Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VII *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

Penfailed

paw patrol wrote: »

jaysis wept
you are really arguing the toss whether it was 8 , 9 or 10months....as if it makes any differences:rolleyes:

If you lost out on two months takings I'm sure it would make a difference.

The point is, why exaggerate when the facts are stark enough?

Captain_Crash

Penfailed wrote: »

That's laughable. What's to stop them sending out a fine to everyone? The issue would come if people didn't pay the fines. They can't lock everyone up...oh...wait.

Well the government work for and represent us not the other way around! So if everyone defied restrictions and opened up, doesn't that tell you the people as a whole want a different approach?

And isn’t it then the governments duty to listen to the people and act based on the public will?

Boggles

paw patrol wrote: »

As I referred to earlier , the HSE's own numbers don't match the notion that hospitality is causing any major swing in numbers.

Because the HSE's surveillance is shít.

It's an airborne virus, large quantities of people without masks indoors = not good.

Arbitrary 1 meter distances or whatever the nonsense is, is simply there to make people feel "safe".

Don't Chute!

average_runner wrote: »

But if you were the driver of the car?

Are you genuinely saying that somebody going about their business and passing on a virus unbeknownst to them which unfortunately goes on to kill someone is the same as somebody killing someone in a car? If that’s the case I think you need help. Honestly that’s disgraceful.

Boggles

weldoninhio wrote: »

Hospitals are quieter than they have ever been at this time of year. 400 cases is nothing.

400 cases of what?

UL have currently 55 patients on trolleys.

"Quiet" in Ireland's health service is a relative term.

People still need cancer treatment, dialysis, emergency surgery.

Like you suggested they can't just lock themselves in, they have no choice. If they don't get treatment they die.

Rrrrrr2

Allinall wrote: »

Why not?

There would be a queue of law abiding people to take them over.

Perhaps in your world of parallel universe lockdown economics- back on planet earth the very worst thing any sane business person would be doing is invest in hospitality. So no, there won’t be any “queue to take them over”.

Penfailed

Captain_Crash wrote: »

Well the government work for and represent us not the other way around! So if everyone defied restrictions and opened up, doesn't that tell you the people as a whole want a different approach?

And isn’t it then the governments duty to listen to the people and act based on the public will?

Is it? How do they know what the will of the people is? Polls have consistently shown that the majority (around 60%) of the people want the restrictions.

Rrrrrr2

Allinall wrote: »

Why not?

There would be a queue of law abiding people to take them over.

This is the Irish civil service we are talking about- it would actually be comical watching them revoke each licence- they wouldn’t get through the paperwork until the next “pandemic” is invented

SusieBlue

Boggles wrote: »

If you are taking offense it is because you want to.

You were bemoaning the fact that your family member has to work hard at Christmas, everyone who is the hospitality sector works hard at Christmas, it is a given. It's one of the busiest if not busiest time of the year for that industry.

That was my point.

What I didn't disagree with is the fact it's shítty that his industry has to take the bulk of the closures, but there is a reason for that, it's not been done for the craic.

It's a once in a generation pandemic, there is nothing but shít choices.

Not at all, he’s delighted to be working. He badly needs the money so he isn’t complaining.
I’m more sorry I won’t get to see him and that he hasn’t gotten to see his girlfriend or his family, and by the time he’ll have a chance to, he’ll be out of work and back in lockdown, thus negating any opportunity for him to see his family.
I’m gutted for him that after spending so long in lockdown he will miss any opportunity to see his loved ones because he’s supposed to be on his knees with gratitude for the sake of 3 weeks of work.
He isn’t the only one in this situation and I’m just voicing my opinion that it’s extremely unfair that the government are using them and discarding them as needed with little regard.
And you’re completely missing the point, yes they usually work crazy hours over Christmas but they get paid for the extra hours and have more time off in January to compensate for it and catch up with their families.
This year the extra money from the extra hours will make no difference as they’ve been out of work for most of the year, and they won’t be able to see anyone when we go back into lockdown.

Your attitude to this, and pretty much everything else related to restrictions, is to suck it up and get over it. You continuously find a way to belittle and dismiss pretty much every argument against restrictions no matter how much merit they have.

Would it kill you to have a bit of compassion and just acknowledge how sh*t this is for some people without going out of your way to poke holes in it and justify it?
Cause a lot of what’s been happening hasn’t been justifiable at all.
And people are suffering because of it.

Allinall

Rrrrrr2 wrote: »

This is the Irish civil service we are talking about- it would actually be comical watching them revoke each licence- they wouldn’t get through the paperwork until the next “pandemic” is invented

How long does it take them to renew each licence, every year?

