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Gender Identity in Modern Ireland (Mod warnings and Threadbanned Users in OP)
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Bannasidhe wrote: »It is a fact that gender dysphoria is not classified as a mental illness.
But it's treated as one despite what the who says ..
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But it's treated as one despite what the who says ..
Is there not a distinction between transgender tendency itself, and distress or anxiety from transgender tendencies. The second is gender dysphoria as I understand it, and not classed as a mental illness. Is the official psychiatric position the same on the former though ? Genuine question.0 -
But it's treated as one despite what the who says ..
Would i be right in saying it's a "condition" but is no longer considered an illness?
It's diagnosed by mental health professionals, it's treated with medication, surgery and therapy, it's covered by (some) medical insurance and/or public health.0 -
Bannasidhe wrote: »If a person says "in my opinion" there is zero issue with that - but that is not what has been happening.
What has been happening is pronouncements as if they are facts.
Females can not become males or vice versa.
A transwoman is not a female.
Those are facts.0 -
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suicide_circus wrote: »Would i be right in saying it's a "condition" but is no longer considered an illness?
It's diagnosed by mental health professionals, it's treated with medication, surgery and therapy,
In some cases yes the majority of cases no apparently.
But other dysphoria are considered mental health illness /issues ,
We seem have a serious case of selected cherry picking of what is and what isn't ,
It's now Linked to sexual health conditions ,but feeling your in the wrong body doesn't equate to sexualities
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Mod:
What is it that some of you cannot seem to understand? If you have an issue with the moderation of a thread - use the Help Desk - do not derail the thread discussing moderation, it will only draw more sanctions.
Do not respond to this on thread. Do not discuss moderation on thread. It's really very simple.0 -
Bannasidhe wrote: »
It is a fact that gender dysphoria is not classified as a mental illness.
I'm not bothered whether it is or isn't.
It's what category of 'thing' it is I'm interested in.
I have a question for transgender ppl.
Well, I'll put it this way;
Hypothetically, is there was a pill a woman could take, that would ensure everyone was born in the body they mentally identify with, would they agree with this. This would mean they would have the body they desire, but also there would no longer be any transgender ppl.
I'm sure, certainly for myself, If was had an option not to be born gay, I would say, no. But in the transgender case wouldn't you say transgender ppl would rather be born in the body they desire. We'd be doing them a favour in such a hypothetical pill scenario.
And this is one example why I think the transgender 'thing' is fundamentally different from the gay 'thing'.
But anyway, I have a proposal which is this;
The point of transgender is to BE transgender. That's the whole point.
So again, if you asked a transgender person who is well known, like that transwoman Biden appointed, if you asked them if they would rather be born in a womans body, in which case they wouldn't be transgender at all, what would she think about that? I suspect they'd still prefer to be transgender.
So I'm proposing that the whole point of transgender is to BE transgender in the first place.
I'd like some feedback on this from a transgender person. And answer this question specifically: Would you rather be born in the body you mentally match with, in which case you'd be cis, like most everyone else.0 -
I'm not bothered whether it is or isn't.
It's what category of 'thing' it is I'm interested in.
I have a question for transgender ppl.
Well, I'll put it this way;
Hypothetically, is there was a pill a woman could take, that would ensure everyone was born in the body they mentally identify with, would they agree with this. This would mean they would have the body they desire, but also there would no longer be any transgender ppl.
I'm sure, certainly for myself, If was had an option not to be born gay, I would say, no. But in the transgender case wouldn't you say transgender ppl would rather be born in the body they desire. We'd be doing them a favour in such a hypothetical pill scenario.
And this is one example why I think the transgender 'thing' is fundamentally different from the gay 'thing'.
But anyway, I have a proposal which is this;
The point of transgender is to BE transgender. That's the whole point.
So again, if you asked a transgender person who is well known, like that transwoman Biden appointed, if you asked them if they would rather be born in a womans body, in which case they wouldn't be transgender at all, what would she think about that? I suspect they'd still prefer to be transgender.
So I'm proposing that the whole point of transgender is to BE transgender in the first place.
I'd like some feedback on this from a transgender person. And answer this question specifically: Would you rather be born in the body you mentally match with, in which case you'd be cis, like most everyone else.
