Gender Identity in Modern Ireland (Mod warnings and Threadbanned Users in OP)

beakerjoe

Girly Gal wrote: »

How does she know what feeling male feels like, is it a case that she at times she likes doing stereotypical males things and because of this she thinks she's non binary?

I honestly dont know.

Shes completely woke though. She had a freaker at a Frozen Yogurt shop a few weeks back for selling "guilt free" cookies and ice cream, claiming it could trigger her eating disorder.

So that tells me enough about her mindset to know she's attention seeking.

I truly belief she has major issues mentally and is damaged from her childhood/teen Disney career.

Girly Gal

Girly Gal wrote: »

How does she know what feeling male feels like, is it a case that she at times she likes doing stereotypical males things and because of this she thinks she's non binary?

This same question could be posed more generally re gender identity. How does anyone ''know'' they are really a girl when they are born a boy etc. Especially when it comes to ''trans kids''.

One of the truly ironic things about a supposedly progressive issue is how it has resurrected very straight, outmoded, square gender stereotypes. Boys like rough and tumble, girls like sparkles, ergo boys who like sparkles might be girls. Trans women in many cases wear highly stereotypical and even sexualised clothing from their gender identity. Feeling like a ''woman'' is an alien concept to me, as a woman.

keano_afc

beakerjoe wrote: »

From reading the article, its they dont identify as either male or female and feel for "fluid". I may be wrong, but shes a female who doesnt feel like a female or male, she feels like both.

I dont get it. Id like to talk to someone who is non-binary to pick their brains.

Someone who doesnt feel constrained by male or female gender roles. Whatever they are. I've asked and never really got an answer.

So, everyone, basically.

beakerjoe

isha wrote: »

This same question could be posed more generally re gender identity. How does anyone ''know'' they are really a girl when they are born a boy etc. Especially when it comes to ''trans kids''.

One of the truly ironic things about a supposedly progressive issue is how it has resurrected very straight, outmoded, square gender stereotypes. Boys like rough and tumble, girls like sparkles, ergo boys who like sparkles might be girls. Trans women in many cases wear highly stereotypical and even sexualised clothing from their gender identity. Feeling like a ''woman'' is an alien concept to me, as a woman.

I was born a male, so Im a male...biologically speaking. But Im a person who is unique. I like what I like and dislike what I dislike. Im still a man biologically speaking and Im comfortable being me. I dont feel like a man...I feel like me, and I happen to be male.

I can understand how people feel like they are a man/woman trapped inside the body of the opposing sex. I get it.

I dont understand binary at all. I dont see why you'd want to be called they over he or she. Whats its purpose?

Girly Gal

beakerjoe wrote: »

I was born a male, so Im a male...biologically speaking. But Im a person who is unique. I like what I like and dislike what I dislike. Im still a man biologically speaking and Im comfortable being me. I dont feel like a man...I feel like me, and I happen to be male.

I can understand how people feel like they are a man/woman trapped inside the body of the opposing sex. I get it.

I dont understand binary at all. I dont see why you'd want to be called they over he or she. Whats its purpose?

I think we're all just people, all unique, we don't go around thinking about what gender we are depending on what we're doing, at least I don't. Do non binary people transition and if so, how do they transition and what's involved?

B.A._Baracus

beakerjoe wrote: »

I believe shes a highly troubled soul, and yes my first thoughts were "this is attention seeking".

I personally dont understand Non-binary. I see it as more being awkward than anything. But they arent bothering anyone, though I imagine they will feign outrage when someone refers to them as a she/he.

I get Trans, I gets Gay, Bi.....etc, but I dont get non binary.

I agree and I don't get it either.
I also think these non-binary people dont know what it means themselves. Just some latest BS term certain people will call themselves.

But as soon as it becomes more and more mainstream then they'll come up with another term.

keano_afc

B.A._Baracus wrote: »

I agree and I don't get it either.
I also think these non-binary people dont know what it means themselves. Just some latest BS term certain people will call themselves.

But as soon as it becomes more and more mainstream then they'll come up with another term.

Its a bit of a self-own as well, ironically. The same crew who tell us there are infinite number of genders define the "genderless" as non-binary - a term that describes non-adherence to two genders, male and female.

It's really just posturing.

