Gender Identity in Modern Ireland (Mod warnings and Threadbanned Users in OP)

...Ghost...

Gatling wrote: »

Where do you think they should serve time .

Men's prison or womens prison .

If your junk hangs out, you go to a mens prison. If it's tucked in, a womens prison. Same goes for transgender....whatever junk you have determines the prison you go to if sentenced to serve time.

The amount of absolute sh1te out there is dizzying. Why do some people have such a problem agreeing to basic biology? Trans aside, if you were born a male, but identify as a female and keep the salami, then sorry, you're a male. Likewise for those born as females.

My opinion is that people who identify as the opposite sex of their physical biology is mentally ill and/or seeking attention. Those enabling it are even worse and in some cases, criminal. Encouraging a child to undergo gender reassignment surgery is criminal and sick. I remember seeing a case of a 12 year old born male child in the UK undergoing the initial changes via hormone treatment. Anyone who encourages a child to do this is sick in the head; much sicker than the child about to undergo a life changing surgery they may well regret.

Gatling

LLMMLL wrote: »

They are kept separate from the other women prisoners. I wonder why nobody ever mentions this.....

Because women in said prison face the threat of violence and rape by men who self identify as a person who's not a male

LLMMLL

Gatling wrote: »

Because women in said prison face the threat of violence and rape by men who self identify as a person who's not a male

No they don't. They are kept separate.

BattleCorp

LLMMLL wrote: »

Because they are women.

Not in my book they aren't.

ingalway

LLMMLL wrote: »

They are kept separate from the other women prisoners. I wonder why nobody ever mentions this.....

And why is that? Is it because they are violent males with the potential to rape and even kill women? No woman would stand a chance if they chose to attack them. Also, extra staff have to be assigned to them 24/7. Resources are scarce enough without this nonsense.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

ingalway wrote: »

And why is that? Is it because they are violent males with the potential to rape and even kill women? No woman would stand a chance if they chose to attack them. Also, extra staff have to be assigned to them 24/7. Resources are scarce enough without this nonsense.

Indeed. That sounds like a precarious situation to me. As a female inmate, I’d be uneasy. I hate that we’ll probably have to wait for something bad to happen before something is done. Instead of trying to prevent based on what we know about male and female criminality and physiology.

Gatling

LLMMLL wrote: »

No they don't.

They do ,

I don't believe we have laws to Keep an individual confined in isolation indefinitely .

I believe it breaches multiple human rights laws

One eyed Jack

ingalway wrote: »

And why is that? Is it because they are violent males with the potential to rape and even kill women? No woman would stand a chance if they chose to attack them. Also, extra staff have to be assigned to them 24/7. Resources are scarce enough without this nonsense.

And people might be inclined to take claims about the welfare of inmates in prison more seriously if they weren’t already aware that it’s just more clutching at straws to portray a narrative which isn’t actually borne out by the facts. If one is concerned about incidents where women are victims of sexual violence and exploitation in prison, they would be aware that the vast majority of perpetrators of sexual violence and exploitation of women in prison, are other prison inmates and staff.

The number of inmates who are transgender who commit sexual violence and exploitation of women in prison are tiny by comparison, you can literally count them on one hand, as opposed to the number of inmates who are actually committing sexual violence and exploitation against other women inmates.

That’s notwithstanding the fact that if one were truly interested in perpetuating sexual violence and exploitation, being sent to prison is the last outcome they want, they’re not committing crimes with the intent of getting into prison so they can commit more crimes!

LLMMLL

ingalway wrote: »

And why is that? Is it because they are violent males with the potential to rape and even kill women? No woman would stand a chance if they chose to attack them. Also, extra staff have to be assigned to them 24/7. Resources are scarce enough without this nonsense.

They are violent individuals. I wouldn't expose anyone to them, and this is exactly the issue with Grufallux's "third place" option.

Barbie Kardashian is an extremely violent and disturbed individual. She should be kept separate from everyone no matter what prison she is in. Do you think it would be fair to house even a strong cis man in a cell with someone who has ripped off another person's eyelid? I know I wouldn't go to sleep with her around.

LLMMLL

Gatling wrote: »

They do ,

I don't believe we have laws to Keep an individual confined in isolation indefinitely .

I believe it breaches multiple human rights laws

All reports say they have no access to other female inmates. If you have another report that contradicts this please present it. Otherwise stop posting false information.

Gatling

LLMMLL wrote: »

. Otherwise stop posting false information.

What's part is false information exactly

One eyed Jack

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

Indeed. That sounds like a precarious situation to me. As a female inmate, I’d be uneasy. I hate that we’ll probably have to wait for something bad to happen before something is done. Instead of trying to prevent based on what we know about male and female criminality and physiology.

Bad things happen in women’s prisons every day? What were you doing about it before now?


Sexual abuse is 'part and parcel' of prison life, with staff harassing female inmates in exchange for drugs, cigarettes and even early release, according to former prisoners.


Female ex-inmates talk about prison abuse

ingalway

LLMMLL wrote: »

All reports say they have no access to other female inmates. If you have another report that contradicts this please present it. Otherwise stop posting false information.

If they are in such isolation then why do they even need to be in a female prison? If they were in a male prison at least there is no potential opportunity to access vulnerable females and extra staff are not needed to mollycoddle them.

LLMMLL

Gatling wrote: »

What's part is false information exactly

Your claim that women in the prison face the threat of rape from trans inmates.

And your claim that they must have access to other women inmates based on what you believe are potential human rights violations.

How do you think someone who is kept separate from other women inmates at all times is a rape threat

LLMMLL

ingalway wrote: »

If they are in such isolation then why do they even need to be in a female prison? If they were in a male prison at least there is no potential opportunity to access vulnerable females and extra staff are not needed to mollycoddle them.

