Gender Identity in Modern Ireland (Mod warnings and Threadbanned Users in OP)

CtevenSrowder

Bannasidhe wrote: »

I'm actually not going to dignify your scaremongering and frankly transphobic question framed as it is tbh.

Any known sex offender - and there are cis female sex offenders by the way, and lesbian sex offenders - would not be welcome.
It has zero to do with their gender.

I see you are giving yourself another get out of jail free card. The point is they are male and in prison with females. Some of those males may be in prison for sex crimes committed on females. There is nothing transphobic about the question at all.

Funny how they won't be welcome in your space but you've seemingly no issue with such males being foistered upon women in prison.

What was all that about pulling up ladders earlier, as long as your alright jack!

Cestmoi 111

TomTomTim wrote: »

What the **** is piv sex? I'm actually somewhat impressed that these people manage to make up so many new words, even if it's impossible to follow.

Peen in vageen

Gruffalux

CtevenSrowder wrote: »

So what, no abortion debates?

Or cervical cancer issues. Or special needs services for kids. Or male circumcision issues. Bloody heck. Twould be a long list.

But for the posters convenience Dr Thomas Steensma, developer of the Dutch protocol, has last week expressed his anxiety about its implementation. He should probably know.

Bannasidhe

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Abortion is a private matter between patient and Dr - why does it need to be debated publicly?

Why debate anything?

Abortion may be a private matter but the legalities aren't private.

CtevenSrowder

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Abortion is a private matter between patient and Dr - why does it need to be debated publicly?

Well, abortion was virtually illegal in this country only 3 years ago.. Public debate around the issue was essential to undoing that. There have been cases in South American countries were 13 year olds have become pregnant though rape and have been unable to receive abortions. But sure no public discussion required..right?

Gruffalux

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Why debate anything?

Abortion may be a private matter but the legalities aren't private.

Or the availability or otherwise. Which is what I ask re puberty blockers and cross sex hormones for minors.

mohawk

Bannasidhe wrote: »

I note that you completely missed the point there which is the language used by transphobes is the exact same language used by homophobes just tweaked slightly.
So you really should direct your questions to the transphobes and ask them why they are making the same "points".

See, those of us who were there for the fight for equality remember the great "lesbians in women's toilets" scares, and the "children can't possible know if they are homosexual" pronouncements. It's the same deja poo now as it was then.

I am not old enough to remember any such nonsense as lesbians and toilets.

What I will say is that the arguments against children are not the same. Your right about children not ‘growing out of sexuality’. The analogy to children experiencing gender Dysphoria is not the disingenuous. Any studies on children who had gender Dysphoria show that the vast majority of them were okay with their natal sex post puberty under a watchful waiting approach. Depending on the study something like 20% still had Gender Dysphoria ( this is the group that can benefit from transition.). This is why many posters on this thread question the puberty blockers approach. The side and physical effects of the medical route are very, very serious and should not be taken lightly.
Now to address the affirmative approach in relation to teenagers where the the first onset on gender Dysphoria happens during teenage years. Well there is no scientific research to show if this is the best approach.

Being Gay and being Trans are not the same. You don’t need puberty blockers or hormones and possibly major surgery to be gay or lesbian. However, children and teenagers who are trans are quite often treated in a medical context. So no it’s not Deja Vu or Poo.

GreeBo

Cestmoi 111 wrote: »

Please listen to transpeople GreeBo

https://mobile.twitter.com/an_aria_blooms/status/1352363965309984769

https://mobile.twitter.com/maybefrommoon/status/1084932085263941632

https://mobile.twitter.com/zesyra/status/1276998376366710784

Yeah, I'm gonna go ahead and not take *any* advice from someone who posts such as the below:

"Trans women are biologically female, and those of us with dicks are even more biologically female and if you wanna argue you are biologically a trash bag"

"In fact I'm not just a lesbian that *also* likes dick, I'm a lesbian *because* I LOVE dick! Bite on that Terfs! Die and go to hell!"

The most honest part of their profile is where they provide their CashApp handle, for donations.:rolleyes:

biko

You don't get to come here and make centuries of lesbian culture all about "attraction to women".
Just no.

How strange when one of the oldest sexualities change so drastically.

Cestmoi 111

GreeBo wrote: »

Yeah, I'm gonna go ahead and not take *any* advice from someone who posts such as the below:

"Trans women are biologically female, and those of us with dicks are even more biologically female and if you wanna argue you are biologically a trash bag"

"In fact I'm not just a lesbian that *also* likes dick, I'm a lesbian *because* I LOVE dick! Bite on that Terfs! Die and go to hell!"

The most honest part of their profile is where they provide their CashApp handle, for donations.:rolleyes:

biko wrote: »

How strange when one of the oldest sexualities change so drastically.

