Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VII *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

BryanMartin21

That's literally what it's all about. Tony and his mob afraid that word will spread that Ireland is not in a lockdown while everywhere else is so then when we have an inevitable increase in cases in a few weeks as is natural with restrictions eased (but which are utterly meaningless figures by themselves) he won't look like the knobhead he is to the other health authorities in Europe, which is what he is so "concerned" about. He's throwing all his toys out of the pram because Ireland isn't in lockdown like everywhere else.

Juwwi

BryanMartin21 wrote: »

With covid it is literally the case where you don't read the media and you don't notice it. The hysterics can cry online and in NPHET but I haven't met anyone too concerned for months now.

You seemed to join boards to spend time talking about covid tho which seems contradicting ?

acequion

GreeBo wrote: »

So why do our numbers go up without restrictions and down when they are in force? Which of your other factors are having the big bearing on our numbers?
Restrictions are the only thing that's changing the numbers.

Our numbers yes. But our numbers were never anywhere near those in densely populated countries of big populations. And that's what I mean by variables. Calculating numbers per head of the population is fine, making bald comparisons between our case numbers and places like France is like comparing apples and oranges.

For example how many people on the continent live in appartments compared to here? A lot more is the answer. Even in smaller towns and cities all throughout Europe there is a high rate of appartment dwelling, much more so than here. So a lot more people sharing communal services than here, a lot more people packed into tighter spaces. Also, continental Europe is one big land mass, hence much more movement.

These are the variables I'm talking about. Not just restrictions. The only restrictions which very effectively control numbers are the type of lockdowns imposed in continental Europe in the spring, where literally everything was shut down and people as good as imprisoned in their homes.

acequion

GreeBo wrote: »

But why should we have to accept people behaving like frantic animals? Our lockdowns could have been much worse, we never had a curfew for example.

Because that's how people are. That's human nature. Give a thirsty man a drink and he'll gulp it down. Give food to the starving and they'll devour it.

I'm uncomfortable with your, "Why do we have to accept" bit? What do you propose? Arrest people for their enthusiasm at being given back some freedom??

normanoffside

121million people pushed to the brink of starvation due to covid restrictions according to Oxfam

https://time.com/5864803/oxfam-hunger-covid-19/

10,000 children dying per month of hunger due to covid restrictions

https://apnews.com/article/lifestyle-ap-top-news-understanding-the-outbreak-hunger-international-news-5cbee9693c52728a3808f4e7b4965cbd

None of that matters though, lock it down and PUP for the wealthy countries

Goldengirl

acequion wrote: »

Localised restrictions instead of a blanket level 5.

Curfews on restaurant times instead of wholescale shut downs. And perhaps something similar with the so called wet pubs.

Perhaps a more lenient level 3 where hospitality could operate as well as the more personal services like gyms, beauticians, hairdressers.

It's quite possible that yo yo lockdowns are causing these constant spikes as in people behaving like caged animals when let out. Which is most likely what will happen now at xmas. If services were allowed to continue, albeit in a more limited way, people wouldn't behave as frantically.

Just some ideas as to how it could be done.

I agree with you on all but levels have to be lower going into that as there would be the inevitable rise, albeit slower .
That is what happened this last time, but the Christmas panic/ mania didn't help either .
Stricter controls on problem areas with more tracing back to source would be good too.

Birdie Num Num

GreeBo wrote: »

But why should we have to accept people behaving like frantic animals? Our lockdowns could have been much worse, we never had a curfew for example.

Did we even have a lockdown?

average_runner

normanoffside wrote: »

121million people pushed to the brink of starvation due to covid restrictions according to Oxfam

https://time.com/5864803/oxfam-hunger-covid-19/

10,000 children dying per month of hunger due to covid restrictions

https://apnews.com/article/lifestyle-ap-top-news-understanding-the-outbreak-hunger-international-news-5cbee9693c52728a3808f4e7b4965cbd

None of that matters though, lock it down and PUP for the wealthy countries

Nothing to.do with the governments of those countries?

Bukrina faso was in the middle of a famine before covid. You want to blame covid for 2018, 2019 also?

pjohnson

average_runner wrote: »

Nothing to.do with the governments of those countries?

Bukrina faso was in the middle of a famine before covid. You want to blame covid for 2018, 2019 also?

I guess covid was also responsible for the Ethiopian famine in the 80's. Geldof just kept it secret.

GreeBo

BryanMartin21 wrote: »

You can hide in your attic if you're that terrified.

Our lockdowns could have been "much worse"?! Deluded, seriously, you're deluded.