We all know, even the ones that advocate for multiplicities of gender etc, that there are two sexes.

Be a pansexual trisexual nonbinary all you like.

We all know you are what your biology says you are.

Your personality is your own.

Your biology isn't.

Gentlemanne

Not sure the point of the posts that are like "I don't understand nonbinary" and pleading ignorance in general. Are ye proud of not getting It? Google exists

Overheal

Deleted User wrote: »

It's really just posturing.

We all know, even the ones that advocate for multiplicities of gender etc, that there are two sexes.

Be a pansexual trisexual nonbinary all you like.

We all know you are what your biology says you are.

Your personality is your own.

Your biology isn't.

Nobody nobinary etc in your circle of life I take it?

There is not just two sexes even in the terms you're familiar with. See: hermaphroditism.

One eyed Jack

Overheal wrote: »

Nobody nobinary etc in your circle of life I take it?

I have to ask - what difference would or should that make, in your opinion?

Overheal wrote: »

There is not just two sexes even in the terms you're familiar with. See: hermaphroditism.

Hermaphroditism isn’t contrary to the concept of a binary classification of sex?

Overheal

Overheal wrote: »

Nobody nobinary etc in your circle of life I take it?

There are people I know who choose to define themselves as non binary.

Why?

volchitsa

Overheal wrote: »

There is not just two sexes even in the terms you're familiar with. See: hermaphroditism.

Hermaphrodism is not a sex, it’s a congenital defect. It no more proves that there are multiple sexes than polydactyly proves that normal humans have 6 or more fingers on their hands. Humans have 5 fingers (or rather 4+1) and any deviation from that is an anomaly.

Girly Gal

Gentlemanne wrote: »

Not sure the point of the posts that are like "I don't understand nonbinary" and pleading ignorance in general. Are ye proud of not getting It? Google exists

Not sure what the point of your post was. Most people who commented on non binary were looking to understand it more and have no doubt Googled it already themselves, but, are still none the wiser, instead of making a smart arse comment, you could have tried to provide clarity on the subject

beakerjoe

Gentlemanne wrote: »

Not sure the point of the posts that are like "I don't understand nonbinary" and pleading ignorance in general. Are ye proud of not getting It? Google exists

Ive googled it and still dont get it.

Enlighten me.

mohawk

Gentlemanne wrote: »

Not sure the point of the posts that are like "I don't understand nonbinary" and pleading ignorance in general. Are ye proud of not getting It? Google exists

Not everyone has this inbuilt feeling of gender. I am a woman but I don’t know how it feels to be a woman. I know how it feels to me. I know my sex.
In a way I can see what a young person who moves in ‘woke’/progressive circles would think they are non-binary. Especially if they really believe everyone else has a gender identity except them.

Girly Gal

mohawk wrote: »

Not everyone has this inbuilt feeling of gender. I am a woman but I don’t know how it feels to be a woman. I know how it feels to me. I know my sex.
In a way I can see what a young person who moves in ‘woke’/progressive circles would think they are non-binary. Especially if they really believe everyone else has a gender identity except them.

Does anyone really know what it feels like to be a particular gender, all we know is what it feels like to be ourselves.

Gentlemanne

Considering that your chosen username is "Girly Gal" I would imagine you do have at least some affinity for your gender?

ceadaoin.

beakerjoe wrote: »

I honestly dont know.

Shes completely woke though. She had a freaker at a Frozen Yogurt shop a few weeks back for selling "guilt free" cookies and ice cream, claiming it could trigger her eating disorder.

So that tells me enough about her mindset to know she's attention seeking.

I truly belief she has major issues mentally and is damaged from her childhood/teen Disney career.

Yeah, she's spoken about being abused and raped, suffered from eating disorders and drug addiction and had a near fatal heroin overdose not too long ago which left her with brain damage. She still drinks and uses other drugs despite acknowledging she has substance abuse issues. But no, I'm sure this latest thing is nothing to do with any of that

Girly Gal

Gentlemanne wrote: »

Considering that your chosen username is "Girly Gal" I would imagine you do have at least some affinity for your gender?

That's neither here nor there really, the topic being discussed was non binary, I've said before I don't really understand what people mean when they say that they are non binary and would love if someone could clarify this, perhaps you could enlighten me.

beakerjoe

Girly Gal wrote: »

That's neither here nor there really, the topic being discussed was non binary, I've said before I don't really understand what people mean when they say that they are non binary and would love if someone could clarify this, perhaps you could enlighten me.