Sounds like you both need to EDUCATE YOURSELVES.

I did and I learnt a lot (not the kind of stuff that’s demanded when we’re told to educate ourselves however!).

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

Gentlemanne wrote: »

I haven't read a few pages, apologies, I might get to them tomorrow, but I find it really disappointing that the phrase "Trans Identified Males" is allowed here.

It's a very particular phrase and acronym used by some very unsavoury types to paint women who are trans as men, mock them for being "Tim", and is generally just another pointless obfuscation of trans woman to transwoman... And so on

Do ye realise that men who are trans exist?

If this thread banned that phrase but allowed TERF to be used (and TERF is allowed, which a mod has confirmed), that would show indisputable partiality on the part of the moderation team. But it wouldn’t at all surprise me if it happens, that TiM is banned.

I don’t use TiM personally but what about it offends you?

LLMMLL

GreeBo wrote: »

So in your mind can someone freely accept gay people but also not accept trans people? In my mind (and the minds of many others it would appear) gay and trans are as related as ham and eggs, they might often go together, but they are not related in any way.

An example of how they are different would be the rates of detransition compared to the rates of gay people reverting to being straight.

Actually detransition is interesting. Just because people can be unsure of their gender identity doesn't mean trans people don't exist.

Equally there are people who are unsure of their sexuality and who DO "revert" to straight.

There is actually a poster who posted on this thread (not a fan of trans rights) who I've seen on other threads saying he is straight but when younger he hung out with gay people and one or more of them (can't remember the story exactly) convinced him he was gay but he later realised he was straight and.confused. I've recently seen this poster identify as being bi not straight now.

I don't think detransition really proves anything about trans people. Any more than sexuality confusion says anything about gay people.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

Gentlemanne wrote: »

That's not true, most posters will say "they" for people they don't consider female enough when it's clear that said person goes by she/her. (But they dislike using "they' pronouns in other situations, hmm)

There's plenty of use of the term, probably even more in the pages I've yet to read. In fact I would be completely unsurprised if you had used that term or had "thanked" posts that has used it

Well, personally the only people I consider females are... females. And I fail to see why that would be a problem if - as we are always being told - nobody is conflating sex and gender. Why WOULD one be expected to consider a male to be a female?

LLMMLL

GreeBo wrote: »

Is this like earlier where you said that its impossible that a man who tell us he is a man couldn't be lying?

Nothing is impossible, for example you could be a transphobe who just happens to post in defence of trans people, right?

I have no idea what you're talking about. I don't believe I said what you claim I said so....

LLMMLL

Cestmoi 111 wrote: »

Sounds like you both need to EDUCATE YOURSELVES.

I did and I learnt a lot (not the kind of stuff that’s demanded when we’re told to educate ourselves however!).

It's the kind of stuff you learn about black people by hanging out with the KKK. Not exactly neutral.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

Gruffalux wrote: »

It is demonsteably true that there is no harm to a child's health if they are gay. I do not defend results of ugly homophobia etc. Just I state the empirical fact that there is zero harm to a child's body as a result of being homosexual.

You should have an opinion on puberty blockers and cross sex hormones for minors as you tacitly support it by not questioning it.
You contribute to supporting the use of such by calling out those who question it as phobic.

Doctors have done many things over long years legally to patients including sterilisation of gay people, symphysiotomy, improper pregnancy practices, not diagnosing people correctly, etc. Saying effectively "Doctor knows best" is a total cop out.
You tacitly support and enable this affirmation practise on minors - for example you support those who call people who are very worried about it bigots etc . It is a FUNDAMENTAL part of the picture.

You have to think deeply about it, about the reality of it, and see the future ramifications of chemically or surgically treating a child who cannot properly consent to sterility and impotence, and you cannot hand wave it away with doctor knows best platitudes.

Yup, anyone who waves around the word ‘bigot’ at people who questions these things should be expected to give on opinion on the topic. Otherwise they are calling people epithets from an uneducated or cowardly position.

Cestmoi 111

LLMMLL wrote: »

Actually detransition is interesting. Just because people can be unsure of their gender identity doesn't mean trans people don't exist.

Equally there are people who are unsure of their sexuality and who DO "revert" to straight.

There is actually a poster who posted on this thread (not a fan of trans rights) who I've seen on other threads saying he is straight but when younger he hung out with gay people and one or more of them (can't remember the story exactly) convinced him he was gay but he later realised he was straight and.confused. I've recently seen this poster identify as being bi not straight now.

I don't think detransition really proves anything about trans people. Any more than sexuality confusion says anything about gay people.

Going from gay to straight to bi wouldn’t have any physical consequences for the person. Unfortunately the same cannot be said for a trans person who has medically transitioned in any way.

