Gender Identity in Modern Ireland (Mod warnings and Threadbanned Users in OP)

GreeBo

Bannasidhe wrote: »

By the by - on this: "Fantastic point, however the thread is "Gender Identity in Modern Ireland", so, at least to me that means "now" and "in Ireland"?"

Did you protest when tweets from a gay man living in the UK who would be on your side of the debate were shared?
If not your little lecture seems a bit inconsistent.

So you didn't have any issue with those posts and are perfectly happy for me to use posts where transgender people say that the asshole is the universal vagina as an example of transgender thinking?


Hang about, so now homosexuality isn't related to transgenderism? Getting very hard to keep track to be honest. So no more LGBTQ+?

If your posts reached any further they'd be touching.

Gatling

GreeBo wrote: »

Nope, I saw it alright.
In the event spaces were created for a third gender, what rights would you be losing in your opinion?

I remember for a good while this was been pushed in schools oh we need a 3rd gender toilet , with one particular union making a claim of a certain percentage of school children were trans based off their own claim of what they seen in schools ,
But yet very few schools have reported they had kids who identified as trans or other gender , we've a million children in schools here even if you said ten percent were trans that would suggest we've over 100,000 trans kids here , even say be generous at 5 % that would see 50,000 trans kids here ,
Yet Very few less than 60 have ever been referred to gender reassignment /Identity clinics and the number is reducing year on year .
Less than 50 people have grc If I remember correctly
We've all seen claims I know this many trans people another will claim they know more trans people it's seems to be a pissing contest to see who's the biggest trans supporter,
Remember only only gay men should be allowed to discuss ,what about women oh it's got nothing to do with women ,we just find women , woman ,girl offensive ,but what about womens rights oh but trans rights over anyone else's, how about move the thread to the LGBT forum oh no we don't want that either ,
Most trans posts last a few pages before dying , with most involving recently registered or very low post count over a number of years .
So how can you have an honest discussion on a small cohort trying to dictate the terms of the discussion and yet none of them are apparently trans ,or discuss trans issues anywhere else on boards ,

km991148

Gatling wrote: »

I remember for a good while this was been pushed in schools oh we need a 3rd gender toilet , with one particular union making a claim of a certain percentage of school children were trans based off their own claim of what they seen in schools ,
But yet very few schools have reported they had kids who identified as trans or other gender , we've a million children in schools here even if you said ten percent were trans that would suggest we've over 100,000 trans kids here , even say be generous at 5 % that would see 50,000 trans kids here ,
Yet Very few less than 60 have ever been referred to gender reassignment /Identity clinics and the number is reducing year on year .
Less than 50 people have grc If I remember correctly
We've all seen claims I know this many trans people another will claim they know more trans people it's seems to be a pissing contest to see who's the biggest trans supporter,
Remember only only gay men should be allowed to discuss ,what about women oh it's got nothing to do with women ,we just find women , woman ,girl offensive ,but what about womens rights oh but trans rights over anyone else's, how about move the thread to the LGBT forum oh no we don't want that either ,
Most trans posts last a few pages before dying , with most involving recently registered or very low post count over a number of years .
So how can you have an honest discussion on a small cohort trying to dictate the terms of the discussion and yet none of them are apparently trans ,or discuss trans issues anywhere else on boards ,

Why would there be 10pc when it's estimated closer to 2 in the general population?

Also weren't you recently arguing that there is an aggressive cohort of trans people trying to convert children en masse or something similar (maybe it wasn't you, sorry if I'm mistaken)?.

I'm genuinely sorry if I've missed the point here, I find the stream of consciousness style of posting hard to follow.
Don't take that as passive aggressive please.

Gatling

km991148 wrote: »

Also weren't you recently arguing that there is an aggressive cohort of trans people trying to convert children en masse or something similar (maybe it wasn't you, sorry if I'm mistaken)?.

Seriously do you just make this ****e up ..

