Living Under Regulation

greysides

This thread was part of a discussion on another thread where it was off-topic. Posts have been copied to here and the discussion can continue.

Dickie10

i find saturdays and sundays unbelievably grim the last 3 weeks, seems like your in a never ending cycle of work, between farm and work pressure its horrible , had bord bia audit last friday and pictures wouldnt all load into phone for the audit , they guy put it back til monday should be ok, but i was really in a tough place friday, your man on the phone putting pressure on that i should have had it done, was very very close to telling him to shove it up his arse, i think he could hear by voice being dry and kind of at breaking point and gave me a chance havent felt that way since i was at school and in trouble, horrible feeling really dontt want to feel that way again.

Water John

Best wishes Dickie, many of these guys and gals are more aware of the stress farmers are under. I am forever grateful to one Dept of Ag official who helped me greatly in bad times.
Have no hesitation in letting the guy know that you're under stress, it will actually put him on the backfoot a bit, he won't quite know how to handle it. Better option than giving him a bollocking, though I know the urge.

Ard_MC

Dickie10 wrote: »

i find saturdays and sundays unbelievably grim the last 3 weeks, seems like your in a never ending cycle of work, between farm and work pressure its horrible , had bord bia audit last friday and pictures wouldnt all load into phone for the audit , they guy put it back til monday should be ok, but i was really in a tough place friday, your man on the phone putting pressure on that i should have had it done, was very very close to telling him to shove it up his arse, i think he could hear by voice being dry and kind of at breaking point and gave me a chance havent felt that way since i was at school and in trouble, horrible feeling really dontt want to feel that way again.

Firstly Dickie, dont forget bord bia is there by your invite only. Tell him politely to burger off until your ready. You have nothing to fear about them. 10 cent bonus isn't worth stress. If its stress to you now.

And I am the same as you lately. Every day is the same. But then I go for a walk about with the dogs and think how lucky I am compared to being stuck in an apartment in Dublin or wherever like many others.

Your not alone. Any time let rip here if need be.

whelan2

The photos wouldn't upload for me either towards the end of uploading them. I left it for a while and then they did. I dont know if it was the crappy internet connection or what. The weather, dark evenings and covid isn't helping either

Timmaay

Ask him if you can email or send as a photo text message to him either, and let him upload them directly himself.

NcdJd

Another trick on uploading photos is to take a screen shot of it on your phone rather than uploading the original. Go into your gallery and display the photo you want to upload, then tip your finger on it to display it as a full screen photo, then you should have a button combo that will screenshot it depending on your phone make. So a photo with a size of 4.78MBs becomes 780KBs.

Upload speeds with the various broadband providers is a fraction of your download bandwidth speed. For instance if your getting 30 - 40 meg per second on your download speed, on your upload it is usually 1.5 - 2 megs per second.

Anyway good to see that people are not afraid to let off some steam, we all need to do it every so often.. Fair play to you Dickie, hopefully 2021 will be a little better for youself and the rest of us.

ruwithme

Your last paragraph there ncd re letting off steam is so true.

We all need to better recognise when someone else is having a blow out &allow them to have it rather than always challenging someone on same.

Often hear people on liveline &you may not agree with them,but all their doing is having a blow out. Let them at it joe.

(I know liveline torture)

Have an inspection this week, it's sure not helping me look on the bright side of life. Mate of mine had a GLAS inspection during the week, in his own words "it's no feckin way to live". The faster I can get away from CAP the happier I'll be. Herself made the comment tonight she's never seen an industry with such mental health issues, mostly over fear of losing income.

wrangler

Deleted User wrote: »

Have an inspection this week, it's sure not helping me look on the bright side of life. Mate of mine had a GLAS inspection during the week, in his own words "it's no feckin way to live". The faster I can get away from CAP the happier I'll be. Herself made the comment tonight she's never seen an industry with such mental health issues, mostly over fear of losing income.

I'm surprised at that, I thought you guys were really going to benefit from CAP 2013. We've experience d savage cuts to bring up the low subsidies
Has your subsidies not improved a lot since 2013, wasn't everyone supposed to be up to 200/ha by now,

GNWoodd

The sooner farmers get paid for what we produce and move away from subsidies the better .
Get paid for what we produce today
Nobody should have to comply with hundreds of pages of regulations and be at the mercy of any public servant
The farm organisations and politicians have a lot to answer for when every decision eroded our independence.

