Gender Identity in Modern Ireland (Mod warnings and Threadbanned Users in OP)

LLMMLL

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

Yeah, I’ve said before in another thread that I am okay with being examined by either male or female doctors. That is mostly true but then I recalled that there was one time I did ask to be examined by a woman. What if that woman was male? A hospital patient is in a vulnerable position and should not be made to feel more uncomfortable than they already do. Would a person be made to feel guilty for not validating the identity of the doctor, even subtly?

I think there's a lot of silliness around the doctor argument when you look at it in practice.

You assume you can tell when a woman is trans by looking at them. Chances are you have already been examined by a trans doctor (ok chances are low but could have happened).

It also begs the question will you assume a cis woman doctor with stereotypically masculine physical features is a trans woman and refuse to be seen by them. If you're unsure will you ask them?

Gervais08

IAMAMORON wrote: »

Men and transgendered persons can also be the victim of rape.

Are you honestly saying that only female doctors can treat rape victims?

If that is what the woman wants, then yes absolutely.

Gatling

IAMAMORON wrote: »

Are you honestly saying that only female doctors can treat rape victims?

Seems to be standard procedure .

IAMAMORON

Gervais08 wrote: »

If that is what the woman wants, then yes absolutely.

That is not what I asked.

Stop deflecting please. What has rape got to do with a transgendered discussion for starters?

_Kaiser_

My thoughts on this topic are simple..

- A trans male/female is not the same as the "real thing" for want of a better term

- Trans men/women on dating sites should absolutely disclose that upfront

- Any ideology pushing on young children, or stuff like hormone blockers etc is the equivalent of child abuse and should be dealt with accordingly. Once someone is an adult and fully understanding of the consequences of these things then work away

- You can believe and see yourself as whatever you want and that's fine - so long as you understand that not everyone will agree with your view and that is perfectly acceptable too. So long as they are polite and tolerant that's enough

- Pandering like special bathrooms, sports, or stuff like the aforementioned prison situation are examples of ideology running into the brick wall of reality. In cases like that reality must always triumph

- This is not America and we need to stop trying to transpose their identity politics and cultural/societal issues into a country like Ireland where they have no place

IAMAMORON

Gatling wrote: »

Seems to be standard procedure .

where ?

Gervais08

IAMAMORON wrote: »

That is not what I asked.

Stop deflecting please. What has rape got to do with a transgendered discussion for starters?

I’m not deflecting - there was a question asked about rights.

I answered (you can read it above).

No deflection, you just don’t like the answer as it doesn’t fit into your agenda.

jam_mac_jam

IAMAMORON wrote: »

Men and transgendered persons can also be the victim of rape.

Are you honestly saying that only female doctors can treat rape victims?

If that's what the rape victim wants then yes. That would also apply to a man who was raped.

I would think the rape victim's feelings at that point would be more important than the doctors.

km991148

Gervais08 wrote: »

I’m not deflecting - there was a question asked about rights.

I answered (you can read it above).

No deflection, you just don’t like the answer as it doesn’t fit into your agenda.

Not everyone has an "agenda".. (agender?? :pac:)

Gervais08

IAMAMORON wrote: »

where ?

You really don’t get that female rape victims aren’t usually surrounded by the sex that has just assisted them ?

You must get that much ???

Rodin

LLMMLL wrote: »

I think there's a lot of silliness around the doctor argument when you look at it in practice.

You assume you can tell when a woman is trans by looking at them. Chances are you have already been examined by a trans doctor (ok chances are low but could have happened).

It also begs the question will you assume a cis woman doctor with stereotypically masculine physical features is a trans woman and refuse to be seen by them. If you're unsure will you ask them?

Chances are the poster has never even met a transperson never mind had one as a doctor.
The discussion around the topic is completely at odds with its prevalence.

ingalway

WhenPigsCry wrote: »

That's just prison. A cis woman convicted of assaulting other women will be in a woman's prison. Why is that an acceptable level of risk for the other inmates?

Because males offenders, no matter how they identity, still pose a far more significant threat to female prisoners due to their sheer biological strength and their potential to rape.

95% of women in jail are committed for crimes such as shoplifting, failure to pay fines or handling stolen goods. ALMOST ALL WOMEN in Irish prisons are serving sentences for committing petty crimes, not for sexual and violent crimes.
In 2019 185 males were sentenced for sexual violence, 2 women.

Gervais08

LLMMLL wrote: »

I think there's a lot of silliness around the doctor argument when you look at it in practice.

You assume you can tell when a woman is trans by looking at them. Chances are you have already been examined by a trans doctor (ok chances are low but could have happened).

It also begs the question will you assume a cis woman doctor with stereotypically masculine physical features is a trans woman and refuse to be seen by them. If you're unsure will you ask them?

“Silliness” ?

Around not wanting a violated woman to be examined a man ?

Horrific.

Rodin

ingalway wrote: »

Because males offenders, no matter how they identity, still pose a far more significant threat to female prisoners due to their sheer biological strength and their potential to rape.

95% of women in jail are committed for crimes such as shoplifting, failure to pay fines or handling stolen goods. ALMOST ALL WOMEN in Irish prisons are serving sentences for committing petty crimes, not for sexual and violent crimes.
In 2019 185 males were sentenced for sexual violence, 2 women.

Only females should be in a female prison.
See? It's easy.

Galwayguy35

People can identify as Barney the Dinosaur if it makes them happy, no skin off my nose.

Rodin

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

People can identify as Barney the Dinosaur if it makes them happy, no skin off my nose.

