Gender Identity in Modern Ireland (Mod warnings and Threadbanned Users in OP)

Cestmoi 111

Invidious wrote: »

It sounds like this poster set out to provoke hostility, so is it really that surprising that they attracted such comments? I haven't read the threads in question, but imagine the responses had more to do with the poster being a dick than with them being targeted for being trans.

There is no denying they definitely did that and they were very fond of name calling themselves, they did themselves absolutely no favours. However it was still hard to read when long threads had nearly everyone in the replies post some really awful things and there was an awful lot of very cruel mocking of the fact that this person was transgender. I wouldn't be surprised but the attitude towards transgender folk on boards improved exponentially when the poster was banned!

CtevenSrowder

Cestmoi 111 wrote: »

https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/health/2021/02/why-using-gender-neutral-language-risks-excluding-one-minority-group-include
A recent article on gender neutral language in maternity care; I found it well reasoned and well written.

The search that I mentioned earlier for a certain term on boards.ie brought me down a bit of a rabbit hole on old posts about trans issues. Interestingly there was initial resistance against including the T in the LGB forum, it received a lot of pushback. It was largely touted by one particular trans poster who had a very aggressive posting style and seemed to pi$$ off everyone, including other trans posters. They posted in a very inflammatory way which got everyone's backs up and some of the threads were quite vicious. Looking at some of the threads from 2007 it's clear that acceptance of transpeople has come a long way. Some of the comments made to this trans poster were really horrible and I don't think they'd be said now, or if they were, they certainly would no longer be tolerated by the majority of posters or by moderators. Just a little observation.

Have you got a link to the thread?

Gender neutral is a funny phrase.

Cestmoi 111

Deleted User wrote: »

Gender neutral is a funny phrase.

Yes I suppose it is. I’m very used to hearing it now so never thought to wonder about it.

Gatling

Deleted User wrote: »

Gender neutral is a funny phrase.

Or non gender ,

What are you if you don't have a gender

Cestmoi 111

Cestmoi 111 wrote: »

Yes I suppose it is. I’m very used to hearing it now so never thought to wonder about it.

If you are gender neutral, that means you don't conform to gender. And if gender is a social construction, pangender and its many varieties aren't valid as gender doesn't exist outside the realm of make-believe.

It's very confusing.

To quote kindergarten cop:. "boys have a penis, girls have a vagina"

suicide_circus

Deleted User wrote: »

It's very confusing.

Thats because it's complete nonsense.

AllForIt

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/transgender-woman-who-assaulted-family-friend-would-find-a-prison-sentence-particularly-difficult-court-hears-40110583.html

Transgender people do themselves no favours by using their transgender status to get off lightly. No favours at all.

Interesting to note that transgender prisoners are sectioned off from the rest of the female prisoners. My God, comment sense.

Throws quite a punch does Shauna Kavanagh. She should consider going into female professional boxing. Might also assist with her anger management issues.

Gatling

AllForIt wrote: »

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/transgender-woman-who-assaulted-family-friend-would-find-a-prison-sentence-particularly-difficult-court-hears-40110583.html

Transgender people do themselves no favours by using their transgender status to get off lightly. No favours at all.

Interesting to note that transgender prisoners are sectioned off from the rest of the female prisoners. My God, comment sense.

Throws quite a punch does Shauna Kavanagh. She should consider going into female professional boxing. Might also assist with her anger management issues.

Prison is hard for most people ,

Suppression of gender now there's an excuse for violence against others ,
But your honour it was the man in me coming out , please I'm the real victim here

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

AllForIt wrote: »

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/transgender-woman-who-assaulted-family-friend-would-find-a-prison-sentence-particularly-difficult-court-hears-40110583.html

Transgender people do themselves no favours by using their transgender status to get off lightly. No favours at all.

Interesting to note that transgender prisoners are sectioned off from the rest of the female prisoners. My God, comment sense.