They would rather have a go at you rather than explain and help provide clarity.

One eyed Jack

ceadaoin. wrote: »

Yeah, she's spoken about being abused and raped, suffered from eating disorders and drug addiction and had a near fatal heroin overdose not too long ago which left her with brain damage. She still drinks and uses other drugs despite acknowledging she has substance abuse issues. But no, I'm sure this latest thing is nothing to do with any of that

Has anyone checked for autism? It’s always autism*, unless it’s someone who’s already famous, then it’s attention-seeking.

*or if they’re a girl, check their music collection for Beyoncé.

Girly Gal wrote: »

That's neither here nor there really, the topic being discussed was non binary, I've said before I don't really understand what people mean when they say that they are non binary and would love if someone could clarify this, perhaps you could enlighten me.

They mean that they don’t identify themselves with the gender binary of masculine/feminine is all. It’s no different than feeling something isn’t right, but not having a name for it, until you come across an idea you’re comfortable identifying with which is outside the most common classification of gender which is that it is binary - masculine or feminine, and all the things that implies which just don’t feel just right.

For most people it’s not something they give much thought to because everything just feels right already, but for some people, the concept of a binary gender classification system just doesn’t feel right, and they don’t have the language in most cases to articulate just what or why either masculine or feminine doesn’t feel right to them.

"Female" says nothing about stereotypes. All it refers to is biological chromosomal composition.

You can have females who are interested in what are traditionally seen as "boy's toys" and vice versa with males.

If someone doesn't fit the stereotypical "woman", that means they are a non-feminine female. And there's nothing wrong with that. They are and will always be female. Whether they feel comfortable with traditional stereotypes of what it means to be a woman is another question. Why can't someone who is not stereotypically female simply be proud of their version of what it means to be a female? There is no rule that says "all females must have long hair and lipstick". It can be whatever you choose it to be. But to say that you do not identify with the stereotype does not mean that you can invent a new label that somehow overrides your biological sex.

For instance, if they were born 300 years ago when the stereotypical woman looked/acted differently, would they have identified otherwise? I don't think so.

Furthermore, there is no such thing as a 100% masculine man or 100% feminine woman. All of us exist on a spectrum, so to speak, of what is stereotypically masculine and stereotypically feminine. Does that mean that we are all trans-? Self-evidently not. I am not 100% stereotypically male, but that doesn't make me trans-. It simply means I'm less of a stereotype than the next male. And, again, there's nothing wrong with that.

You can have diversity in the brackets of "female" and "male".

Ultimately, we must turn to the grave. In 1,000 year's time from now, when corpses are exhumed in some archeological dig, they will know nothing about whether that person fit a socially constructed stereotype of female or male. What they will be able to detect is the biological structure and, from that, the sex of the person.

Gender does not objectively exist; it's a subjective interpretation of how males and females should act. Any anything subjective is a matter of choice - and people can make choices all day long.

But sex objectively exists - and cannot be dismissed on the basis of someone's subjective feelings about what male and female should mean - or another third-label that basically describes someone's personality.

Less of the labels, please. They are almost totally unnecessary and, in the vast majority of cases, only serve to make the person feel a bit special about themselves.

keano_afc

eskimohunt wrote: »

"Female" says nothing about stereotypes. All it refers to is biological chromosomal composition.

You can have females who are interested in what are traditionally seen as "boy's toys" and vice versa with males.

If someone doesn't fit the stereotypical "woman", that means they are a non-feminine female. And there's nothing wrong with that. They are and will always be female. Whether they feel comfortable with traditional stereotypes of what it means to be a woman is another question. Why can't someone who is not stereotypically female simply be proud of their version of what it means to be a female? There is no rule that says "all females must have long hair and lipstick". It can be whatever you choose it to be. But to say that you do not identify with the stereotype does not mean that you can invent a new label that somehow overrides your biological sex.

For instance, if they were born 300 years ago when the stereotypical woman looked/acted differently, would they have identified otherwise? I don't think so.

