Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VII *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

normanoffside

normanoffside wrote: »

People are so filled with fear and anxiety that even if Tony declared the whole thing gone tomorrow, most would continue to be very careful.

Despite the fact that a lot of posters in this forum think the Irish are rebellious and non compliant (or Plain thick as I have seen said here) it's actually the opposite we are some of the most cautious and compliant people in the world.

I'm still convinced that the initial advice we received on 14th march (before the first lockdown) would have ended up having more or less the same results we have had up to now without a lot of the negative side affects.

why would you think any different, forced dogma and fear of eternal damnation has been a unique selling point particularly in Ireland for 100 years..Consider the fear factor and it's success attached to the catholic church in Ireland and you'll have some idea as to how primed and ready we as a nation can be, to mass manipulation. Is it any surprise that Ireland and the Irish people have been so compliant and submissive as to be the silver medalists in a European race to get the RO to ZEE ROOO!! This one is a no brainer as it has the backing of so called experts...it's an easy sell to be fair, fear wise, and it has rushed legislation at every turn, Masks, no masks, fines, no fines, mandatory fines, new tier level system, scrapped revert to full 5 new level system. These lads would be out in week one of the great bake off!!

Before I get jumped all over, like this thread itself, I accept this whole situation is like a revolving wheel, and as it revolves, it also evolves, so like myself every couple of nights some posters may say something in slight contrast to previous posts, which is indicative of jumping on the wheel at that given point, I think this is ok to be honest....However, for experts like Luke O Neil to come onto national TV and say quite categorically and with brazen clout, masks are only good if you have the virus...presents a huge credibility problem for me, once I hear him swing right the other way and piss on his degree at the order of the WHO!!

Scientist know the perforation size in masks and they know the practice and usage of same masks, that seems easy to me in terms of a "they either work or they don't work" question....There's a lot of so called experts being shown the spotlight whilst other in the same fields are castigated for their opposing views, that's my biggest issue here. It boils down to who has the camera and the best press agent, calls the tune.

That's why Ireland gives more money to charity per capita than any country in europe..do what your told or the other shoe will drop..we suffer huge catholic guilt and like with bishops..we allow these idols to swell!

Captain_Crash

So after 10 months of NPHET going on about cases cases cases.... they are now telling people NOT to rely on covid tests when meeting family this Christmas! Mixed messaging is one this but this is insane! In thier eyes, a positive test means your a case, but a negative test is unreliable???

It’s almost as if people taking things into their own hands is leaving NPHET feeling less in control!

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/nphet-warns-public-not-to-rely-on-covid-19-tests-before-mixing-with-family-1.4433448

Boggles

Deleted User wrote: »

The virus still went up and down in countries with very little restrictions...

Perhaps it’s just seasonal and restrictions have actually done nothing?

So you are suggesting restrictions had \ have no baring on the trajectory of the virus?

So it's nearing mid December, shouldn't we be approaching our peak?

Or did our Covid Season run from October to November in Ireland?

Also I am unaware of any seasonal virus that infects 10,000 people a day in Florida in July.

Are you?

patnor1011

Boggles wrote: »

Now you are getting there.

What would you think a new virus left untethered would do to our hospital system?

The answer is nothing.
Our hospital system was collapsing last 15 years anyway. With significant absence or almost disappearance of flu this virus would do nothing much worse than what we experience with regular seasonal flu outbreaks.
Besides this virus is "untethered" and compared to flu which when contracted do affect everyone for a few days to a few weeks this virus is a minor inconvenience for the very few who even develop any symptoms. Over 60% of the people who got it were not even aware they are infected.

Boggles

patnor1011 wrote: »

The answer is nothing.
Our hospital system was collapsing last 15 years anyway. With significant absence or almost disappearance of flu this virus would do nothing much worse than what we experience with regular seasonal flu outbreaks.
Besides this virus is "untethered" and compared to flu which when contracted do affect everyone for a few days to a few weeks this virus is a minor inconvenience for the very few who even develop any symptoms. Over 60% of the people who got it were not even aware they are infected.

When was the last time Belgium had to air lift ICU patients to Germany because of the flu?

_Kaiser_

Captain_Crash wrote: »

So after 10 months of NPHET going on about cases cases cases.... they are now telling people NOT to rely on covid tests when meeting family this Christmas! Mixed messaging is one this but this is insane! In thier eyes, a positive test means your a case, but a negative test is unreliable???

