Fodder beet vs rolled oats

Siamsa Sessions

Hi all,

Just trying to work out what'll work best for feeding ewes outside pre-housing, so bear with me.

Timeline is:

1-Dec = last few acres of light grass outside
1-Jan = all ewes housed
1-Feb = lambing starts

I'm trying to work out now what to feed them for their last month outside. The options are fodder beet or rolled oats.

Fodder beet delivered into the yard will cost me €45/ton. Then I'll have to draw it out to the field in the front loader of the tractor and slowly spread it around the field (rather than just dump it in a heap). Approx 1kg/ewe will give them 11MJ each and that'll do with the little pick of grass. I did this in 2018-19 and it worked out well.

The alternative plan is to collect rolled oats from a neighbour in big bags for €200/ton. Then transfer it into 25kg bags in the yard here and draw it out to the field. As with the beet, it's around 10MJ per 1kg so I'd be giving them 1kg/day.

This is where I get confused! 1000kg of beet is approx = 1000kg of oats when it comes to MJ of energy but the beet is quarter of the price, albeit not delivered to the yard. Getting the beet out to the field is also more awkward and time-consuming, plus it's hard to get it into the shed to the ewes as well (just the way our yard is laid out).

So, what do people think? Have I these figures correct?

Thanks.

Westernrock

Siamsa Sessions wrote: »

Hi all,

Just trying to work out what'll work best for feeding ewes outside pre-housing, so bear with me.

Timeline is:

1-Dec = last few acres of light grass outside
1-Jan = all ewes housed
1-Feb = lambing starts

I'm trying to work out now what to feed them for their last month outside. The options are fodder beet or rolled oats.

Fodder beet delivered into the yard will cost me €45/ton. Then I'll have to draw it out to the field in the front loader of the tractor and slowly spread it around the field (rather than just dump it in a heap). Approx 1kg/ewe will give them 11MJ each and that'll do with the little pick of grass. I did this in 2018-19 and it worked out well.

The alternative plan is to collect rolled oats from a neighbour in big bags for €200/ton. Then transfer it into 25kg bags in the yard here and draw it out to the field. As with the beet, it's around 10MJ per 1kg so I'd be giving them 1kg/day.

This is where I get confused! 1000kg of beet is approx = 1000kg of oats when it comes to MJ of energy but the beet is quarter of the price, albeit not delivered to the yard. Getting the beet out to the field is also more awkward and time-consuming, plus it's hard to get it into the shed to the ewes as well (just the way our yard is laid out).

So, what do people think? Have I these figures correct?

Thanks.

Your beet is 11-13MJ dry matter, that’s where the difference is

Dinzee Conlee

Does the table on page 2 of doc below help?

https://www.fas.scot/downloads/tn694-alternative-forages-sheep-fodder-beet/

Westernrock

Dinzee Conlee wrote: »

Does the table on page 2 of doc below help?

https://www.fas.scot/downloads/tn694-alternative-forages-sheep-fodder-beet/

So assuming oats and barley are similar the oats would be cheaper, I don’t think you would need to be feeding them 1kg/hd/day.
I was thinking of putting the lick feeder with my own ewes soon with oats and probably set it around 200g/day if I can to stretch the last of the grass.

Dinzee Conlee

Westernrock wrote: »

So assuming oats and barley are similar the oats would be cheaper, I don’t think you would need to be feeding them 1kg/hd/day.
I was thinking of putting the lick feeder with my own ewes soon with oats and probably set it around 200g/day if I can to stretch the last of the grass.

Yeah, my quick multiplication kinda said oats would be cheaper too...

I think as well that oats would be a better feed if you can manage it - no scientific link to back that up. Just I think oats is a good, 'warming' feed... Fodder beet is good too, but I wouldn't say its as good...

Agree re the 1kg being too much as well...

Birdnuts

Rolled oats all the way - if fact thinking of doing some wholecrop spring oats next year on the place

charolais0153

Is there any point rolling it,

Birdnuts

charolais0153 wrote: »

Is there any point rolling it,

I was told it helps with digestion and teeth

Dinzee Conlee

Birdnuts wrote: »

I was told it helps with digestion and teeth

I didn’t think you needed to roll it for sheep?
Have fed both rolled and whole here, seemed to do ok on both... most mills sell rolled, only got whole oats when I bought direct from a farmer...

