Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VII *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

acequion

Captain_Crash wrote: »

Except what people want is literally the concept of democracy!

100% And what people "want" is generally determined by what they need. And you expect a good Govt to balance all wants and all needs not to focus on a narrow few. Which, unbelievably, is what our Govt is doing. And placating the majority with borrowed money which won't be pretty when payback comes. I still can't get my head around it. I really did expect more of an effort to actually live with Covid but when did a FF led Govt ever do it anyway but the easy way for them!

I too was shocked by the callous attitude of that poster regarding the wants of the people. But many posters here show an overall callous lack of empathy so long as they can virtue signal and have their precious restrictions in place. Ironically it's all about what they want. And how they want others to live.

MadYaker

Captain_Crash wrote: »

Except what people want is literally the concept of democracy!

Democracy isn’t about giving people what they want. You need to go back to school.

MadYaker

Rrrrrr2 wrote: »

Particularly bizarre comment alright- “you’ll be told what’s good for you regardless of what you think”- shows the kind of mentality you are up against with these people- their paranoia is supposed to trump your free will and any freedom or ability to express it

People don’t always know what’s good for them is the point I was making.

suicide_circus

suicide_circus wrote: »

GP referrals for people to be sent for cancer screening was down 60% in the UK, something similar here i think

Think? Good evidence

Captain_Crash

Captain_Crash wrote: »

Except what people want is literally the concept of democracy!

It’s not. It’s selecting representatives to represent the interests of the society as a whole, depending on your view of those interests

Dr. Bre

Captain_Crash wrote: »

So the news is on in the background, and I’ve just heard it mentioned that road deaths are UP this year!! The restrictions have had an impact on all aspects of life, but I certainly expected road deaths to be down. Does this say anything about the effectiveness/compliance of restrictions at all and that people have not been restricting movement as much as we may believe?

That reminds me a haven’t heard the news talk about a road death . It’s all covid

Captain_Crash

[Deleted User] wrote: »

It’s not. It’s selecting representatives to represent the interests of the society as a whole, depending on your view of those interests

Exactly, you’ve proven the point! when you select your representative you are selecting who you want to represent your best interests! They are to act based on the needs of those who they represent in a balanced and considerate manner. The penalty for not doing so it losing their seat.

Which comes back to the hypothetical example given earlier that started this side debate, if the whole nation make it clear we don’t want this anymore, then it’s our elected representatives duty to act on it! Again, it’s hypothetical, you don’t want to go back to normal tomorrow and I respect that, there is nothing wrong with a difference of opinion on it! A TD’s role is to balance our differing opinions!

suicide_circus

Dr. Bre wrote: »

That reminds me a haven’t heard the news talk about a road death . It’s all covid

You'd hear about a road death if the corpse tested positive for covid

suicide_circus

CruelSummer wrote: »

So Day One of Restrictions on County travel being relaxed & we’ve Dr Holohan, Philip Nolan and Mael Martin out threatening further restrictions and restaurant closures and the HSE declaring only meet people inside that you ‘trust with your life’.

Yet there are only 200 people in hospital with Covid currently thanks to everyone’s hard work. A restauranteur on the radio earlier said they’ve ordered in €30,000 worth of stock & are now faced with early closure. They need certainty NOW instead of this constant barrage of doom. Enough with the ‘Raise the worrymeter’ approach!!

I'd certainly support a redress scheme for restraneurs in that scenario

Captain_Crash

MadYaker wrote: »

You need to go back to school.

Haha that’s a good one! I spent long enough in college to get where I am and it’s left me eminently more qualified on some matters than many of those in Leinster House! And I still don’t have their pension!!! Must be in the wrong job!

MOH

Deleted User wrote: »

It’s not. It’s selecting representatives to represent the interests of the society as a whole, depending on your view of those interests

Really? That's an incredibly naive view.

Realistically, it's about selecting individuals who make whatever promises are necessary to get themselves elected ,for which they'll never be held accountable because by the time the next election rolls around one or more of the following will apply: a) most people will have forgotten the original promises; b) they'll have fought for those issues they genuinely thought were resolvable but been outvoted (which is at least a legitimate excuse, and also the least validly used); c) spent their elected time voting for whatever measure seems politically expedient in that moment in order to ensure their own re-election.

The one thing absent for the most part is the good of society a a whole.

