Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VII *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

MOH

MOH wrote: »

I wouldn't deign to speak for the majority, or anyone other than myself, so I can't possibly comment on that aspect. But i would be genuinely relieved for a cogent argument against that being how things actually work.

Then again, that's largely irrelevant, since elected representatives aren't the problem here.

Our whole Covid response has been underpants gnomes levels of nonsense.
Step 1: lockdown to reduce the curve; Step 2: ???; Step 3: covid solution.

And so we keep circling around variations on step one because: actually tracking how the virus is spreading is "an academic exercise" (Philip Nolan); we have the infrastructure to perform detailed testing and tracing and avoid the need for a further national lockdown (Cillian de Gascun, July); limiting visits to nursing homes is premature (Tony Holohan, March).

When the man who advised there wasn't a problem with the general public making visits to a cohort who ended up becoming the single largest group of Covid deaths is not only not facing an inquiry, but is still in charge of the public health response, and given a daily pulpit from which to give a "press conference" at which nobody ever really questions anything, elected officials aren't really the issue.

The arrogance is worse. Nothing has been learned since March. Then Holohan was insisting nursing home visits were not a problem, when the people running nursing homes were pushing for restrictions. Now when school principals feel there's a clear public health threat in their schools and try to close them, they're overruled and forced to stay open.

And after two lockdowns, and zero signs of forming any kind of long term policy for actually dealing with the virus, we'll go into a third soon. And more scapegoated businesses will go under, and more people will die anyway. And then we'll get a vaccine and Tony and his merry band of charlatans will reap the plaudits and the pats on the back from people like you for sagely guiding us through this crisis. Well done, you.

Great use of the word charlatan. It’s obvious who the charlatans are however.

Kermit.de.frog

Real Donald Trump wrote: »

Pity we didn't have that alco Ryan from the WHO as our CMO, he'd at least keep the pubs open.

You call him an alco and then extend pre-emptive gratitude on the premise that he might "keep the pubs open".

Peculiar circle of logic going on here.

Yeh alco :pac:

acequion

MadYaker wrote: »

People don’t always know what’s good for them is the point I was making.

And higher powers like you do I suppose :rolleyes:

MOH

Deleted User wrote: »

Great use of the word charlatan. It’s obvious who the charlatans are however.

Thanks. Great failure to address any of the actual points or engage in any actual discussion. Here's another word for you: troll. It's pretty obvious who those are too.

lukas8888

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

You call him an alco and then extend pre-emptive gratitude on the premise that he might "keep the pubs open".

Peculiar circle of logic going on here.

Yeh alco :pac:

Think you have your logic mixed up more than a little there.

acequion

MOH wrote: »

I wouldn't deign to speak for the majority, or anyone other than myself, so I can't possibly comment on that aspect. But i would be genuinely relieved for a cogent argument against that being how things actually work.

Then again, that's largely irrelevant, since elected representatives aren't the problem here.

Our whole Covid response has been underpants gnomes levels of nonsense.
Step 1: lockdown to reduce the curve; Step 2: ???; Step 3: covid solution.

And so we keep circling around variations on step one because: actually tracking how the virus is spreading is "an academic exercise" (Philip Nolan); we have the infrastructure to perform detailed testing and tracing and avoid the need for a further national lockdown (Cillian de Gascun, July); limiting visits to nursing homes is premature (Tony Holohan, March).

When the man who advised there wasn't a problem with the general public making visits to a cohort who ended up becoming the single largest group of Covid deaths is not only not facing an inquiry, but is still in charge of the public health response, and given a daily pulpit from which to give a "press conference" at which nobody ever really questions anything, elected officials aren't really the issue.

The arrogance is worse. Nothing has been learned since March. Then Holohan was insisting nursing home visits were not a problem, when the people running nursing homes were pushing for restrictions. Now when school principals feel there's a clear public health threat in their schools and try to close them, they're overruled and forced to stay open.

And after two lockdowns, and zero signs of forming any kind of long term policy for actually dealing with the virus, we'll go into a third soon. And more scapegoated businesses will go under, and more people will die anyway. And then we'll get a vaccine and Tony and his merry band of charlatans will reap the plaudits and the pats on the back from people like you for sagely guiding us through this crisis. Well done, you.

Excellent post. Really highlights the useless shower of charlatans taking the lead in this whole sorry saga since last March. From the arrogance of Holohan to the uselessness of MM to the subservience of the media who rarely ask the tough questions where needed and ramp up the hysteria where required. No wonder the public have switched off.