Throws quite a punch does Shauna Kavanagh. She should consider going into female professional boxing. Might also assist with her anger management issues.

I can’t roll my eyes back far enough in my head at this bit:

The court heard Kavanagh of Priory Hall, Whitehall Road, Kimmage Manor, Dublin, has transitioned to a woman since the assaults took place and is now known as Shauna Kavanagh. A gender recognition certificate was handed up in court.

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

But since self-ID has come in, nOtHiNg hAs hApPeNeD apparently. Going by the laws of this land, the GRC this person now holds must be taken seriously. So if a custodial sentence is handed down, it will be women’s prison for the fragrant Shauna. At least transgender women are sectioned off from the female population though I’d not feel very secure if I was one of the females, especially if this starts happening more and more.

Ms Noctor cited international research which has found transgender women, in particular, are a vulnerable group in prison.

“This would make it particularly difficult for her to serve a prison sentence,” Ms Noctor said.

Though it seems that the defence are looking to swerve a custodial sentence entirely because of the transgender status of the accused.

Kermit.de.frog

I now identify as a billionaire. So where's my money?

Gatling

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

I now identify as a billionaire. So where's my money?

That's poorphobic exclusionary language ,you can't be a billionaire because it's offensive

Gruffalux

This is long but very useful and rational. It is trans woman Deborah Hayton's recent submission to the House of Commons Women and Equalities Committee inquiry into reform of the Gender Recognition Act. Debbie is a scientist and does not want unscientific thinking used to validate the transgender experience.

My name is Dr Deborah Hayton, and I am a transgender person. I am also a science teacher and a trade union officer: I sit on the National Executive Committee of NASUWT, The Teachers’ Union. This submission, however, is written in a personal capacity because I would like to contribute my first-hand experience of living as a transgender person in UK society.

My submission consists of two parts:

Paragraphs 1 – 15. Specific responses to the questions posed in the Call for Evidence, firstly in respect of the Government response to the GRA consultation, and secondly in respect of wider issues covering transgender equality and current legislation. In brief, I am content with the law as it stands. Transgender people are well-protected, and we have the same opportunities as everyone else to live our lives and contribute to society.
Paragraphs 16 – 27. Transgenderism, and my personal experience. The assertion, trans women are women and trans men are men, is without foundation, but it is the rallying call of a movement that threatens women’s sex-based rights and the mental health of children. I argue that it has also damaged the acceptance of transgender people. Transgender rights must continue to be established in objective reality by the protected characteristic of Gender Reassignment. I strongly oppose calls to re-frame our rights in terms of identity by, for example, a proposed protected characteristic of gender identity. Gender identity cannot be defined without recourse to circular reasoning and sexist stereotypes. It would move the basis of our rights from facts to feelings that can neither be proved nor falsified.
I ask the committee to challenge the government in three areas:

