Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VII *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

Gervais08

average_runner wrote: »

#

And in Sept they fell backwards into the meal thing

Tbh some places were okay - I did a pay it forward thing; they took for a meal I told them I didn’t want and they gave it to the next lad for free!

Penfailed

Richard Hillman wrote: »

I have said it from the start, it was always an anti alcohol thing. Holohan also did a talk with Alcohol Action Ireland a few years ago.

The people on NPHET are ideologically opposed to alcohol. They blame it for all of the health services woes. They want to introduce a continental type approach of basing drinking around meals. That's what the €9 meal thing is.

There is absolutely no medical reason why sitting at table eating a meal for 2 hours is any different to sitting at a table drinking pints for 2 hours. It was always an anti-alcohol angle. Holohan and Co would gladly see the back of pubs. They think Ireland would be a better place without them.

NPHET don't have any jurisdiction in the north...but it was the same there.

thegetawaycar

Of course they are anti alcohol, they are public health body. It's the job of Government to moderate their advice.
Blame the right people here if you have issue with it. It's like complaining PETA are anti meat eating.

froog

amazing how some people here don't think pubs would be a problem in a pandemic. city pubs on a friday, saturday night are shoulder to shoulder, 5 deep queues at the bar, everyone sweating and slobbering.

Don't Chute!

froog wrote: »

amazing how some people here don't think pubs would be a problem in a pandemic. city pubs on a friday, saturday night are shoulder to shoulder, 5 deep queues at the bar, everyone sweating and slobbering.

That’s not what people are asking for and you know it.

RobitTV

Oh but I'm very sure the 'Black Lives Matter' protests in Ireland were an outstanding success during a pandemic. Shoulder to shoulder, everyone sweating and slobbering. The famous catchphrase of our time "Spreading the virus" - which was used to vilify young people celebrating after a football match last night.

But when BLM protested you simply heard an invasion of crickets...

Let's get back to pub bashing everyone, the virus is spreading in pubs and we have the evidence...oh wait....

average_runner

thegetawaycar wrote: »

Of course they are anti alcohol, they are public health body. It's the job of Government to moderate their advice.
Blame the right people here if you have issue with it. It's like complaining PETA are anti meat eating.

They are also anti sport and keeping fit. But this seems to be ok as alcohol is the most important thing in Ireland:(

froog

RobitTV wrote: »

Oh but I'm very sure the 'Black Lives Matter' protests in Ireland were an outstanding success during a pandemic. Shoulder to shoulder, everyone sweating and slobbering. The famous catchphrase of our time "Spreading the virus" - which was used to vilify young people celebrating after a football match last night.

But when BLM protested you simply heard an invasion of crickets...

Let's get back to pub bashing everyone, the virus is spreading in pubs and we have the evidence...oh wait....

no argument there. plenty of people criticized those protests by the way.

average_runner

RobitTV wrote: »

Oh but I'm very sure the 'Black Lives Matter' protests in Ireland were an outstanding success during a pandemic. Shoulder to shoulder, everyone sweating and slobbering. The famous catchphrase of our time "Spreading the virus" - which was used to vilify young people celebrating after a football match last night.

But when BLM protested you simply heard an invasion of crickets...

Let's get back to pub bashing everyone, the virus is spreading in pubs and we have the evidence...oh wait....

Pubs aren't the only thing affected. More important to get sport back up and running first for all.

froog

froog wrote: »

amazing how some people here don't think pubs would be a problem in a pandemic. city pubs on a friday, saturday night are shoulder to shoulder, 5 deep queues at the bar, everyone sweating and slobbering.

Very mild illness as you said yourself yesterday.

RobitTV

average_runner wrote: »

Pubs aren't the only thing affected. More important to get sport back up and running first for all.

