Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VII *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

suicide_circus

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Realistically a massive risk exists without the suppression of social interaction every Winter for a number of years.

It’s surely only right to prevent the few hundred flu deaths we would save

Move Christmas to June and hibernate for Winter

This is the unavoidable conclusion.

Never mind Christmas, by interacting with other humans at all we invariably give viruses the chance to spread which causes what are avoidable unnecessary deaths aka killing granny

screamer

screamer wrote: »

There’s a reason we’re the safest country in Europe, could you have a guess why???
As someone who had to spend time in hospital recently with no support and no visits allowed even if my spouse, I feel zero sympathy for selfish ****s who flout the restrictions and don’t care about anyone else and act as spreaders of COVID. As long as they exist, and they do in their droves, we will be forced to lockdown various sectors and privileges, and at this stage so be it.
The pressure the nurses are under in hospitals with COVID is shocking, it’s easy to dismiss it till you see it for yourself as I did this week. Fantastic people pushed to their limits, exhausted and working extra and over and beyond due to colleagues coming down with COVID. They deserve our support and respect and solidarity, cause we’re not all in this together, they are at the front line and **** is their thanks for all they are doing. But sure open the pubs.... yada yada, gibsh:tes

At least they are working. 20% of the workforce aren’t.

A lot of people would love to busy instead of having hours a day to wonder if you’ll lose your home.

They have an option to quit if they don’t like that line of work.

Penfailed

PTH2009 wrote: »

One thing that is pissing me off is we have no plans made for the eventual return of crowds to events . This living with covid plan is a farce and does very little for this (Level 1 only permitts what 100 people)

Other countries drew up plans for this

You're missing your big gigs. I am too. I'm not pissed off about there being no plans in place though. What's the point in planning for something such as big gigs with crowds of people in close quarters in a constantly changing environment. Patience. I can't envisage big events in 2021. I hope I'm wrong as I'm supposed to be playing at a festival in June. AC/DC for Slane '22!

Clonmel1000

Does anyone think that coffee shops the normal 9-6 ones will have any chance of remaining open post 30th December or is it a blanket ban across all the industry? Thanks

NIMAN

Are the anti-folk on here watching the news?
You'd think Ireland was the only country having lockdowns.

Most of the major Euro countries are putting new restrictions in place for Xmas, we aren't the only ones.


Germany and Italy are really struggling. The UK has just entered a new level. NI is going into a 6 week one starting on Boxing Day, with a curfew for Week 1 of it.

acequion

Lundstram wrote: »

Frontline my arse, they get paid a wage for doing their job. Our hospitals have seen their questest winter in a very long time. Absolute bullsh1t to suggest their run of their feet piling up dead bodies. Give me a break ffs. I've more respect for hospitality workers who are being treated like utter crap for 9 months now. The downright disrespect for their livelihoods has been a disgrace. I'd like to see €187k per year Dr. Doom live off €205-€350 per week.

The safest country in Europe yes, but the cost and damage that has done to society here won't be felt for a few months yet. You'll change your tune after budget 2022.

I've travelled to two different countries during this and the natives are aghast at our heavy handed restrictions.

Hoolahan been lauded as some sort of modern day saint. That man deserves no accolades, his track record is appalling.

Hear hear. All this hysteria is wearing very thin now and getting very tiresome.

A lot of these people who claim to hold nurses on a pedestal now would quickly turn against them if they dared to strike for better pay and conditions as they did not so long ago. And the vilification of them on threads here on boards at that time was unreal. I have the utmost respect for nurses, but you're completely right that hospitality workers deserve a lot more recognition for all they have endured and will continue to endure with yo yo lockdowns and ott restrictions.

suicide_circus

screamer wrote: »

There’s a reason we’re the safest country in Europe, could you have a guess why???

Yeah, one of the youngest populations.

Zebra3

facehugger99 wrote: »

I wonder is there any chance Dr Doom would fcuk off for a week or so and let people enjoy the Christmas?

Why just a week? :pac:

Clonmel1000

NIMAN wrote: »

Are the anti-folk on here watching the news?
You'd think Ireland was the only country having lockdowns.

Most of the major Euro countries are putting new restrictions in place for Xmas, we aren't the only ones.


Germany and Italy are really struggling. The UK has just entered a new level. NI is going into a 6 week one starting on Boxing Day, with a curfew for Week 1 of it.

What kind of summers did those country’s have just for comparisons sake?

Zebra3

Clonmel1000 wrote: »

What kind of summers did those country’s have just for comparisons sake?

What levels of borrowing have they succumbed to?

normanoffside

Clonmel1000 wrote: »

What kind of summers did those country’s have just for comparisons sake?

