Gender Identity in Modern Ireland (Mod warnings and Threadbanned Users in OP)

LLMMLL

LLMMLL wrote: »

We disagree on the definitions of male and female as well as man and woman so if I answer that question you will not understand the answer as you assign different meanings to the words male and female.

Well then **** it.

I define you as apologising for your ridiculous outlook.

Let's agree that I completely disagree with your mental outlook and you disagree with reason

LLMMLL

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Well then talking to you is no different to speaking with my daughter as to why she can't be a mermaid unicorn.

Go for it chief. Be the best knight you can.

My newest daughter was born two weeks ago. Funnily enough, we didn't have to wait until she told us if she was a girl or a boy.

I hope, and genuinely do so, you never have to wait until your children decide if they are male or female.

Well there’s a small chance they will tell you differently when they are older.

I hope if you do you treat them with respect and don’t give them a lecture in definitions that you can’t actually stick to yourself.

Annasopra

Deleted User wrote: »

Well then talking to you is no different to speaking with my daughter as to why she can't be a mermaid unicorn.

Go for it chief. Be the best knight you can.

My newest daughter was born two weeks ago. Funnily enough, we didn't have to wait until she told us if she was a girl or a boy.

I hope, and genuinely do so, you never have to wait until your children decide if they are male or female.

What happens if your Daughter comes out in the future as a trans male?

Annasopra

Annasopra wrote: »

What happens if your Daughter comes out in the future as a trans male?

She will always be my daughter and I hope she is always happy and I will love her as much as I love her now.

LLMMLL

LLMMLL wrote: »

Well there’s a small chance they will tell you differently when they are older.

I hope if you do you treat them with respect and don’t give them a lecture in definitions that you can’t actually stick to yourself.

Well thankfully there seems to be already a backlash.

I've taught my daughter to respect other people's foibles without forgetting that common sense and logic proves them to be wrong.

My daughter is able, at ten, to decipher the difference between sex and gender.

Sex - the reality
Gender- the make-believe

Annasopra

Annasopra wrote: »

What happens if your Daughter comes out in the future as a trans male?

Do you have kids?

LLMMLL

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Well thankfully there seems to be already a backlash.

I've taught my daughter to respect other people's foibles without forgetting that common sense and logic proves them to be wrong.

My daughter is able, at ten, to decipher the difference between sex and gender.

Sex - the reality
Gender- the make-believe

Ah wait until they’re a teenager. They probably won’t be as compliant with your beliefs then

LLMMLL

LLMMLL wrote: »

Ah wait until they’re a teenager. They probably won’t be as compliant with your beliefs then

Teens aren't normally compliant. But that's why we judge them to be still children.

Do you have kids?

LLMMLL

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Teens aren't normally compliant. But that's why we judge them to be still children.

But you seem to be using your 10 year olds opinion as somehow being supportive of your opinion on this issue.

Do you have kids?

Not that I know of.

Overheal

[Deleted User] wrote: »

She will always be my daughter and I hope she is always happy and I will love her as much as I love her now.

Even though they want to be your son, not your daughter, you would still identify them as your daughter not your son?

patnor1011

Overheal wrote: »

Even though they want to be your son, not your daughter, you would still identify them as your daughter not your son?

It is hard to say if "what we want to be" actually amounts to anything other than to satisfy yourself. If you "want to be something" it is up to you. But asking or forcing others to accept your own belief is something entirely different.

Overheal

Overheal wrote: »

Even though they want to be your son, not your daughter, you would still identify them as your daughter not your son?

Why wouldn't I?

My daughter will always be my daughter. No amount of wanting or wishing can ever change that.

How would it be any different than wanting to change her ethnicity or ability to fly?

patnor1011

patnor1011 wrote: »

It is hard to say if "what we want to be" actually amounts to anything other than to satisfy yourself. If you "want to be something" it is up to you. But asking or forcing others to accept your own belief is something entirely different.

Very good point.

It begs the question, what are the criteria needed to distinguish satisfaction through self-identification / environmental factors versus self-identification due to some inherent need to "want to be something" else. I don't think it's possible to establish those criteria.

But even if it were possible, it wouldn't validate the claims of either group. And it certainly wouldn't be grounds to dismiss biology or to force those views down the throats of other people.

I often ask the question: why do a small number of people feel it necessary to have a term for a gender?

Agender. Pangender. Astralgender.

Because it's not necessary at all.

I don't need one, for example. I simply go by my sex, which is male.

