Gender Identity in Modern Ireland (Mod warnings and Threadbanned Users in OP)

LLMMLL

LLMMLL wrote: »

I wouldn’t tell you what your sexuality is.

You're happy to refer to people as cis even when they tell you they don't want to be and then drag threads into the ****ter. Funny that.

Omackeral

Omackeral wrote: »

The thing is, I'm asking as reasonably as possible. Not looking for these gotcha! moments. Want to see the trans lobby's outlook on it. Trying to understand. But I'm just being met with ''oh that's not for me to say'' or skepticsm. It#s tough to get on board with anything then.

Here's the thing, as with the right wingers who'll be on in a couple of hours in an ideal world there'd be no need to engage with them. Most gays and trans don't identify with the nonsense. Much like Latinx is a made-up term that most Latinas and Latinos in the US find ridiculous. It's mostly just neuroticism which has been allowed to grow (fester) into having a vaguely academic legitimacy.

(Sidenote: Anyone who watches Your Mom's House will know Robert Paul Champagne, the "Try it out" guy. I watched Dr. Drew visiting him earlier and had a chuckle at his disgust about Desmond the drag queen and how he has no time for the "new" "gay" scene. Eye-opening to see someone that far beyond the norm to be calling out some of the **** happening now.)

LLMMLL

volchitsa wrote: »

I didn't say you did, but Donald Trump certainly did. As did many news media.

It's not made up, she said more than once that her native American heritage was important to her - which, yes, means she "felt" native American. And yes, she wanted to be considered to be one, that's what she said. Instead, she was mocked and criticised for not being "really" native American, or not native American "enough".

Saying something is important to you does not mean you “feel” you are that thing.

I see no relation between Elizabeth Warren and trans issues.

LLMMLL

[Deleted User] wrote: »

You're happy to refer to people as cis even when they tell you they don't want to be and then drag threads into the ****ter. Funny that.

I am happy to refer to people as cis. You’re right.

LLMMLL

Omackeral wrote: »

Apologies if this is crude, just want to wrap my head around this.

If last week a guy put his penis in Ellen Page's vagina would it be considered a homosexual act? Can I say his vagina this week? Is that the correct terminology?

Elliott Page. Yes you can say his vagina. I don’t really have an opinion on whether it’s a homosexual act. If the guy considers it a homosexual act I’d be like “ok cool”. If he doesn’t consider it a homosexual act I’d also be like “ok cool”. Why do you feel the need to obsessively define it. What difference does it make to you.

Omackeral

LLMMLL wrote: »

I am happy to refer to people as cis. You’re right.

LLMMLL wrote: »

Elliott Page.

Ellen. What's good for the goose and all that.

Omackeral

LLMMLL wrote: »

Elliott Page. Yes you can say his vagina.

I don't think that's scientifically accurate at all.

LLMMLL wrote: »

I don’t really have an opinion on whether it’s a homosexual act. If the guy considers it a homosexual act I’d be like “ok cool”. If he doesn’t consider it a homosexual act I’d also be like “ok cool”.

So it's whatever you want it to be. That's what you're saying essentially.

LLMMLL wrote: »

Why do you feel the need to obsessively define it. What difference does it make to you.

I'm asking questions but being hit with ''what difference does it make to you?''. You're coming off as very defensive. How am I being obsessive, I'm trying to see it from another point of view. It's easy to see why people get fed up with all of this at times.

LLMMLL

Omackeral wrote: »

I don't think that's scientifically accurate at all.



So it's whatever you want it to be. That's what you're saying essentially.



I'm asking questions but being hit with ''what difference does it make to you?''. You're coming off as very defensive. How am I being obsessive, I'm trying to see it from another point of view. It's easy to see why people get fed up with all of this at times.

No it’s not whatever I want it to be. I didn’t mention me at all. I mentioned the guy who was having sex and how he viewed it.

I am not making any claim about the term “homosexual act”. It’s all you.

CtevenSrowder

LLMMLL wrote: »

I am happy to refer to people as cis. You’re right.

Typical double standard. Respect as ever is a one way avenue.

LLMMLL

LLMMLL wrote: »

Elliott Page. Yes you can say his vagina. I don’t really have an opinion on whether it’s a homosexual act. If the guy considers it a homosexual act I’d be like “ok cool”. If he doesn’t consider it a homosexual act I’d also be like “ok cool”. Why do you feel the need to obsessively define it. What difference does it make to you.

Because it does matter.

A man having sex with a woman is not a homosexual act. It is the opposite. To say "ok cool" and accept sexual intercourse between two members of the opposite sex is now homosexual on the whim of one person's dysphoria helps nobody and at best it is simply lying.

LLMMLL

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Because it does matter.

A man having sex with a woman is not a homosexual act. It is the opposite. To say "ok cool" and accept sexual intercourse between two members of the opposite sex is now homosexual on the whim of one person's dysphoria helps nobody and at best it is simply lying.

