant to the issue of the flaws of the position some people on here hold with regards to self identification.

You would have no indication that this person was a prick unless they admitted it.

Of course I would when the guy, by his own admission, feigned offence. It’s the very same way I formed the judgement that you were being facetious in trying to equate the circumstances we’re talking about with self-ID in Irish law to try and point out an inconsistency which doesn’t exist. Trinity Campus can make up whatever rules for competitions they like as long as they are within the law and decide who can or cannot compete as long as they are within the law. A determination that he was discriminated against could only be made IF he had been discriminated against. He wasn’t, so how does it relate to Self-ID laws?

Gatling

Girly Gal wrote: »

But, how could you be certain of that, it's quite possible that he could well have been genuine and did identify as female and was in very early stages of transition, can you imagine the outcry if he was genuine and not let run as a female, heads would roll

They don't ever have to transition in the first place ,a 6"4 man built like an outhouse with a full beard and tattoos can enter into events and spaces just by self declaration they are female ,
The majority of people don't ever physically transition no surgery no nothing ,they may dress more feminine or masculine but that's as far as many go

One eyed Jack

Gatling wrote: »

You have no power , no power to stop anyone participating in any event welcome to self identity 101 ,you can Choose any identity on any day of the week enter any space or event you choose to and nobody can stop you

I have no power over the organisation of this particular event, because I wasn’t one of the organisers!

One eyed Jack

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Of course I would when the guy, by his own admission, feigned offence. It’s the very same way I formed the judgement that you were being facetious in trying to equate the circumstances we’re talking about with self-ID in Irish law to try and point out an inconsistency which doesn’t exist.

People on here who believe that a man can be a woman or a woman can be a man just by identifying as such is what I am talking about.

Those very people are the ones who are inconsistent when it comes to this situation.

Your claim that you would be able to see through this person's façade and tell them to piss off is laughable. There is no way in hell you would tell a self identifying woman that they should piss off because you don't believe them

One eyed Jack

Gruffalux wrote: »

It is not hypothetical. I have presented stats over the past few weeks that show 3 - 10% of males cross dress whereas 0.5% of people are trans, and cross dressers thus vastly outnumber transgender people seeking legal protection under the trans umbrella.

So I am to understand that your opinion is that males who are practising a paraphilia must not be discriminated against and should have unlimited access to intimate female public spaces as they desire?

If that’s your understanding, then you clearly haven’t read what I wrote -

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Yes they can? That seems like a rather obvious question, or am I missing some material fact that you’ll present as an extension of this hypothetical scenario?

I was wondering where the question was coming from or what was I missing, because ‘Yes’ is the obvious answer, and you would know that ‘Yes’ is the obvious answer, and that’s not just an opinion, it’s enshrined in Irish equality legislation that there are circumstances in which discrimination is permitted and perfectly lawful.

Gatling

One eyed Jack wrote: »

I have no power over the organisation of this particular event, because I wasn’t one of the organisers!

You have no power over anyone who self identifies as a woman or man who wants to access a space or event .
None what's so ever ,you can hypotheticalise I would do and I could ,but you don't or can't stop anyone ,

Girly Gal

Gatling wrote: »

They don't ever have to transition in the first place ,a 6"4 man built like an outhouse with a full beard and tattoos can enter into events and spaces just by self declaration they are female ,
The majority of people don't ever physically transition no surgery no nothing ,they may dress more feminine or masculine but that's as far as many go

Well if there's zero attempt at transition then that's absolutely ridiculous, it's not only ridiculous it's actually damaging to genuine trans people

One eyed Jack

[Deleted User] wrote: »

People on here who believe that a man can be a woman or a woman can be a man just by identifying as such is what I am talking about.

Those very people are the ones who are inconsistent when it comes to this situation.

Your claim that you would be able to see through this person's façade and tell them to piss off is laughable. There is no way in hell you would tell a self identifying woman that they should piss off because you don't believe them

I would have no issue with telling anyone to piss off if I thought they were acting the prick, I don’t discriminate based upon either sex or gender identity.

One eyed Jack

Gatling wrote: »

You have no power over anyone who self identifies as a woman or man who wants to access a space or event .
None what's so ever ,you can hypotheticalise I would do and I could ,but you don't or can't stop anyone ,

Gatling I have no idea what you’re getting at here but you’re simply incorrect.