But it's hard to come to the conclusion that some people, primarily those in the lesbian and gay communities, feel it necessary to have a label almost because it's "caught on" and become fashionable in a way that it wasn't before, coupled with the very obvious conclusion that having a label and explaining how unique you are compared to everyone else is a very powerful motive for people suffering from a lack of self-esteem.

That kind of attention-grabbing can be addictive for many people.

These terms are now being used to describe one's personality or interests. The made-up pronouns that go with them are, quite frankly, embarrassing.

briangriffin

LLMMLL wrote: »

Ah wait until they’re a teenager. They probably won’t be as compliant with your beliefs then

That's OK though I'm sure they will have an excellent grasp on actual reality, so will be just fine. You have to love the scaremongering undertone of that comment and others like it here, though shalt believe or your children will suffer.
Absolute nonsense.

briangriffin

briangriffin wrote: »

That's OK though I'm sure they will have an excellent grasp on actual reality, so will be just fine. You have to love the scaremongering undertone of that comment and others like it here, though shalt believe or your children will suffer.
Absolute nonsense.

I agree.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who got that sense of it.

It's almost as if the poster is yearning for it, or who takes positive pleasure at the prospect of it happening.

eskimohunt

eskimohunt wrote: »

Very good point.

It begs the question, what are the criteria needed to distinguish satisfaction through self-identification / environmental factors versus self-identification due to some inherent need to "want to be something" else. I don't think it's possible to establish those criteria.

But even if it were possible, it wouldn't validate the claims of either group. And it certainly wouldn't be grounds to dismiss biology or to force those views down the throats of other people.

I often ask the question: why do a small number of people feel it necessary to have a term for a gender?

Agender. Pangender. Astralgender.

Because it's not necessary at all.

I don't need one, for example. I simply go by my sex, which is male.

But it's hard to come to the conclusion that some people, primarily those in the lesbian and gay communities, feel it necessary to have a label almost because it's "caught on" and become fashionable in a way that it wasn't before, coupled with the very obvious conclusion that having a label and explaining how unique you are compared to everyone else is a very powerful motive for people suffering from a lack of self-esteem.

That kind of attention-grabbing can be addictive for many people.

These terms are now being used to describe one's personality or interests. The made-up pronouns that go with them are, quite frankly, embarrassing.

The many gay people who are in my social circle and the majority of trans people who I know are indeed embarrassed by the many "cis" people who claim to allies and their defence of what they consider to be marginalised.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

The many gay people who are in my social circle and the majority of trans people who I know are indeed embarrassed by the many "cis" people who claim to allies and their defence of what they consider to be marginalised.

Yes, and literally every gay person I know - and, as a gay person myself, that's quite a lot - think these people are an extreme fringe group, too. I won't repeat the words and phrases they have used to describe this phenomenon.

But they daren't say so in many circles, due to the legitimate fear of being accused of various kinds of self-hating "phobias".

eskimohunt

eskimohunt wrote: »

Yes, and literally every gay person I know - and, as a gay person myself, that's quite a lot - think these people are an extreme fringe group, too. I won't repeat the words and phrases they have used to describe this phenomenon.

But they daren't say so in many circles, due to the legitimate fear of being accused of various kinds of self-hating "phobias".

Eewwwwww.. you're a gay!!??!!? But I was agreeing with you!!!

I was sure I was homophobic/transphobic/racist

(Note for mods...obviously a joke)

LLMMLL

briangriffin wrote: »

That's OK though I'm sure they will have an excellent grasp on actual reality, so will be just fine. You have to love the scaremongering undertone of that comment and others like it here, though shalt believe or your children will suffer.
Absolute nonsense.

That’s odd. I just pointed out the completely uncontroversial fact that a 10 year old is pretty likely to absorb their parents values with little question and that a teen is far less likely to do so.

Which makes the dunne trumpeting that his 10 year old agrees with him a bit irrelevant.

Have zero idea what you are going on about with believing something or children with suffer. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

LLMMLL

[Deleted User] wrote: »

The many gay people who are in my social circle and the majority of trans people who I know are indeed embarrassed by the many "cis" people who claim to allies and their defence of what they consider to be marginalised.

No they're not

LLMMLL

LLMMLL wrote: »

No they're not

I assure you they are, and if they weren't, they wouldn't be in my social circle.

LLMMLL

LLMMLL wrote: »

That’s odd. I just pointed out the completely uncontroversial fact that a 10 year old is pretty likely to absorb their parents values with little question and that a teen is far less likely to do so.