Boggles

Rrrrrr2 wrote: »

Perhaps in your world of parallel universe lockdown economics- back on planet earth the very worst thing any sane business person would be doing is invest in hospitality. So no, there won’t be any “queue to take them over”.

IT’S ‘LAST ORDERS’ for well-known Dublin night venues, Rí-Rá nightclub and The Globe bar.

This follows Dublin City Council giving the green light for new plans for a major expansion of the Central Hotel on South Great George’s Street and Dame Court into a new 6,554 sq m five-storey hotel with 125 bedrooms and a rooftop.

https://www.thejournal.ie/ri-ra-and-globe-nightclub-dublin-city-council-5280070-Nov2020/

MOH

Wow, we've hit peak Tony today

"We need to take action now in order to protect our society" ... by shutting down all forms of social interaction, which pretty much *is* the definition of society. Protection through destruction.

Rrrrrr2

Captain_Crash wrote: »

Well the government work for and represent us not the other way around! So if everyone defied restrictions and opened up, doesn't that tell you the people as a whole want a different approach?

And isn’t it then the governments duty to listen to the people and act based on the public will?

That’s where things have gotten lost in the social media age- they’re too attuned to the lynch mobs and reactionary lunatics there in.
Doesn’t seem to be any such thing anymore as having a policy manifesto and sticking to it sadly

Amirani

paw patrol wrote: »

As I referred to earlier , the HSE's own numbers don't match the notion that hospitality is causing any major swing in numbers.


Where is the evidence then?

It would seem anecdotal or made up unless there are secret numbers.


if you could prove me wrong on this I'd love it.

id love all these restrictions ,loss of civil liberties and the rest of the crap to be for something meaningful but I just cant see it that that causes me much frustration.

https://twitter.com/President_MU/status/1335262143596335111

paw patrol

Penfailed wrote: »

If you lost out on two months takings I'm sure it would make a difference.

The point is, why exaggerate when the facts are stark enough?

isnt that my point, the pain and suffering is evident enough without nitpicking over a small number of days.


anyway pubs opening for a brief time did them no good financially probably damaged them more

Boggles wrote: »

Because the HSE's surveillance is shít.

It's an airborne virus, large quantities of people without masks indoors = not good.

Arbitrary 1 meter distances or whatever the nonsense is, is simply there to make people feel "safe".

ok lets run with this...they are **** i won't disagree
but they are the numbers...what additional info does NPHET have?
because if they don't have information that we are going through all of this cos somebody (De Tony?) has notions. a feeling in his gammy knee like that weather forecast fella in donegal .

Boggles

SusieBlue wrote: »

Not at all, he’s delighted to be working. He badly needs the money so he isn’t complaining.
I’m more sorry I won’t get to see him and that he hasn’t gotten to see his girlfriend or his family, and by the time he’ll have a chance to, he’ll be out of work and back in lockdown, thus negating any opportunity for him to see his family.

Why doesn't he form a support bubble with his girlfriend?

SusieBlue wrote: »

Would it kill you to have a bit of compassion and just acknowledge how sh*t this is for some people

I did in the post you replied to.

Boggles wrote: »

What I didn't disagree with is the fact it's shítty that his industry has to take the bulk of the closures

But like I said you are looking for offense, so we will leave it there.

Captain_Crash

Penfailed wrote: »

Polls have consistently shown that the majority (around 60%) of the people want the restrictions.

There is only one consistency about the polls. They were at 90% and above in March.... and have steadily declined since, I’d agree about 60 are still in favour (maybe closer to 50 in real numbers) but do you not see a clear trend there? That’s consistent!

Penfailed

Captain_Crash wrote: »

There is only one consistency about the polls. They were at 90% and above in March.... and have steadily declined since, I’d agree about 60 are still in favour (maybe closer to 50 in real numbers) but do you not see a clear trend there? That’s consistent!

So you agree that the majority are still in favour of restrictions?

paw patrol

Amirani wrote: »

https://twitter.com/President_MU/status/1335262143596335111

fair point and a good read thanks

But they go to Oct - we are being railroaded into a level 3 plus sham after 2 weeks of us coming out of level 5. So we aren't be curtailed over those numbers but the current ones.



those graphs show an increase in hospitality never more than 175 (?) cases which is way down the order of what provides most infections of the 5 categories hospitality is the lowest

Boggles

paw patrol wrote: »

ok lets run with this...they are **** i won't disagree
but they are the numbers...what additional info does NPHET have?
because if they don't have information that we are going through all of this cos somebody (De Tony?) has notions. a feeling in his gammy knee like that weather forecast fella in donegal .