_Brian

GNWoodd wrote: »

Nobody should have to comply with hundreds of pages of regulations and be at the mercy of any public servant .

Truth is this has only come late to farms.
Show me one job that’s not dictated by pages of regulation??

Food production is a highly regulated business for everyone involved.

wrangler

_Brian wrote: »

Truth is this has only come late to farms.
Show me one job that’s not dictated by pages of regulation??

Food production is a highly regulated business for everyone involved.

We'll always have to follow regulations, don't and the punishment will be fines not penalties, one thing worse than abiding by regulation to get subsidies is abiding with regulations without subsidies.
The days of farmers pollution is over

GNWoodd

There was more money made from farming and more viable farms in this country before any of the bullxxxx regulations .
The countryside has been regulated into near extinction

wrangler

GNWoodd wrote: »

There was more money made from farming and more viable farms in this country before any of the bullxxxx regulations .
The countryside has been regulated into near extinction

Different world now, everyone has has to work harder and cheaper now, feck we used have a few good car industries here and even a wool and flax...... can't go back

_Brian

GNWoodd wrote: »

There was more money made from farming and more viable farms in this country before any of the bullxxxx regulations .
The countryside has been regulated into near extinction

Truth is it’s the drive down the high units low margin route that Irish ag is being driven that is hurting. There’s been little effort to create a unique brand from beef similar to how successful kerrygold butter has gained.

Rather beef is a commodity business to supply cheap raw material to a cartel to become wealthy on.

Deeec

There is huge pressure on farmers now that just wasnt there years ago. Farmers are now expected to do a huge amount of paperwork which they are possibly not trained to do. My own father was reared to be a farmer and left school at a young age. It falls on me to do all the paperwork because he is not able to do it. If I wasnt willing to help I dont know how he would manage.

I feel so sorry for farmers on their own who have nobody to help out with all of this. I work as an accountant and see even young farmers struggle with paperwork, online applications, banking requirements, email etc - it is a huge problem. Farmers love farming but department requirements are making it a nightmare for many. Even the ag food website is a nightmare to navigate if you are unclear on what you are doing. I can see how depression can form as a result of this pressure.

_Brian

Deeec wrote: »

There is huge pressure on farmers now that just wasnt there years ago. Farmers are now expected to do a huge amount of paperwork which they are possibly not trained to do. My own father was reared to be a farmer and left school at a young age. It falls on me to do all the paperwork because he is not able to do it. If I wasnt willing to help I dont know how he would manage.

I feel so sorry for farmers on their own who have nobody to help out with all of this. I work as an accountant and see even young farmers struggle with paperwork, online applications, banking requirements, email etc - it is a huge problem. Farmers love farming but department requirements are making it a nightmare for many. Even the ag food website is a nightmare to navigate if you are unclear on what you are doing. I can see how depression can form as a result of this pressure.

The era of hyper traceability and accountability has caught up on these lads. You can’t be supplying into the food chain any more without being embroiled in paperwork and systems.
You could get rid of cap but the traceability paperwork will still be needed. Stroke of a pen brings in something else. Didn’t I see recently where EPA licensing is being muted for Dairy farms now, doesn’t surprise me. Any other industry storing tens of thousands of gallons of pollutants and spreading them on the land along with other chemicals have to have EPA licensing applied.

Deeec

_Brian wrote: »

The era of hyper traceability and accountability has caught up on these lads. You can’t be supplying into the food chain any more without being embroiled in paperwork and systems.
You could get rid of cap but the traceability paperwork will still be needed. Stroke of a pen brings in something else. Didn’t I see recently where EPA licensing is being muted for Dairy farms now, doesn’t surprise me. Any other industry storing tens of thousands of gallons of pollutants and spreading them on the land along with other chemicals have to have EPA licensing applied.

