Gender Identity in Modern Ireland (Mod warnings and Threadbanned Users in OP)

Gatling

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Essentially, call her when people are ready to have a discussion on

Women , woman feminist , not masqueradest nonsense men are women because they say so .not that they are men first and foremost

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

A huge amount of Irish women are trans inclusive though. Nah its not that small.

https://feministire.com/2018/01/22/an-open-letter-to-the-organisers-of-the-we-need-to-talk-tour-from-a-group-of-feminists-in-ireland/

Oh yes, we’re all well aware that there are plenty of women willing to chuck our hard-won rights under the bus. I’m not looking for their approval, personally.

Gatling

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

Oh yes, we’re all well aware that there are plenty of women willing to chuck our hard-won rights under the bus. I’m not looking for their approval, personally.

Imagine men telling women about what womanhood and sisterhood is really about ,as a man I certainly couldn't tell you about womanhood and sisterhood,
A get some men will struggle with manhood and brotherhood and find it quite funny to start telling women whose a woman and what should be removed to suit a one lobby group or another based off that list ,it seems to be a group who wants control over woman's bodies and choices

Joeytheparrot

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

A huge amount of Irish women are trans inclusive though. Nah its not that small.

https://feministire.com/2018/01/22/an-open-letter-to-the-organisers-of-the-we-need-to-talk-tour-from-a-group-of-feminists-in-ireland/

Feminist ire dot com.

Hahahahaha.

That's ****ing pathetic

One eyed Jack

Gatling wrote: »

Yes I do ,

As long as your not been intentionally offensive ,but yes I call it as I see it and I'm more than happy to call out hypocrisy,and if people feel the need to cry teacher teacher mods get in here and remove this that because I'm offended doesn't go down too well either but I believe thats something the majority of posters agree with

If you have to qualify your statement that you think you can say what you like, with the qualifier that you can only do so as long as you’re not being intentionally offensive, then you’re clearly aware that you can’t just say what you like about other people.

And people are just as entitled as you are to call it like they see it, so if they see people being exclusionary when people are being exclusionary, they’re only calling it like they see it too! And when people find what someone is saying offensive, they’re entitled to make a complaint, whether that person or group of people intended to be offensive or not.

Claiming to be only calling it like they see it about anyone is not the freedom from consequences card anyone thinks it is. It’s why people get fired from their employment, because employers have a greater duty to their employees to protect them, as well as protecting the reputation of their organisation, when an employee chooses to make themselves a liability.

One eyed Jack

One eyed Jack wrote: »

you’re celebrating his behaviour because according to you and a few others, it shows the flaws in self-ID. It doesn’t, because he could have done what he did even if self-ID in Irish law had never existed, he could still exploit people who were acting in good faith towards him acting in bad faith towards them, to make a point that people could act in bad faith towards other people!

Nobody mentioned Irish law. This was gender self-identification at the level of a sports organisation. And of course the fact that he could exploit people acting in good faith was specifically because the organisers didn’t want to challenge his claim he was female.it a product of trans gender ideology itself.

By the way plenty of people have claimed that exactly this would happen that any male, trans or not can invade women sports (or changing rooms or bathrooms) you have either denied it would happen or suggested it was bigoted to worry about it.

Annasopra

Gatling wrote: »

Imagine men telling women about what womanhood and sisterhood is really about ,as a man I certainly couldn't tell you about womanhood and sisterhood,
A get some men will struggle with manhood and brotherhood and find it quite funny to start telling women whose a woman and what should be removed to suit a one lobby group or another based off that list ,it seems to be a group who wants control over woman's bodies and choices

The list of women is not men telling women anything. Given their feminist advocacy and pro choice stances of choice and control over their own bodies it really is hilarious you try and twist their stances completely the wrong way round. Its really is laughable to suggest anyone who supports trans rights wants to control womens bodies.

One eyed Jack

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Nobody mentioned Irish law.

I did though, because that’s all that actually matters as far as I’m concerned in protecting people from unlawful discrimination on the basis of their gender identity.