Forget Tony.

Engage common sense.

It's an airborne virus you are 20 times more likely to pick up indoors.

Penfailed

Penfailed wrote: »

So you agree that the majority are still in favour of restrictions?

If polls are to be believed, 41% of France will not take any Covid Vaccine. over 30% of Germany will not go for it either, up to 50% in the USA..If in fact you go by polls or like cherry picking polls rather.

favoring restrictions are as changeable or even more so to be fair.

My biggest gripe of all is that we all have to hash this out on a forum..this is national debate stuff now at this stage, all sections of society need to weigh in, fully masked if that's what it takes.

brendanwalsh

Los Angeles county is now at 0 medical ICU beds available for COVID (paediatric beds still available)

One fifth of the entire number of cases in LA has been diagnosed in the past week.

This is what happens when you DGAF and have a full holiday season (thanksgiving in their instance)

paw patrol

Boggles wrote: »

Forget Tony.
Engage common sense.
It's an airborne virus you are 20 times more likely to pick up indoors.

tony is forgotten for 5 mins.

what you say is true but I don't care. I am willing to accept the risk for my pints*.

At what stage do we say for 52,000 current cases (known) we have 206 in hospital with it (and of course they have covid not that they were admitted cos of covid)
There are 5milllion people in ireland. That's a poor return for a killer virus that mutes Christmas and kills the new year .

as I said a while back , if you have commitments and /or are concerned for your health..avoid social gatherings and control who goes into your house.

I'll admit there may be no perfect response but suppressing us all isn't the answer unless ( a previous accusation of mine) the state is shirking its' responsibility to commit to an action and placing the onus on the population by demonising house parties, teenagers , bars that appear in 10second videos .....anybody but them . If that's the case...then well played


*
I say pints
but I mean everything like my kids GAA and boxing (which has been closed since march).

MOH

Amirani wrote: »

https://twitter.com/President_MU/status/1335262143596335111

It's funny how they can see a clear pattern over time only when it suits them.
5-day average on the day restaurants and food pubs started opening (end of June) was 17
5-day average three weeks later was 22, although in that time the number of tests had increased 250%.

5-day average on the day schools started opening was 122.
5-day average two weeks later: 170
5-day average three weeks later: 253
...and so on and so up.

Boggles

paw patrol wrote: »

206 in hospital with it

Currently. Different people get discharged and admitted everyday.

But that is an important measure of how good we are doing, remember NPHET's main remit it to keep non covid health care operational.

There was 5516 people hospitalized since the start of the pandemic.

paw patrol wrote: »

*
I say pints
but I mean everything like my kids GAA and boxing (which has been closed since march).

GAA and Soccer under 18's has not been closed since March. I've no idea about boxing.

900 cúl camps were ran over the summer with 71,000 kids taking part.

weldoninhio

Penfailed wrote: »

So you agree that the majority are still in favour of restrictions?

I wonder how many late teens, early 20s take these polls??

"The lowest vaccination intent among surveyed countries is found in France, where almost half of citizens wouldn’t get it".

This is not a bad read if anyones interested, so maybe we should sort our lockdown strategy long term. Maybe try live with it as was the plan instead of pulling down every shutter in the country to hide from it.

Hiding from such a "highly infectious" disease I mean

https://www.politico.eu/article/coronavirus-vaccine-hesitancy-could-spoil-the-party-in-2021/

Captain_Crash

Penfailed wrote: »

So you agree that the majority are still in favour of restrictions?

My post literally answered that! I believe it’s closer to 50/50 in real life but yes agree polls show 60/40!

However, we’re getting away from the point of my initial post! I was speaking of a hypothetical situation where “if” everyone opened tomorrow it’s an indication that the public want out, and it’s the governments job to acknowledge that should it happen and act accordingly.

Boggles

Captain_Crash wrote: »

However, we’re getting away from the point of my initial post! I was speaking of a hypothetical situation where “if” everyone opened tomorrow it’s an indication that the public want out, and it’s the governments job to acknowledge that should it happen and act accordingly.

What do you mean if everyone opened tomorrow?

RunningFlyer

Just read they are considering closing hospitality again from 28th December.

Very convenient - schools are off so if there’s a reduction in cases NPHET and Sir Tony can claim it was closing the hospitality sector that made the difference.

Wish the government would grow a back-bone and call their bluff... never going to happen though.

Cannot wait for this farce to be over!