Eh what?
You don't think a curfew would be worse than anything we have had so far? How many other countries have restrictions worse than ours?

GreeBo

acequion wrote: »

Our numbers yes. But our numbers were never anywhere near those in densely populated countries of big populations. And that's what I mean by variables. Calculating numbers per head of the population is fine, making bald comparisons between our case numbers and places like France is like comparing apples and oranges.

For example how many people on the continent live in appartments compared to here? A lot more is the answer. Even in smaller towns and cities all throughout Europe there is a high rate of appartment dwelling, much more so than here. So a lot more people sharing communal services than here, a lot more people packed into tighter spaces. Also, continental Europe is one big land mass, hence much more movement.

These are the variables I'm talking about. Not just restrictions. The only restrictions which very effectively control numbers are the type of lockdowns imposed in continental Europe in the spring, where literally everything was shut down and people as good as imprisoned in their homes.

Ignore other countries, compare Irelands numbers now to during either lockdown.

GreeBo

BryanMartin21 wrote: »

What advice?

Keep meat plants open despite them having no social distancing practices?

Don't ban travel into the country but ban people from going more than 5km from their home?

Masks don't do much if not medical grade or warn properly so shouldn't be mandatory?

Visit nursing homes, they're grand?

What percentage of cases are traced to social interactions between households compared to anything else?

Tbh you are just having a rant for unknown reasons. Do you also shout at clouds?

Necro

acequion wrote: »

Localised restrictions instead of a blanket level 5.

Curfews on restaurant times instead of wholescale shut downs. And perhaps something similar with the so called wet pubs.

Perhaps a more lenient level 3 where hospitality could operate as well as the more personal services like gyms, beauticians, hairdressers.

It's quite possible that yo yo lockdowns are causing these constant spikes as in people behaving like caged animals when let out. Which is most likely what will happen now at xmas. If services were allowed to continue, albeit in a more limited way, people wouldn't behave as frantically.

Just some ideas as to how it could be done.

The trouble with localised restrictions is enforcement, also the fact that we are a very small country. People were up in arms when the likes of Dublin, Donegal and Cavan got slammed into level 3 so I'm not sure it makes any tangible difference.

Look at the UK just yesterday - putting localised restrictions in caused mass panic - people rushing out to get shopping, or just get the flock out of Tier 4:

https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/18957636.coronavirus-large-crowds-gather-st-pancras-flee-tough-tier-4-christmas-restrictions-london/

The curfew thing I actually agree with, but it would need to be done in tangent with off licence closures to avoid the inevitable 'ah shure we'll have a few in my gaff' afterwards. I was posting about this in September with regards to normal, non-food pubs (cos Feck that wet pub shizazz) - opening times from 12 noon to 9pm with off sales closed from 8pm to avoid that last dash.

That ties into the level 3 idea, expecting pubs to operate outdoors only in winter is mental, and it's one thing I have an issue with certainly.

I see what you are saying about the yo-yo lockdowns, but that comes down to personal responsibility from business owners, and indeed the general public too.

Was there any real need for Penneys, as an example - to open for 72 hrs straight in some locations? Also common sense *should* dictate if you see large crowds at a shop - don't bloody start queuing with them with a highly transmissible virus pandemic rampaging throughout the globe.

The flip side of the coin is that there has to be some easing at some point, this thread is already annoyed enough - imagine we were all in sustained lockdown since last March :eek:

BryanMartin21

GreeBo wrote: »

What percentage of cases are traced to social interactions between households compared to anything else?

Tbh you are just having a rant for unknown reasons. Do you also shout at clouds?

Social interactions happen when we have restrictions on businesses imposed. Closing everything while everyone is still off work over Christmas means people are going to be doing house parties instead of going out to restaurants.

I don't like an unelected group making decisions to shut down the economy and society despite only being concerned with covid and not anything else, especially anything non-health related. The government, should they try and take NPHET as advisors, get subject to pressure from Nolan and his little inaccurate models as well as a big advertising ("awareness") media budget used by NPHET to try to force the government's hand.

Again, data we have from HPSC shows that covid is not very harmful and this message is lost on some people. There are perfectly fine people who think it is luck if you get severe symptoms or not! It certainly does not require the severe social and economic restrictions being imposed. It's so bizarre why these are being imposed. I work in a fairly large finance company in Dublin City centre, working back in the office for 6 months now so out and about almost like normal and do not encounter anyone who seems to genuinely be too concerned with covid. The only concern comes from the corporate arse-covering but not from the personal level. I'm just baffled by what I read online and see in the media as it doesn't reflect real life.

normanoffside

average_runner wrote: »

Nothing to.do with the governments of those countries?