And yes it's quite passive aggressive

Bannasidhe

GreeBo wrote: »

So you didn't have any issue with those posts and are perfectly happy for me to use posts where transgender people say that the asshole is the universal vagina as an example of transgender thinking?


Hang about, so now homosexuality isn't related to transgenderism? Getting very hard to keep track to be honest. So no more LGBTQ+?

If your posts reached any further they'd be touching.

I thought it was tweets by transgender people I was supposed to have objected to?


What is it now - couldn't you find any post where I objected to whatever you are claimed I objected to so that means I didn't object?



Your argument boils down to I can't find any posts where you objected to the stuff I'm going on about therefore you are ok with it.


Not even Superman could make leaps of that size.


Tell you what - you post whatever it is you are on about and if I am on boards and if I am in this thread and if I see them and if I object I will do so in writing. Hell, I'll even PM you for your records.



As for your last paragraph I again have no idea what you are blethering on about - but as you seem to be well versed in what I have and have not commented on, and what that means or doesn't mean, I am sure you are already aware that I have explained the connection several times already.



Now, if there anything else makey uppy that you want to accuse me of it will have to wait until tomorrow as I am binge watching Deutschland 83/86/89 since last week.
Hold it - tomorrow doesn't work for me, Thursday is bad too - Friday, I can deal with your next round of bizarre accusations on Friday.



While I'm gone you might find your post where you objected to a tweet from an English bloke being shared what with this thread being about Ireland.

DeargDaol

GreeBo wrote: »

Nope, I saw it alright.
In the event spaces were created for a third gender, what rights would you be losing in your opinion?

But, I'm not a third gender? Forcing people to use such faciities would, eh, kind of be infringing on your right to privacy (as in outing yourself as trans every time you go into such a place)

GreeBo wrote: »

You aren't being denied the right to a public space or toilet, in fact you are being given your own, appropriate to your gender, just like everyone else is?

So walk me through this? Unless you are the poster who can spot a trans person at 50 paces, who decides who goes where? Maybe we should just wear, I dunno, a little symbol on our clothing to indicate we are different?

So, it would be in essence, Separate but Equal, would that be right?

I dunno, all this sounds, very, familiar or something, I'm sure I read about something like this before?

km991148

Gatling wrote: »

Seriously do you just make this ****e up ..

And yes it's quite passive aggressive

Generally people were claiming that groups of teenage girls were being encouraged to transition. I thought you were one of those people.
I'm sorry you seem to take offence. I'm not the aggressor here.

DeargDaol

Gatling wrote: »

I remember for a good while this was been pushed in schools oh we need a 3rd gender toilet , with one particular union making a claim of a certain percentage of school children were trans based off their own claim of what they seen in schools ,
But yet very few schools have reported they had kids who identified as trans or other gender , we've a million children in schools here even if you said ten percent were trans that would suggest we've over 100,000 trans kids here , even say be generous at 5 % that would see 50,000 trans kids here ,
Yet Very few less than 60 have ever been referred to gender reassignment /Identity clinics and the number is reducing year on year .
Less than 50 people have grc If I remember correctly

Best estimate is 0.6%, so your numbers are a little off, also not every trans person goes the medical route, also given we have essentially no gender identity services here, most people do tend to move abroad, so not that surprising.

[QUOTE=Gatling;116602387We've all seen claims I know this many trans people another will claim they know more trans people it's seems to be a pissing contest to see who's the biggest trans supporter,
Remember only only gay men should be allowed to discuss ,what about women oh it's got nothing to do with women ,we just find women , woman ,girl offensive ,but what about womens rights oh but trans rights over anyone else's, how about move the thread to the LGBT forum oh no we don't want that either ,
Most trans posts last a few pages before dying , with most involving recently registered or very low post count over a number of years .
So how can you have an honest discussion on a small cohort trying to dictate the terms of the discussion and yet none of them are apparently trans ,or discuss trans issues anywhere else on boards ,[/QUOTE]

Well, (a) sorry for knowing more trans people than you and (b) sorry for replying when someone asked for a trans persons opinion. As I said, I don't have trans issues, so not sure why I should be posting elsewhere (whee, does than mean I have my first bona fide boards stalker?)

