Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VII *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

Boggles

BryanMartin21 wrote: »

In your opinion, so then it is most likely we won't have a mandatory vaccination programme?

No it's my opinion, the journalist is quite clearly embellishing his article with some grand leaps of hyperbole.

As for mandatory vaccination, as in a decree will go out and all citizens will have to turn up at their local GAA ground or face sanction?

I doubt it.

What do you think?

BryanMartin21 wrote: »

Fine, the Schengen Area, as opposed to EU, has open borders so they won't have mandatory vaccine certs for travel between the countries as it would result in the collapse of this arrangement.

Make it a requirement coming from non EU countries, you know where vast vast majority of the planet live.

Scuid Mhór

The government has already said there won’t be mandatory vaccination. Frankly I would be in favour of mandatory vaccination but all we really need is to get 60-70% of the population vaccinated to quash transmission and eradicate this.

Boggles

Rrrrrr2 wrote: »

It never ends does it? Now we have the Taoiseach ramping it up yet another notch- threatening to ram us back fully into pointless lockdowns early January. I give up- this is the so called leader and all he can offer is more debt piled onto more debt - he’s such a dithering idiot, very unfortunate he’s Taoiseach at this time. All of Europe is locking down so he has to copy them despite the figures being nowhere near any need for lockdown.

I'm pretty sure our success is based on not copying Europe all though the calls from many on this thread was to.

Things don't sound great in Europe TBF, especially Italy.

An adviser to Italy’s health ministry has called for coronavirus restrictions to be drastically tightened to avoid a “national tragedy” after the national statistics bureau ISTAT said deaths this year would be the highest since the second world war.

“We are in a war situation, people don’t realise it but the last time we had this many deaths, bombs were dropping on our cities during the war,” public health professor Walter Ricciardi told the television channel la7 on Tuesday evening.

Ricciardi, the adviser to the health minister, Roberto Speranza, said the government, which is considering tightening restrictions over the Christmas and new year holidays, should lock down the main cities completely.

In an interview with Wednesday’s daily La Stampa, he said Rome had been “constantly late” in responding to the second, autumn wave of the virus.

Italy reported 846 Covid-19 deaths on Tuesday, taking the official total to 65,857, the fifth highest in the world

Have you a link to these "threatening" remarks by MM?

BryanMartin21

Boggles wrote: »

No it's my opinion, the journalist is quite clearly embellishing his article with some grand leaps of hyperbole.

As for mandatory vaccination, as in a decree will go out and all citizens will have to turn up at their local GAA ground or face sanction?

I doubt it.

What do you think?

Mandatory vaccinations would mean needing a vaccine passport to buy a ticket to a match or a concert, for example. Telling me I can't fly from Ireland into another EU country without it would be mandatory. I do not think mandatory vaccinations will happen, on the understanding that these measures about to mandatory vaccines.

Boggles wrote: »

Make it a requirement coming from non EU countries, you know that vast vast majority of the planet.

It depends on the country. But, for example, a lot of African countries would hardly be implementing a mass vaccination programme so they won't have a passport available. We aren't going to restrict them because of this. Similarly, they won't restrict us.

BryanMartin21

http://www.travelhealth.ie/p/CoronavirusEmergingScience.php

Some informative Q&As on the Travel Health clinic's website, touches on the emerging science with respect to covid and is a useful summary of the current state of play, in particular the part about recovering from covid and likelihood (or complete lack thereof) of getting a severe infection if infected again.

I suppose that quashes any mandatory vaccine fears as it shows it really wouldn't be necessary for you to be vaccinated if you had covid already.

_Kaiser_

Scuid Mhór wrote: »

The government has already said there won’t be mandatory vaccination.

Irrelevant if you will still be required to provide proof you've had it to partake in social events or travel.

A bit like how the Government's Public Service Card isn't "mandatory" but required for things like getting a Driving License etc

And let me be clear.. I have no issue with taking a vaccine (if the quid pro quo is I will have no more of these restrictions imposed upon my life), but I do not like the idea of establishing a norm where "your papers" can be requested at will by all and sundry.

It's a dangerous precedent for a democratic and free society IMO.