to improve access to transgender health services (paragraph 14);
to provide safe-and-secure mixed-sex provision alongside existing separate-sex services (paragraphs 14 and 26) and
to protect everyone’s right to express themselves in ways more typical of the other sex or of neither sex (paragraphs 15 and 27).
The Government’s response to the GRA consultation
The Government’s proposed changes will make the process kinder and more straightforward. Many government services, for example passport applications, are already online. Moving the Gender Recognition Certificate (GRC) application process online will make it easier to cross reference the notes, check for errors and omissions before submission, and normalise the process as a government service.
An administration fee should be retained so that service users (with the means to do so) contribute to the cost of the service. This normalises the process alongside other government services, for example applications for passports and driving licences.
The diagnosis of gender dysphoria must be retained. A GRC creates an anomaly where the applicant’s legal sex differs from their biological sex. Such a radical step should be based on objective evidence.
The two-year rule for “living in an acquired gender” should be replaced with a period of reflection. Living “as a woman” or “as a man” can only be assessed subjectively against socially constructed expectations. The current process sets a very low test: a change of name and the use of that name on, for example, employment records and utility bills. I suggest a period of reflection of six months from the date of application to the issue of a GRC.
The spousal consent provision protects the spouse from a unilateral change to a mutual contract between two people. It should be retained. If the spouse does not want to change the terms of their marriage from an opposite-sex marriage to a same-sex marriage, the current law allows the applicant to be granted an interim gender recognition certificate that either party can use to dissolve the marriage.
The age limit must not be lowered from 18 years. I am relieved that I did not suffer the pressure to decide my legal sex at such a young age.
The changes proposed by Government will make the process simpler and less bureaucratic. Online GRC applications would follow the approach we are accustomed to using for other government services and normalise the process. Online applications can be checked for errors and omissions in real time, copies can be saved securely without generating physical paperwork.
I think that “living in role” should be replaced by a period of reflection. Otherwise, I am content with the Government’s proposals following the GRA consultation.
The Scottish Government’s proposals are unsatisfactory because they remove the need for objective evidence in the form of a medical diagnosis of gender dysphoria. That creates opportunity for misuse and risks the credibility of the process.
Wider issues concerning transgender equality and current legislation.

I suggest that the low rate of GRC applications arises because transgender people do not need a GRC to live our lives in UK society. Furthermore, we do not need a GRC to change our passports and other descriptive documents; I therefore chose not to apply for one. My birth certificate still defines me as male, but that is a statement of fact: I am male. As a legal male I cannot assert any right to use female services, but I would not do that in any case. I have no wish to impinge on the rights of women, another protected group.
The interplay between the Gender Recognition Act 2004 (GRA) and the Equality Act 2010 (EA) is complicated because they use the term “transsexualism” differently. The GRA conflated it with gender dysphoria (Para 25(1)) while the EA defined a transsexual person as anyone who has the protected characteristic of Gender Reassignment (Para 7(2)). Gender Reassignment is applied more generally:
“A person has the protected characteristic of gender reassignment if the person is proposing to undergo, is undergoing or has undergone a process (or part of a process) for the purpose of reassigning the person’s sex by changing physiological or other attributes of sex.”

Equality Act 2010, Para 7(1)
The Equality and Human Rights Commission (EHRC) interpreted that to include purely social changes. Protections established in the GRA for those with a diagnosable medical condition were applied more widely by the EA according to how people lived their lives: “a personal process rather than a medical one” (EHRC).

The provisions for single-sex services and separate-sex services are unclear in the EA because it does not distinguish adequately between biological sex (as defined by chromosomes, gonads and sex characteristics observed at birth), legal sex (as might be modified by a gender recognition certificate), and someone’s preferred gender. Clarification is needed to restore confidence in the system. My personal view is that single-sex and separate-sex service providers must be able to demarcate their services by biological sex.
The EA adequately protects people who transition to the opposite gender.
Access to Gender Identity Clinics must be improved as a matter of urgency. For example, Charing Cross Gender Identity Clinic is currently booking first appointments for people who have waited 33 to 36 months. They no longer give estimated wait times to current referrals. For people suffering acute gender dysphoria, medical and psychological support is a far more pressing issue that access to a GRC. More generally, where support services are usually offered on a separate-sex basis, e.g., sexual violence services, safe-and-secure mixed-sex provision should be offered alongside and in addition to separate-sex provision. Currently, single-sex provision has often been replaced by mixed-sex provision to accommodate those who identify with the other sex. Additional mixed-sex provision would serve everyone who did not wish to share single-sex facilities with their own sex, including those who identity as non-binary or gender-neutral.
The EA does not adequately protect gender non-conforming people who may describe themselves as non-binary or gender-neutral. I suggest that Statutory Guidance should make it clear that it is not permitted to treat someone less favourably on account of their gender expression, if they express themselves in a way more typical of the opposite sex, or of neither sex. That protection should be there for everyone to use, under the protected characteristic of sex.
Transgenderism, and my personal experience.
Transgender people are widely understood to have a gender identity that conflicts with the sex that was “assigned to them at birth”. Gender identity was defined in the Yogyakarta Principles:
“Gender identity is understood to refer to each person’s deeply felt internal and individual experience of gender, which may or may not correspond with the sex assigned at birth, including the personal sense of the body (which may involve, if freely chosen, modification of bodily appearance or function by medical, surgical or other means) and other expressions of gender, including dress, speech and mannerisms.”

