Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VII *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

Spanish Eyes

Will the vaccine in two tranches be effective? Hopefully so.

Can't wait to be in a two week repeat wait for this. LOL

Gervais08

end of the road wrote: »

you must have missed the word should.
they are being advised that they should do such, they aren't being told they must do it.
so they can talk away if they want, not a problem.


there was no media scare mongering, at least not by the main stream media anyway who wouldn't get away with it.
the government stating that people should treat others as if they have it was more or less saying the same as social distance from each other, sound advice essentially to bring home reality.
it is fact that covid doesn't discriminate even if people will be at more risk or less risk from getting or being effected by it depending on certain factors.
also young people dropping like flies was not a widely held opinion, the advice was that while younger people may be at less risk from this, there are no guarantees and they should be careful.




yes, but the lock down was still 6 weeks regardless.
even with pubs doing take away, the lock down would still remain over.

Jesus that is some industrial strength horse****e!!!

bb1234567

manniot2 wrote: »

Holy Christ, next October? Ffs surely not. Every other country will be fully open by summer, the bloody olympics are going ahead, Tony can try keep us closed, but it won’t happen.

Well to be fair they were adamant and ensuring that the Olympics would go ahead last summer as well, I wouldn't be surprised if they don't again really

Zebra3

end of the road wrote: »

given they are working and working ridiculously hard during a very difficult time, absolutely nphet wouldn't be proposing, or even taking a 50 % pay cut and nor should they, it's not someone's job to take a pay cut for others.
restrictions or not they are still at work.
it was covid that put people out of work and destroyed businesses, plenty more would likely have gone the same way but for restrictions and supports.




much easier to rant about tony then the usual blame da gubament.
because people know the government are the ones making the decisions based on the advice and most countries are doing similar to us.

Covid don’t put anyone of a job so please stop with the lies.

Now tell me, what hard work are NPHET doing?

normanoffside

end of the road wrote: »

given they are working and working ridiculously hard during a very difficult time,

All 40 of them?

BeefeaterHat

end of the road wrote: »

given they are working and working ridiculously hard during a very difficult time, absolutely nphet wouldn't be proposing, or even taking a 50 % pay cut and nor should they, it's not someone's job to take a pay cut for others.
restrictions or not they are still at work.
it was covid that put people out of work and destroyed businesses, plenty more would likely have gone the same way but for restrictions and supports.




much easier to rant about tony then the usual blame da gubament.
because people know the government are the ones making the decisions based on the advice and most countries are doing similar to us.

Pulling that 'de gubberment ' nonsense does nothing for your argument other than lazy strawmanning. Tony's on €16,000 a month he's not doing it out of the kindness of his heart he's very well compensated for his trouble.

BeefeaterHat

Zebra3 wrote: »

Covid don’t put anyone of a job so please stop with the lies.

Now tell me, what hard work are NPHET doing?

Tony says he's very concerned and the next 2 weeks are crucial. But he's worth every penny of that 16k a month. Never mind the carnage he's wrought on the health service in the past.

normanoffside

BeefeaterHat wrote: »

Pulling that 'de gubberment ' nonsense does nothing for your argument other than lazy strawmanning. Tony's on €16,000 a month he's not doing it out of the kindness of his heart he's very well compensated for his trouble.

€16,000 a month, 39 board members all well paid and advising him and his only solution to anything is 'lock it down'.

A monkey could do his job

bb1234567

Some sobering stats emerging indicating state of mental health of the nation
https://www.independent.ie/breaking-news/irish-news/more-than-71-back-lockdown-response-to-curb-spread-of-covid-19-poll-39808497.html

There has been a significant rise in the number of people who rate their overall life satisfaction as “low”, jumping from 8% in April 2018 to one in three in November 2020.

More than 17% of women felt lonely all or most of the time compared with 9.9% of male respondents.

