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Gender Identity in Modern Ireland (Mod warnings and Threadbanned Users in OP)

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    #2732
    suicide_circus
    Registered Users Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    An awful lot of human behaviour boils down to boners.


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    #2733
    LLMMLL
    Registered Users Posts: 4,590 ✭✭✭LLMMLL


    suicide_circus wrote: »
    An awful lot of human behaviour boils down to boners.

    Speak for yourself


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    #2734
    AMKC
    Registered Users Posts: 16,128 ✭✭✭✭AMKC
    Ms


    suicide_circus wrote: »
    Is it permissable to dismiss transgenderism as a social construct in the same way as gender can be? If so, perhaps the nomenclature will revert to "transsexual". Interesting.

    No it is not.

    Transsexual is not the same as Transgender.

    A Transgender person is a person born into the wrong body and assigned the wrong sex from birth.
    They are not some social construct that someone can just decide either does or does not exist.

    Live long and Prosper

    Peace and long life.



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    #2735
    suicide_circus
    Registered Users Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    LLMMLL wrote: »
    Speak for yourself

    Sure, most animals myself included, are highly subconsciously influenced by boners.


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    #2736
    jaxxx
    Registered Users Posts: 3,230 ✭✭✭jaxxx


    Necro wrote: »
    Mod:

    Threadbanned
    Non-mod:
    Quelle surprise, someone who dares have an opinion that dares argue against this insanity is silenced yet again. Pathetic. Can you honestly sit there and say with 100% certainty that there aren't people who identify as trans that actually do not have gender dysphoria? A minority yes, but there are those that do and you cannot pretend otherwise.
    AMKC wrote: »
    No it is not.

    Transsexual is not the same as Transgender.

    A Transgender person is a person born into the wrong body and assigned the wrong sex from birth.
    They are not some social construct that someone can just decide either does or does not exist.

    If gender is a social construct, then transgenderism too has got to be a social construct.. .. .. Let that sink in.


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    #2737
    suicide_circus
    Registered Users Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    AMKC wrote: »
    No it is not.

    Transsexual is not the same as Transgender.

    A Transgender person is a person born into the wrong body and assigned the wrong sex from birth.
    They are not some social construct that someone can just decide either does or does not exist.

    Interesting. Can you expand on the "born in the wrong body" part? What does that mean?


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    #2738
    Gruffalux
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,023 ✭✭✭Gruffalux


    AMKC wrote: »
    No it is not.

    Transsexual is not the same as Transgender.

    A Transgender person is a person born into the wrong body and assigned the wrong sex from birth.
    They are not some social construct that someone can just decide either does or does not exist.

    Nobody is ever born in the wrong body. That is a completely metaphysical claim.

    People may be gender dysphoric. That is not born in the wrong body.

    If gender being a social construct is at the root of deconstructionist gender theory ideology - which it is - then the implication is also true re transgender as a social construct. Awkward, but true, within the parameters of the theory.


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    #2739
    CtevenSrowder
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,909 ✭✭✭CtevenSrowder


    AMKC wrote: »
    No it is not.

    Transsexual is not the same as Transgender.

    A Transgender person is a person born into the wrong body and assigned the wrong sex from birth.
    They are not some social construct that someone can just decide either does or does not exist.

    You are not assigned sex. Sex is not a social construct. It is observed.

    Also, would it not be a transsexual that is born into the 'wrong' body i.e. the wrong sex, have you not got it backwards?


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    #2740
    LLMMLL
    Registered Users Posts: 4,590 ✭✭✭LLMMLL


    suicide_circus wrote: »
    Sure, most animals myself included, are highly subconsciously influenced by boners.

    Did you choose your career based on a boner? Do.you love your mother because of a boner? Do you make decisions on following covid restrictions based on a boner?

    Or was your comment solely designed to dehumanise trans people.


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    #2741
    jaxxx
    Registered Users Posts: 3,230 ✭✭✭jaxxx


    LLMMLL wrote: »
    Did you choose your career based on a boner? Do.you love your mother because of a boner? Do you make decisions on following covid restrictions based on a boner?

    Or was your comment solely designed to dehumanise trans people.


    Talks about people/animals being horny = dehumanising trans people.. .. ..


    The math doesn't work out there.