Siamsa Sessions

Westernrock wrote: »

Your beet is 11-13MJ dry matter, that’s where the difference is

Thanks for that. Do you mean you’d need 5kg of beet then for 11-13MJ if it’s say 20% dry matter per kg?

Westernrock

Siamsa Sessions wrote: »

Thanks for that. Do you mean you’d need 5kg of beet then for 11-13MJ if it’s say 20% dry matter per kg?

Exactly, the oats are gonna be 4-4.5x higher DM

Siamsa Sessions

Westernrock wrote: »

Exactly, the oats are gonna be 4-4.5x higher DM

Sound. The figures make sense now alright. I’ll go thru the two options again now with the right figures.

Thanks a million

Westernrock

Siamsa Sessions wrote: »

Sound. The figures make sense now alright. I’ll go thru the two options again now with the right figures.

Thanks a million

https://projectblue.blob.core.windows.net/media/Default/Imported%20Publication%20Docs/Feeding-the-ewe-1.pdf

I’ve just came across this when I was doing some research on feeding levels myself this evening, but of reading in it but a lot of good data in it so might be of interest to some.

Ard_MC

charolais0153 wrote: »

Is there any point rolling it,

I think I was taught along time ago, if your feeding silage and whole oats. Oats passes straight through them.

I am open to correction on this.

charolais0153

Siamsa Sessions wrote: »

Sound. The figures make sense now alright. I’ll go thru the two options again now with the right figures.

Thanks a million

Oats isn't 100%dm either, probably 86%dm

Bass Reeves

charolais0153 wrote: »

Oats isn't 100%dm either, probably 86%dm

Fodder beef would be sub 20%DM as well. You have to be definitely feeding 4.5-5 times more than oats. Older ewes with unsound mouthy would struggle on it as well. If you were feeding a hundred ewes you be handling 500kgs if beet compared to 100kgs of oats

You can buy crushed oats off a mill near me.....i usually feed to singles before lambing,with small pick of nuts through it

joe35

What's the advantage of oats v barley. We feed rolled barley to both sheep and cattle.

Dinzee Conlee

joe35 wrote: »

What's the advantage of oats v barley. We feed rolled barley to both sheep and cattle.

Oats wont sicken, even at high fee rates, whereas barley can easily enough (acidosis)

Siamsa Sessions

Dinzee Conlee wrote: »

Oats wont sicken, even at high fee rates, whereas barley can easily enough (acidosis)

Is barley a little higher in energy too?

So it’s better as pre-lambing feed rather than for mid-pregnancy maintenance?

Bass Reeves

Siamsa Sessions wrote: »

Is barley a little higher in energy too?

So it’s better as pre-lambing feed rather than for mid-pregnancy maintenance?

I was always told that barley was unsuitable for sheep why I don't know. Whole maize or maize added to oats was often recommend as well as beet pulp( too expensive now).

Remember a friend that had a large number of sheep. He used to feed whole oats depending on where it was sourced it was with blown into his bin or came in ton bags. At the time sheep rations were up near 200/ton and he was buying whole oats at 125/ ton. I did not realize that they could digest it rolling it.

In all innocence at the time I asked
''do they **** out much of it''

His reply was a classic I remember

'at 70 euro a ton cheaper than ration they can sh!t it out away, I take my chances''

If you can source whole oats at value I be buying that.

Dinzee Conlee

Siamsa Sessions wrote: »

Is barley a little higher in energy too?

So it’s better as pre-lambing feed rather than for mid-pregnancy maintenance?

It is higher energy, its the standard all other feed is compared to.

I would be wary of feeding barley as a pre-lambing feed. Maybe in very small quantities, but you could sicken a sheep fierce easy...

Having said that, we used to feed rolled barley in creep feeders to lambs on grass, and never had any issues.

Young95

I think fodder beet is supper for keeping ewes in good condition.. they love it to ! But oats is probably cheaper to buy than beet .

joe35

We'd mix the barley with meal and feed it to stock.

Got stung one time after dosing lambs, they got barley after being dosed and the combination was too severe on their stomachs. Lost 2 of them.