Would get less attention if they were "cis".
Would get less attention.0 -
I'm not bothered whether it is or isn't.
It's what category of 'thing' it is I'm interested in.
I have a question for transgender ppl.
Well, I'll put it this way;
Hypothetically, is there was a pill a woman could take, that would ensure everyone was born in the body they mentally identify with, would they agree with this. This would mean they would have the body they desire, but also there would no longer be any transgender ppl.
I'm sure, certainly for myself, If was had an option not to be born gay, I would say, no. But in the transgender case wouldn't you say transgender ppl would rather be born in the body they desire. We'd be doing them a favour in such a hypothetical pill scenario.
And this is one example why I think the transgender 'thing' is fundamentally different from the gay 'thing'.
But anyway, I have a proposal which is this;
The point of transgender is to BE transgender. That's the whole point.
So again, if you asked a transgender person who is well known, like that transwoman Biden appointed, if you asked them if they would rather be born in a womans body, in which case they wouldn't be transgender at all, what would she think about that? I suspect they'd still prefer to be transgender.
So I'm proposing that the whole point of transgender is to BE transgender in the first place.
I'd like some feedback on this from a transgender person. And answer this question specifically: Would you rather be born in the body you mentally match with, in which case you'd be cis, like most everyone else.
I'm afraid you are unlikely to get a response from a transgender person in this thread - or indeed in this forum. They stay well clear and I can't say I blame them.
I know a lot of transgender people, some I have known since they were children, others who transitioned later in life, FTM and MTF and having watched them, supported them in anyway I can - I suspect you are completely wrong.
You are framing being transgender as something to be desired. A bit of a hoot. When in fact I reckon the amount of courage and/or sheer emotional desperation it must take to come out as transgender is off the scale.
Why do you think anyone would subject themselves to the judgemental crap said about and to transgender people voluntarily?
Just have a read of some of the posts in this thread and tell me you would choose to be the person they are talking about - a potential sexual predator, a sexual fetishist, a sexual deviant, but significantly never ever the gender you believe yourself to be.
A transgender person has gender dysphoria meaning their biological sex is wrong. They go through a hell of a lot physically and emotionally to try and correct this mistake and you think that painful process is desirable to them?
Seriously???
You think if offered the chance to just be their true gender they would say nah - I'm loving getting dog's abuse, filling my body with hormones, considering or have had very radical surgery and all that entails so why would I want to give that up just to be who I am without hassle.
As I said I witnessed what Transgender people have to go through, the courage it takes to step outside the door, to come out, the abuse they put up with and I am in awe of them - and damn glad I am cis.0 -
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Bannasidhe wrote: »I'm afraid you are unlikely to get a response from a transgender person in this thread - or indeed in this forum. They stay well clear and I can't say I blame them.
Are you not one of the people who say that it was transgender ppl who played a massive role in the liberation of gay people, by fighting for gay rights, and that's why the 2 causes are amalgamated. But now you are saying many decades later since the Stonewall riots, they are not prepared to answer a simple question on an anonymous discussion forum. Aren't all the nasty accusations the same as they were back then? So why are the retreating from debate for this reason when they didn't before?I know a lot of transgender people, some I have known since they were children, others who transitioned later in life, FTM and MTF and having watched them, supported them in anyway I can - I suspect you are completely wrong.
Maybe I am wrong, it was just a though, but whatever I suggested I didn't personally call then deviants of any variety.You are framing being transgender as something to be desired. A bit of a hoot. When in fact I reckon the amount of courage and/or sheer emotional desperation it must take to come out as transgender is off the scale.
Why do you think anyone would subject themselves to the judgemental crap said about and to transgender people voluntarily?
Not exactly what what I was getting at. I don't doubt it takes courage to 'come out', I've experience of that myself, but I've never been over dramatic about the experience.Just have a read of some of the posts in this thread and tell me you would choose to be the person they are talking about - a potential sexual predator, a sexual fetishist, a sexual deviant, but significantly never ever the gender you believe yourself to be.