I agree that the systems need to be in place. But I see even young lads unable to cope with the requirements. The reason they find it hard to cope is maybe poor education, lack of computer experience, nobody showed them what to do etc. Many young farmers dont realise that farming isnt just farming - it now has to be run as a business like any other business.

green daries

_Brian wrote: »

The era of hyper traceability and accountability has caught up on these lads. You can’t be supplying into the food chain any more without being embroiled in paperwork and systems.
You could get rid of cap but the traceability paperwork will still be needed. Stroke of a pen brings in something else. Didn’t I see recently where EPA licensing is being muted for Dairy farms now, doesn’t surprise me. Any other industry storing tens of thousands of gallns of pollutants and spreading them on the land along with other chemicals have to have EPA licensing applied.

I would have to take issue with your statement on pollutants as 95% of farmers in the country and especially heavily stocked and mostly highly competent well trained and educated farmers have a high regard for the valuable nutrients that are generated and recycled on farms every year

Theres enough people who don't understand agriculture and the value of farmers being custodians of the countryside having a pop besides one of our own on here ðŸ™႒.
.....just my opinion

green daries

Deeec wrote: »

I agree that the systems need to be in place. But I see even young lads unable to cope with the requirements. The reason they find it hard to cope is maybe poor education, lack of computer experience, nobody showed them what to do etc. Many young farmers dont realise that farming isnt just farming - it now has to be run as a business like any other business.

Yes to the systems but its red tape and constant changes upon change and no simplification of the regulations that is causing the heartache with paperwork its jobs for the boys no matter what is said

blackbox

green daries wrote: »

Yes to the systems but its red tape and constant changes upon change and no simplification of the regulations that is causing the heartache with paperwork its jobs for the boys no matter what is said

There is red tape and constant change in every industry, especially in food production.

Unfortunately there are cowboys that bring down grief on everyone else, whether it is angel dust or horse meat or pollution.

Water John

blackbox wrote: »

There is red tape and constant change in every industry, especially in food production.

Unfortunately there are cowboys that bring down grief on everyone else, whether it is angel dust or horse meat or pollution.

Correct, but officials need to identify early and differentiate these cowboys from the general run of farmers doing their best but sometimes not getting it quite right.

whelan2

Dickie10 wrote: »

i find saturdays and sundays unbelievably grim the last 3 weeks, seems like your in a never ending cycle of work, between farm and work pressure its horrible , had bord bia audit last friday and pictures wouldnt all load into phone for the audit , they guy put it back til monday should be ok, but i was really in a tough place friday, your man on the phone putting pressure on that i should have had it done, was very very close to telling him to shove it up his arse, i think he could hear by voice being dry and kind of at breaking point and gave me a chance havent felt that way since i was at school and in trouble, horrible feeling really dontt want to feel that way again.

Was the inspection today? How did it go?

The Rabbi

blackbox wrote: »

There is red tape and constant change in every industry, especially in food production.

Unfortunately there are cowboys that bring down grief on everyone else, whether it is angel dust or horse meat or pollution.

They wont say Boo to that cowboy.

Two years and five days after a full cross compliance inspection the dept of aggravation are still sending requests for further information,some of which was sent 18 months ago.It must be sent to them within 10 days or all sorts of sanctions will rain down upon you.That sort of behavior is what psses people off and causes stress wondering when your next interaction with them will be.
Those pictures for bord bia were a real headache,eventually WhatsApp the last few pics to milk advisor to close out.
Anyhow thats how I feel at the moment.

greysides

This thread is a continuation of a discussion started in another thread, but off-topic.

gozunda

The Rabbi wrote: »

They wont say Boo to that cowboy.

Two years and five days after a full cross compliance inspection the dept of aggravation are still sending requests for further information,some of which was sent 18 months ago. It must be sent to them within 10 days or all sorts of sanctions will rain down upon you.That sort of behavior is what psses people off and causes stress wondering when your next interaction with them will be.
Those pictures for bord bia were a real headache,eventually WhatsApp the last few pics to milk advisor to close out.
Anyhow thats how I feel at the moment.

Only cure for that- is hit them with a freedom information request - including a request for all submitted correspondence to-date. And get the email address of the person you're dealing with.

I have to do that before - and lo and behold they found all the missing submitted documentation.

They got a right royal bolloking when I found they had what they claimed to be missing.

Take copies of everything and date them. Screenshots / registration of any post. It seems civil servants aren't paid for being proactive...

K.G.

The Rabbi wrote: »

They wont say Boo to that cowboy.

