Gender Identity in Modern Ireland (Mod warnings and Threadbanned Users in OP)

km991148

Gervais08 wrote: »

You don’t know how many so you can’t say that when I believe it’s the majority then I’m wrong.

Of course I don't know how many. It's not an attack. I'm not saying you are wrong..! I was asking...

I disagree with you, but it's not a right/wrong answer. It be interesting to know the actual answer.

IAMAMORON

IAMAMORON wrote: »

What other cultures did you suggest?

Hip Hop and Travellers, of course.

WTF a private enterprise or public sector employer think their place is in educating their workforce about some bizarre beliefs is beyond me.

It’s akin to insisting you go to mass in the canteen on Friday mornings. And force the atheists to sing aloud all the hymns in the company handbook.

Nonsense is nonsense.

km991148

Gervais08 wrote: »

What ?? Why would I need to “suggest” any??

I’m talking about the fact we have a multicultural workforce (a dozen non-EU countries at last estimation) and yet these is no intercultural awareness training.

Do you think that's really needed? Do you see many problems with racism etc in your day to day (this is a separate question to seeing problems with trans community)?

IAMAMORON

Gervais08 wrote: »

What ?? Why would I need to “suggest” any??

I’m talking about the fact we have a multicultural workforce (a dozen non-EU countries at last estimation) and yet these is no intercultural awareness training.

Sorry, but in your previous post you stated that you made enquires with your employer? Which other cultures did you make enquiries about?

I suppose to re-iterate, why did you make an enquiry to the TENI in your workplace with any sort of reference to other cultures? To what end?

km991148

km991148 wrote: »

Do you think that's really needed? Do you see many problems with racism etc in your day to day (this is a separate question to seeing problems with trans community)?

As opposed to problems in your day to day regarding the ridiculous notion that gender fluidity is a real thing? Good grief.

Ten of Swords

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

Oh we are just posting stupid faces now? Great standard of arguing.

km991148 wrote: »

What can I say? Two back to back contradictory posts..

Incidentally, I don't see any need for 'arguing'.. but maybe that's what some people want?

jam_mac_jam and km991148 drop this please and let's get back on topic, thanks

Gervais08

km991148 wrote: »

Of course I don't know how many. It's not an attack. I'm not saying you are wrong..! I was asking...

I disagree with you, but it's not a right/wrong answer. It be interesting to know the actual answer.

It would, but my feeling is the vast majority do not seek counseling or similar because unlike a few years ago where the requirements for treatment or surgery was to live as the desired gender for up to three years, that has gone - as has the surgery (I understand somewhere around 90%+ do not have any physical or pharmacological change).

Now it’s just “i identity as a woman” - and that’s it.

It’s open to so much abuse and this does need yo be openly discussed.

Gervais08

IAMAMORON wrote: »

Sorry, but in your previous post you stated that you made enquires with your employer? Which other cultures did you make enquiries about?

I suppose to re-iterate, why did you make an enquiry to the TENI in your workplace with any sort of reference to other cultures? To what end?

You are not understanding.

I asked why TENI were in so often “training” us when I believed as a company we would benefit more from cultural awareness training.

Do you get it now ?

km991148

JayZeus wrote: »

As opposed to problems in your day to day regarding the ridiculous notion that gender fluidity is a real thing? Good grief.

No, not as opposed. I was curious about the specific point regarding the intercultural problems the other poster highlighted.

With regards to gender / trans.. I guess it seems reasonable that in a workplace that if you have a bunch of people on one side saying gender/ trans issues are real and a bunch on the other side flat out refusing to even acknowledge them then it makes sense to have some sort if communication about that.
Otherwise, there is just going to be argumentative stalemate.
Is it over represented? Maybe, I don't know where the op works. Is it box checking? Possibly.

Gervais08

km991148 wrote: »

Do you think that's really needed? Do you see many problems with racism etc in your day to day (this is a separate question to seeing problems with trans community)?

You also don’t understand.