Personally, I wouldn't be put off on this anonymous discussion forum if anyone made a gay slur directed at my demographic. It rarely happens anyway. I don't buy this 'it's too scary a place' for them. Isn't this thread moderated?A transgender person has gender dysphoria meaning their biological sex is wrong. They go through a hell of a lot physically and emotionally to try and correct this mistake and you think that painful process is desirable to them?
Seriously???
Well, maybe their biological sex isn't wrong, it's just what it is. Maybe transgender is a perfectly natural thing? That it's not something 'wrong'. Don't you think it's troublesome to say there is something 'wrong' with transgender ppl. Gay ppl don't say there is something 'wrong' with them.You think if offered the chance to just be their true gender they would say nah - I'm loving getting dog's abuse, filling my body with hormones, considering or have had very radical surgery and all that entails so why would I want to give that up just to be who I am without hassle.
I don't know, that's what why I asked. It thought it was an interesting question anyway. Gay ppl by-and-large don't say they wish they were born straight.
I think one of the problems in this discussion is non-transgender ppl fighting for the rights of transgender ppl, almost exclusively these days. The general public don't know exactly what it is, including me. I think we need to know exactly what it is before we can come to a consensus on it and how we go forward on the conscientious issues.
Whatever it is, something 'wrong' or a valid natural identity, one thing that needs to happen is transgender people to at least admit they are transgender, and not absolutely equivalent to cis men or women. But I'm not even sure they are saying that, it's TRA's that are saying that. Ideological types (not all) fighting for something on transgender ppls' behalf, which you argue is a result of transgender ppl being too scared of fighting their own cause so 'you' do it for them. I don't buy that, and I want to hear from transgender people before I come to a final conclusion.0 -
Are you not one of the people who say that it was transgender ppl who played a massive role in the liberation of gay people, by fighting for gay rights, and that's why the 2 causes are amalgamated. But now you are saying many decades later since the Stonewall riots, they are not prepared to answer a simple question on an anonymous discussion forum. Aren't all the nasty accusations the same as they were back then? So why are the retreating from debate for this reason when they didn't before?
Ask yourself: what's going to be accomplished by engaging with the transphobes of this thread? Is anyone here in a position of power that they could abuse over trans people? Or is it just petulant whinging that the world is changing and they don't like it?
Why would anyone willingly subject themselves to the kind of vile abuse that's constantly posted? What could they possibly gain from it? Maybe twenty years ago when Boards was still a fairly mainstream Irish site you'd have a point but today? Though I kind of take solace in knowing a place like Boards is the holdout for this kind of bigotry - since this place is absolutely unrepresentative of Irish society (e.g. the Peter Casey thread poll vs. the actual election results), it demonstrates that people here are in the extreme minority in this country.Personally, I wouldn't be put off on this anonymous discussion forum if anyone made a gay slur directed at my demographic. It rarely happens anyway. I don't buy this 'it's too scary a place' for them. Isn't this thread moderated?
I would. Sorry but I'm at a point in my life that I don't feel the need to wilfully subject myself to that crap and I can't imagine most trans people feel that differently. And the thing is, it's clearly absolutely fine with the mods so why would you want to even be on a forum where that sort of thing is seen as acceptable? If this is the state of the thread even with moderation then there's your answer.
It's simple: you cannot have a thread where people are free to spew bile like trans people are grooming children and then turn around and expect trans people to just take that. It's perverse in its ridiculousness and I'm perplexed that anyone could honestly ask such a thing.
But it's a symptom of the wider issue that attacking minority groups on this forum is something which little to nothing is done about (see: the existence of this thread and others like it). And so the forum has predictably turned incredibly... homogeneous. For all the moaning about "liberal lefty do-gooder SJWs" that goes on, this forum is one of the ultimate examples of an echo-chamber where deviation from the accepted dogma is piled upon and ruthlessly purged.
If you really are waiting to hear from an actual trans person, I'd say don't hold your breath. But then again, anyone can make an account and claim to be anything they want so who knows? Maybe one of the twerps here will get tired of tilting at windmills and dress up as one. Sadly I imagine the irony would be lost on them.0 -
excludedbin wrote: »Ask yourself: what's going to be accomplished by engaging with the transphobes of this thread? Is anyone here in a position of power that they could abuse over trans people? Or is it just petulant whinging that the world is changing and they don't like it?.