    Or was your comment the usual drivel because you're incapable of logical thought? Fail to see how an animal's (which we are btw) horniness has sweet F all to do with a) career b) mother love c) COVID...


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    #2742
    CtevenSrowder
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,909 ✭✭✭CtevenSrowder


    jaxxx wrote: »
    Talks about people/animals being horny = dehumanising trans people.. .. ..


    The math doesn't work out there.

    Or was your comment the usual drivel because you're incapable of logical thought?

    It's just the usual hyperbole employed to deflect deflect deflect, as what can one do otherwise, when their position has again and again been shown to be so logically incoherent that they hardly understand what they believe themselves; having to invent terms like 'trans-female', employ talk of 'exemplars' or incessantly label people a TERF in order to try and make some remnants of a point.


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    #2743
    suicide_circus
    Registered Users Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    LLMMLL wrote: »
    Did you choose your career based on a boner? Do.you love your mother because of a boner? Do you make decisions on following covid restrictions based on a boner?

    Or was your comment solely designed to dehumanise trans people.

    Yes. No. Sometimes.

    Your trojan efforts to halt all critical debate on this issue by pulling the hyperbolic "dehumanise" card doesn't work on me.


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    #2744
    LLMMLL
    Registered Users Posts: 4,590 ✭✭✭LLMMLL


    jaxxx wrote: »
    Talks about people/animals being horny = dehumanising trans people.. .. ..


    The math doesn't work out there.

    Or was your comment the usual drivel because you're incapable of logical thought? Fail to see how an animal's (which we are btw) horniness has sweet F all to do with a) career b) mother love c) COVID...

    An animals horniness has nothing to do with these things. Most decisions we make are not based on horniness. The claim that trans people make their decisions based on horniness dehumanises them. It's basically claiming if they just had a good **** they would change their mind.


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    #2745
    CtevenSrowder
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,909 ✭✭✭CtevenSrowder


    LLMMLL wrote: »
    An animals horniness has nothing to do with these things. Most decisions we make are not based on horniness. The claim that trans people make their decisions based on horniness dehumanises them. It's basically claiming if they just had a good **** they would change their mind.

    Which isn't de-humanisation.


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    #2746
    jaxxx
    Registered Users Posts: 3,230 ✭✭✭jaxxx


    CtevenSrowder wrote: »
    It's just the usual hyperbole employed to deflect deflect deflect, as what can one do otherwise, when their position has again and again been shown to be so logically incoherent that they hardly understand what they believe themselves; having to invent terms like 'trans-female', employ talk of 'exemplars' or incessantly label people a TERF in order to try and make some remnants of a point.


    Proof:

    LLMMLL wrote: »
    An animals horniness has nothing to do with these things. Most decisions we make are not based on horniness. The claim that trans people make their decisions based on horniness dehumanises them. It's basically claiming if they just had a good **** they would change their mind.


    CASE CLOSED! Thank you and good night!


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    #2747
    Gatling
    Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    LLMMLL wrote: »
    Of course I can't prove that.

    Thought so .

    Thanks
    360_F_102352090_ie3kLjDIvgrT1sxVDknWCUh8PxgMYzM7.jpg




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    #2748
    Necro
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 51,575 Mod ✭✭✭✭Necro


    jaxxx wrote: »
    Talks about people/animals being horny = dehumanising trans people.. .. ..


    The math doesn't work out there.

    Or was your comment the usual drivel because you're incapable of logical thought? Fail to see how an animal's (which we are btw) horniness has sweet F all to do with a) career b) mother love c) COVID...

    Mod:

    Don't post in this thread again.

    And to clarify, it's simply because you cannot be civil in your posting, nothing to do with your opinion on the topic.


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    #2749
    LLMMLL
    Registered Users Posts: 4,590 ✭✭✭LLMMLL


    Gatling wrote: »
    Thought so .

    Thanks

    You're welcome. Now can you post any evidence that the majority of trans women are driven by autogynephilia?

    Still waiting for Gruffalux to provide it....


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    #2750
    CtevenSrowder
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,909 ✭✭✭CtevenSrowder


    LLMMLL wrote: »
    You're welcome. Now can you post any evidence that the majority of trans women are driven by autogynephilia?

    Still waiting for Gruffalux to provide it....

    Who said it was a majority? I cannot find were Gruffalox said it was a majority.