The Covid hysteria is crazy when you really think about it. I mean, early reports suggested that millions could potentially die. I seen figures ranging from 50M to 100+M.

Now, it became quite clear back in March/April that that was simply not going to be the case. Here we are 1 year later and we only have 1.6M deaths.

Now you would probably look back and think that it was better to overreact than not to act at all and that’s true of course.

But I thought eventually the hysteria would die down when people realised how low the death rate actually was.

Instead, we are more hysterical than ever. Talking about vaccine passports etc. Before the vaccine has even been confirmed safe for children, pregnant women and women hoping to get pregnant.

It really feels like the equivalent to burning down a city to catch a rat. It feels like normality will never return until we reach 0 Covid with 0% chance of anyone ever catching it.

At this stage, I’m just praying that we will be able to have more mature conversations next year.

Boggles

Deleted User wrote: »

The Covid hysteria is crazy when you really think about it. I mean, early reports suggested that millions could potentially die. I seen figures ranging from 50M to 100+M.

Now, it became quite clear back in March/April that that was simply not going to be the case. Here we are 1 year later and we only have 1.6M deaths.

Now you would probably look back and think that it was better to overreact than not to act at all and that’s true of course.

But I thought eventually the hysteria would die down when people realised how low the death rate actually was.

Instead, we are more hysterical than ever. Talking about vaccine passports etc. Before the vaccine has even been confirmed safe for children, pregnant women and women hoping to get pregnant.

It really feels like the equivalent to burning down a city to catch a rat. It feels like normality will never return until we reach 0 Covid with 0% chance of anyone ever catching it.

At this stage, I’m just praying that we will be able to have more mature conversations next year.

The restrictions are not needed we have only had 1.6 million recorded deaths!!!!

And around and around and around we go.

Boggles

Boggles wrote: »

The restrictions are not needed we have only had 1.6 million recorded deaths!!!!

And around and around and around we go.

Some level of restrictions are helpful until the elderly and at risk are vaccinated.

But this talk of vaccine passports for what is a fairly harmless illness is nonsense.

Boggles

Deleted User wrote: »

Some level of restrictions are helpful until the elderly and at risk are vaccinated.

But this talk of vaccine passports for what is a fairly harmless illness is nonsense.

Sure if it is harmless why do we need any restrictions?

Why have governments across the globe particularly Western Capitalism crashed their economies for a "fairly harmless illness"?

Boggles

Boggles wrote: »

Sure if it is harmless why do we need any restrictions?

Why have governments across the globe particularly Western Capitalism crashed their economies for a "fairly harmless illness"?

So it would seem.

Blanket measures were favoured over more targeted measures.

Boggles

Deleted User wrote: »

So it would seem.

Blanket measures were favoured over more targeted measures.

I'll ask again

Why have governments across the globe particularly Western Capitalism crashed their economies for a "fairly harmless illness"?

growleaves

Boggles wrote: »

I'll ask again

Why have governments across the globe particularly Western Capitalism crashed their economies for a "fairly harmless illness"?

Why are you asking him?

Its the 'governments around the globe' you should be asking. And you should be asking why they have presided over two catastrophic crashes in 12 years.

Then get in a time machine and start asking various Roman emperors why they accelerated the decline of the Roman Empire with a string of disastrous and unwise decisions.

The instituting of restrictions can't be used as proof that restrictions are necessary. That is circular logic.

Boggles

growleaves wrote: »

Why are you asking him?

It's a discussion forum.

growleaves wrote: »

The instituting of restrictions can't be used as proof that restrictions are necessary. That is circular logic.

I was hungry

I ate

I'm no longer hungry.

No proof, circular logic.

---

But by all means if you want to have a crack at answering the question, fire ahead.

Why have governments across the globe particularly Western Capitalism crashed their economies for a "fairly harmless illness"?

Rrrrrr2

[Deleted User] wrote: »

The Covid hysteria is crazy when you really think about it. I mean, early reports suggested that millions could potentially die. I seen figures ranging from 50M to 100+M.

Now, it became quite clear back in March/April that that was simply not going to be the case. Here we are 1 year later and we only have 1.6M deaths.

Now you would probably look back and think that it was better to overreact than not to act at all and that’s true of course.

But I thought eventually the hysteria would die down when people realised how low the death rate actually was.