Well, I would expect if transphobes are in the way of trans rights then that would be the point in engaging with them? No? I mean, they hardly want the transphobes to win, do they?Why would anyone willingly subject themselves to the kind of vile abuse that's constantly posted? What could they possibly gain from it? Maybe twenty years ago when Boards was still a fairly mainstream Irish site you'd have a point but today? Though I kind of take solace in knowing a place like Boards is the holdout for this kind of bigotry - since this place is absolutely unrepresentative of Irish society (e.g. the Peter Casey thread poll vs. the actual election results), it demonstrates that people here are in the extreme minority in this country.
For the rights they are asking for I'd imagine. Don't you think calling out bigotry as you put it would be a good tactical move? If views are bigoted, then call it out. Make the argument. It's not hard on an anonymous discussion forum.I would. Sorry but I'm at a point in my life that I don't feel the need to wilfully subject myself to that crap and I can't imagine most trans people feel that differently. And the thing is, it's clearly absolutely fine with the mods so why would you want to even be on a forum where that sort of thing is seen as acceptable? If this is the state of the thread even with moderation then there's your answer.
Is this the same thread where a number of thread bans have been handed out recently?It's simple: you cannot have a thread where people are free to spew bile like trans people are grooming children and then turn around and expect trans people to just take that. It's perverse in its ridiculousness and I'm perplexed that anyone could honestly ask such a thing.
I don't think exaggeration helps.But it's a symptom of the wider issue that attacking minority groups on this forum is something which little to nothing is done about (see: the existence of this thread and others like it). And so the forum has predictably turned incredibly... homogeneous. For all the moaning about "liberal lefty do-gooder SJWs" that goes on, this forum is one of the ultimate examples of an echo-chamber where deviation from the accepted dogma is piled upon and ruthlessly purged.
You are as much given a voice here as anyone else. (What threads like it btw?)
IMO boards moderation is very on top of 'minority bashing'. I think that's a good thing but you seem to think it does't exist at all. The mods have a very fine line to tread between freedom of opinion and and all kinds of prejudice. That's a very tricky one because prejudice manifests as an opinion. Wouldn't care to be a mod that has to figure all that out.If you really are waiting to hear from an actual trans person, I'd say don't hold your breath. But then again, anyone can make an account and claim to be anything they want so who knows? Maybe one of the twerps here will get tired of tilting at windmills and dress up as one. Sadly I imagine the irony would be lost on them.
Sorry, but I still don't buy this 'too offended to participate' thing. It' just does't right true. How can one expect anything to change if you don't put your case across.0 -
excludedbin wrote: »Why would anyone willingly subject themselves to the kind of vile abuse that's constantly posted? What could they possibly gain from it? Maybe twenty years ago when Boards was still a fairly mainstream Irish site you'd have a point but today? Though I kind of take solace in knowing a place like Boards is the holdout for this kind of bigotry - since this place is absolutely unrepresentative of Irish society (e.g. the Peter Casey thread poll vs. the actual election results), it demonstrates that people here are in the extreme minority in this country.
....
I dunno about that, a look at polls before the same sex marriage or repeal the 8th referendums would paint a different picture0 -
excludedbin wrote: »Ask yourself: what's going to be accomplished by engaging with the transphobes of this thread? Is anyone here in a position of power that they could abuse over trans people? Or is it just petulant whinging that the world is changing and they don't like it?
Why would anyone willingly subject themselves to the kind of vile abuse that's constantly posted? What could they possibly gain from it? Maybe twenty years ago when Boards was still a fairly mainstream Irish site you'd have a point but today? Though I kind of take solace in knowing a place like Boards is the holdout for this kind of bigotry - since this place is absolutely unrepresentative of Irish society (e.g. the Peter Casey thread poll vs. the actual election results), it demonstrates that people here are in the extreme minority in this country.
I would. Sorry but I'm at a point in my life that I don't feel the need to wilfully subject myself to that crap and I can't imagine most trans people feel that differently. And the thing is, it's clearly absolutely fine with the mods so why would you want to even be on a forum where that sort of thing is seen as acceptable? If this is the state of the thread even with moderation then there's your answer.