Introduction to the Yogyakarta Principles
This understanding is without foundation in objective reality. Sex is not “assigned at birth”, it is observed and recorded according to clear objective criteria that take account of various intersex conditions that occur within each sex class. Gender identity is unprovable and unfalsifiable, and the Yogyakarta definition depended on circular reasoning and sexist stereotypes. Despite the adoption of this definition by other jurisdictions, for example the state of Massachusetts, this is an unsatisfactory basis for any law and calls to introduce such legislation in the UK must be resisted.
The assertion “trans women are women (and trans men are men)” is based on the concept of gender identity. Because gender identity is unprovable and unfalsifiable, this assertion cannot be supported by argument and dissenting voices are often condemned as bigots and transphobes. However, trans women are – by definition – biological males while women are biological females. Male people are distinct from female people, and therefore trans women are not women. Indeed, there is no property that all trans women share with women that they do not share with men.
It would be therefore unwise and unsafe to build society on the untruth that transwomen are women. Women have established boundaries, and protected their spaces, by biological sex for good reasons, not least safety. It is naïve and potentially dangerous to allow any male person access because they “identify as a woman”.
The concept of gender identity has had a devastating impact on children. Young people dissatisfied with their bodies have been led to believe that they can choose their sex. Some are now trying to build their lives on this lie, with disastrousconsequences on their mental health. Research and reporting of youngsters who have rejected these ideas has been attacked by transgender activists with threats, bullying and harassment.
Because gender identity is unprovable and unfalsifiable, the attempt to reframe transgender rights in terms of gender identity has been progressed by assertion rather than argument. That has damaged the trust and confidence that transgender people rely on to live our lives.
My own experience of being transgender has developed over the past ten years as I came out and transitioned socially, medically, and surgically. Initially I believed what I had been told: that I was some sort of woman. That provided a trivial explanation for my gender dysphoria, but it was a statement of belief. Unsurprisingly I was unable to construct an argument to support my claim to be a woman that would convince me, let alone anyone else. That caused me significant distress.
I finally found peace with myself when I reconciled myself to my sex and accepted that I did not need to assert a gender identity to break social gender norms.
My current understanding of myself is a biological male who breaks those social gender norms to be comfortable in my body and with how I relate to society. I am content because it is self-evident to me and others, and it requires no female gender identity. The protected characteristic of Gender Reassignment protects me from harassment and discrimination, while I could still use my diagnosis of gender dysphoria to access a GRC, should I wish to apply for one.
However, this understanding gives me no right to be treated by the law and by society in the same way as a woman, whenever the sexes are served differently.
I therefore ask the Committee to press the Government to consider ways in which safe-and-secure mixed-sex services and provision can be added alongside current provision that is sex-segregated. The benefits would extend to anyone who did not want to share communal facilities with their own sex. As well as transgender people this could include parents with young children of the opposite sex and carers of vulnerable adults of the opposite sex.
I would also like the Committee to press the government to improve legislation to protect gender non-conforming people, however they may choose to identify, by protecting their right to express themselves in ways more typical of the other sex or neither sex. That right should also be universal.
I would be pleased to offer further evidence to the Committee either in writing or in person.

Debbie Hayton

November 2020

Gatling

That's a great post ^

Imagine using science before tweets

One eyed Jack

Gruffalux wrote: »

This is long but very useful and rational. It is trans woman Deborah Hayton's recent submission to the House of Commons Women and Equalities Committee inquiry into reform of the Gender Recognition Act. Debbie is a scientist and does not want unscientific thinking used to validate the transgender experience.