I have had cultural awareness training in another job. It was invaluable.

Given the much larger company size joe and the difference in demographics it’s needed again.

Why bring up racism ?

It’s aboue how different cultures and countries are. For example one country might put if politeness nod and agree with you if you ask a task of them - it’s rude up ask a question, even if they don’t know. You need to check they understand.

IAMAMORON

Gervais08 wrote: »

You are not understanding.

I asked why TENI were in so often “training” us when I believed as a company we would benefit more from cultural awareness training.

Do you get it now ?

Not really no.

What has cultural identity got to do with the prerogative of your employer to inform staff about its inclusivity of Transgender employees?

You did reference it as such?

Gervais08

IAMAMORON wrote: »

Not really no.

What has cultural identity got to do with the prerogative of your employer to inform staff about its inclusivity of Transgender employees?

You did reference it as such?

Last interaction with you as I suspect you are missing the point deliberately.

Seven weeks out of ten there was a TENI seminar.

For such a tiny fraction of a percentage of the population it seemed overkill.

Especially given there were other areas that training could be given.

km991148

Gervais08 wrote: »

You also don’t understand.

I have had cultural awareness training in another job. It was invaluable.

Given the much larger company size joe and the difference in demographics it’s needed again.

Why bring up racism ?

It’s aboue how different cultures and countries are. For example one country might put if politeness nod and agree with you if you ask a task of them - it’s rude up ask a question, even if they don’t know. You need to check they understand.

When I'm tempted to say 'you don't understand' I often wonder if what I mean is 'sorry, I didn't explain that very well'.

I didn't explain very well either. I said 'racism Etc'. Multicultural issues could range from the benign to the downright racist. You answered that it was on the lesser end of the scale. Thank you for that.

Gervais08

km991148 wrote: »

When I'm tempted to say 'you don't understand' I often wonder if what I mean is 'sorry, I didn't explain that very well'.

I didn't explain very well either. I said 'racism Etc'. Multicultural issues could range from the benign to the downright racist. You answered that it was on the lesser end of the scale. Thank you for that.

And yes, apologies - I should have phrased it that I may not have clarified enough.

Absolutely - it’s to head off any issues before they become a problem.

Often you’re agreeing with the person but your ways of expressing the points seem at odds.

The awareness session I had was an eye opener, much more useful than explaining 103 genders.

IAMAMORON

Gervais08 wrote: »

Last interaction with you as I suspect you are missing the point deliberately.

Seven weeks out of ten there was a TENI seminar.

For such a tiny fraction of a percentage of the population it seemed overkill.

Especially given there were other areas that training could be given.

Ok, so finally you are admitting that you don't think that Transsexual rights within your workplace are all that relevant, as opposed to the rights of other employees and that furthermore, you saw no issue with challenging your employer over this?

Are you surprised with their reaction, when they challenged you over your opinion on this? Did you use the word "overkill" with them when you did?

km991148

Gervais08 wrote: »

And yes, apologies - I should have phrased it that I may not have clarified enough.

Absolutely - it’s to head off any issues before they become a problem.

Often you’re agreeing with the person but your ways of expressing the points seem at odds.

The awareness session I had was an eye opener, much more useful than explaining 103 genders.

Was it 7 whole seminars for the whole company, or was it 7 available but drop into any one of them?

I mean I can't really see the harm tbh. Could there be other training for other stuff, sure, but there are far worse things to sit through (anyone heard of eco bricks - a bank I worked in had that one!)

Gatling

Gervais08 wrote: »

The awareness session I had was an eye opener, much more useful than explaining 103 genders.

Is there any members of staff openly trans .


Seems ott for a work place to have that much based around trans inclusiveness if nobody is trans in the work place, seems to be very random ,

Gervais08

Gatling wrote: »

Is there any members of staff openly trans .


Seems ott for a work place to have that much based around trans inclusiveness if nobody is trans in the work place, seems to be very random ,

No, none!! This is the thing.

