Gender Identity in Modern Ireland (Mod warnings and Threadbanned Users in OP)

CtevenSrowder

LLMMLL wrote: »

For others they do not. So certain aspects of biology cannot be used to identify who is a woman and who is a man.

haha oh dear! We're back to square one I see, not that we ever left it in the first place I guess.

Cestmoi 111

LLMMLL wrote: »

More on Bliss Female's "rogues gallery" of trans writers transgressions.

Here is a quote from Jacob Tobia that gives more context as to what they mean by objectification. It's pretty tame.

It’s pretty shíte.

Gatling

Gruffalux wrote: »

''Bliss'' female is so much nicer than the repulsive word ''Cis'' female I think we should all claim it.

Blissfully woman or women.

I'll stick with MAN - acronyms not required or requested or entertained .

Belated happy international women's Day Gruffalux and our other female posters

LLMMLL

Cestmoi 111 wrote: »

It’s pretty shíte.

Either way it's not fetishistic or commenting prescriptively on femininity.

ingalway

LLMMLL wrote: »

More on Bliss Female's "rogues gallery" of trans writers transgressions.

Here is a quote from Jacob Tobia that gives more context as to what they mean by objectification. It's pretty tame.

How about Andrea Long Chu's assertion that "the asshole is a universal vagina through which females can always be accessed"?

https://twitter.com/WomenReadWomen/status/1368447486344323076?s=20

LLMMLL

LLMMLL wrote: »

Neither do you get to choose that either it is or it isn't. Why do you think you can decide these facts but criticise others.



Internal self identication.



I have many thoughts on that.

I'll try again. How many sexes are there? Are gender and sex the same?

Gatling

Deleted User wrote: »

I'll try again. How many sexes are there? Are gender and sex the same?

How many times can one drive around a roundabout before running out of petrol

Gatling

Gatling wrote: »

How many times can one drive around a roundabout before running out of petrol

An infinite amount of time when it suits. But twice only when you actually think about it. Apparently.

Cestmoi 111

LLMMLL wrote: »

Either way it's not fetishistic or commenting prescriptively on femininity.

Andrea Long Chu and Grace Lavery are both awful individuals who say endless obnoxious things about women. They are not worth defending.
It’s ok to call out a trans person when they are awful.

Natterjack from Kerry

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I'll try again. How many sexes are there? Are gender and sex the same?

Two.
Yes.

LLMMLL

ingalway wrote: »

How about Andrea Long Chu's assertion that "the asshole is a universal vagina through which females can always be accessed"?

https://twitter.com/WomenReadWomen/status/1368447486344323076?s=20

Yeah that's pretty gross. What relevance does it have to trans rights?

LLMMLL

Cestmoi 111 wrote: »

Andrea Long Chu and Grace Lavery are both awful individuals who say endless obnoxious things about women. They are not worth defending.
It’s ok to call out a trans person when they are awful.

Of course it is. But it has nothing to do with trans issues. Maybe you should go chat about Myra Hindley in a thread about feminism.

Gatling

LLMMLL wrote: »

Yeah that's pretty gross. What relevance does it have to trans rights?

Alot of what has been posted on here has had little to do with trans rights .
Mostly wokeism and poor quality activism

LLMMLL

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I'll try again. How many sexes are there? Are gender and sex the same?

For me there are 2 sexes and 2 genders and it's the same thing. Some use "gender" to mean the perfomative aspects of being male or female though I don't.

Gatling

It's like Baskin Robbins really there's a flavour combination for everyone

LLMMLL

Gatling wrote: »

Alot of what has been posted on here has had little to do with trans rights .

We are in complete agreement here.

Gatling

LLMMLL wrote: »

We are in complete agreement here.

In this case yeah

LLMMLL

LLMMLL wrote: »

For me there are 2 sexes and 2 genders and it's the same thing. Some use "gender" to mean the perfomative aspects of being male or female though I don't.

So are you denying that pangenderism, two spirits etc are not valid in your opinion?

Therefore you don't believe in LGBTQ+, you only believe in LGBT and everything else is outside sex or gender categories as far as you are concerned.

LLMMLL

[Deleted User] wrote: »

So are you denying that pangenderism, two spirits etc are not valid in your opinion?

Therefore you don't believe in LGBTQ+, you only believe in LGBT and everything else is outside sex or gender categories as far as you are concerned.

Nope I'm open to other opinions. I don't know enough about things like non-binary etc. to make a pronouncement on that.

Let's say given the limited information I have on sex/gender as a spectrum I can confidently say that Trans women are women, trans men are men, and I'm open minded on other matters.

Nice try though

Cestmoi 111

LLMMLL wrote: »

Of course it is. But it has nothing to do with trans issues. Maybe you should go chat about Myra Hindley in a thread about feminism.

Why are you trying so hard to defend them?
If I was to ever bring up Myra Hindley in any thread, it would be abundantly clear that I condemned her in the strongest way possible. I would not try to soften, justify or explain anything she said or did.