I've no problem with that at all, the more individual freedom the better.

froog

Deleted User wrote: »

Very mild illness as you said yourself yesterday.

i said mild emergency. as in it's not a famine, a deadlier virus, an earthquake, a tsunami, a war. the point which was lost on everyone here was that if you crack under a relatively mild emergency like covid, what hope have you when sh1t really hits the fan.

froog wrote: »

If you can't even put up with the mildest of emergencies like covid, constantly whining about restrictions, how on earth are you going to cope with something bigger? The lack of self awareness here is absolutely staggering.

froog

froog wrote: »

i said mild emergency. as in it's not a famine, a deadlier virus, an earthquake, a tsunami, a war. the point which was lost on everyone here was that if you crack under a relatively mild emergency like covid, what hope have you when sh1t really hits the fan.

Still using the word mild a lot there.

And I bet pubs wouldn’t close for a year in most of the mentioned scenarios.

JDD

Now that it looks like we will have vaccines approved in December, and possibly rolled out to the over-80's and HCW in January, how are we all feeling about the restrictions? Has the imminence of a vaccine amended your thinking, either way?

I was always of the opinion that lockdowns were a temporary measure, and advisable because of the following benefits:

1. To enable you to organise your health system so that you could deal with a surge in hospitalisations. The lockdown in March enabled us to do that - to temporarily increase covid-HCW from other areas of the health service, to take over private hospitals, to get PPE in and to bring workers home from abroad.

2. To give people time to get their heads around social distancing, reducing social contacts and latterly, mask wearing, which would have to continue to be done as the economy opened up.

3. Obviously, to decrease the numbers of people dying from the disease and being hospitalised for it.

4. To plan for the circumstances where none of the vaccine front runners were actually approved; i.e. permanently increase the capacity in our health system to deal with increased hospitalisations from the novel virus.

The lockdown in March achieved objectives 1 - 3, and the government took a calculated risk that they would not need to do anything to achieve objective 4, relying instead on two things: the chance that there would be a lesser second surge, and that we would have a vaccine by 2021.

Obviously the lesser second surge didn't quite pan out as planned. While death rates are much lower than March/April, hospitalisations were going up at an alarming pace in early October, and we probably would have been in a much more difficult place now had we stayed in Level 2/3 to this point, notwithstanding that infection rates have plateaued at a higher number than we would like.

So like waiting for the Number 18 bus on a cold winter's night, the government took the position that there was no point in changing tack and permanently increasing capacity now - despite the unexpectedly early second surge and the knock on effect on the economy of lockdown - as it's even clearer now that a vaccine is on the way.

So when we get to February and a vaccine is rolled out, how will you feel about restrictions being worth it? Looking back, it'll essentially have been 12 months of rolling restrictions that have seriously effected our economy, people's ability to earn a living, our tax rates in the future, and any knock on effects of missed diagnoses in March to May. On the other hand, the two strict lockdowns and the lesser restrictions in between have undoubtedly saved many lives, have prevented people being hospitalised and have prevented the doomsday scenario of people with other ailments failing to receive acceptable treatment in circumstances where staff are overworked, on sick leave or burnt out.

Has the near certainty of a vaccine changed anyone's view at all? You might in fact have swung the other way, saying that if we had known in March that we would definitely have a vaccine in a year, maybe we would have accepted a higher level of deaths and hospitalisations in order to keep people employed and the country running?

froog

Deleted User wrote: »

Still using the word mild a lot there.

And I bet pubs wouldn’t close for a year in most of the mentioned scenarios.

so you think the restrictions are too harsh? this is what i'm talking about, if you think staying mostly at home and washing your hands is too hard to deal with, you will not do well in a worse emergency like those i mentioned. in some of those emergencies i mentioned, some pubs would not be open, because they'd actually be destroyed.

Rrrrrr2

Lundstram wrote: »

The negativity coming from this government and NPHET is absolutely insane, do they have not one good thing to say? They've barely mentioned the fantastic news of the vaccines. Another one announced this morning but not a fcuking peep about that. Too busy trying to decide what to close down next. Also, still in the process of putting a taskforce together to make a plan to roll out the vaccines. Another bloody quango that will be milked for as long as possible on the tax-payers dollar.

Matt Hancock in the UK this morning was on the news and he was very positive. He stated they're getting 100 million doses. NHS workers will start getting them before the year is out and he fully expects things will be back to 90% normailty in the UK by Easter. I listened and was so happy to hear him but then I remembered I'm Irish and our band of buffoons in the Dail and HSE will be dragging their heals as usual, they're the reason we're in this mess now so no too confident they're going to get us out of it fast.