Two years and five days after a full cross compliance inspection the dept of aggravation are still sending requests for further information,some of which was sent 18 months ago.It must be sent to them within 10 days or all sorts of sanctions will rain down upon you.That sort of behavior is what psses people off and causes stress wondering when your next interaction with them will be.
Those pictures for bord bia were a real headache,eventually WhatsApp the last few pics to milk advisor to close out.
Anyhow thats how I feel at the moment.

Had an inspection in july 2018 just at the end of a horrendous 6 months.that day nearly finished me but in fairness i found the inspector fine,not that everything was perfect but we muddled through.its still live and only recently had to sit down with teagasc advisor to go through fertiliser and storage for that year but it seems ok.dont get too caught in it,every walk of life has paperwork and stuff

Birdnuts

green daries wrote: »

I would have to take issue with your statement on pollutants as 95% of farmers in the country and especially heavily stocked and mostly highly competent well trained and educated farmers have a high regard for the valuable nutrients that are generated and recycled on farms every year

Theres enough people who don't understand agriculture and the value of farmers being custodians of the countryside having a pop besides one of our own on here ðŸ™႒.
.....just my opinion

I would say thats rather a mixed picture in reality - there are still alot of issues out there in terms of adequate slurry storage, spreading it outside the growing season, etc.

893bet

The Rabbi wrote: »

They wont say Boo to that cowboy.

Two years and five days after a full cross compliance inspection the dept of aggravation are still sending requests for further information,some of which was sent 18 months ago.It must be sent to them within 10 days or all sorts of sanctions will rain down upon you.That sort of behavior is what psses people off and causes stress wondering when your next interaction with them will be.
Those pictures for bord bia were a real headache,eventually WhatsApp the last few pics to milk advisor to close out.
Anyhow thats how I feel at the moment.

What type of info are they still asking for?

wrangler

gozunda wrote: »

Only cure for that- is hit them with a freedom information request - including a request for all submitted correspondence to-date. And get the email address of the person you're dealing with.

I have to do that before - and lo and behold they found all the missing submitted documentation.

They got a right royal bolloking when I found they had what they claimed to be missing.

Take copies of everything and date them. Screenshots / registration of any post. It seems civil servants aren't paid for being proactive...

I've been involved in plenty of cases for farmers and if the farmers learnt what you've said here it'd be a big help. copy copy copy.
Like you say here it's a huge help to get the department found out to have made a mess

_Brian

green daries wrote: »

I would have to take issue with your statement on pollutants as 95% of farmers in the country and especially heavily stocked and mostly highly competent well trained and educated farmers have a high regard for the valuable nutrients that are generated and recycled on farms every year

Theres enough people who don't understand agriculture and the value of farmers being custodians of the countryside having a pop besides one of our own on here #4242;.
.....just my opinion

If you actually read what I said I’m not having a pop at anyone.

Slurry and effluent are pollutants as I said, that’s a fact. I didn’t say the farmers were polluting anything.

But across industry any business storing and handling large volumes of substances that are considered pollutants would need EPA licensing, particularly if the plan is to spread these products on land.

green daries

_Brian wrote: »

If you actually read what I said I’m not having a pop at anyone.

Slurry and effluent are pollutants as I said, that’s a fact. I didn’t say the farmers were polluting anything.

But across industry any business storing and handling large volumes of substances that are considered pollutants would need EPA licensing, particularly if the plan is to spread these products on land.

I'm afraid It is having a pop re pollutants
Everything humanity is involved in or turns its hands to will invariably be a pollutant there's a minority causing issues in agriculture the should and will be stopped as another poster said storage is a problem on some farms and also some not regarding regulations who are spoiling farmings good reputation in Ireland but also some nutrients are allowed to be spread during the closed periods as long as the weather conditions are adhered to as in dairy washings
I would argue that people outside of agriculture have a much larger polluting footprint than farmers themselves and we are seen as a soft touch to solve the problems

green daries

blackbox wrote: »

There is red tape and constant change in every industry, especially in food production.

Unfortunately there are cowboys that bring down grief on everyone else, whether it is angel dust or horse meat or pollution.

