Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VII *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

Micky 32

MadYaker wrote: »

Reality isn't welcome in this thread.

You got that right, goes both ways. I’m not either anti restrictions or am i on the lockdown brigade board but the reality of constant lockdowns consequences isn’t welcome on this thread either.

acequion

Necro wrote: »

Doesn't change the fact though that imposing restrictions = drop in cases. Which in turn decreases the pressure on health services.

Hence we're on this rollercoaster till vaccine supply equals demand, or the very vulnerable are vaccinated at the very least.

Yes and again I stated in my original post that I never disputed the effectiveness of restrictions to reduce numbers. However restrictions can be done more fairly and more creatively to give more balance and more in the line of living with covid and not hiding from it.

But that isn't my main point at all. My main point is that other factors impact on case numbers, not just restrictions or the lack or level of them. Somehow I have to keep repeating myself here.

funnydoggy

Anyone have that Twitter post from a radio station up north, where a woman rings up and says that "you might get blown up but at least you didn't get the COVID" or something like that? :pac:

Penfailed

funnydoggy wrote: »

Anyone have that Twitter post from a radio station up north, where a woman rings up and says that "you might get blown up but at least you didn't get the COVID" or something like that? :pac:

It was posted earlier in this thread somewhere. I actually heard it live. I burst out laughing in the car. Yer woman wasn't being serious. She's a character.

JRant

Necro wrote: »

It's kind of a difficult one to quantify.

The countries that opened wide up for the summer are now in the thralls of serious problems with hospitals almost overwhelmed.

Germany as an example had nearly 900 Covid related deaths yesterday, and by and large they would have the best medical facilities certainly in the EU.


The measures we have put in place, while they seem draconian and overbearing have kept the Republic from experiencing these issues.

Even in the North where our own National Ambulance Service has gone to lend a hand this weekend, you had the images of people being treated in the car parks of hospitals as there was no room inside.

The restrictions are an absolute pain in the arse, but in my own opinion they're necessary to avoid such issues happening here.

I've not meet anyone that doesn't think some level of restrictions are required, after all, our health service is a mess. My biggest gripe with the whole thing is the constant chopping and changing of what is actually required. Amd even worse, we are given no real data as to the why.

Localised lockdowns - a figment of NPHET'S imagination.
5 level plan - in the bin the day it was released
Masks - no use until they were essential
Nolan claiming on Twitter that this surge is being caused by social gatherings, etc when the evidence he presented shows schools are a main driver (which I'm fine with keeping open by the way)
Arbitrary numbers being plucked from thin air by Tony and Co to justify more severe restrictions.

I could go on but the truth is they have created a muddled mess and really failed to get on point over this past few months.

funnydoggy

Penfailed wrote: »

It was posted earlier in this thread somewhere. I actually heard it live. I burst out laughing in the car. Yer woman wasn't being serious. She's a character.

I'm laughing even thinking of it

normanoffside

JRant wrote: »

I could go on but the truth is they have created a muddled mess and really failed to get on point over this past few months.

Yes they are extremely quick to contradict themselves.

They say they are reluctant to give details of specific outbreaks so as not to identify individuals, Yet I remember in June they were quick to point out a travel related cluster in Sligo which immediately identified the individuals involved.

They say we shouldn't blame specific groups but are very quick to wag the fingers at people travelling and at the hospitality industry, slow to blame Hospital or school outbreaks.

JRant

normanoffside wrote: »

Yes they are extremely quick to contradict themselves.

They say they are reluctant to give details of specific outbreaks so as not to identify individuals, Yet I remember in June they were quick to point out a travel related cluster in Sligo which immediately identified the individuals involved.

They say we shouldn't blame specific groups but are very quick to wag the fingers at people travelling and at the hospitality industry, slow to blame Hospital or school outbreaks.

Oh yeah, work parties and social gatherings are the latest patsy's. In fact they'll blame everything else bar schools mad hospital's for being responsible for a lot of our cases.

Goldengirl

JRant wrote: »

Oh yeah, work parties and social gatherings are the latest patsy's. In fact they'll blame everything else bar schools mad hospital's for being responsible for a lot of our cases.