Kermit.de.frog

Do you speak for the population of Ireland?

Goldengirl

MadYaker wrote: »

We’re a year into this and you still don’t get it. 484 yesterday, 4 weeks from now if there aren’t more restrictions brought in they’ll be announcing over 1000 cases a day. Bookmark this post and see if I’m wrong.

Exactly .
Even with the present restrictions and cases now climbing higher than 500 this evening 34 now in ICU .
But this evening we now only have 3 adult ICU beds left in Dublin hospitals ,heading into the busiest season for illness and accidents in the year .

Don't Chute!

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Do you speak for the population of Ireland?

Do you?

Kermit.de.frog

Don't Chute! wrote: »

Do you?

No

normanoffside

Goldengirl wrote: »

Exactly .
Even with the present restrictions and cases now climbing higher than 500 this evening 34 now in ICU .
But this evening we now only have 3 adult ICU beds left in Dublin hospitals ,heading into the busiest season for illness and accidents in the year .

How are we doing compared to normal at this time of year?

normanoffside

It's mad that in 'tier 2' cities in England they are allowed 2k fans at matches and that pubs and restaurants are working away pretty much as normal.
I was checking the incidence rates and they have tier 2 cities with 5 or 6 times higher rates than us a a country.

I'm Not suggesting the UK are an example to follow but the Tier 2 cities and regions have not been rising in anyway exponentially and their hospitals are not overwhelmed.

Is it any wonder that having been locked down almost completely for 9 months that the moment they let us 'free' the numbers go up?
people are dying to go out and socialise
That doesn't mean that it's unsustainable it just seems it rises quickly and levels off.

Also I would say that all the curtain twitchers we had in level 5 whingeing and posting videos about people drinking on the streets must be crying into their cornflakes now as its apparent outdoor congregations don't really do anything to numbers.

Fortunately these kinds of people haven't been taking videos from inside establishments, they are probably too afraid to go in.

I think we should learn that we should be encouraging outdoor dining and drinking. I know it's difficult in winter but it can be done, especially on mild days.

dalyboy

normanoffside wrote: »

How are we doing compared to normal at this time of year?

Ahh no. Don’t be asking sensitive questions like that now.

The illusory paradigm of us “fighting the good fight” against a Black Death (0.2275% fatality) will be ruined.

acequion

This looks slightly more hopeful.

https://www.thejournal.ie/pub-restaurant-dec-30-closure-5305523-Dec2020/

Goldengirl

dalyboy wrote: »

Ahh no. Don’t be asking sensitive questions like that now.

The illusory paradigm of us “fighting the good fight” against a Black Death (0.2275% fatality) will be ruined.

Firstly flu has been nonexistent with the restrictions being deployed, as you know .
Covid has more than made up for the lack of flu because it is more infectious and people hospitalised are sicker .
Thus ..More general beds available ...less ICU beds .
Hence my original post .

dalyboy

Goldengirl wrote: »

Firstly flu has been nonexistent with the restrictions being deployed, as you know .
Covid has more than made up for the lack of flu because it is more infectious and people hospitalised are sicker .
Thus ..More general beds available ...less ICU beds .
Hence my original post .

Yeah. I’d be looking for something called EVIDENCE to believe that bold assertion.
I’ve looked up the word conflation there. Interesting reading I must say.

Goldengirl

dalyboy wrote: »

Yeah. I’d be looking for something called EVIDENCE to believe that bold assertion.
I’ve looked up the word conflation there. Interesting reading I must say.

Look up the flu sentinel data on Gov.ie , no cases of flu this year. This is available for everyone, to read , even you .
Normally well into the season now.
If you post more silly stuff don't expect an answer , I don't respond to trolling posts.

the kelt

MOH wrote: »

Thanks. Great failure to address any of the actual points or engage in any actual discussion. Here's another word for you: troll. It's pretty obvious who those are too.

I think you’ll find the word is deflection with that poster and others. Posters talking out of both side of their mouths on numerous threads.

It’s a good post, they don’t have an answer, deflect, deflect and ignore is all a that left with them.

paw patrol

Boggles wrote: »

GAA and Soccer under 18's has not been closed since March. I've no idea about boxing.

900 cúl camps were ran over the summer with 71,000 kids taking part.

sorry i'm a bit late to this.
GAA was on. This is true.


NON CONTACT training , i'm not GAA master but something tells me that isn't real GAA.
So please stop with your headline statements and see beyond into the actual detail.

paw patrol

Covid is being used in family disputes to attack to other side.