Instead, we are more hysterical than ever. Talking about vaccine passports etc. Before the vaccine has even been confirmed safe for children, pregnant women and women hoping to get pregnant.

It really feels like the equivalent to burning down a city to catch a rat. It feels like normality will never return until we reach 0 Covid with 0% chance of anyone ever catching it.

At this stage, I’m just praying that we will be able to have more mature conversations next year.

Yes the (non existent) excess figures will be really interesting- apparently the recent 5 year average has been lower than the previous 20- so when a relatively minor but novel virus hits like this it takes out those not previously taken- this isn’t callous, it’s bloody nature. I get that’s hard for the live foreva, can’t accept death brigade but hey ho. We’ll all die some day even if they can’t accept it it’ll happen

Boggles

Boggles wrote: »

I'll ask again

Why have governments across the globe particularly Western Capitalism crashed their economies for a "fairly harmless illness"?

Fear and hysteria seem to have played a huge part in it.

Pressure not to be seen as prioritising the economy over lives?

Rrrrrr2

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Fear and hysteria seem to have played a huge part in it.

Pressure not to be seen as prioritising the economy over lives?

Whole thing is based on virtue signalling- politicians are terrified of being blamed for deaths- especially spineless ones like M Martin. You can kind of understand why with the modern day Lynch mobs on social media and MSM

Boggles

Deleted User wrote: »

Fear and hysteria seem to have played a huge part in it.

Pressure not to be seen as prioritising the economy over lives?

So Western Capitalism wants their general populous to be hysterical but at the same time they crash themselves anyway?



You will have to explain that one further I'm afraid.

Boggles

Rrrrrr2 wrote: »

Whole thing is based on virtue signalling- politicians are terrified of being blamed for deaths- especially spineless ones like M Martin. You can kind of understand why with the modern day Lynch mobs on social media and MSM

Would it not be more plausible that the whole thing is based on a extremely dangerous novel virus that has proven to cause large amounts of death, sickness and has overwhelmed hospital systems even with mitigation and restrictions?

Something to think about anyway.

_Kaiser_

Boggles wrote: »

---

But by all means if you want to have a crack at answering the question, fire ahead.

Why have governments across the globe particularly Western Capitalism crashed their economies for a "fairly harmless illness"?

I'll play (and I'll focus mostly on Ireland as that's where we live)...


- Initially, justified fear. Information was limited, scary images and deaths in places like Italy. As I've said before, lockdown (with all its negative effects) was absolutely necessary at that point. What wasn't necessary was the extension of many of those restrictions and not keeping pace with the better information that emerged.


- Uniformity of response. Especially in places like Europe and where you have countries like Ireland where it's not only from a medical perspective but where we seem to have a national "need" to be aligned with and validated by the bigger member states - to the point where TDs will congratulate themselves about how we're "leading Europe in our responses" etc. No surprise when you consider many of the decision makers here go on to nice cushy jobs there.


- The ongoing trend in those Western states towards greater surveillance of their populations, as well as things like manipulating the (social) media outlets (also engaged in by hostile nation states to influence key elections) to push whatever agenda is desired. What the CV-19 event has done is establish what populations will put up with, what infringements they will accept and how the above tools can be used to greater effect.

You might think this sounds like something from a conspiracy movie, but then so was the idea of a "vaccination passport" a few weeks ago.


- The economic effect hasn't really been felt by most people. As we've seen in this country there are many who are still working away and quite happily pocketing the cash they're saving on commuting, child care etc. Even those who've unfortunately lost jobs are being handed several hundred a week to the point where retailers have signalled they are finding it hard to find seasonal staff this year. The wider impacts haven't hit (yet!) because of the approach of just borrowing/printing as much cash as needed. Plus remember that no matter what happens, those in power and in the upper comfortable levels of society won't feel much effect anyway - no more than they did in the Recession years.


So several elements... fear, "I'm alright Jack", "teacher's pet" syndrome, and the move to bigger Government societies in Western countries.

It doesn't bode well for the future for those same countries.

Boggles

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

- The ongoing trend in those Western states towards greater surveillance of their populations, as well as things like manipulating the (social) media outlets (also engaged in by hostile nation states to influence key elections) to push whatever agenda is desired. What the CV-19 event has done is establish what populations will put up with, what infringements they will accept and how the above tools can be used to greater effect.