It’s purely to get a badge they can put on all our emails.

Gatling

Gervais08 wrote: »

No, none!! This is the thing.

It’s purely to get a badge they can put on all our emails.

Rediculous waste of money .

I can see it now , fantastic elephant inclusivity training for when elephants join the work force .

Junkyard Tom

MoonUnit75 wrote: »

Trans rights activists are equally vulnerable and vocal enough to be exploited as a shield against criticism of intersectionality, relativism, postmodernism, Marxism etc.

There's a industry of dimwits on YouTurd, Twatter, and Facebucket who moan about conspiratorial Marxism and Postmodernism and how they're being silenced, you can't hear yourself for the loud roaring of 'I'm being silenced' everywhere on social media.

What is the goal of postmodernists and marxists? Is it to destroy western civilisation or some other utter bollocks?

Rubberchikken

What does it say about people as a whole that there needs to be training on cultural differences or gender whatever differences.

Once in the workplace, how difficult is it to do your job and just act like an actual adult?

If then said adults can't behave as such, a proper and meaninful HR Dept that actually have the stones to deal with issues raised seems to me to be the next logical thing.

Rodin

Rubberchikken wrote: »

What does it say about people as a whole that there needs to be training on cultural differences or gender whatever differences.

Once in the workplace, how difficult is it to do your job and just act like an actual adult?

If then said adults can't behave as such, a proper and meaninful HR Dept that actually have the stones to deal with issues raised seems to me to be the next logical thing.

Adults are supposed to believe in logic and reasoning. It's fundamental to most jobs. Yet we're being told that when it comes to sex, a male can become a female... and if we object we're labelled a heretic like Galileo who tried to convince those of the day that the earth was round.

I genuinely feel we're regressing as a society where the straw chewing, pitchfork waving yokels get to dictate facts.

Progressive me hoop.

TomTomTim

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

There's a industry of dimwits on YouTurd, Twatter, and Facebucket who moan about conspiratorial Marxism and Postmodernism and how they're being silenced, you can't hear yourself for the loud roaring of 'I'm being silenced' everywhere on social media.

What is the goal of postmodernists and marxists? Is it to destroy western civilisation or some other utter bollocks?

With such creative labeling, those dimwits better watch out for your intellectual prowess.

km991148

Rodin wrote: »

Adults are supposed to believe in logic and reasoning. It's fundamental to most jobs. Yet we're being told that when it comes to sex, a male can become a female... and if we object we're labelled a heretic like Galileo who tried to convince those of the day that the earth was round.

I genuinely feel we're regressing as a society where the straw chewing, pitchfork waving yokels get to dictate facts.

Progressive me hoop.

I don't think any of what you said is happening.

I also think talking about being an adult etc could be seen as quite a simplistic way to belittle any conversation on a topic.

People have different views. That's fine by me.

mohawk

Gervais08 wrote: »

One thing I don’t get is the power of the trans lobby - mainly online like but they’ve got people fired etc; yet transgender people comprise such a small fraction of a percentage of the population.

They indeed are a powerful lobby.
The GRA draft bill as first proposed did not contain Self-ID. It was pressure from lobby groups that had it changed from to remove requirement to have a medical diagnosis and replaced with self-Id. Doctors specialising in Gender Identity issues ended up walking away from the consultation process, because they were not listened to.

km991148

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

There's a industry of dimwits on YouTurd, Twatter, and Facebucket who moan about conspiratorial Marxism and Postmodernism and how they're being silenced, you can't hear yourself for the loud roaring of 'I'm being silenced' everywhere on social media.

What is the goal of postmodernists and marxists? Is it to destroy western civilisation or some other utter bollocks?

Besides, a byproduct of the very nature of YouTube, Facebook and Twitter business model does encourage polarised views and echo chambers. Including a cohort of groups counter outraging at the opposite of what you say.

Anyone that goes near any of these platforms (I include Google as a whole, not just YouTube) is being subtly, but continuously forced into deeper and deeper bubbles of confirmation bias.