Just less than 7% of people believe that, within the next six months, their lives will return to something like it was before the onset of the Covid-19 crisis.45.3% believe it will be between one and two years

But what might surprise many on this thread is that despite the impacts it is having on national mental health the vast majority of the population still said they complied with restrictions and felt they were appropriate and necessary

More than 71% of people said the Government’s Level 5 response was “appropriate” to help curb the spread of Covid-19, new research shows.

63% of those aged 18 to 34 agreeing that the Level 5 response was “appropriate”, rising to 88% for those aged 70 years and over.

During Level 5 restrictions, almost two-thirds of people rated their compliance with current Government advice and guidelines as high, compared with three quarters in August.

60% said they were very or extremely concerned about other people’s ability to comply with Government advice and guidelines

end of the road

Zebra3 wrote: »

Covid don’t put anyone of a job so please stop with the lies.

Now tell me, what hard work are NPHET doing?

it does if there is enough of it in the community such that a lock down and or restrictions is required.
it does if it is uncontrolled meaning eventually consumer confidence dies because there is so much of it in the community that everything else has become over loaded.
nphet are doing the work they are being payed to do, that's the hard work they are doing.

BeefeaterHat wrote: »

Pulling that 'de gubberment ' nonsense does nothing for your argument other than lazy strawmanning. Tony's on €16,000 a month he's not doing it out of the kindness of his heart he's very well compensated for his trouble.

yup, never said otherwise.
nope da gubament does what i needed it to do for that specific point, thanks all the same.

Micky 32

Micky 32 wrote: »

I think it’s getting more obvious the pubs will never open fully until everyone is vaccinated. It’s going to depend on whether the government do a good job rolling the vaccine out and who drags their heels about taking it. If all goes to plan and there’s a good uptake of the vaccine pubs will open long before October.

Pubs will open, but I think that seating only will be the way of things through 2021, until basically everyone is vaccinated and there is more persuasive data as to how long the antibodies last. Think it will be a long time before traditional nightclubs open, and gigs will be seating only. I don’t think we are going back to crowding at the bar any time in 2021

BryanMartin21

[Deleted User] wrote: »

People are just getting on with it. I'd say Tony Holohan will be on his own at that stage (with the exception of George Lee and Ryan Tubridy maybe).
There is a huge change in people's attitude now. Even hardened family members who loved the first lockdown have started appearing throughout this one.

I don't listen to News at all anymore, I turn off Prime Time, Claire Byrne Show, Late Late Show and as soon as any expert comes on (Luke O Neill, Sam McC, Staines, Henry )I put on Jazz from Spotify. I feel far more normal without the propaganda from our media. And that is what it has become. We could not even celebrate the great news of a vaccine without dire warnings from Tony Holohan and George Lee. Every other country celebrated and was in the planning stage of rolling it out. Not Ireland. The vaccine here is only "part" of our strategy??

It this wasn't called Covid, it this was just a flu we wouldn't hear a word about it. Covid is killing less than the flu, most people are not sick with it, thousands of others have no symptoms. We hear of "new cases" every day, so what?? Most of those "new cases" are probably at home on the sofa watching the Netflix..................the only thing keeping this going is the media and NPHET briefings.

Michel Barnier had Covid, so did Prince Charles, Boris Johnston, Donald Trump, Tom Cruise, Lee Mack, Placido Domingo (79), Prince Albert, Kenny Daglish...............most considerably older than 60....ALL recovered.

Most people are no longer afraid of Covid.

This is exactly it. Switch off from the paid-for media articles and radio slots and you really wouldn't notice the pandemic from just going about your business and certainly not from chatting to people. I have been back in my office since June in Dublin city, was in the gym and pubs for a few weeks before they closed in October and the last week I've been out and about again. I'm still waiting to meet someone that talks about covid like it is something to worry about. Further, I've met people who know someone who had it and of course they have all recovered just fine.