I fail to see any consequence apart from your discomfort. Why does it have to help somebody to name a sexual act. If a cis man has sex with a cis woman who does it help to call it a “heterosexual act”?

LLMMLL

LLMMLL wrote: »

I fail to see any consequence apart from your discomfort. Why does it have to help somebody to name a sexual act. If a cis man has sex with a cis woman who does it help to call it a “heterosexual act”?

If a man has sex with a woman and anyone calls it homosexual, it is wrong.

I'm not uncomfortable. Pointing out lies and inaccuracies is not being uncomfortable.

Normalising the erasure of definitions of the two sexes is a consequence. Men and women are not interchangeable.

LLMMLL

[Deleted User] wrote: »

If a man has sex with a woman and anyone calls it homosexual, it is wrong.

I'm not uncomfortable. Pointing out lies and inaccuracies is not being uncomfortable.

Normalising the erasure of definitions of the two sexes is a consequence. Men and women are not interchangeable.

Nobody has claimed they are interchangeable. There are no lies or inaccuracies. One poster is obsessively asking about Elliott Page’s sex life. As we have no info about this nobody has told a lie. It’s all made up argument with zero consequences.

LLMMLL

LLMMLL wrote: »

Nobody has claimed they are interchangeable. There are no lies or inaccuracies. One poster is obsessively asking about Elliott Page’s sex life. As we have no info about this nobody has told a lie. It’s all made up argument with zero consequences.

It isn't an argument. It is people asking you questions about an invented scenario to gauge your answers in order to know where you stand.

It's quite obvious where you stand. You refuse to answer any questions that expose your hypocrisy and dismiss them as "gotchas"

There is no gotcha. You are just unwilling to admit that it is just as absurd for someone to believe Ellen page is now a man called Elliott as it would be to believe that she is now a Chinese 7foot tall 12 year old.

They are both patently false statements.

Gatling

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

Its upto you to define yourself. Nothing to do with me.

But you did say earlier in the thread if a man self identifies as a woman and and was in a relationship with a woman she would go from a straight man to a lesbian

Gatling

On the page one very similar to Sam Smith ,one minute your a gay pop star,then queer and then your trans with pronoun's .
It's like a constant need to be affirmed by others to increase their egos.

It's like the moment they come out as gay oh your so amazing your a hero you came out , Everyone is happy and people move on ,then it's oh I've come out as queer it's so hard living like this ,oh your so amazing and so strong for coming out ,then it's oh I'm coming out as trans it's been so hard living as a celebrity ,oh you poor thing but your so amazing and so strong .

How many times can you come out for a bit of attention

LLMMLL

[Deleted User] wrote: »

It isn't an argument. It is people asking you questions about an invented scenario to gauge your answers in order to know where you stand.

It's quite obvious where you stand. You refuse to answer any questions that expose your hypocrisy and dismiss them as "gotchas"

There is no gotcha. You are just unwilling to admit that it is just as absurd for someone to believe Ellen page is now a man called Elliott as it would be to believe that she is now a Chinese 7foot tall 12 year old.

They are both patently false statements.

It is a gotcha. Nobody identifies as a different height. If there were a significant number of people who did, then it could be investigated and we could form opinions about it. But there isn’t.

TRAs never claimed “anyone who says the words “I identify as....” are those things they identify as”.

So if you want to use random made up identifications with helicopters or unicorns or heights then it is up to YOU to provide evidence that they have anything n common with trans issues.

It is not up to TRAs to defend made up scenarios they never expressed an opinion on.

RonaVirus

If a man can get fake boobs and a fake vagina, can a woman get a fake penis?

Smacruairi

LLMMLL wrote: »

It is a gotcha. Nobody identifies as a different height. If there were a significant number of people who did, then it could be investigated and we could form opinions about it. But there isn’t.
.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/the-northerner/2013/dec/05/northern-lass-online-dating-tinder-height-difference

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/army-fell-short-on-height-test-vlpjxvdfg


One social setting, one professional.

One eyed Jack

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Because it does matter.

A man having sex with a woman is not a homosexual act. It is the opposite. To say "ok cool" and accept sexual intercourse between two members of the opposite sex is now homosexual on the whim of one person's dysphoria helps nobody and at best it is simply lying.

It matters to whom though? According to some people it doesn’t matter, other people it does. I can think of plenty of sexual acts which are common to both heterosexual and homosexual relationships, and to be perfectly honest I really don’t care about how Elliot Page and their wife define themselves, their relationship, or whatever they get up to in the privacy of their own domicile, or hotel room, or public bathroom, or anywhere else really.

Posters here getting their knickers in a bunch over “How do I define myself now? How do I define other people now?”, it’s obvious they’re being disingenuous and aren’t actually struggling, they’ll still define themselves and others in ways that suit them, as they did before. Elliot Pages announcement doesn’t change anything for them. It’s obvious they’re only pretending it does and that they’re severely distressed by this development.