Hi blackbox I agree totally there is and will have to be regulation in all walks of life/business its needed to catch out the rouge traders in any buisness. but in agriculture the red tape and bull that is just piled on top of more red tape is my issue I suppose there's no attempt to simplify the process at any stage

kerryjack

Jesus tis pure ground hog day around here, meeting same ould heads most of them nervous. Don't look like they are going to open up the local pub/ comunity centre/ escape from the wife and kids/happy place for Christmas. It's going to be a very long winter.

_Brian

green daries wrote: »

I'm afraid It is having a pop re pollutants
Everything humanity is involved in or turns its hands to will invariably be a pollutant there's a minority causing issues in agriculture the should and will be stopped as another poster said storage is a problem on some farms and also some not regarding regulations who are spoiling farmings good reputation in Ireland but also some nutrients are allowed to be spread during the closed periods as long as the weather conditions are adhered to as in dairy washings
I would argue that people outside of agriculture have a much larger polluting footprint than farmers themselves and we are seen as a soft touch to solve the problems

I didn’t say farmers were polluters though. You inferred that.

I was pointing out that many other industries holdingTens of thousands of gallons of pollutants need eps licence to do so, farms for the moment are being spared this.

I work outside the farming industry as well and while farmers may think they are over regulated compared to other industries, it’s just not so.

paddysdream

_Brian wrote: »

I didn’t say farmers were polluters though. You inferred that.

I was pointing out that many other industries holdingTens of thousands of gallons of pollutants need eps licence to do so, farms for the moment are being spared this.

I work outside the farming industry as well and while farmers may think they are over regulated compared to other industries, it’s just not so.

Agree 100% that farming,when compared to other sectors, is not over regulated by any means.

Think the problem/issue is that any penalty or delay in any payment has a disproportionate effect on a farm compared to other sectors.
How often do we read of this or that company being fined large sums and they trade away ?
Also a farm inspection is usually personal responsibility unlike say in a pharma company where its just a job that you have to do as part of your responsibilities. Big difference.

All thst said not too sure what the big worry is at times.Take a 20k BPS with maybe glas and bdgp sheep welfare payment etc .
A 3% penalty is 600/800 euro: sore but not life changing.One dead bullock or more likely a few dead sheep would amount to this.
A dead lamb is 100 euro and would just take it as part and parcel of farming.
Sometimes people get too caught up in worrying about things and a little perspective is needed.

Another issue I suppose is the total imbalance of power or even the perceived imbalance when an inspection takes place.
Neighbour had taken over farm here after sudden death of his father and had full cross compliance about a month into his unexpectedly early farming career.
Worried sick about it.I pointed out that a 5% penalty would equate to about 2 days wages in his previous job and how often had he taken time off there without pay.

_Brian

paddysdream wrote: »

Agree 100% that farming,when compared to other sectors, is not over regulated by any means.

Think the problem/issue is that any penalty or delay in any payment has a disproportionate effect on a farm compared to other sectors.
How often do we read of this or that company being fined large sums and they trade away ?
Also a farm inspection is usually personal responsibility unlike say in a pharma company where its just a job that you have to do as part of your responsibilities. Big difference.

All thst said not too sure what the big worry is at times.Take a 20k BPS with maybe glas and bdgp sheep welfare payment etc .
A 3% penalty is 600/800 euro: sore but not life changing.One dead bullock or more likely a few dead sheep would amount to this.
A dead lamb is 100 euro and would just take it as part and parcel of farming.
Sometimes people get too caught up in worrying about things and a little perspective is needed.

Another issue I suppose is the total imbalance of power or even the perceived imbalance when an inspection takes place.
Neighbour had taken over farm here after sudden death of his father and had full cross compliance about a month into his unexpectedly early farming career.
Worried sick about it.I pointed out that a 5% penalty would equate to about 2 days wages in his previous job and how often had he taken time off there without pay.

100% agree.
But many sole traders struggle with regulatory paperwork.

It is hard though, particularly when maybe other stuff is going not the best to get things out of proportion. I’d be very guilty of that myself.

paddysdream

_Brian wrote: »

100% agree.
But many sole traders struggle with regulatory paperwork.

It is hard though, particularly when maybe other stuff is going not the best to get things out of proportion. I’d be very guilty of that myself.

Think that's the problem at times;getting things out of proportion.