It feels so surreal that the media have it as something very harmful but the data clearly shows it is not harmful and going about your business, ignoring the media, you really don't notice it. So I don't know why it is getting so much attention and why severe social and economic restrictions are imposed on society. Maybe it is practice for a virus that actually causes harm?

Rubberchikken

It suits the media's purpose to continually push it as this fear. Yes people died. But everyone dies eventually. Yes the hospitals were busy but we were always led to believe, by the media that the hospitals were busy anyway.
No one can make the comment of 'when everyone is vaccinated' the pubs can reopen.

Not everyone is going to take the vaccine, myself included, and the pubs opening or not has never interested me.
The focus on them this past 10 months has been ridiculous. They are not and never will be the be all and end all.

end of the road

normanoffside wrote: »

I think it's more incredulity at how highly paid these timewasters are, given their terrible record on decision making.

and yet the non-time wasters have been proven correct on most of the decisions they have made.

normanoffside wrote: »

They didn't want the Rugby Match cancelled back in March, then when it was cancelled they still advised the Italian Rugby fans to come anyway.
They didn't make any recommendations against people going to Cheltenham

yes, and while certainly they were bad decisions in hind sight, nobody knew enough at that stage about what we were actually dealing with.

normanoffside wrote: »

Tony around the same time invited 100's of health 'experts' from around the world come to his anti- alcohol conference.

non-issue, separate to covid.

normanoffside wrote: »

They advised for 1000s of old folks to be sent untested to nursing homes from Hospital to free up beds that were never needed. This directly caused the 2nd highest rate of deaths on care homes in the world.

and again while in hind sight that was a very bad decision the reality is that by the time that happened all we knew is that we could end up with thousands of people requiring beds, so it was decided to send people who may not have had it that they knew, to a nursing home until they could be released.
now some ultimately did have it and maybe contracted it after all.
the beds were thankfully never needed because we got a grip on the virus, had we not had those beds then quite rightly people would be complaining in hind sight that we didn't bother to insure enough beds.

end of the road

normanoffside wrote: »

They kept us all locked down through the summer when we were having single digit cases and the rest of Europe was giving a bit of respite to their citizens and economies. 'Wet' pubs weren't opened in Dublin ever, people were not allowed to go on holidays.

and boy weren't they proven correct in relation to that, with those countries which opened up a lot more having much greater restrictions then we ever had, even in lock down 1.

normanoffside wrote: »

They told us we had to go into level 5 in October and that we were going to have 1000 in hospital with covid by the end of the month regardless. We never got near that figure and so they made up 'anticipatory behaviour' narrative to cover up the fact that their modelling was wrong.

yes, we managed to stop the numbers from heading to that number in time, but it was certainly on the way to it had we not locked down.

normanoffside wrote: »

They cut testing of nursing home staff and residents from once a week to once a fortnight and refused to look at practical solutions like antigen testing on a more regular basis. Our 2nd wave deaths are concentrated in Nursing homes once again.

cutting the test period was ridiculous i agree, however i believe antigen testing isn't really reliable, so no point in using it if so, or only use it in the specific situations where it is actually reliable if there are any.

normanoffside wrote: »

The main sources of spread in the '2nd wave' has been inside hospitals but no recommendations have been made to help curb that.

yes they ultimately need to deal with that issue, no question, but it doesn't change the fact that we had to curb community transmission.

normanoffside wrote: »

So Yeah, tell me again why we should be so grateful to NPHET?

whether you are greatful or not doesn't actually matter.

bush

Hello nox

normanoffside

Rubberchikken wrote: »

It suits the media's purpose to continually push it as this fear. Yes people died. But everyone dies eventually. Yes the hospitals were busy but we were always led to believe, by the media that the hospitals were busy anyway.
No one can make the comment of 'when everyone is vaccinated' the pubs can reopen.

I think they have been less busy this year than ever.

Even in April in what should have been the peak of hospitals being over run, Big Tony was on the telly telling everyone that hospitals were empty and that they should be going to hospital if they felt very unwell.