It's simple: you cannot have a thread where people are free to spew bile like trans people are grooming children and then turn around and expect trans people to just take that. It's perverse in its ridiculousness and I'm perplexed that anyone could honestly ask such a thing.
But it's a symptom of the wider issue that attacking minority groups on this forum is something which little to nothing is done about (see: the existence of this thread and others like it). And so the forum has predictably turned incredibly... homogeneous. For all the moaning about "liberal lefty do-gooder SJWs" that goes on, this forum is one of the ultimate examples of an echo-chamber where deviation from the accepted dogma is piled upon and ruthlessly purged.
If you really are waiting to hear from an actual trans person, I'd say don't hold your breath. But then again, anyone can make an account and claim to be anything they want so who knows? Maybe one of the twerps here will get tired of tilting at windmills and dress up as one. Sadly I imagine the irony would be lost on them.
So lets distill that down, anyone with an opinion that differs from yours is:
Transphobe
Abusive
Bigoted
Minority
Crap
Spew Bile
Perverse
Twerp
Tilting at Windmills
and yet "we" are the ones who won't engage in discussion? Ha!excludedbin wrote: »this place is absolutely unrepresentative of Irish society ....it demonstrates that people here are in the extreme minority in this country.
So being in the minority means that you are automatically in the wrong? That's an interesting stance to take from someone defending transgenderism.0 -
OK, trans person here, all I can say is that Bannasidhe's answers were spot onAre you not one of the people who say that it was transgender ppl who played a massive role in the liberation of gay people, by fighting for gay rights, and that's why the 2 causes are amalgamated. But now you are saying many decades later since the Stonewall riots, they are not prepared to answer a simple question on an anonymous discussion forum. Aren't all the nasty accusations the same as they were back then? So why are the retreating from debate for this reason when they didn't before?
Trans people are not "retreating" from any debate, by and large we did it 10, 20, 30 years ago, in the main we are just getting on with our lives.Maybe I am wrong, it was just a though, but whatever I suggested I didn't personally call then deviants of any variety.
But to a trans person, your original premise was very flawed, honestly, going through medical transition and surgery is really not a bundle of laughs, things are better now, but you do lose family and friends along the way, it's not something people choose to do for sh1ts and giggles.Not exactly what what I was getting at. I don't doubt it takes courage to 'come out', I've experience of that myself, but I've never been over dramatic about the experience.
Slight difference for a gay person coming out though, you come out to people you know, for a lot of trans people coming out means they are out to everyone, there is no hiding it. You can chose to tell the person beside you at a bus stop that you are gay (weird thing to do, I know) for a lot of trans people they can not hide the fact they are transitioning, so, yeah it can be quite "over dramatic"Personally, I wouldn't be put off on this anonymous discussion forum if anyone made a gay slur directed at my demographic. It rarely happens anyway. I don't buy this 'it's too scary a place' for them. Isn't this thread moderated?
It's not that it is too scary, I for one put up with all this kind of crap 25 years ago when I tranisitioned, I had to explain to people what being trans was, nowadays you don't expect to keep having to justify yourself, and yes this thread is moderated, but, really, boards is not a friendly welcoming place for trans people.Well, maybe their biological sex isn't wrong, it's just what it is. Maybe transgender is a perfectly natural thing? That it's not something 'wrong'. Don't you think it's troublesome to say there is something 'wrong' with transgender ppl. Gay ppl don't say there is something 'wrong' with them.
Gay people also don't typically go looking for medical intervention. People don't seem to get that medical transitioning is going on for best part of 100 years, do you honestly think that the first trans person that approached a doctor was told, that's fine? The medical route has been worked out over a very long time, therapy was tried for decades and, you know what, when it comes to trans people it doesn't work.
Part of the problem is that transgender covers a multitude, within that trans people who medically transition are a tiny minority, some people are happy with a social transition, some people are happy with just hormones and some have surgical intervention.I don't know, that's what why I asked. It thought it was an interesting question anyway. Gay ppl by-and-large don't say they wish they were born straight.
Because, once again, the experience of being gay or trans are different in that respect, honestly I would not wish being born trans on my worst enemy.I think one of the problems in this discussion is non-transgender ppl fighting for the rights of transgender ppl, almost exclusively these days. The general public don't know exactly what it is, including me. I think we need to know exactly what it is before we can come to a consensus on it and how we go forward on the conscientious issues.