Imagine having a discussion on, I don't know, Irish people, but getting upset when an Irish person responds? What do you want to discuss anyway?

Gatling

km991148 wrote: »

I'm not the aggressor here

Sounds like a Putin quote

Gatling

DeargDaol wrote: »

Imagine having a discussion on, I don't know, Irish people, but getting upset when an Irish person responds?

Having a discussion on Irish people in Ireland on a Irish based discussion forum ...

GreeBo

DeargDaol wrote: »

But, I'm not a third gender? Forcing people to use such faciities would, eh, kind of be infringing on your right to privacy (as in outing yourself as trans every time you go into such a place)



So walk me through this? Unless you are the poster who can spot a trans person at 50 paces, who decides who goes where? Maybe we should just wear, I dunno, a little symbol on our clothing to indicate we are different?

So, it would be in essence, Separate but Equal, would that be right?

I dunno, all this sounds, very, familiar or something, I'm sure I read about something like this before?

Well many people consider you to be a third gender, since your preferred gender doesn't match your sex, for many that's a prerequisite.

Is my right to privacy infringed upon by me having to go to a male toilet, thus outing myself as male?

Who decides who goes where today? How does it work at the moment? You can wear whatever symbol you want, not sure the relevance unless you are Godwining the thread?

Male and female are separate but equal today, again not sure of the point you are making?

Ted_YNWA

Gatling wrote: »

Lol that's desperate

One minute the mods are letting people away with abuse and various other claims ,
But we've seen the complete opposite to whats been claimed from Passive agressive posters ,
Now playing the victims

Gatling wrote: »

Seriously do you just make this ****e up ..

And yes it's quite passive aggressive

Gatling wrote: »

Sounds like a Putin quote

Mod

Don't post in this thread again.

You are unable to be civil, which is the premise of any discussion on Boards.

km991148

GreeBo wrote: »

Well many people consider you to be a third gender, since your preferred gender doesn't match your sex, for many that's a prerequisite.

Not trying to argue, but my understanding (and someone please inform me otherwise if I am mistaken) of 3rd gender was more around those that don't identify either as male or female and not a definition that relates gender to sex.

Gatling

Case and point 3 post I've reported and I get mod actioned again yet the false claims made by a passive aggressive poster has gone unnoticed

Baggly

Gatling wrote: »

Case and point 3 post I've reported and I get mod actioned again yet the false claims made by a passive aggressive poster has gone unnoticed

Mod

Aaaaaaaaand....ya banned.

AllForIt

DeargDaol wrote: »

OK, trans person here
Trans people are not "retreating" from any debate, by and large we did it 10, 20, 30 years ago, in the main we are just getting on with our lives.

Hi and thanks for getting involved here. Your intervention is to be welcomed as far as this thread is concerned at least.

But to a trans person, your original premise was very flawed, honestly, going through medical transition and surgery is really not a bundle of laughs, things are better now, but you do lose family and friends along the way, it's not something people choose to do for sh1ts and giggles.

I don't doubt transitioning is not easy. I'm sure you can see why some would feel it should only be carried out as a last resort.

I often wonder how transgender ppl managed when transitioning wasn't possible. 100 years of the option to transition is nothing relatively.

Slight difference for a gay person coming out though, you come out to people you know, for a lot of trans people coming out means they are out to everyone, there is no hiding it. You can chose to tell the person beside you at a bus stop that you are gay (weird thing to do, I know) for a lot of trans people they can not hide the fact they are transitioning, so, yeah it can be quite "over dramatic"

Well, I wasn't really taking about the transitioning process, but I take your point.

Part of the problem is that transgender covers a multitude, within that trans people who medically transition are a tiny minority, some people are happy with a social transition, some people are happy with just hormones and some have surgical intervention.