People are now afraid to go to hospital because they think they will catch covid.

end of the road

BryanMartin21 wrote: »

I have no insight into US data and I'm not sure why you are judging the seriousness of covid based on US data?

What I can tell you is that in Ireland, covid has barely killed 400 under the age of 85 in Ireland in 9 months. It is slightly higher than suicides, about triple what road deaths are and of course no where near what the likes of cancer (9000 annually). This is in the context of no vaccine even!

Talking about the US and 9/11 is very much tinfoil hat stuff.

the number of deaths being lower then they could be is because the spread is being managed and minimised, you already know this because the actual data has been showing this and everything else has shown it.
your view on how bad the virus is is based on the fact it is being controlled, it looks harmless because deaths are not so high, which they aren't because of the spread minimisation measures.
you seem to be trying to argue we shouldn't control it, which if we didn't then you would see what you are expecting we should see for a virus which is generally serious, but is being minimised in terms of such due to the measures taken.
stating that more people died of covid on 1 day then those who died on 9 11 is tinfoil hat stuff how, exactly? if the figure is correct then it is correct, being correct isn't tinfoil hat stuff.

bb1234567

normanoffside wrote: »

I think they have been less busy this year than ever.

Even in April in what should have been the peak of hospitals being over run, Big Tony was on the telly telling everyone that hospitals were empty and that they should be going to hospital if they felt very unwell.

People are now afraid to go to hospital because they think they will catch covid.

I's clearly not the case, deaths from all causes in Ireland are through the floor. People who didn't really actually need medical attention at all maybe stopped clogging up hospitals though, because these would be patients missing their appointments have had absolutely no impact on annual mortality rates, if anything them avoiding hospitals has seemingly decreased general mortality rates, maybe allowing greater attention focused on the actually ill patients.

Pneumonia/Influenza unrelated to COVID is the only cause of death that has increased on typical year in Ireland in 2020, total expected deaths for cardiovascular illnesses are thousands below normal.

normanoffside

end of the road wrote: »

cutting the test period was ridiculous i agree, however i believe antigen testing isn't really reliable, so no point in using it if so, or only use it in the specific situations where it is actually reliable if there are any.

Honestly, your multi quoting style is horrific, but just on this point; what harm would it do to use rapid test for healthcare staff every day or at least few times a week?
I'm not suggesting it as an alternative to PCR tests, rather an addition.

Even if they are not 100% reliable you would be picking up infections that would otherwise be left unchecked while awaiting the fortnightly PCR and you could send any positives to be double checked by PCR anyway.

There is literally no negatives towards using them and they are very cheap and user friendly.

KaneToad

BryanMartin21 wrote: »

Covid is not a harmful virus to the vast majority of people. You can't seem to get this into your head, even when presented with cold hard data. Maybe try reading into more than twitter threads from underworked doctors looking for attention, aiming to one-up each other, the data speaks for itself.

Is the issue not that Covid, if allowed run unchecked, will result in hospitals being overwhelmed by those (in the minority) who are in danger from Covid.

This is how Covid will impact us all, if we don't control it.

end of the road

normanoffside wrote: »

Honestly, your multi quoting style is horrific, but just on this point; what harm would it do to use rapid test for healthcare staff every day or at least few times a week?
I'm not suggesting it as an alternative to PCR tests, rather an addition.

Even if they are not 100% reliable you would be picking up infections that would otherwise be left unchecked while awaiting the fortnightly PCR and you could send any positives to be double checked by PCR anyway.

There is literally no negatives towards using them and they are very cheap and user friendly.

if they are unreliable then no point in wasting time using them given you would have to send the samples for a reliable test anyway.
may as well just shorten the period for testing to a week and send the samples for a reliable test.

normanoffside

KaneToad wrote: »

Is the issue not that Covid, if allowed run unchecked, will result in hospitals being overwhelmed by those (in the minority) who are in danger from Covid.

This is how Covid will impact us all, if we don't control it.