But what do you mean go forward? Self ID is here in Irelend and several other countries, even countries without self ID allow trans people to change ID and have done for many years, so what exactly do you want to debate?Whatever it is, something 'wrong' or a valid natural identity, one thing that needs to happen is transgender people to at least admit they are transgender, and not absolutely equivalent to cis men or women. But I'm not even sure they are saying that, it's TRA's that are saying that. Ideological types (not all) fighting for something on transgender ppls' behalf, which you argue is a result of transgender ppl being too scared of fighting their own cause so 'you' do it for them. I don't buy that, and I want to hear from transgender people before I come to a final conclusion.
The one big difference I see is that if you are gay, you are gay for life, it is a big part of who you are, your identity is bound up in that. I'm a transwoman, I don't often say that because, honestly it has no bearing on my life now. When I was transitioning, yes it was a pretty major part, but once transitioning is over, I just live, there are very very few occasions when I have to say I'm a trans woman and none of them occur in day to day life.
I have no "cause" to fight for, if people are looking to remove rights from me, then I will however fight tooth and nail to protect those rights.0 -
Are you not one of the people who say that it was transgender ppl who played a massive role in the liberation of gay people, by fighting for gay rights, and that's why the 2 causes are amalgamated. But now you are saying many decades later since the Stonewall riots, they are not prepared to answer a simple question on an anonymous discussion forum. Aren't all the nasty accusations the same as they were back then? So why are the retreating from debate for this reason when they didn't before?
If I am reading this correctly you are saying that as it is a matter of historical record that transgender people were allies in the fight for gay rights contemporary transgender people should place themselves for questioning by anonymous posters on a message board to answer personal questions about themselves, discuss off the wall theories with no basis in evidence, counter claims that they are fetishists/potential sexual abusers/plain wrong, and deal with some frankly insulting "opinions"?
Gee, can't understand why there isn't a queue.
Never said you did.Maybe I am wrong, it was just a though, but whatever I suggested I didn't personally call then deviants of any variety.
Firstly, your experience doesn't seem to have engendered any empathy.Not exactly what what I was getting at. I don't doubt it takes courage to 'come out', I've experience of that myself, but I've never been over dramatic about the experience.
Secondly, why would you need to be 'over dramatic' when you can easily pass as straight when it suits you? Although there are transgender people who it is impossible to tell by looking that they are not Cis the reality for many is that they retain some features of their biologically assigned gender meaning - in the words of some here - "you can tell" (although I should point out that quite often the "the tell" is incorrect and many a cis masculine woman has been the subject of abuse). Yet, they "undramatically" leave their homes in the knowledge that today could be the day they get assaulted.
Tell you what - why don't you try it for a week? Just in the interests of getting some real (not theory) input.
Everyday do your very very best drag and go about your usual life and let's see how dramatic it can get.
And what applies to you personally is the universal standard now?Personally, I wouldn't be put off on this anonymous discussion forum if anyone made a gay slur directed at my demographic. It rarely happens anyway. I don't buy this 'it's too scary a place' for them. Isn't this thread moderated?
If you think homophobic slurs rarely happen you obviously weren't here during the Mar Ref debates.Well, maybe their biological sex isn't wrong, it's just what it is. Maybe transgender is a perfectly natural thing? That it's not something 'wrong'. Don't you think it's troublesome to say there is something 'wrong' with transgender ppl. Gay ppl don't say there is something 'wrong' with them.
I don't know, that's what why I asked. It thought it was an interesting question anyway. Gay ppl by-and-large don't say they wish they were born straight.
Genuine question - do you do even a modicum of research before you post?
https://library.bc.edu/answerwall/2020/01/27/i-like-guys-but-i-dont-want-to-be-gay-how-do-i-stop-being-gay/
https://www.winchesterhospital.org/health-library/article?id=14547
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v--BuHXVA70
I am amazed you seem to have never heard the phrase "Pray away the Gay".