When you actually think about it,a cross compliance penalty of a couple of hundred euro is not the sort of life changing event to worry about.

That said,when its you and you alone that has the worry,hassle etc then it can become a bigger issue.Its like going to the dentist,the thinking about beforehand is worse than the actual experience.

About 25 years ago was driving down Capel St. in Dublin after bringing someone to a hospital appointment .Phone rings and its at the time a well known (in not a good way) Dept. inspector telling me I was due a REPS inspection.I says sound when you coming and he tells me he is about a mile away on another farm and be there in 20 minutes.
That was worry.We were spreading pig slurry on a field that really shouldn't have been happening plus all the other (in my mind) little bits that I had wrong.
Lets just say I made good time home and landed down to the yard to find him finishing up.Bit of plamas and a few questions from me in a harmless way and he off on his way.
I asked if any issues and he says no not really.Delighted till I rang planner and he tells me that at times they will not let you know if they think you might have a problem on the day.
Few years into it at this stage and me thinking where the fcuk I could find 20k to pay it back.

Bout a week later got full REPS payment.

blue5000

gozunda wrote: »

Only cure for that- is hit them with a freedom information request - including a request for all submitted correspondence to-date. And get the email address of the person you're dealing with.

I have to do that before - and lo and behold they found all the missing submitted documentation.

They got a right royal bolloking when I found they had what they claimed to be missing.

Take copies of everything and date them. Screenshots / registration of any post. It seems civil servants aren't paid for being proactive...

We tried that before, we were told it would take 30 working days, for them that's 6 weeks. Do you reckon a farmer would have much wrong if they had 6 weeks notification of an inspection? How long did your case take?

Bullocks

_Brian wrote: »

100% agree.
But many sole traders struggle with regulatory paperwork.

It is hard though, particularly when maybe other stuff is going not the best to get things out of proportion. I’d be very guilty of that myself.

A local farm advisor here will do everything for you at not a dear price, I think its the best money a farmer could spend if they don't like paperwork or haven't time to do it.
Wasn't there a poster here that had set up a company for registering calves and medicines book? Great service aswell that would take alot of weight off a farmers shoulders if that type of work

Panch18

There must be nearly as many people employed nowadays whose "job" it is is to check on the real work that other people are doing and/or telling them how it should be done (with no first hand experience themselves) and/or spending their entire day dreaming up more rules and regulations to keep their jobs relevant.


It's a total joke now at this stage.

And it's worse its getting

The Rabbi

893bet wrote: »

What type of info are they still asking for?

Merchant statments/invoices for animal feeds purchased in 2017

The Rabbi

Panch18 wrote: »

There must be nearly as many people employed nowadays whose "job" it is is to check on the real work that other people are doing and/or telling them how it should be done (with no first hand experience themselves) and/or spending their entire day dreaming up more rules and regulations to keep their jobs relevant.


It's a total joke now at this stage.

And it's worse its getting

It's becoming an industry in its self.Over the shoulder parasites"I'm not qualified to do that job,I'm just here to tell you that you are doing it wrong"
Coming up with new things in order to justify their existence.

_Brian

Bullocks wrote: »

A local farm advisor here will do everything for you at not a dear price, I think its the best money a farmer could spend if they don't like paperwork or haven't time to do it.
Wasn't there a poster here that had set up a company for registering calves and medicines book? Great service aswell that would take alot of weight off a farmers shoulders if that type of work

See our local Education Board (CMETB) advertising today free training for farmers on computer related aspects of farming. Great opportunity for lads to get some free training.

gozunda

blue5000 wrote: »

We tried that before, we were told it would take 30 working days, for them that's 6 weeks. Do you reckon a farmer would have much wrong if they had 6 weeks notification of an inspection? How long did your case take?

I think you missed that I was replying to the poster detailing that they were being asked for further information "Two years and five days after a full cross compliance inspection"
some of which had already been sent some "18 months" previously

But yeah a similar timeframe and the FOI worked. They were left egg on their faces and stopped the bolloxology of stuff being repeatedly requested despite been sent in. Having copies and proof of submitted documents helps but sometimes it necessary to go a couple steps more.

wrangler

wrangler wrote: »

I'm surprised at that, I thought you guys were really going to benefit from CAP 2013. We've experience d savage cuts to bring up the low subsidies
Has your subsidies not improved a lot since 2013, wasn't everyone supposed to be up to 200/ha by now,

I could be corrected, but I think the convergence figure is €150/ha.