Well I agree with that, and more so these days. Because on the one hand I'm told that to be transgender is somehow a 'wrong' thing that needs to be fixed, but on the other we have those that say they are gender fluid, non-binary etc, so is all that something gone 'wrong' as well? Because the latter appears to be something promoted as wonderfully colourful and diverse as if it were to be welcomed in society.

Because, once again, the experience of being gay or trans are different in that respect, honestly I would not wish being born trans on my worst enemy.

So, to go back to my hypothetical pill fix scenario, you'd agree with that then, if it were possible? In which case trans would be no more. Medically fixed just like transitioning but must less painful.

But what do you mean go forward? Self ID is here in Irelend and several other countries, even countries without self ID allow trans people to change ID and have done for many years, so what exactly do you want to debate?

Well going by this thread there isn't as high public support for all trans rights as their is for gay rights currently. I think that's why this thread exists in the first place. And, I think when it comes to trans legal rights they are currently developing. E.g. in the UK there was proposals to make self-id something that didn't require a medical cert. That's certainly something that warrants debate would't you think.

The one big difference I see is that if you are gay, you are gay for life, it is a big part of who you are, your identity is bound up in that. I'm a transwoman, I don't often say that because, honestly it has no bearing on my life now. When I was transitioning, yes it was a pretty major part, but once transitioning is over, I just live, there are very very few occasions when I have to say I'm a trans woman and none of them occur in day to day life. I have no "cause" to fight for, if people are looking to remove rights from me, then I will however fight tooth and nail to protect those rights.

Yea I agree with that, which Is one of the reasons why I argue gay and trans rights activism should be separate.

AllForIt

Bannasidhe wrote: »

If you want to hear from transgender people demanding they participate in this thread is entirely the wrong way to do that.

Seems to have worked :P

Rodin

Gatling wrote: »

I remember for a good while this was been pushed in schools oh we need a 3rd gender toilet , with one particular union making a claim of a certain percentage of school children were trans based off their own claim of what they seen in schools ,
But yet very few schools have reported they had kids who identified as trans or other gender , we've a million children in schools here even if you said ten percent were trans that would suggest we've over 100,000 trans kids here , even say be generous at 5 % that would see 50,000 trans kids here ,
Yet Very few less than 60 have ever been referred to gender reassignment /Identity clinics and the number is reducing year on year .
Less than 50 people have grc If I remember correctly
We've all seen claims I know this many trans people another will claim they know more trans people it's seems to be a pissing contest to see who's the biggest trans supporter,
Remember only only gay men should be allowed to discuss ,what about women oh it's got nothing to do with women ,we just find women , woman ,girl offensive ,but what about womens rights oh but trans rights over anyone else's, how about move the thread to the LGBT forum oh no we don't want that either ,
Most trans posts last a few pages before dying , with most involving recently registered or very low post count over a number of years .
So how can you have an honest discussion on a small cohort trying to dictate the terms of the discussion and yet none of them are apparently trans ,or discuss trans issues anywhere else on boards ,

Small doesn't even begin to describe how small this cohort is. The amount of discussion/discourse around transrights is completely at odds with its prevalence. If only an equivalent amount of time according to prevalence was given to disabled people. Now there's a cohort who are not catered for adequately in society.

One eyed Jack

Rodin wrote: »

Small doesn't even begin to describe how small this cohort is. The amount of discussion/discourse around transrights is completely at odds with its prevalence. If only an equivalent amount of time according to prevalence was given to disabled people. Now there's a cohort who are not catered for adequately in society.

Is it though? I mean, in a thread relating to the rights of people who are transgender, it would simply be whataboutery to say “but what about people who are disabled?”, as though there isn’t a proportionate amount of discussion regarding the rights of people with disabilities. You have to ignore a whole lot of discussion about people with disabilities, or you’re not aware of it, but just because you’re not aware of it doesn’t mean these discussions don’t take place.