All of which is totally irrelevant here: since policy in this instance seems to be largely driven by a bunch of people who have been repeatedly proven horribly wrong, given a daily public platform to make pronouncements with zero accountability.

Captain_Crash

Captain_Crash wrote: »

Exactly, you’ve proven the point! when you select your representative you are selecting who you want to represent your best interests! They are to act based on the needs of those who they represent in a balanced and considerate manner. The penalty for not doing so it losing their seat.

Which comes back to the hypothetical example given earlier that started this side debate, if the whole nation make it clear we don’t want this anymore, then it’s our elected representatives duty to act on it! Again, it’s hypothetical, you don’t want to go back to normal tomorrow and I respect that, there is nothing wrong with a difference of opinion on it! A TD’s role is to balance our differing opinions!

I select people to represent what I hope to be societies best interests, and judge that ultimately what is in societies best interests are also mine. Maybe that’s naive. If we were tomorrow to elect a government on the mandate that there was never to be a lockdown, should a 10% IFR pandemic emerge must they hold an election to enforce a lockdown?

MOH

MOH wrote: »

Really? That's an incredibly naive view.

Realistically, it's about selecting individuals who make whatever promises are necessary to get themselves elected ,for which they'll never be held accountable because by the time the next election rolls around one or more of the following will apply: a) most people will have forgotten the original promises; b) they'll have fought for those issues they genuinely thought were resolvable but been outvoted (which is at least a legitimate excuse, and also the least validly used); c) spent their elected time voting for whatever measure seems politically expedient in that moment in order to ensure their own re-election.

The one thing absent for the most part is the good of society a a whole.

All of which is totally irrelevant here: since policy in this instance seems to be largely driven by a bunch of people who have been repeatedly proven horribly wrong, given a daily public platform to make pronouncements with zero accountability.

If that’s yours and the majority view as to what the voters role in democracy is it’s no wonder we end up in ****

degsie

So, was in a German shop today and observed a 'mature' adult pick up almost every piece of chilled goods and maul then to find one with the longest best before date. I couldn't believe my eyes! Why in the holy lamb of jazus will people do this **** in the middle of a pandemic. Relaxation of restrictions me rollix, this is the kind of crap that has us in this predicament in the first place!

Dr. Bre

degsie wrote: »

So, was in a German shop today and observed a 'mature' adult pick up almost every piece of chilled goods and maul then to find one with the longest best before date. I couldn't believe my eyes! Why in the holy lamb of jazus will people do this **** in the middle of a pandemic. Relaxation of restrictions me rollix, this is the kind of crap that has us in this predicament in the first place!

Well if your that paranoid you shouldn’t be in a shop in the first place !

Captain_Crash

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I select people to represent what I hope to be societies best interests, and judge that ultimately what is in societies best interests are also mine. Maybe that’s naive. If we were tomorrow to elect a government on the mandate that there was never to be a lockdown, should a 10% IFR pandemic emerge must they hold an election to enforce a lockdown?

That’s absolutely your right and I’ll respect that and fight for your right also! Without question! My position is I vote who best serves my interests, I don’t care about yours because they don’t concern me (that’s not a dig at you and I mean that in a nice way. Your concerns may very well match mine).

No, a government mandate is not in anyway binding so a TD can say what he likes to get elected and then vote the opposite in the Dail on anything s/he likes! It’s prob happened more times than we’d like to know! Like my last post mentioned, the penalty for not respecting a mandate is the threat of not being re-elected, which for better or worse is realistically is a TD’s first, foremost and only real concern!

degsie

Dr. Bre wrote: »

Well if your that paranoid you shouldn’t be in a shop in the first place !

So you agree with this behavior?

hynesie08

degsie wrote: »

So you agree with this behavior?

Buying something with the longest possible shelf life before Xmas.......

Yeah absolutely

JRant

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Today's preliminary figures show beyond doubt we have put ourselves in a bad situation. The positivity rate is now increasing somewhere between 0.3 and 0.7% per day.

Every day not taking action now worsens the pain in the new year and will have a retarding effect on getting numbers back stable. It will require ever tougher measures.

We are hopelessly exposed right now due to poor leadership and decision making.

What's happening now is self inflicted.

So Level 5 for the foreseeable is it Kermit?

bush

Boggles wrote: »

Forget Tony.