Bukrina faso was in the middle of a famine before covid. You want to blame covid for 2018, 2019 also?

What western countries do in terms of restrictions has direct knock on effects to the economies of third world countries. It’s the reason why WHO was urging no more lockdowns

Captain_Crash

average_runner wrote: »

Nothing to.do with the governments of those countries?

Bukrina faso was in the middle of a famine before covid. You want to blame covid for 2018, 2019 also?

It’s not that they didn’t have issues before, it’s that many of those countries were receiving aid from western countries which has now been reduced or eliminated. Resulting in increased deaths from starvation!

Boggles

normanoffside wrote: »

What western countries do in terms of restrictions has direct knock on effects to the economies of third world countries. It’s the reason why WHO was urging no more lockdowns

What would be the knock on effects for these places if a country allowed it's health care system and economy collapse?

Do you the likes of the UK and Germany should not be introducing restrictions because it may have a negative effect on Yemen?

average_runner

Captain_Crash wrote: »

It’s not that they didn’t have issues before, it’s that many of those countries were receiving aid from western countries which has now been reduced or eliminated. Resulting in increased deaths from starvation!

So maybe it's time their own governments look after them. We have to look after our own right now. We will help when we can.

FintanMcluskey

Boggles wrote: »

What would be the knock on effects for these places if a country allowed it's health care system and economy collapse?

Do you the likes of the UK and Germany should not be introducing restrictions because it may have a negative effect on Yemen?

Covid is a first world problem.

If a nations healthcare achieves life expectancies of 75+ Mr Covid will real havoc among those approaching the end of their natural lives.

We most prolong those first world lives at the cost of a few million kids in countries that many don’t know how to pronounce.

While pontificating of course about saving lives

normanoffside

Boggles wrote: »

What would be the knock on effects for these places if a country allowed it's health care system and economy collapse?

Where, other that northern Italy at the start of March, has a western healthcare system collapsed? Even one os bad as ours has done fine.

Boggles

normanoffside wrote: »

Where, other that northern Italy at the start of March, has a western healthcare system collapsed? Even one os bad as ours has done fine.

Would that be anything to do with restrictions?

But again if you could answer the question.

What would be the knock on effects for these places if a country allowed it's health care system and economy collapse?

There is a very good reason you are told put on your own mask first in the event of a emergency mid flight.

average_runner

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Covid is a first world problem.

If a nations healthcare achieves life expectancies of 75+ Mr Covid will real havoc among those approaching the end of their natural lives.

We most prolong those first world lives at the cost of a few million kids in countries that many don’t know how to pronounce.

While pontificating of course about saving lives

You were already costing kids lives in these countries before covid started.

You still will after covid.

average_runner

Boggles wrote: »

Would that be anything to do with restrictions?

But again if you could answer the question.



There is a very good reason you are told put on your own mask first in the event of a emergency mid flight.

He should just wait till it hits the ground

normanoffside

Boggles wrote: »

Would that be anything to do with restrictions?

But again if you could answer the question.



There is a very good reason you are told put on your own mask first in the event of a emergency mid flight.

I won't answer the question because I don't think it would happen.

And we are letting our economy collapse despite the healthcare systems not collapsing which is a direct cause of millions of people starving in the third world.

average_runner

normanoffside wrote: »

I won't answer the question because I don't think it would happen.

And we are letting our economy collapse despite the healthcare systems not collapsing which is a direct cause of millions of people starving in the third world.

So we are 9 months into and it hasn't collapsed.

normanoffside

I see Tony is using twitter again to contradict government policy.

Government has deemed it appropriate for restaurants to be open and Tony tells us all not to go there anyway

https://twitter.com/CMOIreland/status/1340580515351568385

FintanMcluskey

average_runner wrote: »

You were already costing kids lives in these countries before covid started.

You still will after covid.

Old people died before Covid.

They will die at the same rate after.

Kids can be saved

FintanMcluskey

normanoffside wrote: »

I see Tony is using twitter again to contradict government policy.

Government has deemed it appropriate for restaurants to be open and Tony tells us all not to go there anyway

https://twitter.com/CMOIreland/status/1340580515351568385

He is determined to destroy the hospitality industry.

Must have a personal vendetta against someone

average_runner

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Old people died before Covid.

They will die at the same rate after.

Kids can be saved

So why didnt you save them before this?

average_runner

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

He is determined to destroy the hospitality industry.

Must have a personal vendetta against someone

So are the Irish people. Cases going up once we moved out of level 5, we were meant to keep social contacts low and we didnt. Not the restaurants or shops fault, but our fault