[Deleted User] wrote: »

By the way plenty of people have claimed that exactly this would happen that any male, trans or not can invade women sports (or changing rooms or bathrooms) you have either denied it would happen or suggested it was bigoted to worry about it.

I’ve never denied it, and I’ve never suggested it was bigoted to worry about it. I know well it happens, I’ve already said myself I occasionally use women’s bathrooms, and I’ve used unisex bathrooms and unisex changing rooms. I suggested people who worried about being attacked in bathrooms or changing rooms were being paranoid, I’d even say they were irrational, as the likelihood of it happening compared to circumstances where people are actually attacked, abused and violated, happens more in people’s homes, than the remote possibility it could happen in a public place.

Gatling

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

The list of women is not men telling women anything. Given their feminist advocacy and pro choice stances of choice and control over their own bodies

A few women and advocacy groups for migrants , racism and anti abortion groups the kind of group that doesn't want other women to have control over women's choices over their own bodies..

I take it you didn't read the several year old blog post you linked to,

Not one bit surprised

One eyed Jack

Gatling wrote: »

A few women and advocacy groups for migrants , racism and anti abortion groups the kind of group that doesn't want other women to have control over women's choices over their own bodies..

I take it you didn't read the several year old blog post you linked to,

Not one bit surprised

Have you?


Signing organisations:

The Abortion Rights Campaign
ARN – Anti-Racism Network Ireland
Bi+ Ireland
Choice Ireland
Galway Pro-Choice
Gay Community News
Hate and Hostility Research Group at the University of Limerick
National LGBT Federation
Parents for Choice in Pregnancy and Childbirth
Rally for Choice
UCD Centre for Gender, Feminisms & Sexualities


As opposed to a handful of posters here, and your claim to have read somewhere that 50% of women are afraid to talk about it. That “silent majority agrees with me” nonsense isn’t going to fly.

Gatling

One eyed Jack wrote: »

That “silent majority agrees with me” nonsense isn’t going to fly.

Lol ,

Sure why would you do anything but deny it ,

It's a minority on here thats making the claim men are women based off a feeling ,
An absolute minority of three is it

Gatling

It's trying to create an echo chamber of alternative reality , where women are being deleted under the guise of inclusiveness by excluding them from their own gender and sex ,based off a feeling of a few ,
Billions Vs a few litterally

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

Personally, I have no idea how many Irish women agree with me on this subject and how many don’t. I don’t use that as a tool to shape my opinions. I’m sure plenty of women do disagree with me on this subject. I don’t really care. I’m not looking to be popular. If it turned out that I actually had lots of support, I’d be pleasantly surprised but who knows? That link from Joey isn’t very informative either. A list of names, a list of organisations and workplaces. Was every woman in those workplaces and organisations asked her views on these topics? I doubt it. Would they all be truthful if they knew their organisation had an official stance on the topic?

But if I needed “Yeah well, lots of women agree with me!” as a prop for my stance, I’d be reexamining that stance and how much I really believed in it and how strong it really is.

Gatling

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

But if I needed “Yeah well, lots of women agree with me!” as a prop for my stance, I’d be reexamining that stance and how much I really believed in it and how strong it really is.

Coming from the only woman posting on the thread ,sound like good advice

One eyed Jack

Gatling wrote: »

It's trying to create an echo chamber of alternative reality , where women are being deleted under the guise of inclusiveness by excluding them from their own gender and sex ,based off a feeling of a few ,
Billions Vs a few litterally

I could probably agree with you on the numbers alright, but the “women being deleted” bit is just as much an alternative version of reality. One of the defining characteristics of feminism of all flavours is that it is primarily founded upon women’s liberation, emancipation and empowerment. The idea then that all feminists are expected to adhere to a single doctrine would be contradictory to that philosophy.