WTF have we become..
https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/90-year-old-man-and-wife-in-her-80s-in-throes-of-divorce-over-bitter-family-dispute-1052997.html

Judge Larkin stated that if people don’t comply with the Covid 19 restrictions, it is a case of “‘keep on enjoying yourselves and you are going to kill your grannies’ -that is what is going to happen”.

:rolleyes:

Captain_Crash

Goldengirl wrote: »

But this evening we now only have 3 adult ICU beds left in Dublin hospitals.

normanoffside wrote: »

How are we doing compared to normal at this time of year?

I remember reading an article from a doctor in CUH around October discussing ICU. It was in response to NPHET saying ICU in the hospital at the time had Covid patients and was full. This resulted in some fearful newspaper articles.

So a doctor done a piece about how they operate ICU. The long and the short of it is they use as many beds as possible at all times as there is no sense in having empty capacity. Many ICU patients are just as well off in critical care beds, which there is no shortage of (14,000) so they try to keep only a small number of ICU beds free and if they need to move anyone to make room there is always plenty of CC beds available (my understanding is a critical care bed is an ICU bed without the bells and whistles).

So Dublin only having 3 beds available means ICU is operating pretty much as normal.

Boggles

Captain_Crash wrote: »

I remember reading an article from a doctor in CUH around October discussing ICU. It was in response to NPHET saying ICU in the hospital at the time had Covid patients and was full. This resulted in some fearful newspaper articles.

So a doctor done a piece about how they operate ICU. The long and the short of it is they use as many beds as possible at all times as there is no sense in having empty capacity. Many ICU patients are just as well off in critical care beds, which there is no shortage of (14,000) so they try to keep only a small number of ICU beds free and if they need to move anyone to make room there is always plenty of CC beds available (my understanding is a critical care bed is an ICU bed without the bells and whistles).

So Dublin only having 3 beds available means ICU is operating pretty much as normal.

The doctor said we have 14,000 Critical Care beds?

PowerToWait

Boggles wrote: »

The doctor said we have 14,000 Critical Care beds?

Ah yeah, roughly, yano yerself.

Might only be 250 according to da gubbermint but shur they’re faking the whole thing. Loads a beds for the fake sick old woulda died soon anyway people. Gives a few pints there.

Captain_Crash

PowerToWait wrote: »

Ah yeah, roughly, yano yerself.

Might only be 250 according to da gubbermint but shur they’re faking the whole thing. Loads a beds for the fake sick old woulda died soon anyway people. Gives a few pints there.

Going off memory, maybe it was 1400! But yeah quite a few!

PowerToWait

It was 255 in 2019.

https://www.hse.ie/eng/about/who/cspd/ncps/critical-care/critical-care-capacity-planning/national-adult-critical-care-capacity-census-2019-report.pdf

Captain_Crash

PowerToWait wrote: »

It was 255 in 2019.

https://www.hse.ie/eng/about/who/cspd/ncps/critical-care/critical-care-capacity-planning/national-adult-critical-care-capacity-census-2019-report.pdf

Must be getting my beds confused, or else she was on about beds in general. Point still stands tho, ICU is operated at near capacity by design so only 3 beds currently being available now in Dublin appears to be normal.

FintanMcluskey

Realistically a massive risk exists without the suppression of social interaction every Winter for a number of years.

It’s surely only right to prevent the few hundred flu deaths we would save

Move Christmas to June and hibernate for Winter

Boggles

paw patrol wrote: »

NON CONTACT training , i'm not GAA master but something tells me that isn't real GAA.

Nope, underage matches were permitted.

paw patrol wrote: »

So please stop with your headline statements and see beyond into the actual detail.

You are the only one making erroneous headline statements.

paw patrol wrote: »

but I mean everything like my kids GAA and boxing (which has been closed since march)

If you did not let you kids participate with the GAA that was your personal choice.

Falsely claiming the GAA wasn't run since March and complaining about it is just bizarre.

Boggles

Captain_Crash wrote: »

Going off memory, maybe it was 1400! But yeah quite a few!

So it's either 14,000, 1,400 or 255.

That clears that up.

Benimar

paw patrol wrote: »

sorry i'm a bit late to this.
GAA was on. This is true.


NON CONTACT training , i'm not GAA master but something tells me that isn't real GAA.
So please stop with your headline statements and see beyond into the actual detail.

Full contact training was allowed in the GAA and by the FAI from mid July until mid October. Matches were also allowed (and many played) during this time.

So yes, REAL sport hasn’t been shut since March.