I can think of two examples in recent times when the rights of people with disabilities came up for discussion - one example was concerned with negative representations of people with disabilities in the media, and there was no shortage of people claiming that people with disabilities were making unreasonable demands and being over-sensitive and all the rest of it. The other example concerned the education of autistic children and the argument that they were losing out on their education and their lives were in turmoil as a result of the current social restrictions, and again their demands are portrayed as unreasonable and all the rest of it.

Quite similar is happening in relation to the rights of people who are transgender - their demands for equal treatment are seen as unreasonable, and a major part of any focus on the rights of people who are transgender is concerned with how other people who are not transgender will be negatively affected if people who are transgender are treated equally in Irish society. That line of argument where you attempt to pit one group in society against another comes something of a cropper when you have to acknowledge the considerable overlap between the two groups you’re trying to set at odds with each other; namely in this case people with disabilities and people who are transgender.

It’s quite easy to see a facetious argument for what it is, and one of the most common tilting at windmills arguments constitutes of hinting at a relationship between autism and gender identity, or sexual orientation and gender identity, as though there is a hierarchy of what those people find acceptable and more reasonable, anything but gender dysphoria, basically. There are all manner of conclusions can be drawn from engineering correlations based upon analysis of statistical data, but much of it just isn’t supported by the overwhelming evidence to the contrary that suggests there is no relationship between autism and gender identity, or sexual orientation and gender identity.

What is true of course, is that people who are perceived as deviating from the norm in some regard, are subject to unjust treatment and discrimination in Irish society, and there is plenty of overlap between social groups, a fact that is often forgotten by people looking to use one group of people against against another as if it’s some sort of a zero sum game with winners and losers, when all anyone who argues for equal treatment of all people in society is concerned with is just that - everyone having equal opportunities to participate equally in Irish society.

Tokyo

Bannasidhe wrote: »

If you all are comfortable being on the same side of a 'debate' with those who burn people alive I hope, for their sake, no member of your family or any of your friends ever comes out at Transgender.

Mod: @Bannasidhe - pretty bad faith argument. Don't post in the thread again.

GreeBo

km991148 wrote: »

Not trying to argue, but my understanding (and someone please inform me otherwise if I am mistaken) of 3rd gender was more around those that don't identify either as male or female and not a definition that relates gender to sex.

Well gender fluidity makes a mockery of the whole thing for me, so I personally (currently!) see 3 genders:
Biological Males
Biological Females
Other

GreeBo

GreeBo wrote: »

Well many people consider you to be a third gender, since your preferred gender doesn't match your sex, for many that's a prerequisite.

Is my right to privacy infringed upon by me having to go to a male toilet, thus outing myself as male?

Who decides who goes where today? How does it work at the moment? You can wear whatever symbol you want, not sure the relevance unless you are Godwining the thread?

Male and female are separate but equal today, again not sure of the point you are making?

@DeargDaol any response to my reply?

TomTomTim

https://twitter.com/jordanbpeterson/status/1372407638273720321?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1372407638273720321%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fpatriots.win%2Fp%2F12hl0TU4jX%2Fjordan-peterson-on-twitter-this-%2Fc%2F

The warrant was issued by a judge for the arrest of a father after calling his biological female child his "daughter," and referring to her with the pronouns "she" and "her." Hoogland was found to be in contempt of court.
Hoogland is a father to a gender non-conforming biological female 14-year-old who identifies as transgender and prefers the use of male pronouns. Hoogland has repeatedly called this person his daughter, though the court has forbade it.
On Tuesday at 10 am Vancouver time, Hoogland surrendered himself to the court in response to the Attorney General of British Columbia's warrant his arrest for contempt. He was the arrested and jailed. The warrant was issued by Judge Tammen on March 4, 2021