Surely one of the most obvious outcomes of feminism is that women gain the power to speak for themselves, and as it turns out, intersectional trans inclusive feminism is promoted by far greater numbers of feminists than the tiny minority of trans exclusionary feminists. In that sense at least, you’re correct - it really is millions of feminists who are speaking for themselves, vs a tiny minority of feminists who still imagine they speak for all women.

Invidious

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

A huge amount of Irish women are trans inclusive though. Nah its not that small.

https://feministire.com/2018/01/22/an-open-letter-to-the-organisers-of-the-we-need-to-talk-tour-from-a-group-of-feminists-in-ireland/

Where does this "open letter" state how many Irish women are trans inclusive?

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

Gatling wrote: »

Coming from the only woman posting on the thread ,sound like good advice

I think Gruffalux and Volchitsa might take take exception to that! :pac: There’s a few others I think also.

Invidious wrote: »

Where does this "open letter" state how many Irish women are trans inclusive?

I think we’re to take it that the list of names in that open letter is a large enough sample size to say how Irish women feel on the topic or something. But I don’t know how many names are listed.

Gatling

One eyed Jack wrote: »

I could probably agree with you on the numbers alright, but the “women being deleted” bit is just as much an alternative version of reality.

But it's this reality were in not an alternative reality ,
Women , woman , girl , mother , sister all now offensive,
jk Rowling take a bow for standing up to this fad , women don't need men feinting shock and disbelief and outage that women have periods , breasts ,have children and have maternal instinct,
Gynecologist and maternity services and breastfeed ,

Only women understand what's it's to be a woman , shocking and offensive to who a cohort of men ,

One eyed Jack

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Have you?


Signing organisations:

The Abortion Rights Campaign
ARN – Anti-Racism Network Ireland
Bi+ Ireland
Choice Ireland
Galway Pro-Choice
Gay Community News
Hate and Hostility Research Group at the University of Limerick
National LGBT Federation
Parents for Choice in Pregnancy and Childbirth
Rally for Choice
UCD Centre for Gender, Feminisms & Sexualities


As opposed to a handful of posters here, and your claim to have read somewhere that 50% of women are afraid to talk about it. That “silent majority agrees with me” nonsense isn’t going to fly.

I’d say 95% of people don’t believe men are women just because of self declaration. Would hope so anyway. If not the west is truly doomed.

Gatling

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

I think Gruffalux and Volchitsa might take take exception to that! :pac: There’s a few others I think also.

Apologies ladies , completely forgot about you's ...

Invidious

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

I think we’re to take it that the list of names in that open letter is a large enough sample size to say how Irish women feel on the topic or something. But I don’t know how many names are listed.

Listing the names of some women who agree with the letter's sentiments doesn't tell us anything about how Irish women as a whole feel about the topic.

Women who disagree, by definition, won't have signed the letter. That doesn't mean they don't exist.

One eyed Jack

Gatling wrote: »

But it's this reality were in not an alternative reality ,
Women , woman , girl , mother , sister all now offensive,
jk Rowling take a bow for standing up to this fad , women don't need men feinting shock and disbelief and outage that women have periods , breasts ,have children and have maternal instinct,
Gynecologist and maternity services and breastfeed ,

Only women understand what's it's to be a woman , shocking and offensive to who a cohort of men ,

Who has ever claimed those terms were offensive? No, the claim has always been that they are inadequate for people who do not define themselves in those terms, and then there are people who claim that people can not define themselves in those terms. In reality, actual reality and not just the reality that suits you, people can use whatever terms they feel are appropriate to define themselves. Nobody can stop them, and they don’t need anyone else’s permission to define themselves however they wish.

It’s absolute nonsense to say only women understand what it is to be a woman, and I’d say the same to anyone who thought the corollary of that in relation to men - that only men could understand what it is to be a man. I don’t even need to point out the fallacy behind the ideology which takes no account of the fact that people are individuals who are shaped by their individual thoughts, beliefs and experiences, which are as individual and unique as they are. Anyone can define what either womanhood or manhood means to them, and their ideas may or may not resonate with other people.