Furthermore, there is no such thing as a 100% masculine man or 100% feminine woman. All of us exist on a spectrum, so to speak, of what is stereotypically masculine and stereotypically feminine. Does that mean that we are all trans-? Self-evidently not. I am not 100% stereotypically male, but that doesn't make me trans-. It simply means I'm less of a stereotype than the next male. And, again, there's nothing wrong with that.

You can have diversity in the brackets of "female" and "male".

Ultimately, we must turn to the grave. In 1,000 year's time from now, when corpses are exhumed in some archeological dig, they will know nothing about whether that person fit a socially constructed stereotype of female or male. What they will be able to detect is the biological structure and, from that, the sex of the person.

Gender does not objectively exist; it's a subjective interpretation of how males and females should act. Any anything subjective is a matter of choice - and people can make choices all day long.

But sex objectively exists - and cannot be dismissed on the basis of someone's subjective feelings about what male and female should mean - or another third-label that basically describes someone's personality.

Less of the labels, please. They are almost totally unnecessary and, in the vast majority of cases, only serve to make the person feel a bit special about themselves.

Great post, touching on the reasons why the gender woo-woo brigade run away when asked to define what a woman is. They cant, because no definition exists outside of biological sex.

keano_afc

keano_afc wrote: »

Great post, touching on the reasons why the gender woo-woo brigade run away when asked to define what a woman is. They cant, because no definition exists outside of biological sex.

The question that they must be asked is, "Can you provide a non-self-referential definition of what a woman is?'.

In other words, they cannot refer to themselves / their feelings / referring to the self, when determining what should be an objective definition.

They struggle to, and there's a good reason for that.

keano_afc

eskimohunt wrote: »

The question that they must be asked is, "Can you provide a non-self-referential definition of what a woman is?'.

In other words, they cannot refer to themselves / their feelings / referring to the self, when determining what should be an objective definition.

They struggle to, and there's a good reason for that.

Indeed. "A woman is someone who identifies as a woman" is not a definition, its a circular example. I've heard this "definition" given in interviews before (Dr Haddock v Posey Parker for example) and been disappointed when the interviewer hasn't pressed for more information.

LLMMLL

The whole definition thing is nonsense.

Unfortunately most people are uneducated in how the mind works and how they understand concepts.

We very rarely learn about concepts from definitions. We learn most concepts from seeing examples, and your concept of what something is is heavily influenced by the examples you see.

Do you have kids? If so did they know what mammy or daddy was because you explained chromosomes and gametes to them? Obviously not.

And go back a few pages and you will see the dunne trying to show that definitions are simple and his concept of being heterosexual was completely in alignment with the definition, while completely mangling the definition everytime he tried to explain it.

This definitions argument is not the gotcha everyone thinks it is.

Gentlemanne

Elliot Page has released a photo of himself in togs at the pool following the reveal a few months ago that he's trans.

https://twitter.com/PopCrave/status/1396910713462001664

I always notice that the "gender critical" cohort spend 90% of their effort on transgender women. I wonder if Elliot is going to cause them to change up their strategy? Regardless, such a famous person being out, proud, and happy, could be helpful for the people who seem to be very ignorant about gender identity to realise that men who are transgender exist too.

Feminism long argued, since the 1970s, that there was no reason to assume that girls liked pink, and boys liked blue - and all the many other social constructions we could drag up. That was a very sensible move - it made logical and social sense. It meant that girls could indeed play with "boys toys" etc., and still be considered just as much a girl.

Now, the definitions are used against people.

Young boys who are playing around with pink and girl's toys etc., are now told that they might be - or are - transgender.

What it means to be a woman has gone back to Victorian times - about how women are expected to dress and behave, and so the transgender woman now immediately "feels comfortable, or identifies with" factors that are non-biological and which have been fought against since the 1970s.

Put another way, biological men are reinforcing age-old stereotypes about how women should look and act - and that is very much a regressive move, even if unintended.

Gentlemanne

LLMMLL wrote: »

Do you have kids? If so did they know what mammy or daddy was because you explained chromosomes and gametes to them? Obviously not.

In an alternate reality I feel like there would be a thread about stepfathers and stepmothers on here, and a sizable group would be advocating against their rights to raise their children - they're not real parents! they didn't contribute a cell or an egg! Biological essentialism is real and there is no nuance to human ideas or identity!!