Summer?
How's about April all the way through to through to the end of November

Kermit.de.frog

There has been a complete lack of realism from a small minority in relation to the nature and now crucially the longevity of the problems we face.

I mean, we had posters on boards way back in April saying it would all be over within a few weeks.

That level of lack of realism seems to have persisted and I think that is where frustration and anger comes from because people's lives are impacted.

If your expectations are out of sync with the situation you're going to get angry, upset, flustered...this then filters down to looking for scapegoats that don't exist. You can see it in often aggressive streak to some here when responding to otherwise perfectly reasonable posts regarding how we control the situation.

The way forward is to control spread of infection, start vaccination programs and start incrementally opening up as the situation allows. This has to be done while preserving heath services.

That's the only plan available but it takes time and 2021, sorry to say, will be not be very different to 2020 in terms of mitigation measures in society again varied from time to time.

That's just my reading of the situation.

acequion

Clonmel1000 wrote: »

What kind of summers did those country’s have just for comparisons sake?

A lot more open than ours. I think the big difference between ourselves and our European neighbours is that most other Govts have at least tried to balance the interests of all citizens and made a genuine effort to live with Covid. And yes that's a risky endeavor both politically and in health terms but life is full of risks and every citizen should matter. All rights and all interests must be considered and must be balanced.

My big gripe with the Irish Govt is that they will take no risks, especially this new crowd we have since July. They will sacrifice the majority to save a minority. And not because they care about the minority. They want to cover their own political asses and also cover up the shambles that is our health service. It's the proverbial sledgehammer to crack a nut. Meanwhile the collateral damage to society, the economy, mental health piles up.

How history judges the political response to this crisis remains to be seen but many will not forgive or forget.

screamer

Lundstram wrote: »

Frontline my arse, they get paid a wage for doing their job. Our hospitals have seen their questest winter in a very long time. Absolute bullsh1t to suggest their run of their feet piling up dead bodies. Give me a break ffs. I've more respect for hospitality workers who are being treated like utter crap for 9 months now. The downright disrespect for their livelihoods has been a disgrace. I'd like to see €187k per year Dr. Doom live off €205-€350 per week.

The safest country in Europe yes, but the cost and damage that has done to society here won't be felt for a few months yet. You'll change your tune after budget 2022.

I've travelled to two different countries during this and the natives are aghast at our heavy handed restrictions.

Hoolahan been lauded as some sort of modern day saint. That man deserves no accolades, his track record is appalling.

Did I say they were piling up dead bodies? Addicted to the hyperbole much are you? Have you been admitted to a hospital creaking with COVID positive patients, so that you can at least give some insight and not just some opinion??
I don’t like Holohan in the slightest, even before COVID struck, and he certainly deserves no accolades, that much I agree with.

suicide_circus

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

There has been a complete lack of realism from a small minority in relation to the nature and now crucially the longevity of the problems we face.

I mean, we had posters on boards way back in April saying it would all be over within a few weeks.

And we had Tony failing to restrict care home visits and being late to the mask party

GazzaL

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

There has been a complete lack of realism from a small minority in relation to the nature and now crucially the longevity of the problems we face.

I mean, we had posters on boards way back in April saying it would all be over within a few weeks.

That level of lack of realism seems to have persisted and I think that is where frustration and anger comes from because people's lives are impacted.

If your expectations are out of sync with the situation you're going to get angry, upset, flustered...this then filters down to looking for scapegoats that don't exist. You can see it in often aggressive streak to some here when responding to otherwise perfectly reasonable posts regarding how we control the situation.

The way forward is to control spread of infection, start vaccination programs and start incrementally opening up as the situation allows. This has to be done while preserving heath services.

That's the only plan available but it takes time and 2021, sorry to say, will be not be very different to 2020 in terms of mitigation measures in society again varied from time to time.

That's just my reading of the situation.

Most of the people I know have been getting on with their lives and working flat out for the last 6 months. I'll be going away to continental Europe in January with people from Dublin, Belfast, Cork and Donegal. Life goes on.

JRant

NIMAN wrote: »

Are the anti-folk on here watching the news?
You'd think Ireland was the only country having lockdowns.

Most of the major Euro countries are putting new restrictions in place for Xmas, we aren't the only ones.


Germany and Italy are really struggling. The UK has just entered a new level. NI is going into a 6 week one starting on Boxing Day, with a curfew for Week 1 of it.

It's almost as if we've only come out of a 6 week lockdown while those other places were more or less open for that 6 week period and longer.

Kermit.de.frog

suicide_circus wrote: »

And we had Tony failing to restrict care home visits and being late to the mask party

None of that changes the situation now. It's "old man shouts at cloud" stuff.

Penfailed

acequion wrote: »

How history judges the political response to this crisis remains to be seen but many will not forgive or forget.