Gruffalux

km991148 wrote: »

I don't think any of what you said is happening.

I also think talking about being an adult etc could be seen as quite a simplistic way to belittle any conversation on a topic.

People have different views. That's fine by me.

This might interest you. You would have to read the whole thing.
https://quillette.com/2020/11/07/gender-activists-are-trying-to-cancel-my-book-why-is-silicon-valley-helping-them/

Abigail Shrier seems like a regular nice lady.
Since the attempts to remove her POV outlined in this article in addition Target (which is the 8th largest retailer in USA ) removed her book from its sales list. Due to an outcry it was reinstated.
Also a very progressive professor Grace Lavery, a professor of English at the University of California, Berkeley, went further, tweeting: “I DO encourage followers to steal Abigail Shrier’s book and burn it on a pyre.”

Chase Strangio of ACLU said it was the hill they would die on to have the book banned.

The book is a piece by an investigative journalist wondering about the absolutely massive increase in teenage girls irreversibly damaging themselves with hormonal drugs and surgery.
Surely an enquiry like that is allowed to exist? And why is the response from the "left" that it must be banned, burned and Shrier must be removed from all modern media platforms?

Note one modern platform - Go Fund Me - presently has 35000 go fund me campaigns for young girls and young women to fund their mastectomies. If it had 35000 campaigns for young boys and men to have phallectomies would there be a reaction? I think so.

Rodin

km991148 wrote: »

I don't think any of what you said is happening.

I also think talking about being an adult etc could be seen as quite a simplistic way to belittle any conversation on a topic.

People have different views. That's fine by me.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion but not all opinions are equal.

Gatling

Rodin wrote: »

Everyone is entitled to their opinion but not all opinions are equal.

Unfortunately we a tiny cohort who have being held up as completely untouchable and beyond any reproach ,
And if you don't subscribe to their abusive ideology your then deemed a legitimate target to be shamed , tarnished and sacked from your employment ,
It's disgusting that it's allowed to happen and will continue to do so .

It's nothing to do with Equal rights no one group should have separate rights above others just because they self identify as something and it can be anything , banning books , videos , discussions , sacking people for not believing someone else ideology it's wrong and it's a violation of rights

km991148

Gruffalux wrote: »

This might interest you. You would have to read the whole thing.
https://quillette.com/2020/11/07/gender-activists-are-trying-to-cancel-my-book-why-is-silicon-valley-helping-them/

Abigail Shrier seems like a regular nice lady.
Since the attempts to remove her POV outlined in this article in addition Target (which is the 8th largest retailer in USA ) removed her book from its sales list. Due to an outcry it was reinstated.
Also a very progressive professor Grace Lavery, a professor of English at the University of California, Berkeley, went further, tweeting: “I DO encourage followers to steal Abigail Shrier’s book and burn it on a pyre.”

Chase Strangio of ACLU said it was the hill they would die on to have the book banned.

The book is a piece by an investigative journalist wondering about the absolutely massive increase in teenage girls irreversibly damaging themselves with hormonal drugs and surgery.
Surely an enquiry like that is allowed to exist? And why is the response from the "left" that it must be banned, burned and Shrier must be removed from all modern media platforms?

Note one modern platform - Go Fund Me - presently has 35000 go fund me campaigns for young girls and young women to fund their mastectomies. If it had 35000 campaigns for young boys and men to have phallectomies would there be a reaction? I think so.

I'm not denying you have a point here. And to comment on this specific point (about the author), I would need to read more than this article (which on the face of it is unlikely to be unbiased, because the author has something to sell..)

Regarding go fund me.. this might be the first time that I have seen something resembling a trend on this thread and could be explored further all right.
Comparing to the opposite (young boys doing the opposite) isn't really a like for like comparison due to all sorts if other social factors.
Don't see this as an attack on your post, just trying to view this objectively. I appreciate the info and time you took to post (unlike other posters posts which tell people to be an adult etc).