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    #2751
    Girly Gal
    Registered Users Posts: 2,896 ✭✭✭Girly Gal


    LLMMLL wrote: »
    You're welcome. Now can you post any evidence that the majority of trans women are driven by autogynephilia?

    Still waiting for Gruffalux to provide it....

    Don't think Gruffalux said the majority of transwomen are driven by autogynophelia, but, that it's an element for some transwomen,there is a difference.


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    #2752
    CtevenSrowder
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,909 ✭✭✭CtevenSrowder


    Girly Gal wrote: »
    Don't think Gruffalux said the majority of transwomen are driven by autogynophelia, but, that it's an element for some transwomen,there is a difference.

    So just more hyperbole and mis-quoting, then. I can also not find any talk of a majority.


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    #2753
    LLMMLL
    Registered Users Posts: 4,590 ✭✭✭LLMMLL


    Girly Gal wrote: »
    Don't think Gruffalux said the majority of transwomen are driven by autogynophelia, but, that it's an element for some transwomen,there is a difference.

    She said they can be classified as either autogynephilic or gay. So the majority of trans women are just gay?


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    #2754
    CtevenSrowder
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,909 ✭✭✭CtevenSrowder


    LLMMLL wrote: »
    She said they can be classified as either autogynephilic or gay. So the majority of trans women are just gay?

    So not the majority, nobody said majority. You are just making things up as per usual. 'Can be' doesn't mean all or a majority. Just that some people can be.


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    #2755
    Mic 1972
    Registered Users Posts: 3,213 ✭✭✭Mic 1972


    LLMMLL wrote: »
    She said they can be classified as either autogynephilic or gay. So the majority of trans women are just gay?


    probably not far from the truth


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    #2756
    Gruffalux
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,023 ✭✭✭Gruffalux


    LLMMLL wrote: »
    She said they can be classified as either autogynephilic or gay. So the majority of trans women are just gay?

    Attracted to men is the research finding. I am going to presume that is still the meaning of gay for people in male bodies.

    But I know you think that if a trans woman is attracted to men they are heterosexual. Which you are entitled to believe.

    By the way you can google autogynephelia.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blanchard%27s_transsexualism_typology


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    #2757
    LLMMLL
    Registered Users Posts: 4,590 ✭✭✭LLMMLL


    Gruffalux wrote: »
    Attracted to men is the research finding. I am going to presume that is still the meaning of gay for people in male bodies.

    But I know you think that if a trans woman is attracted to men they are heterosexual. Which you are entitled to believe.

    By the way you can google autogynephelia.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blanchard%27s_transsexualism_typology

    Yes they are heterosexual.

    I'm reading all about autogynephilia. Seems to be based on questions such as "have you ever been aroused by putting in lingerie?". Also seems no cis female control group has ever been used in studies. I'm sure even those with no scientific background can see the issue with stigmatising questions like that. As if a cis woman has never been turned on by lingerie. I guess we can't expect much from 1980s sexuality research.....


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    #2758
    Gruffalux
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,023 ✭✭✭Gruffalux


    LLMMLL wrote: »
    Yes they are heterosexual.

    I'm reading all about autogynephilia. Seems to be based on questions such as "have you ever been aroused by putting in lingerie?". Also seems no cis female control group has ever been used in studies. I'm sure even those with no scientific background can see the issue with stigmatising questions like that. As if a cis woman has never been turned on by lingerie. I guess we can't expect much from 1980s sexuality research.....

    You are the one who is stigmatising it. Right from the off.
    People get turned on by all sorts of things. Of course natal women get turned on by themselves in their lingerie, and by their own bodies and the feeling of inhabiting their bodies...I would have thought that was a given.
    What the research finds is that a certain significant percentage of transgender male to females also get turned on by imagining themselves as women. There is nothing wrong with that.
    Here is a link to a video of a lovely young chap talking about how he gets turned on by viewing himself as a woman. I don't quite know why you are having an obvious ewww reaction to the idea.

    https://twitter.com/JamesCantorPhD/status/1258767573237354504?s=20


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    #2759
    LLMMLL
    Registered Users Posts: 4,590 ✭✭✭LLMMLL