They have a legal right to be housed in a womens prison and they have availed of that right. What you perceive of as their needs doesn't really come into it.

And again, they have no potential opportunity to access other women inmates.

Gatling

LLMMLL wrote: »

Your claim that women in the prison face the threat of rape from trans inmates.

And what are you they don't despite several cases of if happening recently .

Ehhh ....

You cannot be held indefinitely in isolation dude what part is difficult to understand ,
If there is a threat of rape by a self identifying man in a women's prison surely the obvious route is to remove that threat

LLMMLL

Gatling wrote: »

And what are you they don't despite several cases of if happening recently .

Ehhh ....

I don't even understand this sentence

Gatling

LLMMLL wrote: »

I don't even understand this sentence

I cannot understand why ...

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

ingalway wrote: »

If they are in such isolation then why do they even need to be in a female prison? If they were in a male prison at least there is no potential opportunity to access vulnerable females and extra staff are not needed to mollycoddle them.

Yeah, it seems to me that the safety of transgender women is taken deadly seriously whilst citing concerns for the safety of women is dismissed as bigotry or hysteria.

If a transgender prisoner can be so successfully isolated in the female estate, then why not in the male estate? That way, if security drops or is breached, all present are in the same biological strength bracket.

LLMMLL

Gatling wrote: »

And what are you they don't despite several cases of if happening recently .

Ehhh ....

You cannot be held indefinitely in isolation dude what part is difficult to understand ,
If there is a threat of rape by a self identifying man in a women's prison surely the obvious route is to remove that threat

Nobody said they were in isolation. Two individuals are kept separate at all times from the other female inmates. There is no suggestion of human rights breaches.

If the information we have confirmed (that they are kept separate at all times) is valued less than made up supposition (that there is a human rights breach and they will be given access to other female prisoners) then you have to wonder what kind of bias is at play here.

LLMMLL

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

Yeah, it seems to me that the safety of transgender women is taken deadly seriously whilst citing concerns for the safety of women is dismissed as bigotry or hysteria.

If a transgender prisoner can be so successfully isolated in the female estate, then why not in the male estate? That way, if security drops or is breached, all present are in the same biological strength bracket.

Decisions should not be based on unrealistic propositions.

Why not separate 60kg males from 120kg males? Why not build an extra wall around all current prisons in case the first wall is breached? What if a security lapse allows a rapist escape a male prison putting the lives of women living in the area at risk?

At some point a level of security has to deemed enough. These women have a legal right to be housed in a women's prison. There is security in place to make sure they don't have access to other women inmates.

Gatling

LLMMLL wrote: »

Nobody said they were in isolation

Two individuals are kept separate at all times from the other female inmates.

Dude that's isolation

LLMMLL

I'm curious as to this idea that even housing trans women and cis women in the same prison and kept separately is a danger.

You all seem very concerned about this.

But when we discussed JK Rowlings visit to Saughton prison nobody seemed all that concerned at a prison that houses both cis male and cis female prisoners.......

From Wikipedia; Edinburgh receives prisoners from the courts in Edinburgh, the Lothians and the Borders. The prison holds adult male and no longer holds under-21 prisoners (YOs) and also convicted prisoners serving under four years. The prison also holds a female population in its Ratho hall.

Only an issue when it comes to trans women it seems

ingalway

LLMMLL wrote: »

They have a legal right to be housed in a womens prison and they have availed of that right. What you perceive of as their needs doesn't really come into it.

And again, they have no potential opportunity to access other women inmates.

It's a bad day for justice, more so for women, when legal right amounts to no more than signing a form to declare you have magically changed sex.

Would you equally defend the right of a person to sign a form to say they were really born of a different race? Assigned Caucasian at birth - why would that be any less worthy in intersectional identity politics? Surely it should be Observed Caucasian at birth and that anyone should be free to later identify into their true race identity and not be restricted by what those ill informed doctors forced on you.

jam_mac_jam

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Bad things happen in women’s prisons every day? What were you doing about it before now?


Sexual abuse is 'part and parcel' of prison life, with staff harassing female inmates in exchange for drugs, cigarettes and even early release, according to former prisoners.


Female ex-inmates talk about prison abuse

That's a really depressing article. I had no idea it was so widespread with staff. You would assume with other inmates but not staff.

That's awful.

LLMMLL

Gatling wrote: »

Dude that's isolation

You may consider it isolation but it is not solitary confinement. There is nothing to indicate these women are in a situation which breaches their human rights.

Can you reference anything other than your own opinion on the meaning of the word isolation that would back up your claims?

Gatling

LLMMLL wrote: »

The prison also holds a female population in its Ratho hall.

So does mount joy .

But there not Housed together . separate parts of the prison ,how difficult it that to understand

LLMMLL

ingalway wrote: »

It's a bad day for justice, more so for women, when legal right amounts to no more than signing a form to declare you have magically changed sex.

Would you equally defend the right of a person to sign a form to say they were really born of a different race? Assigned Caucasian at birth - why would that be any less worthy in intersectional identity politics? Surely it should be Observed Caucasian at birth and that anyone should be free to later identify into their true race identity and not be restricted by what those ill informed doctors forced on you.

Where is race recorded at birth? What legal rights would be gained or lost by signing a form that declared your race? It would be quite bizarre for someone to legally change their race when there's no legal conception of race.

LLMMLL

Gatling wrote: »

So does mount joy .

But there not Housed together . separate parts of the prison ,how difficult it that to understand

What do you think they mean in the reports when they say the trans inantes are kept separate. Do you think it's a layer of clingfilm between the trans and cis inmates?.......

Gatling

LLMMLL wrote: »

What do you think they mean in the reports when they say the trans inantes are kept separate..

Isolated