My post wasn't about the money, everyone needs money to get along in life.

But rather when whatever % of someone's income can be taken away due to omissions or mistakes - and I have heard some right horror stories. It has farmers living in fear tbh.

I don't blame the inspectors, they're just out doing a job as best they can.

But as someone above said, I'd far rather get paid the proper price for what I produce - which could be a diversity of things - than suck the cheque tit, being blunt about it, I feel farmers are held hostage in a system that's does us more harm than good.

I accept that where food is involved and therefore peoples health that there will always be some amount of regulation, but the ease of which the system allows for some harsh penalties is beyond the pale.

At least if an individual can make more of their living selling direct that insulates them from penalties, the word has gone all brexitish but it's down to retaining control over one's business and life.

I'm serious when I say I'll be happy when I can post the cheque back.

wrangler

blue5000 wrote: »

We tried that before, we were told it would take 30 working days, for them that's 6 weeks. Do you reckon a farmer would have much wrong if they had 6 weeks notification of an inspection? How long did your case take?

An inspection with 6 weeks notice, sure farmers would do nothing.
I always got plenty of notice of inspections, always at least 24 hrs, It depends I suppose if you've the homework done, if not done the stress is self inflicted I'm afraid.

wrangler

Deleted User wrote: »

I could be corrected, but I think the convergence figure is €150/ha.

My post wasn't about the money, everyone needs money to get along in life.

But rather when whatever % of someone's income can be taken away due to omissions or mistakes - and I have heard some right horror stories. It has farmers living in fear tbh.

I don't blame the inspectors, they're just out doing a job as best they can.

But as someone above said, I'd far rather get paid the proper price for what I produce - which could be a diversity of things - than suck the cheque tit, being blunt about it, I feel farmers are held hostage in a system that's does us more harm than good.

I accept that where food is involved and therefore peoples health that there will always be some amount of regulation, but the ease of which the system allows for some harsh penalties is beyond the pale.

At least if an individual can make more of their living selling direct that insulates them from penalties, the word has gone all brexitish but it's down to retaining control over one's business and life.

I'm serious when I say I'll be happy when I can post the cheque back.

Looking for a proper price for your produce is idealistic, dreamland even and not gonna happen. Everyone would love to be in a financial position to send the money back..... but would you send it back even then, don't think so .
It's a bit sad of those that claim that larry is getting the subsidies, it's been many many years since an animal here didn't make a decent profit, so the subs only go to larry if farmers are stupid enough to let them, ie. as in those buying store cattle at the moment and actually it's the store producer that's getting the beef producers sub subs this year .

wrangler

wrangler wrote: »

Looking for a proper price for your produce is idealistic, dreamland even and not gonna happen. Everyone would love to be in a financial position to send the money back..... but would you send it back even then, don't think so .

I'm not planning on operating in the markets you may think I am, nor producing race to the bottom commodities at the expense of first world input prices. That's not a criticism of anyone who does, that's their choice.

As for idealism and dreamland, we can park that as it doesn't bring us on anywhere.

Would I exchange receipt of money for a fair whack less of rules once I had replaced that money with another source, yes, I sure would.

The happiest farmers I've met are ones that don't get a cheque.

wrangler

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm not planning on operating in the markets you may think I am, nor producing race to the bottom commodities at the expense of first world input prices. That's not a criticism of anyone who does, that's their choice.

As for idealism and dreamland, we can park that as it doesn't bring us on anywhere.

Would I exchange receipt of money for a fair whack less of rules once I had replaced that money with another source, yes, I sure would.

The happiest farmers I've met are ones that don't get a cheque.

I wouldn't even try to guess what you're at, people have to be innovative now to make it.
Have a nephew that tries to have new ideas too, he had one of hte first balers and wrappers in the country and cleaned up the first few years, It's a race to the bottom now it's so cutthroat, he moved on to other things and they too got competitive. I got leader funding for another nephew to set up, but his business is hard work and no one is going to take his business in a hurry.
Best of luck anyway with whatever you're at