Cestmoi 111

LLMMLL wrote: »

It's the kind of stuff you learn about black people by hanging out with the KKK. Not exactly neutral.

No, the exact opposite. My eyes were truly opened by listening to trans people.

LLMMLL

Cestmoi 111 wrote: »

No, the exact opposite. My eyes were truly opened by listening to trans people.

I know a lot of trans people and never hear.about the paraphilia nonsense you peddle. You find what you go looking for. I don't believe for a second you went looking for trans spaces and this is all you could find. You clearly ignore any trans space that doesn't fit your need to portray trans people as fetishists.

How many trans people do you actually know?

Eric Cartman

Steve Nolan wrote: »

I am Super Straight which means I am only attracted to the opposite sex. I have no issue with transwomen but I am not attracted to them.

I saw that online, id align with the ideology and would never go near a trans woman , but that troll movement is getting some fierce outrage.
Superphobia is well and truly alive online :pac:

LLMMLL

Cestmoi 111 wrote: »

Going from gay to straight to bi wouldn’t have any physical consequences for the person. Unfortunately the same cannot be said for a trans person who has medically transitioned in any way.

I'm still waiting for the flood of unhappy detransitioners I'm supposed to be hearing from.

CtevenSrowder

LLMMLL wrote: »

I'm still waiting for the flood of unhappy detransitioners I'm supposed to be hearing from.

LLMMLL has me blocked after I gave them an intellectual pasting on another thread, but just so others can see, detransitioners are just as real as trans-people are.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/w3ct0hyx

https://quillette.com/2020/01/02/the-ranks-of-gender-detransitioners-are-growing-we-need-to-understand-why/ (moan about the source all you want I don't care)

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/the-detransitioners-what-happens-when-trans-men-want-to-be-women-again-fd22b7jhs Maybe you've access

Gruffalux

Detransitioners, of which there are many, often irreversibly damaged by medical procedures, are just more acceptable collateral damage to some people.

Bannasidhe

mohawk wrote: »

I am not old enough to remember any such nonsense as lesbians and toilets.

What I will say is that the arguments against children are not the same. Your right about children not ‘growing out of sexuality’. The analogy to children experiencing gender Dysphoria is not the disingenuous. Any studies on children who had gender Dysphoria show that the vast majority of them were okay with their natal sex post puberty under a watchful waiting approach. Depending on the study something like 20% still had Gender Dysphoria ( this is the group that can benefit from transition.). This is why many posters on this thread question the puberty blockers approach. The side and physical effects of the medical route are very, very serious and should not be taken lightly.
Now to address the affirmative approach in relation to teenagers where the the first onset on gender Dysphoria happens during teenage years. Well there is no scientific research to show if this is the best approach.

Being Gay and being Trans are not the same. You don’t need puberty blockers or hormones and possibly major surgery to be gay or lesbian. However, children and teenagers who are trans are quite often treated in a medical context. So no it’s not Deja Vu or Poo.

How a trans child may or may not cope with puberty and/or gender dysphoria can and does vary between individuals - as does indeed being about to cope with being homosexual. There is no cut and dried one size fits all so I, for one, believe the people best placed to assess each individual are those health care specialists caring for the individual.
I do not think anonymous posters lacking medical experience waving an ideological pitchfork are qualified.

Puberty blockers are not exclusively used for children diagnosed with gender dysphoria, they are used for other reasons as well but that does fit the narrative here. Plus when they are prescribed (and a prescription is needed), nor is it a given that they will be prescribed, for a child diagnosed with gender dysphoria the purpose is to buy time for that child to assess their gender identification - again, something that is lost in the noise and faux horror of the ermhagawd wait til you hear what they do to little willies/vaginas posted here.
I assume the outraged are also virulently against puberty blockers being used on children experiencing early on-set puberty but forgot to mention that.
Just as they forgot to mention there are relatively few studies on the long term effects and many of those studies demonstrate the are reasonably save and can and do promote psychological well-being - however they can impact on successful vaginoplasty surgery in later life.

I notice in your efforts to shoehorn puberty blockers into your response to me (despite I clearly saying I am neither for nor against and believe it is best left to medical professionals) that you ignored the point I actually made - as have others - is that the language used by transphobes is the same language used by homophobes to justify their bigotry so perhaps those who insist Gay and Trans have nothing to do with each other at all at all at all should ask the transphobes why the employ the same language as the homophobes.

So yes, what I wrote about is deja poo. What you responded had nothing to do with the post where I called it deja poo.

LLMMLL

Gruffalux wrote: »

Detransitioners, of which there are many, often irreversibly damaged by medical procedures, are just more acceptable collateral damage to some people.