We just use it to try and stretch the ration out a bit. Seems to work out ok but must look into maybe getting a few ton of oats

Green farmer

Bass Reeves wrote: »

In all innocence at the time I asked
''do they **** out much of it''

His reply was a classic I remember

'at 70 euro a ton cheaper than ration they can sh!t it out away, I take my chances''

If you can source whole oats at value I be buying that.

buy everything here in small bags, no special deals or prices. Atm I'm buying oats at €230 a tonne, compared to ewe ration of €270- 300 a tonne. So yes, up to €70 a tonne cheaper. Haven't priced maize meal this year, but last year it was €250 a tonne in small bags, so used to sprinkle it on top of oats or ewe ration for extra energy during cold weather. Always thought of oats as a honest feed. You know exactly what your getting.

wrangler

Green farmer wrote: »

buy everything here in small bags, no special deals or prices. Atm I'm buying oats at €230 a tonne, compared to ewe ration of €270- 300 a tonne. So yes, up to €70 a tonne cheaper. Haven't priced maize meal this year, but last year it was €250 a tonne in small bags, so used to sprinkle it on top of oats or ewe ration for extra energy during cold weather.

If a ewe ration has 200kg of soya in it, you're talking €80 euros, the mineraLs iused when I was mixing were €15 for enough to do a ton, so there's €95 , .8 ton of oats is €184, now that's a simple ration for 18% protein ration and the ingredients are €280 nad it wouldn't be anything like as good as the elite ration in Grennans ...... what I'm trying to demonstrate is the difference between price and value.

Bass Reeves

wrangler wrote: »

If a ewe ration has 200kg of soya in it, you're talking €80 euros, the mineraLs iused when I was mixing were €15 for enough to do a ton, so there's €95 , .8 ton of oats is €184, now that's a simple ration for 18% protein ration and the ingredients are €280 nad it wouldn't be anything like as good as the elite ration in Grennans ...... what I'm trying to demonstrate is the difference between price and value.

There is no way you are getting a 20% soya in a sub 300 euro ration...... unless the rest is virtual sawdust. Minerals in reality would not be costing a miller sub 10/kg. Most bagged rations are real lucky bags. I be sticking with the oats.

GF you should check to see if you can by ton of half to bags of oats for sub 200/ton

wrangler

Bass Reeves wrote: »

There is no way you are getting a 20% soya in a sub 300 euro ration...... unless the rest is virtual sawdust. Minerals in reality would not be costing a miller sub 10/kg. Most bagged rations are real lucky bags. I be sticking with the oats.

GF you should check to see if you can by ton of half to bags of oats for sub 200/ton

I mixed my own rations here for years, and all I had out of it was chest infections and asthma, it's a pain in the arse of a job and unless you're doing it in a diet feeder you're only making little of yourself.
I never said the ration was sub 300, If you're mixing a ration and saving €70/ton (which I don't think you would) on 20 ton you'd ha€ve saved 1400 or about €700 after tax....... if it's that important to you there's more wrong than the price of ration

Bass Reeves

wrangler wrote: »

I mixed my own rations here for years, and all I had out of it was chest infections and asthma, it's a pain in the arse of a job and unless you're doing it in a diet feeder you're only making little of yourself.
I never said the ration was sub 300, If you're mixing a ration and saving €70/ton (which I don't think you would) on 20 ton you'd ha€ve saved 1400 or about €700 after tax....... if it's that important to you there's more wrong than the price of ration

First off you are not mixing a ration. The second is its whole oats you are feeding. Its a straight its a low cost option for some lads.

Green farmer

Bass Reeves wrote: »

First off you are not mixing a ration. The second is its whole oats you are feeding. Its a straight its a low cost option for some lads.

That's exactly the point I'm making. It's an option to consider. It's what I feed up till the last month pre lambing when I switch to the specialised ewe ration. I've read the labels on different rations. Some of them have alot of poorer quality ingredients like palm and Pollard in them, which is fine, if they were reasonably priced, but in many cases their not. Also have to agree with wrangler on the dust. I've done a small bit of home mixing and it's not something that I'd bother with anymore. Same goes for working with mouldy dusty hay. I just dont do it. These days I just open a bag in the middle of the field with my back to the wind and let any dust go in the opposite direction. Your health in your wealth.

Dinzee Conlee

Well, I got a small load of fodder beet this morning. That'll feed me hoggets now for a while...

Even though I said oats is a better feed, beet suits me better for now...

White Clover

I think oats feed better to sheep than they actually test.
Wrangler, or anyone with a lick feeder, does the feeder work OK with oats?

wrangler

White Clover wrote: »

I think oats feed better to sheep than they actually test.
Wrangler, or anyone with a lick feeder, does the feeder work OK with oats?