You might think this sounds like something from a conspiracy movie, but then so was the idea of a "vaccination passport" a few weeks ago.

That's because it is. There is a specific thread for that sort of discourse.

As for Vaccination Passport countries have been using these for years.

It's a sound idea in principle, but not without some negatives.

But the idea you won't be able to go to the local pub without one is just complete nonsense.

But not as nonsensical as Western Capitalism crashing themselves to control the populous.

MadYaker

BryanMartin21 wrote: »

Mandatory vaccinations would mean needing a vaccine passport to buy a ticket to a match or a concert, for example. Telling me I can't fly from Ireland into another EU country without it would be mandatory. I do not think mandatory vaccinations will happen, on the understanding that these measures about to mandatory vaccines.



It depends on the country. But, for example, a lot of African countries would hardly be implementing a mass vaccination programme so they won't have a passport available. We aren't going to restrict them because of this. Similarly, they won't restrict us.

That’s not what mandatory means. There have always been countries you can’t visit without showing vaccination certificates for certain illnesses. It’s a requirement of entry for loads of south East Asian countries and has been for decades so this is nothing new.

Mandatory is the government passing a law saying everyone has to get vaccinated.

MadYaker

CruelSummer wrote: »

I would love to know if the HSE have the capabilities to do any retrospective testing on patients from last winter. I specifically remember all elective surgeries being cancelled around this time last year due to outbreaks, the whole community sick with a very bad ‘flu’, children getting diagnosed with RSV. It was noticeably much worse than other years. Would make you wonder.

Can you find any links to media reports from last year of queues of ambulances forming outside hospitals in the north and doctors treating patients in the car park? I can’t.

growleaves

Boggles wrote: »

But the idea you won't be able to go to the local pub without [a vaccination passport] is just complete nonsense

The Times of Israel reported that Israelis will need a vaccination passport to go to restaurants according to the Israeli government. That is at least one country where it is planned to be a part of official policy ( though perhaps people will object as they did in Denmark?)

Boggles

growleaves wrote: »

The Times of Israel reported that Israelis will need a vaccination passport to go to restaurants according to the Israeli government. That is at least one country where it is planned to be a part of official policy ( though perhaps people will object as they did in Denmark?)

What has Israel got to do with that particular poster and his local pub?

road_high

MadYaker wrote: »

Can you find any links to media reports from last year of queues of ambulances forming outside hospitals in the north and doctors treating patients in the car park? I can’t.

There wasn't Covid hysteria then so of course you wouldn't- but people on trolleys has been a constant feature throughout my life but suddenly all that is "shock horror we're all gonna die" stuff.

growleaves

Boggles wrote: »

What has Israel got to do with that particular poster and his local pub?

It speaks to whether requiring a vaccination passport to do mundane, ordinary things is a mad, far-out, paranoid conspiracy theory or an actual policy that actual governments implement.

_Kaiser_

road_high wrote: »

There wasn't Covid hysteria then so of course you wouldn't- but people on trolleys has been a constant feature throughout my life but suddenly all that is "shock horror we're all gonna die" stuff.

Indeed.. I spent 2 days on one of those trolleys in a hallway outside the Emergency Room about 2/3 years ago. 17 hours sitting on a very uncomfortable metal A&E chair last year.

It's nothing new.

MadYaker

road_high wrote: »

There wasn't Covid hysteria then so of course you wouldn't- but people on trolleys has been a constant feature throughout my life but suddenly all that is "shock horror we're all gonna die" stuff.

People on trollies? That’s not what’s happening up north. You’re in complete denial. Maybe reality is too scary for you.

HBC08

average_runner wrote: »

Someone mentioned we have the youngest population in Europe, that is true for the highest percentage under a certain age group but we dont have the lowest median age in europe.

We have the highest under 14 in Europe, we are within 3% of the rest of Europe for 14-59 and we are 10% behind Italy on over 60 and then within between 6-4,% of other countries in europe with other countries less than us also

Yes but actual facts dont matter on this thread.
You say something dumb and get 50 thanks from the other loons.