Why don't you make the personal effort to talk to some transgender people in a non-judgemental way with an open mind?I think one of the problems in this discussion is non-transgender ppl fighting for the rights of transgender ppl, almost exclusively these days. The general public don't know exactly what it is, including me. I think we need to know exactly what it is before we can come to a consensus on it and how we go forward on the conscientious issues.
This forum is not that placeWhatever it is, something 'wrong' or a valid natural identity, one thing that needs to happen is transgender people to at least admit they are transgender, and not absolutely equivalent to cis men or women. But I'm not even sure they are saying that, it's TRA's that are saying that. Ideological types (not all) fighting for something on transgender ppls' behalf, which you argue is a result of transgender ppl being too scared of fighting their own cause so 'you' do it for them. I don't buy that, and I want to hear from transgender people before I come to a final conclusion.
That is a good example of not being open minded - that is you deciding what other people should do. That is not your call.
Also - I have never met a transgender person who claimed to be cis. If they did that would be a lie.
The rest of that seem to be some people (not all) say some things because of this reason I think is true based mostly on this thread.
If you want to hear from transgender people demanding they participate in this thread is entirely the wrong way to do that.0 -
I haven't posted in a while - but on the subject of this not being a particularly friendly place to post - it has been shown that there have been attempts to continually show trans people in a negative light (The quotes taken from books entirely out of context was completely hysterical nonsense and if anyone bothered to actually look up these texts it would have been seen as twitter based propaganda).
Other things that regularly continue (some get moderated, some don't):
- Judgements on what is trans enough (honestly would anyone tolerate private questions on what surgeries you've had, never mind genitals)
- Demands that to be accepted one must do x or y to present a certain way.
- Constant confusion over mental illnesses and misuse of specific terms (As far as I know
- Shouting on about science as if chromosomes are the only thing in science QED no further research etc (that's not how science works.. its continually evolving)
- many posts about people appearances
- lots of misgendering
- Trivialising being transgender (Comments like - Man Monday, all girly Tuesday, switch back again by the weekend and its pink, pink, pink etc, comparing it a "Woke Ideology", comparisons to religious in a patronising manner etc). Just imagine for a second what it must feel like to tell people that you want to present as a gender not traditionally associated with your birth sex. The potential for ridicule and all sorts (as often happens). The disruption to life and the pain that's going to cause. Then there is an expectation to have to come online and explain all of this to an already hostile environment.
Additionally, I think some people generally want to try and understand more about this very complex subject, but if you are already going through some tough times why would you come along here and get involved fighting through a lot of crap, to explain yourself to some stranger on the internet.
I also think there are some genuine fears from some people. These seem to be around certain abuses of power (the prison situation if often cited - unfortunately I don't know enough about that). But if abuses take place we should tackle the abuse, not tar all trans people with the same brush.
I think if people did want to find out more about trans issues, there is a lot out there. But you need to look beyond your usual sources of information. Learn what the DSM actually is and the science behind gender (and there is science, not just an "ideology"). Stop prejudging people based on extremists (Extreme trans activists and extreme non trans viewpoints) and look beyond "Us" vs "Them".0 -
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Bannasidhe wrote: »Genuine question - do you do even a modicum of research before you post?
https://library.bc.edu/answerwall/2020/01/27/i-like-guys-but-i-dont-want-to-be-gay-how-do-i-stop-being-gay/
https://www.winchesterhospital.org/health-library/article?id=14547
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v--BuHXVA70
I am amazed you seem to have never heard the phrase "Pray away the Gay".
Do you genuinely believe that those attitudes are the standard in the world today?
You take great offence when posters take individual trans statements and use them to represent all trans people, yet you constantly do the same in the other direction. I wonder are you even aware of it?0 -
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Do you genuinely believe that those attitudes are the standard in the world today?
You take great offence when posters take individual trans statements and use them to represent all trans people, yet you constantly do the same in the other direction. I wonder are you even aware of it?
Where did I say they were standard in the world today?
I was countering a very specific claim "Gay ppl don't say there is something 'wrong' with them." by showing that as a matter of fact some do.
And in parts of the world such views are very much standard. We just don't happen to live in those parts of the world, but there was a time Ireland was so much part of that world The European Court of Human Rights was called upon.
I am interested in examples of where I am guilty of what you claim - from my perspective I countered a claim made by one poster directly to that poster.