These areas are not " responsible " for the outbreaks as they are adhering quite publicly to all the rules though.
It's the areas that don't take care and / or the people that frequent them that are responsible for infections , if indeed anyone is .

CruelSummer

https://twitter.com/president_mu/status/1340368590470590464?s=21

Professor Philip Nolan is now gravely concerned...

BryanMartin21

He is such a tool. I am looking at the HPSC data and it shows that we are going to have 600 deaths under the age of 85 in the year to March "with" covid. 600 in a year! It beggars belief that people think this is a harmful virus as the data doesn't show this.

The higher cases the more the data shows they are completely overreacting. That is why they are so "concerned".

Anyway, I have met most of my close friends in the last few days and have a big family dinner on the 25th I'm now looking forward to so am not too bothered by what they spout on Twitter or pay the media to publish.

With covid it is literally the case where you don't read the media and you don't notice it. The hysterics can cry online and in NPHET but I haven't met anyone too concerned for months now.

Kermit.de.frog

CruelSummer wrote: »

https://twitter.com/president_mu/status/1340368590470590464?s=21

Professor Philip Nolan is now gravely concerned...

We are heading in the wrong direction at a decent clip.

Goldengirl

acequion wrote: »

A gross over generalisation. This trying to pigeon hole all the anti draconian restriction people as just hankering after the pub is getting very tiresome. As well as tunnel visioned. I've stated here in my posts that I never go to pubs, not my scene at all. But I can certainly empathise with pub frequenters and pub owners.

I go to the pubs, as do my friends , but not since restrictions .
So I don't sympathise with those who are whinging because they can't go to the pub.
I do however sympathise greatly with pub owners and those who work in them and hospitality and non essential retail in general who have lost their jobs or livelihoods because of this virus. I also fully support continuing support and payments to help anyone get through this and also to get back on their feet when the situation eases after vaccinations .
Yes , if this means higher taxes, so be it .
I have a lot more sympathy for my nursing and medical colleagues and all those working through this pandemic and exposed to it, in essential retail or public services , no choice whether to go to work or not .
While some others who are wfh and have lost nothing but the ability to move freely, whinge and moan about restrictions and bash those doing their best to either keep them safe or are doing their best in a difficult situation.
I know it is hard to be confined, that people are having an awful year , but as with degrees of pain and suffering , there are also limits to the amount of sympathy there is to go around .

Not saying everybody anti restrictions on here are in the latter group .
Some people are venting online but in reality just need to keep in contact with other human beings and miss that contact socially , but the constant anti public service and health service bashing is hard to take.
So no , not pigeon holing anti restrictions supporters into one group , but are you not pigeon holing all those in favour of restrictions into a particular stereotype when referring to people as scaremongers or curtain twitchers ?
I would class my posts generally as just straight realism , what I see everyday .
However as I said in a previous post ,I do accept this is not everybody's reality in this .
But that does not mean that I am wrong to say what I see happening.

normanoffside

CruelSummer wrote: »

https://twitter.com/president_mu/status/1340368590470590464?s=21

Professor Philip Nolan is now gravely concerned...

Wow, that's the second highest level of the concern'o'meter.
It's been pointed out on the main thread that 300 positive swabs from the last few haven't been announced yet, expect 1000+ on Monday due to the backlog and strong 'recommendations' as a result

BryanMartin21

normanoffside wrote: »

Wow, that's the second highest level of the concern'o'meter.
It's been pointed out on the main thread that 300 positive swabs from the last few haven't been announced yet, expect 1000+ on Monday due to the backlog and strong 'recommendations' as a result

Jesus, they wouldn't be controlling the reporting of the data in order to sell a fear narrative by any chance?

Goldengirl

acequion wrote: »

Yes and again I stated in my original post that I never disputed the effectiveness of restrictions to reduce numbers. However restrictions can be done more fairly and more creatively to give more balance and more in the line of living with covid and not hiding from it.

But that isn't my main point at all. My main point is that other factors impact on case numbers, not just restrictions or the lack or level of them. Somehow I have to keep repeating myself here.