    Gruffalux wrote: »
    You are the one who is stigmatising it. Right from the off.
    People get turned on by all sorts of things. Of course natal women get turned on by themselves in their lingerie, and by their own bodies and the feeling of inhabiting their bodies...I would have thought that was a given.
    What the research finds is that a certain significant percentage of transgender male to females also get turned on by imagining themselves as women. There is nothing wrong with that.
    Here is a link to a video of a lovely young chap talking about how he gets turned on by viewing himself as a woman. I don't quite know why you are having an obvious ewww reaction to the idea.

    https://twitter.com/JamesCantorPhD/status/1258767573237354504?s=20

    I never stigmatised or portrayed it in any way. You have completely misunderstood me. I have said that reducing trans identity to either being gay or autogynephilic is stigmatising and dehumanising. Similar to how gay people were stigmatised with dodgy psychological theories in the past.

    If you're saying both trans and cis women (and men) can be autogynephilic I've no issue with that.


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    #2760
    Gruffalux
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,023 ✭✭✭Gruffalux


    LLMMLL wrote: »
    I never stigmatised or portrayed it in any way. You have completely misunderstood me. I have said that reducing trans identity to either being gay or autogynephilic is stigmatising and dehumanising. Similar to how gay people were stigmatised with dodgy psychological theories in the past.

    If you're saying both trans and cis women (and men) can be autogynephilic I've no issue with that.

    It is not stigmatising, dehumanising or nasty. You can throw as many insults at the theory and the expression of it as you wish, but it is none of those things.
    It also has nothing to do with homosexuality in that it is a typology of transsexualism.
    And since you are concerned for gay people and constantly trying to edge in some kind of ''bigotry equivalence'' or mirroring of the rights movement - there are very many gay people who dislike the attraction to same SEX part being removed from homosexuality. You do not have concerns for those people, it seems.

    Interesting article posted today from a gay man who was a TRA and became gender theory critical. One of the reasons being -
    Sexuality however is rooted in sex, specifically phenotype. When all the gender presentation is stripped back and I see the naked form, my sexuality is interested in the sex characteristics of males, and this innate homosexuality is now under attack from trans rights activists.

    Again and again I see sexuality reduced to a “genital preference”, with people saying that my insistence for male genitals is “exclusionary” to trans men, transphobic, and thus bigoted. Because they insist trans men are men, if I don’t accept them as such and overcome my “genital preference”, I am bigoted and need to consider accepting men regardless of their appearance.

    This is awfully and horrifically familiar. It is a new form of conversion therapy and while I have personally felt it (and then gone into full attack mode on twitter, which isn’t healthy), I can now see that lesbians are ground zero for this. Below are examples of the homophobic comments now made acceptable by this new ideology:

    The Boxer Ceiling [/URL](warning, upsetting comments)
    https://uncommongroundmedia.com/how-i-became-a-trans-rights-activist-then-turned-gender-critical/


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    #2761
    LLMMLL
    Registered Users Posts: 4,590 ✭✭✭LLMMLL


    Gruffalux wrote: »
    It is not stigmatising, dehumanising or nasty. You can throw as many insults at the theory and the expression of it as you wish, but it is none of those things.
    It also has nothing to do with homosexuality in that it is a typology of transsexualism.
    And since you are concerned for gay people and constantly trying to edge in some kind of ''bigotry equivalence'' or mirroring of the rights movement - there are very many gay people who dislike the attraction to same SEX part being removed from homosexuality. You do not have concerns for those people, it seems.

    Interesting article posted today from a gay man who was a TRA and became gender theory critical. One of the reasons being -


    https://uncommongroundmedia.com/how-i-became-a-trans-rights-activist-then-turned-gender-critical/

    It is definitely stigmatising and nasty. It's an attempt to dehumanise trans people and reduce their identity to a fetish.

    Although the more I read of the theory it clearly applies to both cis and trans people. Lots of cis women are turned on by their own bodies and the idea of their body in lingerie etc. Same with cis men and their bodies. I thinj the focus on trans people who experience this is just dodgy 1980s research and it's modern evangelizers probably don't even believe it. But they'll use anything to portray trans people as fetish chasers.

    And you are 100% right. I do not care what that gay man claims to be experiencing. As a gay man active in the gay community I know that the only place he's been told he's tranaphobic or a penis fetishist is because he went looking for it on Twitter. There is no way he has encountered this as part of the Irish gay dating scene. Purest nonsense.


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