While I said Chu and Lavery were awful, I wouldn’t personally consider them in the same vein as Myra Hindley. That was a strange leap to make.

LLMMLL

Cestmoi 111 wrote: »

Why are you trying so hard to defend them?
If I was to ever bring up Myra Hindley in any thread, it would be abundantly clear that I condemned her in the strongest way possible. I would not try to soften, justify or explain anything she said or did.

While I said Chu and Lavery were awful, I wouldn’t personally consider them in the same vein as Myra Hindley. That was a strange leap to make.

I'm not defending them. I'm being fair to them. And defending trans people in general from anti-trans posters using individual trans people as some kind of insinuation that trans people are in general fetishists.

However, on researching what the authors said I found that Bliss Female had completely misrepresented them.

Take Julia Serano who used the quoted sentence to describe a fantasy she had as a teenager, which she now disapproves of and explains as being a result of self hatred and her Catholic upbringing.

If you wrote about a sexual fantasy you had as a teen disapprovingly, do you think it would be fair of someone to overlay a quote of that fantasy which you now disavow, and overlay it on a photo of you, post it as evidence of your current fantasies, and use it to imply that this was a common fantasy of whatever groups you happen to be a part of?

It's a hideously sneaky tactic.

LLMMLL

LLMMLL wrote: »

Nope I'm open to other opinions. I don't know enough about things like non-binary etc. to make a pronouncement on that.

Let's say given the limited information I have on sex/gender as a spectrum I can confidently say that Trans women are women, trans men are men, and I'm open minded on other matters.

Nice try though

Well then your opinion is worth absolutely nothing and based purely on feelings which are malleable by populism but not by facts.

You think there are two genders and two sexes but are open that there could be an unlimited amount but you can confidently say that trans women are actual women despite actual evidence that men aren't women because of biology.

Listen to yourself.

Honestly.

LLMMLL

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Well then your opinion is worth absolutely nothing and based purely on feelings which are malleable by populism but not by facts.

You think there are two genders and two sexes but are open that there could be an unlimited amount but you can confidently say that trans women are actual women despite actual evidence that men aren't women because of biology.

Listen to yourself.

Honestly.

Yes that sums it up nicely apart from the "actual evidence that men aren't women because of biology".

That I disagree with.

LLMMLL

LLMMLL wrote: »

Yes that sums it up nicely apart from the "actual evidence that men aren't women because of biology".

That I disagree with.

You....don't believe...that there is a difference between men and women biologically?

There's the issue I suppose.

That's your issue.

LLMMLL

[Deleted User] wrote: »

You....don't believe...that there is a difference between men and women biologically?

There's the issue I suppose.

That's your issue.

In general there is A difference between men and women biologically but trans men would have the same biology (if by biology you are talking about chromosomes and gametes) as cis women so not in all cases.

LLMMLL

LLMMLL wrote: »

In general there is A difference between men and women biologically but trans men would have the same biology (if by biology you are talking about chromosomes and gametes) as cis women so not in all cases.

Let's not muddy waters here.

I'm asking is there a biological difference between a female and a male. If there is, then surely because you believe there are only two genders and two sexes, they are different.

If you don't think that is the truth, that's fine. You are demonstrably wrong, but if this is the hill you want to die on, go for it.

LLMMLL

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Let's not muddy waters here.

I'm asking is there a biological difference between a female and a male. If there is, then surely because you believe there are only two genders and two sexes, they are different.

If you don't think that is the truth, that's fine. You are demonstrably wrong, but if this is the hill you want to die on, go for it.

I'm not going to die on any hill. I've been saying the same for 2 years and I'm still here.

There are biological differences between some males and some females in terms of chromosomes and gametes. There are biological similarities between some males and some females in terms of chromosomes and gametes.

LLMMLL

LLMMLL wrote: »

I'm not going to die on any hill. I've been saying the same for 2 years and I'm still here.

There are biological differences between some males and some females in terms of chromosomes and gametes. There are biological similarities between some males and some females in terms of chromosomes and gametes.

No. You are wrong.

There are biological differences between males and females.

Mainly the chromosomes and sex organs.

That's it.

There's no argument.

You are wrong.

If you believed that there were two sexes and a billion genders, we would have disagreed but you wouldn't have been as wrong.

But the fact you think that male and female is a matter of "some" rather than a matter of biology just means you are wrong.

LLMMLL

[Deleted User] wrote: »

No. You are wrong.

There are biological differences between males and females.

Mainly the chromosomes and sex organs.

That's it.

There's no argument.

You are wrong.

If you believed that there were two sexes and a billion genders, we would have disagreed but you wouldn't have been as wrong.

But the fact you think that male and female is a matter of "some" rather than a matter of biology just means you are wrong.

No it doesn't. And saying that I'm wrong doesn't make me wrong. You are free to believe it though. Doesn't bother me either way.

LLMMLL

LLMMLL wrote: »

No it doesn't. And saying that I'm wrong doesn't make me wrong. You are free to believe it though. Doesn't bother me either way.

Me saying you are wrong doesn't make you wrong.

The fact that you are wrong makes you wrong.