It's an airborne virus you are 20 times more likely to pick up indoors.

Link?

normanoffside

degsie wrote: »

So, was in a German shop today and observed a 'mature' adult pick up almost every piece of chilled goods and maul then to find one with the longest best before date. I couldn't believe my eyes! Why in the holy lamb of jazus will people do this **** in the middle of a pandemic. Relaxation of restrictions me rollix, this is the kind of crap that has us in this predicament in the first place!

Do you honestly think you can pick up this virus because some touched the frozen veg that you bought?

If that's the case then why did Tony the other day take a cup of water handed to him by someone (with no gloves) and stick it straight in his gob?

Oberkon

Booked a few days break to Kerry from Dublin for 28th . Nice Restaurant booked too .Getting the feeling that’s gone now ?

degsie

normanoffside wrote: »

Do you honestly think you can pick up this virus because some touched the frozen veg that you bought?

If that's the case then why did Tony the other day take a cup of water handed to him by someone (with no gloves) and stick it straight in his gob?

You are not paying attention, I said chilled not frozen :cool:

rovers_runner

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Today's preliminary figures show beyond doubt we have put ourselves in a bad situation. The positivity rate is now increasing somewhere between 0.3 and 0.7% per day.

Every day not taking action now worsens the pain in the new year and will have a retarding effect on getting numbers back stable. It will require ever tougher measures.

We are hopelessly exposed right now due to poor leadership and decision making.

What's happening now is self inflicted.

You only speak for yourself you miserable excuse for a man.
You revel in this situation as it drags people down to your misery.

suicide_circus

Oberkon wrote: »

Booked a few days break to Kerry from Dublin for 28th . Nice Restaurant booked too .Getting the feeling that’s gone now ?

Same as ourselves, had a few days booked outside the county, only have myself to blame really, should have seen tony sh1tting the bed a mile off.

billyhead

Do you think hotels will be shut from the 28th or is it just county to county travel been forbidden.

normanoffside

billyhead wrote: »

Do you think hotels will be shut from the 28th or is it just county to county travel been forbidden.

Tony's only solution to anything is to shut everything down

MOH

Deleted User wrote: »

If that’s yours and the majority view as to what the voters role in democracy is it’s no wonder we end up in ****

I wouldn't deign to speak for the majority, or anyone other than myself, so I can't possibly comment on that aspect. But i would be genuinely relieved for a cogent argument against that being how things actually work.

Then again, that's largely irrelevant, since elected representatives aren't the problem here.

Our whole Covid response has been underpants gnomes levels of nonsense.
Step 1: lockdown to reduce the curve; Step 2: ???; Step 3: covid solution.

And so we keep circling around variations on step one because: actually tracking how the virus is spreading is "an academic exercise" (Philip Nolan); we have the infrastructure to perform detailed testing and tracing and avoid the need for a further national lockdown (Cillian de Gascun, July); limiting visits to nursing homes is premature (Tony Holohan, March).

When the man who advised there wasn't a problem with the general public making visits to a cohort who ended up becoming the single largest group of Covid deaths is not only not facing an inquiry, but is still in charge of the public health response, and given a daily pulpit from which to give a "press conference" at which nobody ever really questions anything, elected officials aren't really the issue.

The arrogance is worse. Nothing has been learned since March. Then Holohan was insisting nursing home visits were not a problem, when the people running nursing homes were pushing for restrictions. Now when school principals feel there's a clear public health threat in their schools and try to close them, they're overruled and forced to stay open.

And after two lockdowns, and zero signs of forming any kind of long term policy for actually dealing with the virus, we'll go into a third soon. And more scapegoated businesses will go under, and more people will die anyway. And then we'll get a vaccine and Tony and his merry band of charlatans will reap the plaudits and the pats on the back from people like you for sagely guiding us through this crisis. Well done, you.

JRant

suicide_circus wrote: »

Same as ourselves, had a few days booked outside the county, only have myself to blame really, should have seen tony sh1tting the bed a mile off.

6 gun Houlihan doesn't give a shiny shïtê about any of that. Once he can have the pubs, restaurants and hotels shut down to stop the demon drink he's a happy man.

JRant

JRant wrote: »

6 gun Houlihan doesn't give a shiny shïtê about any of that. Once he can have the pubs, restaurants and hotels shut down to stop the demon drink he's a happy man.

Horsesh*t