There’s nothing offensive about your idea that only a woman can know what it is to be a woman, it’s simply redundant circular logic when in reality anyone can define themselves as a woman, and there’s literally nothing anyone can do to prevent them or stop them from doing so. That’s reality.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

Invidious wrote: »

Listing the names of some women who agree with the letter's sentiments doesn't tell us anything about how Irish women as a whole feel about the topic.

Women who disagree, by definition, won't have signed the letter. That doesn't mean they don't exist.

Well indeed.

I’m also annoyed by the framing of anyone who questions anything to do with the clash of transgender rights and sex-based rights as right wing. I mean, fucking LOL. I am left leaning. I’m pro-choice, voting to repeal the eighth in 2018. I would have voted for marriage equality had I had not been prevented from voting for very good reasons in 2015. I’m for the welfare state etc. etc.

I just don’t mindlessly agree with every “progressive” cause. I put progressive in inverted commas there because I think some supposedly progressive ideas are decidedly regressive. And not jumping on board every progressive bandwagon doesn’t make me right-wing.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

Deleted User wrote: »

I’d say 95% of people don’t believe men are women just because of self declaration. Would hope so anyway. If not the west is truly doomed.

Well, this official survey done in the UK a few years ago is very interesting. Once you work past the feel-good generalities and get down to the brass tacks, people have concerns; both men and women and across age groups and political lines. There’s a lot of information to unpack there. But it’s a very interesting survey.

Invidious

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

I just don’t mindlessly agree with every “progressive” cause. I put progressive in inverted commas there because I think some supposedly progressive ideas are decidedly regressive. And not jumping on board every progressive bandwagon doesn’t make me right-wing.

I hear you. I'm often labeled "right-wing," and even more ludicrously "far-right," because I support traditional liberal values like free speech, limited government, and the rule of law, and reject identity politics as a new form of illiberal totalitarianism.

You're experiencing the logic of "if you're not with us on every issue, you must be against us on every issue."

Gatling

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

Well, this official survey done in the UK a few years ago is very interesting. Once you work past the feel-good generalities and get down to the brass tacks, people have concerns; both men and women and across age groups and political lines. There’s a lot of information to unpack there. But it’s a very interesting survey.

Get an odd feeling this might just get removed for some odd reason

Gatling

Invidious wrote: »

I hear you. I'm often labeled "right-wing," and even more ludicrously "far-right," because I support traditional liberal values like free speech, limited government, and the rule of law, and reject identity politics as a new form of illiberal totalitarianism.

You're experiencing the logic of "if you're not with us on every issue, you must be against us on every issue."

It's the new go to these days , the far right are on every street corner and under all of our beds ,
Don't agree your far right yada yada yada

Woman that's far right speech apparently

One eyed Jack

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

I’m also annoyed by the framing of anyone who questions anything to do with the clash of transgender rights and sex-based rights as right wing.

There isn’t any “clash of transgender rights and sex-based rights” though, it’s a contrived narrative which has absolutely no foundation in human rights legislation. The fundamental basis of human rights is to act towards our fellow human beings in the spirit of brotherhood, recognising the inherent human dignity of every person -


Article 1.

All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights. They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.


Inventing a “clash of rights” ignores the reality that it’s a Court of Law will be the ultimate arbiter in any case in terms of balancing of rights in accordance with Law, not just some contrived narrative to pretend that there is any inherent conflict in Law.

Gatling

One eyed Jack wrote: »

There isn’t any “clash of transgender rights and sex-based rights” though, it’s a contrived narrative

Of course there is it's blindingly obvious to all but a few

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

Gatling wrote: »

Get an odd feeling this might just get removed for some odd reason

Really? Lots of stuff has been posted on this thread. I saw something get deleted for “link-dumping” in the last few pages. I’m not sure what the criterion for acceptable links and supporting information is, to be honest. This is a survey from our nearest neighbour and probably the most culturally similar country to us in the world. I think it’s very relevant.

Well, if it gets deleted and anyone wants to see the survey, holla at me via PM and I’ll send it to you.