Yes they will. They always do. FF and FG ad nauseam.

RonaVirus

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

I'm not the one being paranoid about plots and being conspiratorial

The ones who dismiss others as being paranoid are usually the same ones who predict "grim" outcomes every couple of weeks, with these grim outcomes never materialising.

Kermit.de.frog

RonaVirus wrote: »

The ones who dismiss others as being paranoid are usually the same ones who predict "grim" outcomes every couple of weeks, with these grim outcomes never materialising.

I've never predicted any grim outcomes with the presence of mitigation measures. Without those successful measures it would in all likelihood have been grim.

suicide_circus

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

None of that changes the situation now. It's "old man shouts at cloud" stuff.

I think it's reasonable to review a man's resume when he become's the one calling the shots. He has a number of f*ck ups under his belt.

JRant

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

I've never predicted any grim outcomes with the presence of mitigation measures. Without those successful measures it would in all likelihood have been grim.

What measures are the successful ones exactly?

Masks and social distancing don't seem to be enough by themselves for NPHET's liking. There are no crowds allowed at indoor or outdoor events. Intercounty travel hasn't worked. So bar locking everyone away from each other what are the successful measures?

JRant

suicide_circus wrote: »

I think it's reasonable to review a man's resume when he become's the one calling the shots. He has a number of f*ck ups under his belt.

He's completely the wrong man for the job and should have been stood down long ago. The man hasn't an ounce of credibility at this stage.

MadYaker

JRant wrote: »

He's completely the wrong man for the job and should have been stood down long ago. The man hasn't an ounce of credibility at this stage.

Who’s the right man for the job so?

dalyboy

MadYaker wrote: »

Who’s the right man for the job so?

Surely the government can appoint a qualified individual who does not fcuk up so much. They’ve 50 or so other potential candidates on the NPHET panel.

Additionally, Maybe they’ll do the job of cmo instead of seeking limelight adoration

Necro

JRant wrote: »

What measures are the successful ones exactly?

Masks and social distancing don't seem to be enough by themselves for NPHET's liking. There are no crowds allowed at indoor or outdoor events. Intercounty travel hasn't worked. So bar locking everyone away from each other what are the successful measures?

It's kind of a difficult one to quantify.

The countries that opened wide up for the summer are now in the thralls of serious problems with hospitals almost overwhelmed.

Germany as an example had nearly 900 Covid related deaths yesterday, and by and large they would have the best medical facilities certainly in the EU.


The measures we have put in place, while they seem draconian and overbearing have kept the Republic from experiencing these issues.

Even in the North where our own National Ambulance Service has gone to lend a hand this weekend, you had the images of people being treated in the car parks of hospitals as there was no room inside.

The restrictions are an absolute pain in the arse, but in my own opinion they're necessary to avoid such issues happening here.

Penfailed

JRant wrote: »

He's completely the wrong man for the job and should have been stood down long ago. The man hasn't an ounce of credibility at this stage.

He hasn't got credibility with a lot of posters in this thread to be sure. In the real world? I reckon he must be doing okay.

acequion

Necro wrote: »

It's kind of a difficult one to quantify.

The countries that opened wide up for the summer are now in the thralls of serious problems with hospitals almost overwhelmed.

Germany as an example had nearly 900 Covid related deaths yesterday, and by and large they would have the best medical facilities certainly in the EU.


The measures we have put in place, while they seem draconian and overbearing have kept the Republic from experiencing these issues.

Even in the North where our own National Ambulance Service has gone to lend a hand this weekend, you had the images of people being treated in the car parks of hospitals as there was no room inside.

The restrictions are an absolute pain in the arse, but in my own opinion they're necessary to avoid such issues happening here.

While you make good points it's too simplistic to say that we are better off because of all the restrictions. There are many other variables. Population size and population density being two. Countries like France, Holland, Belgium have very high populations and population density, as well as being bang in the middle of Europe sharing borders with many other countries. Germany too though Germany did fare a lot better in the first wave. And just look at how things are at home. The bigger cities with their bigger populations have the highest numbers and the more remote rural counties, the smallest.

However I have never disputed that restrictions keep numbers down. It's the cost of the collateral damage to the wider society that is my gripe. But even with all our restrictions we still have our schools open. Thousands of adults and youngsters milling around indoor centres every day and it hasn't caused any meaningful spike.

Hence my point that restrictions alone are not the reason for lower numbers.

fin12

Penfailed wrote: »

He hasn't got credibility with a lot of posters in this thread to be sure. In the real world? I reckon he must be doing okay.

I’m pretty sure the victims of cervical check and their families in the real world would disagree with u.

Mod: Banned - there are numerous warnings about this already, stop bringing it into the discussion