So what do you think would be more creative and effective way of reducing the impact on case numbers then ?
I haven't read anything yet to propose a more sustainable model , that will keep numbers down and infections low here .
Except for lock the vulnerable up , which is neither viable , acceptable nor sustainable .

FintanMcluskey

Goldengirl wrote: »

I go to the pubs, as do my friends , but not since restrictions .
So I don't sympathise with those who are whinging because they can't go to the pub.
I do however sympathise greatly with pub owners and those who work in them and hospitality and non essential retail in general who have lost their jobs or livelihoods because of this virus. I also fully support continuing support and payments to help anyone get through this and also to get back on their feet when the situation eases after vaccinations .
Yes , if this means higher taxes, so be it .
I have a lot more sympathy for my nursing and medical colleagues and all those working through this pandemic and exposed to it, in essential retail or public services , no choice whether to go to work or not .
While some others who are wfh and have lost nothing but the ability to move freely, whinge and moan about restrictions and bash those doing their best to either keep them safe or are doing their best in a difficult situation.
I know it is hard to be confined, that people are having an awful year , but as with degrees of pain and suffering , there are also limits to the amount of sympathy there is to go around .

Not saying everybody anti restrictions on here are in the latter group .
Some people are venting online but in reality just need to keep in contact with other human beings and miss that contact socially , but the constant anti public service and health service bashing is hard to take.
So no , not pigeon holing anti restrictions supporters into one group , but are you not pigeon holing all those in favour of restrictions into a particular stereotype when referring to people as scaremongers or curtain twitchers ?
I would class my posts generally as just straight realism , what I see everyday .
However as I said in a previous post ,I do accept this is not everybody's reality in this .
But that does not mean that I am wrong to say what I see happening.

What’s the quantifiable point when social interaction can occur?

I’m thinking someone somewhere will have to define an acceptable number of deaths from other respiratory illnesses so social interaction can occur.

Goldengirl

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

What’s the quantifiable point when social interaction can occur?

I’m thinking someone somewhere will have to define an acceptable number of deaths from other respiratory illnesses so social interaction can occur.

I don't know to be honest .
Probably wrong person to ask.
I would be saying no more than annual flu deaths but even that might be unacceptable to some

BryanMartin21

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

What’s the quantifiable point when social interaction can occur?

I’m thinking someone somewhere will have to define an acceptable number of deaths from other respiratory illnesses so social interaction can occur.

I am not sure why we don't have data quantified for each of the 5 levels of living with covid.

Travel has a traffic light system based on cases per 100k population over a 2 week period. Surely levels 1 - 5 could follow the same guideline?

The doomers never seem to answer this and Baby Doomer Holohan is adamant it is only about lockdown or nothing.

Scuid Mhór

BryanMartin21 wrote: »

He is such a tool. I am looking at the HPSC data and it shows that we are going to have 600 deaths under the age of 85 in the year to March "with" covid. 600 in a year! It beggars belief that people think this is a harmful virus as the data doesn't show this.

... do you not think that it might be considered a "harmful virus" because it caused 600 people under the age of 85 to die who wouldn't have otherwise? If you made up one of those six hundred, you might have a different opinion.

BryanMartin21

Scuid Mhór wrote: »

... do you not think that it might be considered a "harmful virus" because it caused 600 people under the age of 85 to die who wouldn't have otherwise? If you made up one of those six hundred, you might have a different opinion.

This is a restrictions thread. The context for my statement is the locking down of all of society and the economy for 9 months based on something with those numbers. It is a total overreaction unless you think that we should be also employing restrictions during the typical ****show in hospitals during the average flu season where we have severe trolley crises.

GreeBo

acequion wrote: »

And my point was, if you read my original post clearly, that there are too many variables and too many differences between countries to pinpoint restrictions or lack of as being the only explanation for high or low incidence. I pointed out population size, population density, proximity to land borders as also having a big bearing. You even said yourself in your first post on the subject that it's difficult to quantify. And I fully agree that it is.

But all those lauding restrictions as the sole reason our numbers are not too high are not looking at the bigger picture.