Talk to the nation with a bit of fcuking optimism because this constant doom and gloom is tiring and depressing.

Nphet and GP Tony don’t want to hear about vaccines. They’ll be making their role and influence redundant.
Elected government MUST take back control now, abolish Nphet or make their role purely private between them. Holohan on twitter and Rte 24/7 is deeply inappropriate and must cease

Rrrrrr2

thegetawaycar wrote: »

Of course they are anti alcohol, they are public health body. It's the job of Government to moderate their advice.
Blame the right people here if you have issue with it. It's like complaining PETA are anti meat eating.

They are a public health body? My arse! Apart from a morbid obsession with one respiratory virus and pushing of puritanical anti alcoholism name one public health measure they’ve promoted?

timmyntc

thegetawaycar wrote: »

Of course they are anti alcohol, they are public health body. It's the job of Government to moderate their advice.
Blame the right people here if you have issue with it. It's like complaining PETA are anti meat eating.

National Public Health Emergency Team?

Last time I checked, Ireland's alcohol consumption was not a national emergency - infact we're not even in the top 10 in Europe for consumption per capita IIRC

RobitTV

New video: Peter Hitchens urges people to 'stop swallowing this garbage' on Covid restrictions

fin12

thegetawaycar wrote: »

Of course they are anti alcohol, they are public health body. It's the job of Government to moderate their advice.
Blame the right people here if you have issue with it. It's like complaining PETA are anti meat eating.

Well I don’t see peta shutting down places that serve meat and sell it and using the virus as the excuse to do it.

thegetawaycar

Rrrrrr2 wrote: »

They are a public health body? My arse! Apart from a morbid obsession with one respiratory virus and pushing of puritanical anti alcoholism name one public health measure they’ve promoted?

Your arse can be whatever it wants as far as I'm concerned, it doesn't change what NPHET are supposed to do, the clue is that in the name is the term "Public Health" the fact that they are now front and centre is a government distraction and NPHET will be blamed when the pied piper has to be paid and our taxes go through the roof.

If you are that way inclined though feel free to have a look at their 2019 meeting minutes to find what they have been "pushing". The government need to take responsibility for the decision making.

https://www.gov.ie/en/collection/4abdb7-minutes-of-national-public-health-emergency-team-nphet-meetings-2019/?referrer=/national-patient-safety-office/patient-safety-surveillance/antimicrobial-resistance-amr-2/public-health-emergency-plan-to-tackle-cpe/nphet-press-releases-minutes-of-meetings/

fin12

froog wrote: »

i said mild emergency. as in it's not a famine, a deadlier virus, an earthquake, a tsunami, a war. the point which was lost on everyone here was that if you crack under a relatively mild emergency like covid, what hope have you when sh1t really hits the fan.

Look it’s quiet clear u have no interest in pubs that’s why ur spouting this absolute sh*t.

Well the sh*t is going to hit the fan, no doubt about that.

thegetawaycar

fin12 wrote: »

Well I don’t see peta shutting down places that serve meat and sell it and using the virus as the excuse to do it.

Seriously? You think NPHET have the power to shut anything? They don't!
They advise the government who then make the decisions, they are and advisory group. I'm sure if PETA were brought on board as an advisory group they would advise the government to shut down places serving meat for whatever reason.

This just shows how well the government have passed the buck, they've managed to get someone else blamed for their decisions.

fin12

thegetawaycar wrote: »

Seriously? You think NPHET have the power to shut anything? They don't!
They advise the government who then make the decisions, they are and advisory group. I'm sure if PETA were brought on board as an advisory group they would advise the government to shut down places serving meat for whatever reason.

This just shows how well the government have passed the buck, they've managed to get someone else blamed for their decisions.

NPHET are behind this whole bloody thing. It will all come out eventually.

pjohnson

fin12 wrote: »

NPHET are behind this whole bloody thing. It will all come out eventually.

How powerful do you think they are :pac:

Do you think Agent Holohan had people in Wuhan to start the pandemic?