They’re not, and have never been a scientist? They are, and always have been, a physics teacher. For someone who doesn’t want unscientific thinking influencing the transgender experience, they should immediately withdraw their submission to the Commission because it is woefully unscientific and out of date. It’s nothing more than political posturing,

I do wonder what could have happened to Debbie Hayton in the last 5 years since they gave this interview that they appear to have had a complete turnaround in their attitude -

This Is What It's Like Being A Transgender Teacher In Britain

There is plenty of evidence to suggest that Debbie Hayton was not experiencing gender dysphoria and has regrets about their decision to transition. According to their own statements which are in the public domain, they didn’t meet the criteria to be diagnosed with gender dysphoria. The unfortunate thing is that it’s impossible to know for certain whether they were being dishonest with themselves then, and whether they were being dishonest with other people, when they said -


Hayton told us it was not just about policy, but society as well.

“We do have equalities policies in law, but those policies are frequently not followed, because people fear them," she said. "We’re certainly a generation behind on trans issues – now, how to change that? Young people today are phenomenal, the children I work with are phenomenal, they’re increasingly less willing to accept the gender binary.

“Young people today are talking to young trans people, they want the freedom to express themselves. And that’s I just hope a generational change that takes place as we move on. But how to actually accelerate that, I don’t really know. There’s no magic wand.”

In the end, Hayton cannot avoid comparing her situation to that of Lucy Meadows, and considering the fine lines trans teachers operate under.

“One bit of imagery I was always aware of was a big ring of dominoes, toppling: If one thing goes over, the whole thing crashes,” she said. “Lucy Meadows, it took one parent going to a local newspaper to cause that. One colleague in school can make it very difficult for you.

"One situation going bad out of many, although the chances are small of each one, together it can be quite sizable. The moment one person makes a fuss, the majority of people will probably side with the trans teacher, but the more vociferous minority that can cluster around the person who seeded the complaint can make life very difficult.”


Because they’re sure as hell being dishonest with themselves now, and being dishonest with other people -


All you need to know about anti-trans activist Debbie Hayton


This, btw, is Debbie Hayton -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DPmdrdwX_OY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ClMR4jkIG_o

By all appearances a woman, albeit a dishonest woman. That’s what I’d be more concerned about than their sex or gender or anything else - their character, not their characteristics, is how anyone should be judged, and by that standard, Debbie Hayton is not someone I would trust to have my back.

Gatling

One eyed Jack wrote: »

They’re not, and have never been a scientist?


By all appearances a woman, albeit a dishonest woman.

So trans person makes great points around the discussion of trans identity ,
Now the trans woman is being labelled anti trans by man .

One eyed Jack

Gatling wrote: »

So trans person makes great points around the discussion of trans identity ,
Now the trans woman is being labelled anti trans by man .

Thought you didn’t do identity politics?

Whether I or Debbie Hayton is a man or a woman is of absolutely no consequence when what I am judging Debbie on is their character, not their characteristics. I didn’t label Debbie Hayton anti-trans either btw, i said I wouldn’t trust them to have my back. They’re like the Paddy Manning of the marriage equality referendum - a useful idiot.

Gruffalux

Sorry, my mistake when I said ''scientist'' - it was a shorthand for their general education, experience and occupation. Debbie is a science teacher who studied science in University and teaches science in secondary school. Debbie has a BSc in Astronomy and Astrophysics from Newcastle University (1989), a PhD in Physics from Newcastle University (1992), studied and taught Physics at the University of Birmingham 1995-1996, was a science research associate at Newcastle University 1992-1995, briefly a research fellow at the School of Engineering, University of Warwick in 1995, Physics teacher in Handsworth Grammar 1196 - 2002, and also Co-ordinator of the CASE (Cognitive Accelerations through Science Education) Programme, led the Physics department, and co-ordinated Science within the King Henry VIII School 2008 - 2016, and is presently still employed as School Timetabler at that school.