The irony that you used that rebuttal to claim I said something I most certainly did not say as part of telling me off isn't lost on me.0 -
Right and the example tweets by some transgender people that you took issue with as not representative of all trans views...are they not matter of fact reality?Bannasidhe wrote: »Where did I say they were standard in the world today?
I was countering a very specific claim "Gay ppl don't say there is something 'wrong' with them." by showing that as a matter of fact some do.
Seems a bit inconsistent.
Fantastic point, however the thread is "Gender Identity in Modern Ireland", so, at least to me that means "now" and "in Ireland"?Bannasidhe wrote: »And in parts of the world such views are very much standard. We just don't happen to live in those parts of the world, but there was a time Ireland was so much part of that world The European Court of Human Rights was called upon.
So you didn't take issue with other posters who shared some transgender tweets because you felt they were not representative of transgender views in general?Bannasidhe wrote: »I am interested in examples of where I am guilty of what you claim - from my perspective I countered a claim made by one poster directly to that poster.
The irony that you used that rebuttal to claim I said something I most certainly did not say as part of telling me off isn't lost on me.0 -
What rights are being removed from trans people?
None, at the moment, you may have missed the "if" in my sentence, but even so, there are people on this thread calling for trans people to use third spaces for changing areas and toilets. It may seem trivial to some, but having gained legal protection, I'm a wee bit twitchy when it comes to such talk.0 -
excludedbin wrote: »
If you really are waiting to hear from an actual trans person, I'd say don't hold your breath. But then again, anyone can make an account and claim to be anything they want
That's what usually happens someone comes along with their first post and can say anything they want along with a standing ovation it's more than likely someone Already in the thread would stoop to level for a few likes and make it look they are standing up to the big bad phobes.
It's hardly original
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That's what usually happens someone comes along with their first post and can say anything they want along with a standing ovation it's more than likely someone Already in the thread would stoop to level for a few likes and make it look they are standing up to the big bad phobes.
It's hardly original
Sorry to disappoint, I'm a super long time lurker and actual trans person.0 -
"Would be nice to have someone trans here to discuss."
<Trans person enters the room>
"Hey look there's a trans person let's attack them and accuse them of lies"
Well done!0 -
Right and the example tweets by some transgender people that you took issue with as not representative of all trans views...are they not matter of fact reality?
Seems a bit inconsistent.
Fantastic point, however the thread is "Gender Identity in Modern Ireland", so, at least to me that means "now" and "in Ireland"?
So you didn't take issue with other posters who shared some transgender tweets because you felt they were not representative of transgender views in general?
Which tweets are these?
Perhaps you can link the post where I objected to tweets from transgender people as I have no recollection of doing so. I even searched my post history and I can find no post where I directly object to any tweet made by transgender people.
I can't even find any posts where I directly comment on any one else sharing tweets.
Am I now getting a telling off for allegedly taking issue with someone sharing someone else's tweets?
Is this like where you claimed I said something I never said about the world?
By the by - on this: "Fantastic point, however the thread is "Gender Identity in Modern Ireland", so, at least to me that means "now" and "in Ireland"?"
Did you protest when tweets from a gay man living in the UK who would be on your side of the debate were shared?
If not your little lecture seems a bit inconsistent.0 -
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None, at the moment, you may have missed the "if" in my sentence, but even so, there are people on this thread calling for trans people to use third spaces for changing areas and toilets. It may seem trivial to some, but having gained legal protection, I'm a wee bit twitchy when it comes to such talk.
Nope, I saw it alright.
In the event spaces were created for a third gender, what rights would you be losing in your opinion?
You aren't being denied the right to a public space or toilet, in fact you are being given your own, appropriate to your gender, just like everyone else is?0 -
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Lol that's desperate
One minute the mods are letting people away with abuse and various other claims ,
But we've seen the complete opposite to whats been claimed from Passive agressive posters ,
Now playing the victims
Following on from a conversation about why trans people may be reluctant to comment, someone appears.
Your first response was to call them out from being a liar and claim they were full of sh!t..
There wasn't any aggressiveness either. Passive or otherwise.
What else can I say..??0
This discussion has been closed.
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