It’s almost as if people taking things into their own hands is leaving NPHET feeling less in control!

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/nphet-warns-public-not-to-rely-on-covid-19-tests-before-mixing-with-family-1.4433448

Adding to this, heard on NT earlier that apparently Paul Reid from the HSE has suggested that the vaccines should NOT be mandatory for staff

On whether the vaccine should be mandatory for healthcare workers, Mr Reid does not believe it should be compulsory as it could actually have a detrimental effect on the uptake of the jab.

He said: "I'm always a firm believer that everything about this pandemic is about winning hearts and minds and not forcing compliance"

Riiiight Paul! :rolleyes:

So the rest of us will be expected to get it, and likely prove we've had it to be "allowed" do various things, but it won't apply to those who are among the most at risk in environments where there have already been outbreaks?

Y'know what.. just abolish all the restrictions and let people make up their own minds as to what to do. It would make more sense than stuff like this nonsense because the HSE/NPHET are throwing their toys out of the pram!

Ginger n Lemon

Ugh I still see that there are people here who are unaware of 40 - 50% less covid tests HSE do when in lockdown.

Yes, cases go down in lockdown. We also test substantially less in lockdown. There may be a connection there :rolleyes:

Boggles

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Ugh I still see that there are people here who are unaware of 40 - 50% less covid tests HSE do when in lockdown.

Yes, cases go down in lockdown. We also test substantially less in lockdown. There may be a connection there :rolleyes:

Nope.

Positive rate decreased by two thirds.

Gervais08

Boggles wrote: »

Nope.

Positive rate decreased by two thirds.

Given the “positive rate” is less than 3% you are splitting the finest of hairs there.

Stormyteacup

h

Boggles wrote: »

When was the last time Belgium had to air lift ICU patients to Germany because of the flu?

This is not unusual in itself. Depends on the numbers being moved around. Ireland flew patients to Denmark and Sweden for ICU treatment during Swine Flu. UK did too iirc. Some such arrangements are long-standing in Europe.

Ginger n Lemon

Boggles wrote: »

Nope.

Positive rate decreased by two thirds.

Nope as in we dont do 40-50% less tests than pre level 5?

Stormyteacup

Boggles wrote: »

Nope.

Positive rate decreased by two thirds.

Hospitalisation rate doubled and is only now slowly reducing. Suggests that the number of people who need care in hospital is a better indicator than case positivity rate.

Boggles

Stormyteacup wrote: »

h

This is not unusual in itself. Depends on the numbers being moved around. Ireland flew patients to Denmark and Sweden for ICU treatment during Swine Flu. UK did too iirc. Some such arrangements are long-standing in Europe.

Belgium, France and Italy air lifted patients to Germany because they ran out of ICU capacity.

Ireland sent 2 patients to Sweden to avail of last resort experimental treatment.

Clearly not the same thing.

Boggles

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Nope as in we dont do 40-50% less tests than pre level 5?

What has that got to do with positive rate?

Ginger n Lemon

Boggles wrote: »

What has that got to do with positive rate?

Would you not answer the question? Do we do 40 - 50 % less tests in Level 5 than pre level 5?

I know you think lockdowns are good and they work, but frankly all they do is increase mental health issues, suicides, bankruptcies. Its shameful how you keep debating otherwise.

Boggles

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Would you not answer the question? Do we do 40 - 50 % less tests in Level 5 than pre level 5?

I know you think lockdowns are good and they work, but frankly all they do is increase mental health issues, suicides, bankruptcies. Its shameful how you keep debating otherwise.

You'd want to be dangerously stupid to think "lockdowns" are "good". It's a once in a generation pandemic, there is only a series of shítty options in reality.

But restrictions most certainly work in driving down the level of virus in the community.

It's beyond weird that is actually up for debate.

Ginger n Lemon

Boggles wrote: »

You'd want to be dangerously stupid to think "lockdowns" are "good". It's a once in a generation pandemic, there is only a series of shítty options in reality.

But restrictions most certainly work in driving down the level of virus in the community.

It's beyond weird that is actually up for debate.

How could govt possibly lift level 5 restrictions there last week?? Are they murderers?