I would say Debbie is what one might call properly science-y.
Definition of Scientist - a person learned in science and especially natural science : a scientific investigator (Merriam Webster); A scientist is someone who has studied science and whose job is to teach or do research in science. (Collins Dictionary); A person who is studying or has expert knowledge of one or more of the natural or physical sciences. (Lexico.com).

Gatling

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Thought you didn’t do identity politics?

I don't , but I do enjoy when a person claiming trans inclusive is complaining about a trans woman.

As I said several times some people want it every which way

Vic_08

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Thought you didn’t do identity politics?

No, obviously it was just highlighting the utterly illogical drivel and laughable hypocrisy of your makey-upey identity politics.

I guess Hayton is another person you'd be comfortable to tell to piss off at your imaginary womens' race sign-in booth.

One eyed Jack wrote: »

a useful idiot.

Ah, yes. Calling people names, showing your intellectual superiority there for sure Jack.

CtevenSrowder

One eyed Jack wrote: »

They’re not, and have never been a scientist? They are, and always have been, a physics teacher.

Gruffalux wrote: »

Sorry, my mistake when I said ''scientist'' - it was a shorthand for their general education, experience and occupation. Debbie is a science teacher who studied science in University and teaches science in secondary school. Debbie has a BSc in Astronomy and Astrophysics from Newcastle University (1989), a PhD in Physics from Newcastle University (1992), studied and taught Physics at the University of Birmingham 1995-1996, was a science research associate at Newcastle University 1992-1995, briefly a research fellow at the School of Engineering, University of Warwick in 1995, Physics teacher in Handsworth Grammar 1196 - 2002, and also Co-ordinator of the CASE (Cognitive Accelerations through Science Education) Programme, led the Physics department, and co-ordinated Science within the King Henry VIII School 2008 - 2016, and is presently still employed as School Timetabler at that school.

I would say Debbie is what one might call properly science-y.
Definition of Scientist - a person learned in science and especially natural science : a scientific investigator (Merriam Webster); A scientist is someone who has studied science and whose job is to teach or do research in science. (Collins Dictionary); A person who is studying or has expert knowledge of one or more of the natural or physical sciences. (Lexico.com).

So basically OEJ is completely wrong here.

One eyed Jack

Gruffalux wrote: »

Sorry, my mistake when I said ''scientist'' - it was a shorthand for their general education, experience and occupation. Debbie is a science teacher who studied science in University and teaches science in secondary school.

...

I would say Debbie is what one might call properly science-y.

It wasn’t a mistake, it was an attempt to appeal to authority in an area where their educational and academic qualifications are irrelevant. I’m not saying you can’t regard them as a scientist, work away, I’m saying they’re not a scientist because I wouldn’t regard them as a scientist. I have similar educational, academic and professional qualifications, and I wouldn’t refer to myself as a scientist, nor would I expect anyone to refer to me as a scientist. There are some people in my profession who refer to themselves as scientists, and it’s been a contentious issue for a number of years whether scientist, engineer or architect is the correct term. In reality I don’t care for titles, but when someone tries to attempt an appeal to authority in an attempt to lend weight to their opinions, it’s no different than identity politics.

Gatling wrote: »

I don't , but I do enjoy when a person claiming trans inclusive is complaining about a trans woman.

As I said several times some people want it every which way

You’re definitely not referring to me then, cool.

CtevenSrowder wrote: »

So basically OEJ is completely wrong here.

No, OEJ is not completely wrong here.

Gremlinertia

There needs to be less bickering among yourselves here please

Gatling

One eyed Jack wrote: »

I’m not saying you can’t regard them as a scientist, work away, I’m saying they’re not a scientist because I wouldn’t regard them as a scientist.