And yet, incredibly, about 80% of our deaths were never even sent to hospital.
They were deemed too frail to send to hospital in the first place.

At the peak of the 2nd wave of infections we had around 300 in Hospital with Covid (the majority of whom acquired it inside the hospital), that's less than 3% of our total public hospital beds.

normanoffside

end of the road wrote: »

if they are unreliable then no point in wasting time using them given you would have to send the samples for a reliable test anyway.
may as well just shorten the period for testing to a week and send the samples for a reliable test.

With respect your argument is totally rubbish.

When you say they are unreliable they are about 80-90% reliable. so 8 or 9 times out of 10 they will catch a carrier who otherwise wouldn't know.
Given that we are talking about the most at risk group there is this would absolutely reduce 'with covid' deaths.

And NPHET is not going to recommend more frequent PCR tests anyway so forget that.

lukas8888

Dickie10 wrote: »

i see a lot of people looking at crowds returning to GAA stadia for the all ireland final and people attending 6 nations games in feb and march. surely horse racing should be allowed people back first considering the space there is at racetracks? i wonder wil crowds be back for cheltenham in march?

Probably considering limited crowds of between 2 to 4 Thousand are allowed back on racetracks in England since last week.I would expect max 50% capacity so maybe 20 Thousand or so.
I am now waiting for the inevitable Armageddon backlash.

end of the road

end of the road wrote: »

the number of deaths being lower then they could be is because the spread is being managed and minimised, you already know this because the actual data has been showing this and everything else has shown it.
your view on how bad the virus is is based on the fact it is being controlled, it looks harmless because deaths are not so high, which they aren't because of the spread minimisation measures.
you seem to be trying to argue we shouldn't control it, which if we didn't then you would see what you are expecting we should see for a virus which is generally serious, but is being minimised in terms of such due to the measures taken.
stating that more people died of covid on 1 day then those who died on 9 11 is tinfoil hat stuff how, exactly? if the figure is correct then it is correct, being correct isn't tinfoil hat stuff.

The low death rate has less to do with lockdowns and more to do with the undeniable fact that Covid is only really serious to the 80+ year olds in very poor health.

A few simple steps such as not sending sick patients into nursing homes and not cutting back on testing in nursing homes and our death rate would probably be a few hundred.

if you were a doctor and you heard there was a strain of corona virus that was on the way, which mainly affected toddlers and kids, you wouldn't arm the HSE, you'd start targeting creches and pre-schools and all associated teachers etc..

They knew well those mainly affected were old, from the country that had a media horror show because that area in Italy if famed for having such a dense population of octo and centenarians. The HSE made a mess and to be fair so did a lot of countries.

Covid-19 is now being blamed for over 40's erectile disfunction now in one tabloid....correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't Viagra sold to men over 40 on the basis of the old 1 in ten get it schtick!! whatever you can think of, Covid has a hand in it

Covid-19 has such a scope of supply with it's long and short affects, that it should not even be a corona virus, even by virtue of how unlike the other members of it's illustrious family, it dodges kids seemingly, which are usually super spreaders .it's sold as extremely airborne and highly virulent and yet kids and youngsters don't get it!! and that's just one of it's redeeming features...

Thats me

weldoninhio wrote: »

Most of our deaths were in nursing homes. Tony publicly shamed nursing homes into re-allowing visitors in back in March. They then advised hospitals to move anyone who didn’t need critical care, to convalesce in nursing homes, without Covid testing them. So yes, their actions caused them.

Can you refer particular document?

showpony1

normanoffside wrote: »

• They kept us all locked down through the summer when we were having single digit cases and the rest of Europe was giving a bit of respite to their citizens and economies. 'Wet' pubs weren't opened in Dublin ever, people were not allowed to go on holidays.

So Yeah, tell me again why we should be so grateful to NPHET?

and I didn't even own a mask at the time.

Paddygreen

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wemRBFFbhKI