Hoogland told his story. The child had complex problems, but the court blamed them all on gender dysphoria. His marriage to the child's mother had broken up. He said that, in grades 5 and 6, his daughter was "getting into trouble and hanging out with boys," so they arranged for her to see the school counsellor. In grade 7, he noticed she cut off her long hair and started wearing a toupé. He said that she developed intense crushes on two male teachers, and made a suicide attempt.
Hoogland discovered that the school had been showing his daughter SOGI 123, the going sexual and gender identity education materials in British Columbia which amounts to transgender ideology "propaganda videos." In the grade 7 yearbook, the child was referred to by a different name. The school counsellor changed the child's name without telling her parents. The school "socially transitioned" the biologically female child on its own initiative, with the input of a gender ideologue psychologist, Dr. Wallace Wong.
When Hoogland accompanied his child to a consultation with Wong, the psychologist advised the pubescent child to take testosterone. Wong referred the child to the endocrinology unit at the local hospital. Meanwhile, Hoogland was looking for mental health solutions to help the child without drugs.

On the child's first visits to the hospital, a treatment plan was put into action. Both the child, and her mother—Hoogland's ex-wife—signed a consent form which explicitly stated that the "treatment" was experimental, meaning that the endocrinologists recommending the treatment didn't know the long-term health impact.
A gender identity activist lawyer, Barbara Findley, represented the child in court. Justice Boden decided that the child's best interests lay in destroying her long-term health to make her body appear more like that of a male.
Hoogland, in contrast, thinks his daughter's best interests lie in preserving his child's health, in case his child ends up among the estimated 85 percent of children who desist in their belief that they are the opposite sex once puberty ends.

.

I'm sure some posters here will see no issue with this, but that is an issue in itself.

km991148

GreeBo wrote: »

Well gender fluidity makes a mockery of the whole thing for me, so I personally (currently!) see 3 genders:
Biological Males
Biological Females
Other

What 'whole' thing tho?

The fact trans people do exist?
That expression of gender Vs gender Vs sex could all be different?

I mean, I'm not trying to pick holes or anything, just trying to understand.
From my point if view there is a lot if complexity and unknowns. If it were all known and worked out, we wouldn't be having this thread.

One eyed Jack

GreeBo wrote: »

@DeargDaol any response to my reply?

I can’t answer for DeargDaol, but in any case the answers to your questions are likely to be subjective anyway as opposed to anything approaching objectivity, like your first point -

GreeBo wrote: »

Well many people consider you to be a third gender, since your preferred gender doesn't match your sex, for many that's a prerequisite.

So what if they do? It doesn’t matter how many people it’s a prerequisite for, that still wouldn’t give them any more rights than they don’t have already, nor does it diminish the rights that any individual has already, such as the right to a reasonable expectation of privacy.

GreeBo wrote: »

Is my right to privacy infringed upon by me having to go to a male toilet, thus outing myself as male?

You’re not outing yourself though? The question might arise if you were using the women’s toilets, and even then you still maintain a reasonable expectation of privacy in that someone approaching you to question whether or not you are entitled to use the women’s facilities might well be regarded as an unreasonable infringement of your right to a reasonable expectation of privacy.

GreeBo wrote: »

Who decides who goes where today? How does it work at the moment?

Individuals decide for themselves which bathroom they prefer to use. Speaking from my own personal experience, people generally aren’t too concerned about who uses what bathroom for whatever their purposes. It appears to be an individual choice which facilities anyone prefers to use. Sometimes I’ll use the men’s, sometimes I’ll use the women’s, sometimes I’ll use the facilities which are provided for people with disabilities which sometimes contains the baby changing facilities, they’re not restricted by gender.

GreeBo wrote: »

You can wear whatever symbol you want, not sure the relevance unless you are Godwining the thread?

Male and female are separate but equal today, again not sure of the point you are making?

The relevance is in relation to your suggestion of the provision of facilities for a third gender, and the reference to separate but equal by displaying an indication of their gender identity can’t have been that lost on you. People would be forced to forego their right to a reasonable expectation of privacy by being forced to use facilities which other people regard as appropriate based upon other people’s perception. The point being alluded to is reminiscent of various civil rights movements throughout history where people were regarded as “separate but equal”, but it was enforced upon people, they didn’t ask for it and they didn’t campaign for it. Historically, people have campaigned against segregation, whether it be based upon race, ethnicity, sexual orientation, sex or gender identity, etc.