Rrrrrr2

thegetawaycar wrote: »

Your arse can be whatever it wants as far as I'm concerned, it doesn't change what NPHET are supposed to do, the clue is that in the name is the term "Public Health" the fact that they are now front and centre is a government distraction and NPHET will be blamed when the pied piper has to be paid and our taxes go through the roof.

If you are that way inclined though feel free to have a look at their 2019 meeting minutes to find what they have been "pushing". The government need to take responsibility for the decision making.

https://www.gov.ie/en/collection/4abdb7-minutes-of-national-public-health-emergency-team-nphet-meetings-2019/?referrer=/national-patient-safety-office/patient-safety-surveillance/antimicrobial-resistance-amr-2/public-health-emergency-plan-to-tackle-cpe/nphet-press-releases-minutes-of-meetings/

Public health is a broad term covering many facets. The fact these fanatics are focused solely on just one respiratory virus and puritanical measures re alcohol does not make them a public health body. They are a coronavirus body (and not a very good or effective one) with a fixation on restricting alcohol sales

JDD

thegetawaycar wrote: »

Seriously? You think NPHET have the power to shut anything? They don't!
They advise the government who then make the decisions, they are and advisory group. I'm sure if PETA were brought on board as an advisory group they would advise the government to shut down places serving meat for whatever reason.

This just shows how well the government have passed the buck, they've managed to get someone else blamed for their decisions.

Not really. The government have said from the start that they would be paying close attention to the advice of the medical experts. There was a lot of consternation at the time that the government wouldn't take the necessary steps, or wouldn't take them quickly enough, because they would be too concerned about the effect on the economy.

There didn't appear to be any differences in opinion between NPHET advice and government policy, until we close to fully reopened at the end of June instead of the end of July. But at that stage the government had allowed NPHET to carry out daily televised briefings, and had them on every chat show and every morning radio broadcast, so that they were all household names and were considered by the public to be the oracles of what would happen in the future. And lets not forget the leaked Level 5 letter that Sunday night, when NPHET believed that the government would not listen to their latest round of advice - which entirely backfired on them.

The government have found that it is very difficult to put the genie back in the bottle. They should cease having NPHET do the press briefings for a start. Get the junior minister to do them and gradually reduce them in frequency.

Rrrrrr2

RobitTV wrote: »

New video: Peter Hitchens urges people to 'stop swallowing this garbage' on Covid restrictions

Link seems broken- https://youtu.be/bh3u0W1ajks

I tune in weekly to hear him on Mike Graham’s show- a weekly dose of sanity and common sense. Talk Radio in general has been exactly at blowing apart the lockdown sham. Pity they dont serve here too.

fin12

pjohnson wrote: »

How powerful do you think they are :pac:

Do you think Agent Holohan had people in Wuhan to start the pandemic?

He jumped on the bandwagon, it’s not that hard to understand.

An opportunity presented itself and he jumped on it to push his sick agenda. Not rocket science.

Rrrrrr2

JDD wrote: »

Not really. The government have said from the start that they would be paying close attention to the advice of the medical experts. There was a lot of consternation at the time that the government wouldn't take the necessary steps, or wouldn't take them quickly enough, because they would be too concerned about the effect on the economy.

There didn't appear to be any differences in opinion between NPHET advice and government policy, until we close to fully reopened at the end of June instead of the end of July. But at that stage the government had allowed NPHET to carry out daily televised briefings, and had them on every chat show and every morning radio broadcast, so that they were all household names and were considered by the public to be the oracles of what would happen in the future. And lets not forget the leaked Level 5 letter that Sunday night, when NPHET believed that the government would not listen to their latest round of advice - which entirely backfired on them.

The government have found that it is very difficult to put the genie back in the bottle. They should cease having NPHET do the press briefings for a start. Get the junior minister to do them and gradually reduce them in frequency.

Indeed. Nphet shoukd have absolutely no public facing role. If Holohan wants to preach on twitter he can do so in a private capacity- the government created a monster with this lot of chancers really, really shows a clear case of “marry in haste, repent at leisure”