So why do our numbers go up without restrictions and down when they are in force? Which of your other factors are having the big bearing on our numbers?
Restrictions are the only thing that's changing the numbers.

acequion

Goldengirl wrote: »

So what do you think would be more creative and effective way of reducing the impact on case numbers then ?
I haven't read anything yet to propose a more sustainable model , that will keep numbers down and infections low here .
Except for lock the vulnerable up , which is neither viable , acceptable nor sustainable .

Localised restrictions instead of a blanket level 5.

Curfews on restaurant times instead of wholescale shut downs. And perhaps something similar with the so called wet pubs.

Perhaps a more lenient level 3 where hospitality could operate as well as the more personal services like gyms, beauticians, hairdressers.

It's quite possible that yo yo lockdowns are causing these constant spikes as in people behaving like caged animals when let out. Which is most likely what will happen now at xmas. If services were allowed to continue, albeit in a more limited way, people wouldn't behave as frantically.

Just some ideas as to how it could be done.

Scuid Mhór

BryanMartin21 wrote: »

This is a restrictions thread. The context for my statement is the locking down of all of society and the economy for 9 months based on something with those numbers. It is a total overreaction unless you think that we should be also employing restrictions during the typical ****show in hospitals during the average flu season where we have severe trolley crises.

Thank you for pointing out the context of the thread, I didn't actually realised I was clicking on the "relaxation of restrictions" thread when clicked on it :rolleyes:

That doesn't make any sense. The average flu season mortality rate doesn't come close to what Covid's mortality rate would be if it was let fester untethered.

BryanMartin21

Scuid Mhór wrote: »

Thank you for pointing out the context of the thread, I didn't actually realised I was clicking on the "relaxation of restrictions" thread when clicked on it :rolleyes:

That doesn't make any sense. The average flu season mortality rate doesn't come close to what Covid's mortality rate would be if it was let fester untethered.

Flu is less harmful than covid, considering we have a vaccine for the flu and not covid. This is what the data shows as far as I can see.

GreeBo

BryanMartin21 wrote: »

I am not sure why we don't have data quantified for each of the 5 levels of living with covid.

Travel has a traffic light system based on cases per 100k population over a 2 week period. Surely levels 1 - 5 could follow the same guideline?

The doomers never seem to answer this and Baby Doomer Holohan is adamant it is only about lockdown or nothing.

We could possibly have data points if people actually followed the restrictions and advice, but when you have bar hosts welcoming regulars with hugs and group photos, well you have to wonder just how dumb a nation we really are.

GreeBo

acequion wrote: »

It's quite possible that yo yo lockdowns are causing these constant spikes as in people behaving like caged animals when let out. Which is most likely what will happen now at xmas. If services were allowed to continue, albeit in a more limited way, people wouldn't behave as frantically.
.

But why should we have to accept people behaving like frantic animals? Our lockdowns could have been much worse, we never had a curfew for example.

BryanMartin21

GreeBo wrote: »

We could possibly have data points if people actually followed the restrictions and advice, but when you have bar hosts welcoming regulars with hugs and group photos, well you have to wonder just how dumb a nation we really are.

What advice?

Keep meat plants open despite them having no social distancing practices?

Don't ban travel into the country but ban people from going more than 5km from their home?

Masks don't do much if not medical grade or warn properly so shouldn't be mandatory?

Visit nursing homes, they're grand?

BryanMartin21

GreeBo wrote: »

But why should we have to accept people behaving like frantic animals? Our lockdowns could have been much worse, we never had a curfew for example.

You can hide in your attic if you're that terrified.

Our lockdowns could have been "much worse"?! Deluded, seriously, you're deluded.

normanoffside

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

We are heading in the wrong direction at a decent clip.

Yeah I know, it's terrible. The more people that have covid, the more people die with covid (or as they now say in the HSPC announcements 'deaths related to covid').

Meanwhile less people people will die overall than in normal winter and more people will die from suicide.
Others will have their lives destroyed resulting in future suicides and thousands of people will die from cancers and other diseases that weren't detected due to covid fears and restrictions.
But sure, it's all good as long as we keep our deaths' 'related to covid' down. Then Tony and Phillip can get their gold stars.


https://twitter.com/SepsisUK/status/1340297711883567108