Jaysus Boggles you are onto something. Should we get a public inquiry going?? Are politicians really that mad to be letting the virus rip in Ireland causing many deaths in 1 of the coldest months of the year? This is an extremely deadly virus afterall isnt it? :rolleyes:

Gervais08

Boggles wrote: »

You'd want to be dangerously stupid to think "lockdowns" are "good". It's a once in a generation pandemic, there is only a series of shítty options in reality.

But restrictions most certainly work in driving down the level of virus in the community.

It's beyond weird that is actually up for debate.

Absolutely weird - as most of the infections don’t come from the community but nursing homes and other medical related settings.

But you know that.

normanoffside

Stormyteacup wrote: »

Hospitalisation rate doubled and is only now slowly reducing. Suggests that the number of people who need care in hospital is a better indicator than case positivity rate.

Except most of them picked it up in hospital. They didn’t go into hospital because of it or even with it.

Boggles

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

How could govt possibly lift level 5 restrictions there last week?? Are they murderers?

Jaysus Boggles you are onto something. Should we get a public inquiry going?? Are politicians really that mad to be letting the virus rip in Ireland causing many deaths in 1 of the coldest months of the year? This is an extremely deadly virus afterall isnt it? :rolleyes:

Jaysus, that is just nonsensical ranting and raving with no bearing on reality.

I'll leave you to it.

Boggles

Gervais08 wrote: »

Absolutely weird - as most of the infections don’t come from the community but nursing homes and other medical related settings.

But you know that.

No I don't.

But if you have citation or some data to back up that assertion, I will gladly take a look.

Stormyteacup

normanoffside wrote: »

Except most of them picked it up in hospital. They didn’t go into hospital because of it or even with it.

And still it’s little highlighted. A stable 3% hospital rate is a metric on which to base restriction level and length. There’s been a dearth in information on how increased transmission in hospital is influencing NPHETs decision making. It’s a battle on a different front entirely but yet the focus is still on tests and rate of positivity in the general population dictating restrictions.

weldoninhio

Boggles wrote: »

When was the last time Belgium had to air lift ICU patients to Germany because of the flu?

https://www2.hse.ie/services/treatment-abroad-scheme/treatment-abroad-scheme.html


Ireland sends people abroad for all kinds of treatments.

Stormyteacup

Boggles wrote: »

Belgium, France and Italy air lifted patients to Germany because they ran out of ICU capacity.

Ireland sent 2 patients to Sweden to avail of last resort experimental treatment.

Clearly not the same thing.

No - treatment was available here but no space. Wasn’t last resort experimental treatment.

http://www.irishhealth.com/article.html?id=18505

normanoffside

normanoffside wrote: »

Except most of them picked it up in hospital. They didn’t go into hospital because of it or even with it.

Source?

Ginger n Lemon

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Nope as in we dont do 40-50% less tests than pre level 5?

Anyone any idea why there might be less demand for testing when the number of cases has fallen 75%? Anyone?

Boggles

weldoninhio wrote: »

https://www2.hse.ie/services/treatment-abroad-scheme/treatment-abroad-scheme.html


Ireland sends people abroad for all kinds of treatments.

Yes I know.

That is not the same thing as what happened recently in Belgium, Italy and France, they sent patients to Germany because their ICU's became overwhelmed because of a highly infectious novel virus.

Boggles

Stormyteacup wrote: »

No - treatment was available here but no space. Wasn’t last resort experimental treatment.

http://www.irishhealth.com/article.html?id=18505

So treatment wasn't available. It was specialized and confined to one hospital. That's not the same thing as ICUs overwhelmed.

Out of interest any idea how those 2 patients got on?

Stormyteacup

Boggles wrote: »

So treatment wasn't available. It was specialized and confined to one hospital. That's not the same thing as ICUs overwhelmed.

Out of interest any idea how those 2 patients got on?

No idea. But the article says a number of patients were transferred abroad - suggests more than two. And nowhere it’s implied treatment was for experimental last resort purposes.

Boggles

Stormyteacup wrote: »

No idea. But the article says a number of patients were transferred abroad - suggests more than two. And nowhere it’s implied treatment was for experimental last resort purposes.

If it is specialized and not wide spread and you are being airlifted to another country to receive it.

It's the very definition of last resort, the inference is they would certainly die without it.