Offering people a lesser status, or something they haven’t asked for, is generally regarded as a white elephant, rather than the gift horse the person wants to maintain it is in order to be seen as a “reasonable compromise”, as opposed to regarding all people as having equal status in law. Again, it’s why the Gender Recognition Act was enacted in Ireland in the first place, to recognise that all people have the right to their gender identity, and they have the right to have their preferred gender identity recognised by the State, and protected from unlawful discrimination on the basis of their gender identity, in the same way as everyone is protected from unlawful discrimination on the basis of any of the other protected characteristics listed in Irish Law.

Rodin

TomTomTim wrote: »

https://twitter.com/jordanbpeterson/status/1372407638273720321?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1372407638273720321%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fpatriots.win%2Fp%2F12hl0TU4jX%2Fjordan-peterson-on-twitter-this-%2Fc%2F



I'm sure some posters here will see no issue with this, but that is an issue in itself.

The child is female and therefore a daugher.
That should really be the end of it. Courts shouldn't be getting involved.

km991148

Rodin wrote: »

The child is female and therefore a daugher.
That should really be the end of it. Courts shouldn't be getting involved.

I'm not even getting into the medical treatments etc (it's hard to follow the exact story based on that article really).

But are we saying it's ok to misgender someone because they are under 18?

Side question, what was the court for? Divorce or related to the child's treatments?

the incredible pudding

What a pile of loaded nonsense that completely misrepresents the topic.
I like how the article states

"Justice Boden decided that the child's best interests lay in destroying her long-term health to make her body appear more like that of a male.
Hoogland, in contrast, thinks his daughter's best interests lie in preserving his child's health, in case his child ends up among the estimated 85 percent of children who desist in their belief that they are the opposite sex once puberty ends. "

where the quoted source for this estimate, states

"For most children with GDC, whether GD will persist or desist will probably be determined between the ages of 10 and 13 years,26 although some may need more time.27 Evidence from the 10 available prospective follow-up studies from childhood to adolescence (reviewed in the study by Ristori and Steensma28) indicates that for ~80% of children who meet the criteria for GDC, the GD recedes with puberty"

Which shows their statement from their own source to be false (along with a load of other nonsense). It usually desists well before puberty ends. It's tracked by trained professionals and an incredibly, incredibly rare occurance. They're showing a huge lack of understanding with how this work is handled within the modern professional community. I mean the it quotes some educational material designed to promote tolerance as being "propaganda videos." - almost as if seeing the material stating we should be understanding to those that are different causes this condition which is not exactly something that most people would want in their life - they're much more likely to have a much rougher time of it, whether they go through the transformation or not.

I have sympathy for this parent, even if I think he's causing even greater psychological damage to his child. It's not an easy thing to understand that someone you're raising and love would feel so out of place in their own skin and be so 'different' than other 'normal' folks. It's incredibly difficult for anyone to understand that. It doesn't help to substitute that lack of understanding with hate though and will ultimately cause a lot more damage to her than if there were attempts to be supportive and understanding.

suicide_circus

km991148 wrote: »

The fact trans people do exist?

This word "exists" comes up a lot.

The issue is not whether they exist or not, of course they exist, it's a question of definitions.

To you (correct me if i'm wrong) a transwoman for example is a female.

To someone else a transwoman is a male who thinks they are a female.

In both cases the person exists.

km991148

suicide_circus wrote: »

This word "exists" comes up a lot.

The issue is not whether they exist or not, of course they exist, it's a question of definitions.

To you (correct me if i'm wrong) a transwoman for example is a female.

To someone else a transwoman is a male who thinks they are a female.

In both cases the person exists.

I guess it's down to the link between gender and biological sex.
By stating there are 3 genders, two if which you relabeled to use the word biological, then it looks like you are even denying the existing if trans (or sweeping them all neatly into this 'other gender').

I don't have any right answers here btw, just looking at what you wrote Vs how a lot of people see it.