So basically they are highly qualified professional transwoman who lives as a woman so not only are they highly intelligent they have real experience being trans and living in a Transworld.

But that's somebody has issues with

ingalway

One eyed Jack wrote: »

By all appearances a woman, albeit a dishonest woman. That’s what I’d be more concerned about than their sex or gender or anything else - their character, not their characteristics, is how anyone should be judged, and by that standard, Debbie Hayton is not someone I would trust to have my back.

When is a trans woman not a trans woman? When she is the wrong kind of trans woman, like Debbie is deemed to be.

Unlike many trans women Debbie has walked the walk. I can't imagine how much courage is needed to stand up in a classroom as a trans woman, I'd say that is a very tough gig. Debbie has also gone through a medical transition, but it the ladies with their beards and a penis who are the real shero's these days.

Who even needs a gender identity certificate, let alone a medical transition, it's a good character certificate that is really needed, issued by OeJ.

Cestmoi 111

AllForIt wrote: »

Throws quite a punch does Shauna Kavanagh.

See this is what I don’t get. Yes women can be lairy, violent and troublesome, but it would be incredibly unusual for an unarmed woman to cause all the damage that Kavanagh did. How come knocking a man over and fracturing his skull didn’t trigger Kavanagh’s gender dysphoria? How come when male athletes tower over women and knock them over like someone swatting flies, or thunder down the hurdle track leaving all the girls in their wake, it doesn’t trigger their gender dysphoria? Same question for trans identified females who give birth and breastfeed their babies.
I saw a tweet the other day admonishing the American Health Association because their advice notice highlighting why pregnant women should get the flu jab triggered a trans identified males “pregnancy dysphoria”. How come gender dysphoria is so selective?

ingalway

Cestmoi 111 wrote: »

See this is what I don’t get. Yes women can be lairy, violent and troublesome, but it would be incredibly unusual for an unarmed woman to cause all the damage that Kavanagh did. How come knocking a man over and fracturing his skull didn’t trigger Kavanagh’s gender dysphoria? How come when male athletes tower over women and knock them over like someone swatting flies, or thunder down the hurdle track leaving all the girls in their wake, it doesn’t trigger their gender dysphoria? Same question for trans identified females who give birth and breastfeed their babies.
I saw a tweet the other day admonishing the American Health Association because their advice notice highlighting why pregnant women should get the flu jab triggered a trans identified males “pregnancy dysphoria”. How come gender dysphoria is so selective?

If you replace 'dysphoria' with 'narcissism' or 'entitlement' it makes much more sense.

One eyed Jack

ingalway wrote: »

When is a trans woman not a trans woman? When she is the wrong kind of trans woman, like Debbie is deemed to be.

Unlike many trans women Debbie has walked the walk. I can't imagine how much courage is needed to stand up in a classroom as a trans woman, I'd say that is a very tough gig. Debbie has also gone through a medical transition, but it the ladies with their beards and a penis who are the real shero's these days.

Who even needs a gender identity certificate, let alone a medical transition, it's a good character certificate that is really needed, issued by OeJ.

I already explained that I don’t use the terms’trans woman’ or ‘trans man’, so good, bad or indifferent, the concept just doesn’t exist as far as I’m concerned - there’s no wrong or right kind of person based upon their characteristics either, it’s their character I said people should be judged on.

There are a number of reasons why anyone might need a gender recognition certificate, issued by the Minister for Social Protection. Getting a character reference isn’t really an issue, and it’s not issued by any specific authority, though character references tend to carry weight in Court too.

Cestmoi 111

ingalway wrote: »

If you replace 'dysphoria' with 'narcissism' or 'entitlement' it makes much more sense.

I need the hmmm thinking face emoji.

Gremlinertia

Ooh that's interesting, must look into dysphoria triggering, unaware of it as a defence or in general really.. The burden of proof regarding a certificate seems to vary wildly too, but i can't exactly get facts on that