Which makes the dunne trumpeting that his 10 year old agrees with him a bit irrelevant.

Have zero idea what you are going on about with believing something or children with suffer. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Lol.

Trumpeting? I pointed out that my ten year old can decipher between a man and a woman.

It's not that I'm exceptionally proud of.

It's the fact that children, young children, can figure out that men and women are biologically different. Something a vocal few on here seem to have issue with.

Honestly though, trying to frame it that I was so proud of my daughter because of it?

Hahahaha

LLMMLL

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Lol.

Trumpeting? I pointed out that my ten year old can decipher between a man and a woman.

It's not that I'm exceptionally proud of.

It's the fact that children, young children, can figure out that men and women are biologically different. Something a vocal few on here seem to have issue with.

Honestly though, trying to frame it that I was so proud of my daughter because of it?

Hahahaha

Yet one post later you say that you wouldn't take a teen's opinion seriously because they're a child.

So let me get this straight. A 15 year old's opinion is too young to take seriously....

...but a 10 year old's opinion is evidence of reality...

...right.

LLMMLL

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I assure you they are, and if they weren't, they wouldn't be in my social circle.

That just exposes a bias. It's absolutely meaningless that all the gay or trans people in your life agree with you as you would not associate with those who don't.

Your post amounts to "my mates agree with me".

LLMMLL

LLMMLL wrote: »

Yet one post later you say that you wouldn't take a teen's opinion seriously because they're a child.

So let me get this straight. A 15 year old's opinion is too young to take seriously....

...but a 10 year old's opinion is evidence of reality...

...right.

Ok, let's please try to get this straight.

I said that my ten year old could tell the difference between a biological man and a woman.

This wasn't to prove any other point other than it's a simple thing to decipher.

I definitely was not holding this ten year old up as proof of a difference. I'm just saying that children, babies even, know the difference between biological men and women.

Because there is a difference.

I dont take their views seriously and wouldn't cite them as references.

Teens will obviously rebel against the norms (as is their nature) and I also don't take them as citations either.

My whole point was that children can tell if they are dealing with a biological man or woman.

But you probably shouldn't rely on them to decide for you.

If you are swayed by a ten or fifteen year old, maybe you need to do some self reflection.

Jesus wept.

LLMMLL

LLMMLL wrote: »

That just exposes a bias. It's absolutely meaningless that all the gay or trans people in your life agree with you as you would not associate with those who don't.

Your post amounts to "my mates agree with me".

My mates to agree with me. That's right.

I couldn't be friends with someone who doesn't agree with me that men and women are biologically different.

That isn't to say I don't know people and occasionally socialise with people who think otherwise.

I just don't have any respect for their views.

You however said, with some deluded authority that the gay people and trans people I class as friends were not ashamed of a certain type of "allies".

Why did you say that?

Gentlemanne

Deleted User wrote: »

The many gay people who are in my social circle and the majority of trans people who I know are indeed embarrassed by the many "cis" people who claim to allies and their defence of what they consider to be marginalised.

How often do you have conversations with your trans friends? No offense, but if I was transgendered and I knew you personally, I would absolutely not tell you.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

You however said, with some deluded authority that the gay people and trans people I class as friends were not ashamed of a certain type of "allies".

Why did you say that?

You get this kind of whitewashing a lot.

The fringe minority refuses to accept that there is a very, very large cohort of both the LGBT community and women - in fact, an increasingly growing cohort - who disagree with what is going on.

I get it all the time; it's particularly bad when you're exposed to a group, say three of these extremists who argue that being a woman "only resides in the mind".

The amount of abuse you receive is quite incredible - nothing what you see on here.

volchitsa

Gentlemanne wrote: »

How often do you have consversations with your trans friends? No offense, but if I was transgendered and I knew you personally, I would absolutely not tell you.

How often do you think someone will know a trans woman in any way well and not know they are trans? IME it's blatantly obvious. Less so for a trans man perhaps, and a beard is definitely a great way of "passing", but for a trans woman there's no equivalent.

So I don't think it's too likely that you'd need to tell anyone. They would already know.

Gentlemanne

Gentlemanne wrote: »

How often do you have conversations with your trans friends? No offense, but if I was transgendered and I knew you personally, I would absolutely not tell you.

No offense taken. And generally, you wouldn't have to tell me. It's usually very obvious.

Due to covid, I haven't seen them very often over the past year, perhaps once every four to five months.

Before that it was once every three or four weeks.

Why do you ask?