I don't recognize this concept of collateral damage. I'ts silly PR. One could equally claim that you view children who benefit from puberty blockers as collateral damage.

I'd like to think you don't actually view children as objects in a war though. Going by your above post I.may be wrong on that.

Cestmoi 111

Gentlemanne wrote: »

The woman behind the channel "badgeOfShame", a classic public interview YouTube series, formally known as JoeGoes, just released a YouTube video after being gone for years

https://youtu.be/cGgVoqr78gk

It's a very lovely video!

LLMMLL wrote: »

Very nice. Thanks for sharing.

LLMMLL wrote: »

I know a lot of trans people and never hear.about the paraphilia nonsense you peddle. You find what you go looking for. I don't believe for a second you went looking for trans spaces and this is all you could find. You clearly ignore any trans space that doesn't fit your need to portray trans people as fetishists.

How many trans people do you actually know?

I think it’s a matter of interpretation. Take the video linked above, you and Gentlemanne found it lovely and it (I’m guessing) was posted in this thread to show a trans person in a positive light.
However I saw the person as a caricature of a woman; found it hard to believe someone as brash and laddish as Joe telling us he actually always felt like a woman; found it offensive and reductive that he equated being a woman to putting on a dress, a wig, and makeup; and don’t get me started on the “joke” he made directly to a young woman that he wanted to keep the sunburnt peelings of her skin to make a woman suit.
I have a very different interpretation about that “lovely” video. And about lots of other things the trans community support

LLMMLL

Cestmoi 111 wrote: »

I think it’s a matter of interpretation. Take the video linked above, you and Gentlemanne found it lovely and it (I’m guessing) was posted in this thread to show a trans person in a positive light.
However I saw the person as a caricature of a woman; found it hard to believe someone as brash and laddish as Joe telling us he actually always felt like a woman; found it offensive and reductive that he equated being a woman to putting on a dress, a wig, and makeup; and don’t get me started on the “joke” he made directly to a young woman that he wanted to keep the sunburnt peelings of her skin to make a woman suit.
I have a very different interpretation about that “lovely” video. And about lots of other things the trans community support

You're obviously not familiar with her previous work if you took that joke seriously.

I see cis women every day of the week that could be described as caricatures of women due to the (in many cases surgical) enhancement of stereotypical femijine featureS.

I also hear cis women all the time refer to certain behaviours and associate them with their own feelings of femininity. In fact a cis woman I know recently told how she had a "girly" night by getting all dressed up for a zoom call in lockdown. Do you have an issue with cis women saying things like this?

You still haven't answered how many trans women you actually know. I think we can safely conclude the answer is ZERO.

Bannasidhe

LLMMLL wrote: »

I don't recognize this concept of collateral damage. I'ts silly PR. One could equally claim that you view children who benefit from puberty blockers as collateral damage.

I'd like to think you don't actually view children as objects in a war though. Going by your above post I.may be wrong on that.

Given this poster insists no homosexual child ever comes to any harm thereby completely disregarding the suicide rates among young gay people due to homophobic families/cultures, not to mention the lingering mental issues caused by internalised homophobia, I am beginning to suspect children are just objects in their ideological war.

Bannasidhe

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Given this poster insists no homosexual child ever comes to any harm thereby completely disregarding the suicide rates among young gay people due to homophobic families/cultures, not to mention the lingering mental issues caused by internalised homophobia, I am beginning to suspect children are just objects in their ideological war.

Harm caused by mental issues or bullying due to someone's sexuality are not the same as the physical harm caused by puberty blockers/medical intervention to change the body of a child.

This was the point.

You knew this. You are being disingenuous.

Gatling

CtevenSrowder wrote: »

LLMMLL has me blocked after I gave them an intellectual pasting on another thread, but just so others can see, detransitioners are just as real as trans-people are.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/w3ct0hyx

https://quillette.com/2020/01/02/the-ranks-of-gender-detransitioners-are-growing-we-need-to-understand-why/ (moan about the source all you want I don't care)

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/the-detransitioners-what-happens-when-trans-men-want-to-be-women-again-fd22b7jhs Maybe you've access

It's something that's that's previously Been denied that people who transition also revert to their original gender , people want proof or exact number and who provides them numbers will be claimed to be something it's not ,

Were told it's not to be linked to mental health but it if anorexia and bulliumia are considered mental health illness or related illnesses so should kids who have been told they are trans because they feel different rather than the whole I feel different sometimes "that's ok your Trans" we highly recommend that you start transitioning socially and physically we will prescribe puberty blocker's and you will feel better than we will push for major surgery because we feel that will make you happy and call it positive affirmation .
Rather than everyone standing back and letting the child or children to grow and mature at their own individual ways .
If they feel different that's nothing to worry about ,it doesn't mean it's time for social and medical experiments on a child