They can say what they like, but I don't have to agree that they are Barney...because they have none of the chatacteristic features of same.

ingalway

IAMAMORON wrote: »

What I meant is that your general tone is insinuating that non transgenders are somewhat different to transgenders and that coincidentally they have a universal right to decide on their future? I am not just talking about toilet facilities here either by the way, I think there are bigger issues at hand, particularly where it comes to gender identification and a humans' rights.

Am I misinterpreting your tone in this instance? Please advise.

What human rights do transgender people NOT have compared to other people?

ingalway

Rodin wrote: »

Only females should be in a female prison.
See? It's easy.

Yes, only biological females, 100%

km991148

ingalway wrote: »

Because males offenders, no matter how they identity, still pose a far more significant threat to female prisoners due to their sheer biological strength and their potential to rape.

95% of women in jail are committed for crimes such as shoplifting, failure to pay fines or handling stolen goods. ALMOST ALL WOMEN in Irish prisons are serving sentences for committing petty crimes, not for sexual and violent crimes.
In 2019 185 males were sentenced for sexual violence, 2 women.

Surely the prison situation has to be taken on a case by case basis.

At one end of the extreme you have someone convicted of a crime (sexual or otherwise) and literally the next day decide to identify as a gender more appropriate to the opposite sex.
At the other end, someone who has done so for years (taken hormones the lot).

In the male to female case, surely then the strength argument etc doesn't apply (in the later case)?

I would have thought this much is obvious, hence why I was talking about the difference between individual cases and generalisations earlier.

IAMAMORON

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

According to gender theory if you identify as a man or woman than you are one. So if you are entitled to all the rights of that gender. You are entitled to participate in the sport of your gender for example.

Can you give me an example of any sports where this is currently happening?

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

According to the sex based rights idea you are entitled to rights based on the sex you are rather than your gender. So if you are a natal man you shouldn't be entitled to participate in the sport of the gender you are but rather the sex you are. Regardless of where on gender.

Again this appears highly hypothetical, are their any actual examples of this happening?

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

So it's not seeing somebody's rights as less then you, you are seeing it infringing on your sex based rights.

If you see it based on gender then this doesn't make sense because your sex is less important than your gender. And you are discriminating against that person.

NO, I massively disagree, everyone's human rights are unique and need to be respected. That is self explanatory and not open for discussion. One particular humans' notion about how the world should is not more important than anothers' , no matter what sex or gender preference they are. It is a completely separate matter. Every human being is entitled to rights.

LLMMLL

Gervais08 wrote: »

“Silliness” ?

Around not wanting a violated woman to be examined a man ?

Horrific.

A trans woman doctor is a woman.

And a violated woman Is free to choose her doctor. None of them actually care whether their doctor is trans or not so it's not actually going to matter

IAMAMORON

ingalway wrote: »

What human rights do transgender people NOT have compared to other people?

I am not aware of any to be honest?

Do you know of any?

jam_mac_jam

IAMAMORON wrote: »

Can you give me an example of any sports where this is currently happening?



Again this appears highly hypothetical, are their any actual examples of this happening?



NO, I massively disagree, everyone's human rights are unique and need to be respected. That is self explanatory and not open for discussion. One particular humans' notion about how the world should is not more important than anothers' , no matter what sex or gender preference they are. It is a completely separate matter. Every human being is entitled to rights.

How is anything I have said there lead you to believe that any human is not entitled to human rights?

I'm not saying anyone is not entitled to anything I am explaining where the difference between seeing it by gender or sex causes a conflict.

For sports examples there are loads. Not remotely hypothetical and a real issue that I did not personally invent.

I was using it as an example of how it is seen differently based on sex or gender.

Gruffalux

Rodin wrote: »

Chances are the poster has never even met a transperson never mind had one as a doctor.
The discussion around the topic is completely at odds with its prevalence.

Given the lack of prevalence one would have to note the excessive power invested to transform laws, language, science, medicine, social provisions, sports, academic discourse, corporate ethics etc on its behalf, no?
Menstruators. People with a cervix. Chest feeders. 2 male sex offenders in a female jail in Ireland. 100 plus Irish children already treated at Tavistock, whose practices are being subject to review and scrutiny by the UK government and media. Recent discussion re policy in Irish govt to enable even younger people to self ID without parental consent or medical oversight. And so on.

Gatling

LLMMLL wrote: »

And a violated woman Is free to choose her doctor. None of them actually care whether their doctor is trans or not so it's not actually going to matter

Are you actually for real .

A woman who's been raped by a man is not going to care if man who self identifies as a woman does an rape examination .

GTF

IAMAMORON

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

For sports examples there are loads. Not remotely hypothetical and a real issue that I did not personally invent.

Give me "loads" of examples of transgenders in sports.

I have all night.

MynamesColm

Gervais08 wrote: »

“Silliness” ?

Around not wanting a violated woman to be examined a man ?

Horrific.

I agree it is silliness. Surely the important thing is that the victim is treated by a doctor who is able to make the victim feel as comfortable as possible.

Gervais08

LLMMLL wrote: »

A trans woman doctor is a woman.

And a violated woman Is free to choose her doctor. None of them actually care whether their doctor is trans or not so it's not actually going to matter

Oh of course you know all rape victims and can speak for them all

jam_mac_jam

IAMAMORON wrote: »

Give me "loads" of examples of transgenders in sports.

I have all night.

I don't. Look it up yourself. Start with Fallon fox who laughed about smashing a woman's skull.

There are many more. Much less extreme.

There's a whole thread on it already.

Gruffalux

IAMAMORON wrote: »

Give me "loads" of examples of transgenders in sports.

I have all night.

I mentioned a list earlier. Google will also help you since you have all night.