I never used it for grain, but it's actually what it's originally designed for

There's a discussion forum about the lick feeders.
https://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?threads/3-in-1-feeders.161260/

There's a poster called ''dealer'' gives out a lot of information about them, I think he/she's selling them

Cattlepen

Whole oats is the job alright and a fair saving in money terms. Whole barley worked well for me to with no acidosis as it digests slowly because of the husk. If nature designed sheep to be able to break it down while I don’t know why anyone would feed them rolled grain.
Another thing, a lot of these bagged rations are bagged up dust treated with a bit of molasses to make it palatable. No need for 5 or 6 different ingredients

Castlekeeper

Oats are higher than fibre and and lower in starch than barley or wheat, so easier on the stomach.
Cattle get 90% benefit from whole barley vs rolled, which again is quicker broken down and harder on digestion, I don't knuw about sheep.
Rolled grains won't last as long as unrolled unless well treated.
As already said, adjust for DM, and there's work in beet without good gear.

wrangler

Cattlepen wrote: »

Whole oats is the job alright and a fair saving in money terms. Whole barley worked well for me to with no acidosis as it digests slowly because of the husk. If nature designed sheep to be able to break it down while I don’t know why anyone would feed them rolled grain.
Another thing, a lot of these bagged rations are bagged up dust treated with a bit of molasses to make it palatable. No need for 5 or 6 different ingredients

they all can be tested, be foolish for them to risk not supplying what it says on the bag.

Green farmer

Rang this morning pricing bagged ewe rations in various mills around me. Nothing available for less then €300 a tonne, so will stick with the oats instead.

joe35

Think I remember a leaving cert student who posted on Boards. They were doing an Ag science experiment on feeding barley only to pregnant ewes.

It's a couple of years ago. I wonder if they went ahead with it and what results came from it. They didn't post much about it, and don't think they put up a conclusion

wrangler

Green farmer wrote: »

Rang this morning pricing bagged ewe rations in various mills around me. Nothing available for less then €300 a tonne, so will stick with the oats instead.

An intensive lamb or lamb finisher would be good enough until 6 weeks before lambing, on saying that it wouldn't be much cheaper.
The energy value of oats would be as good as the ration so is good enough mid pregnancy, you'll need to be adding soya and minerals nearer lambing

charolais0153

Green farmer wrote: »

Rang this morning pricing bagged ewe rations in various mills around me. Nothing available for less then €300 a tonne, so will stick with the oats instead.

Oats is perfect until 6-4 weeks before lambing, it's when you have to start mixing soya and minerals etc, that it becomes hard work for little value

Green farmer

charolais0153 wrote: »

Oats is perfect until 6-4 weeks before lambing, it's when you have to start mixing soya and minerals etc, that it becomes hard work for little value

Ya, that's what the plan is , from now up until 4-6 weeks pre lambing, when will swap over to the specialised rations. Priced up the lamb finishers as well. The ewe rations and finishers are all €300 plus.

Siamsa Sessions

The man I get barley from mixes up his own straights for ewes pre-lambing. I think he said the mix was 50% barley, 30% oats, and 20% soya. He's a tillage farmer and has a good yard and proper mixing equipment.

I'd be tempted as it'd work out at less than €250/ton but I'm not really set up to mix it all in the yard at home.

charolais0153

Siamsa Sessions wrote: »

The man I get barley from mixes up his own straights for ewes pre-lambing. I think he said the mix was 50% barley, 30% oats, and 20% soya. He's a tillage farmer and has a good yard and proper mixing equipment.

I'd be tempted as it'd work out at less than €250/ton but I'm not really set up to mix it all in the yard at home.

Would he not mix it for you

wrangler

Siamsa Sessions wrote: »

The man I get barley from mixes up his own straights for ewes pre-lambing. I think he said the mix was 50% barley, 30% oats, and 20% soya. He's a tillage farmer and has a good yard and proper mixing equipment.

I'd be tempted as it'd work out at less than €250/ton but I'm not really set up to mix it all in the yard at home.

I used to use 80% barley, half whole barley and half rolled barley and 20% soya and then 25% soya nearer lambing, I was using pit silage then so didn't need as much meal, Barley wasn't dried, it was 20% moisture so wasn't as sickening, grew it and stored it myself

Siamsa Sessions

charolais0153 wrote: »

Would he not mix it for you

I asked and he said no. I might ask him if he'd mix the barley and oats thou. I could throw in the soya at home then.