LLMMLL

Smacruairi wrote: »

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/the-northerner/2013/dec/05/northern-lass-online-dating-tinder-height-difference

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/army-fell-short-on-height-test-vlpjxvdfg


One social setting, one professional.

Neither of those are people “identifying as” a different height.

Thanks for posting them. It just shows the weakness of the made up gotcha arguments. They never have anything in common with trans identification.

Smacruairi

LLMMLL wrote: »

Neither of those are people “identifying as” a different height.

Thanks for posting them. It just shows the weakness of the made up gotcha arguments. They never have anything in common with trans identification.

What's the difference between identifying as something, and claiming youre something.

Are you identifying as someone who is right when you clearly have asked for examples and been hysterically shown up for the nonsense your spout.

LLMMLL

LLMMLL wrote: »

Neither of those are people “identifying as” a different height.

Thanks for posting them. It just shows the weakness of the made up gotcha arguments. They never have anything in common with trans identification.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2018/nov/08/dutch-man-69-starts-legal-fight-to-identify-as-20-years-younger

It has everything in common with transgenderism. They want to be recognised as something they aren't.

Tired Gardener

LLMMLL wrote: »

The only one of those that actually happens is race. The others are silly gotchas that don’t exist.

And people do define their race all the time. For example, children with white and black parents will often identify as one or the other. Not mixed race.

Actually, Race is a social construct. It isn't based in science.

Domain, Kingdom, Phylum, Class, Order, Family, Genus, Species, and subspecies. (Might have some of the placements wrong), but there is no such thing as Race. We have very small variations towards different climates and adaptations to the Suns proximity to Earth.

volchitsa

One eyed Jack wrote: »

It matters to whom though? According to some people it doesn’t matter, other people it does.

It matters when lesbians are being called transphobes because they don't want to have sex with someone who has a penis but who calls themselves a woman.

Obviously it doesn't matter to you, but that's not the point.

Gatling

volchitsa wrote: »

It matters when lesbians are being called transphobes because they don't want to have sex with someone who has a penis but who calls themselves a woman.

Obviously it doesn't matter to you, but that's not the point.

It's like being stuck on an endless roundabout you won't get a straight answer it's all but ,but ,but

One eyed Jack

volchitsa wrote: »

It matters when lesbians are being called transphobes because they don't want to have sex with someone who has a penis but who calls themselves a woman.

Obviously it doesn't matter to you, but that's not the point.

That IS the point? The dunne says it matters. It matters to him, it matters to you for a completely unrelated reason but that’s entirely your own business, whatever you need to tell yourself I’m cool with that too.

Lesbians being called transphobes because they don’t want to have sex with an idiot is an entirely different matter, whether he has a penis or not, whether they call themselves a woman or not. There’s plenty of evidence suggests that lesbians aren’t being corralled by that gaslighting nonsense.

It would matter to me if someone commits sexual assault, it matters to me when people are called names and humiliated and gaslighted, but not knowing what to call Elliot Page now or thinking Elliot Pages declaration has any impact on the complainants life? That’s a minor inconvenience, nothing more. Their blowing something out of proportion is an indication that they have mental health issues which would illicit my sympathies, but not to the degree that I think they have a reasonable argument to force anyone else to comply with their worldview.

LLMMLL

[Deleted User] wrote: »

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2018/nov/08/dutch-man-69-starts-legal-fight-to-identify-as-20-years-younger

It has everything in common with transgenderism. They want to be recognised as something they aren't.

The only thing it has in common with trans issues is that the man involved has claimed it has something to do with trans issues.

We have no idea what the individual believes. He could in fact be protesting trans issues.

I have zero opinion on this man’s claims. They have nothing to do with trans people.

As I’ve said. No TRA has ever made the claim that someone who identifies as X is X, where X can be anything.

Until you can show a link between trans identification and this individual then it’s completely irrelevant.

LLMMLL

Tired Gardener wrote: »

Actually, Race is a social construct. It isn't based in science.

Domain, Kingdom, Phylum, Class, Order, Family, Genus, Species, and subspecies. (Might have some of the placements wrong), but there is no such thing as Race. We have very small variations towards different climates and adaptations to the Suns proximity to Earth.

Where did I say race was based in science?

LLMMLL

LLMMLL wrote: »

The only thing it has in common with trans issues is that the man involved has claimed it has something to do with trans issues.

We have no idea what the individual believes. He could in fact be protesting trans issues.

I have zero opinion on this man’s claims. They have nothing to do with trans people.

As I’ve said. No TRA has ever made the claim that someone who identifies as X is X, where X can be anything.

Until you can show a link between trans identification and this individual then it’s completely irrelevant.

No it isn't.

A man claims he feels younger than he is and wants to be legally recognised as that.

Trans people feel they are the opposite sex and want to be legally recognised as that.

That's the link.

Both are looking to be recognised as something they aren't.