Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VII *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

Windmill100000

cena wrote: »

Are we going back into level 5?

Sadly I think we will, based purely on case numbers, not deaths.

murpho999

Windmill100000 wrote: »

I think it's easy for people to say lockdown when they are not impacted too much. I have my job, I'm good, I can afford to pay my mortgage and no real hardship beyond manageable stress and worry.

But for those whose livelihoods are on the line, whose jobs have gone with a shrinking level of job prospects on the horizon, those staying in abusive relationships, those dealing with mental health problems and suicide of family members, how do they feel about lockdown?

I think if I was in the latter group I'd have a different view about staying home and staying cosy and safe.

Ok, so having all pubs, shops open and inter-county travel is going to solve people's problems with abusive relationships and menal health problems?

average_runner

Windmill100000 wrote: »

I think it's easy for people to say lockdown when they are not impacted too much. I have my job, I'm good, I can afford to pay my mortgage and no real hardship beyond manageable stress and worry.

But for those whose livelihoods are on the line, whose jobs have gone with a shrinking level of job prospects on the horizon, those staying in abusive relationships, those dealing with mental health problems and suicide of family members, how do they feel about lockdown?

I think if I was in the latter group I'd have a different view about staying home and staying cosy and safe.

All good points, but sadly we went from level 5 to level 3, allowed things to open and asked to keep social contacts low.


Now either

a) The reopening of stuff not open in level 5 cause the rise
b) people didn't keep a low social contact group.


I personally believe its 'b' from what i saw. B seems to only think of themselves and not people who are in a bad situation.


We helped out a friend for xmas this year as a few things went wrong on them.

Allinall

weldoninhio wrote: »

Yet again, for those at the back, his role is to ADVISE THE GOVERNMENT. He can do that in government buildings. He is NOT a government spokesman. No part of his job entails going onto chat shows, that just seems to be a hobby/vanity project.

Did you just make this up?

Or were you on the interview panel when he got the job?

Windmill100000

murpho999 wrote: »

Ok, so having all pubs, shops open and inter-county travel is going to solve people's problems with abusive relationships and menal health problems?

Nothing will solve all people's problems.

average_runner

Windmill100000 wrote: »

Sadly I think we will, based purely on case numbers, not deaths.

You can't wait for the death numbers to go up s then it be too late. Got to strike early.


Germany waited and they had higher deaths this time than they had last April!

murpho999

Windmill100000 wrote: »

Nothing will solve all people's problems.

Exactly, so it's impossible to find a perfect solution and nor can you make loads of exceptions.

It's a very difficult call that of course is going to have negative impacts on people but to me it's no co-incidence that case numbers increase both times after restrictions were relaxed.

Eric Cartman

murpho999 wrote: »

Exactly, so it's impossible to find a perfect solution and nor can you make loads of exceptions.

It's a very difficult call that of course is going to have negative impacts on people but to me it's no co-incidence that case numbers increase both times after restrictions were relaxed.

Absolutely not, the shops have been a disgrace, the coffee, the queues, the people piling on each other on south william street with the takeaway pints. But i think the pubs have become like the icrecream polio false causality, they are distanced, sanitised, screened, masked etc... the pubs are presenting way less problematic environs that most clothes stores yet are the quickest target for closure

Windmill100000

murpho999 wrote: »

Exactly, so it's impossible to find a perfect solution and nor can you make loads of exceptions.

It's a very difficult call that of course is going to have negative impacts on people but to me it's no co-incidence that case numbers increase both times after restrictions were relaxed.

Well obviously case numbers will increase when restrictions relax. I don't think anyone is going to disagree with that. But do we stay in lockdown and deal with the significant other crises that result from it knowing that in spite of cases the vast majority of people do not die or are even hospitalised?

I see your points, I really do. I think we are just looking at this whole situation differently which is fine. I respect your position.

TomSweeney

Genuine question.

Let's say by summer , or by whenever they have most old/vulnerable vaccinated - what then ?
In theory hospitals won't be slammed so they should life restrictions ... but do people honestly think they will ?

Will they stop asking children to wear masks in school ? - or will they shift the goalposts, saying restrictions aren't there to protect hospitals being overrun but just to stop all spread of the virus.

We know zero covid is impossible - look at Australia and NZ, so what does this mean ?


I really want to be wrong here, I really do ...

weldoninhio

Allinall wrote: »

Did you just make this up?

Or were you on the interview panel when he got the job?

No but I can read a policy document. :rolleyes: It's a government document, so free for anyone to read. No mention of chat shows or the Late Late Show in it at all.

Sofa King Great

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Absolutely not, the shops have been a disgrace, the coffee, the queues, the people piling on each other on south william street with the takeaway pints. But i think the pubs have become like the icrecream polio false causality, they are distanced, sanitised, screened, masked etc... the pubs are presenting way less problematic environs that most clothes stores yet are the quickest target for closure

Do you honestly believe that clothes stores are more problematic than pubs? Like really honestly?

SusieBlue

SAMTALK wrote: »

I haven't seen this on any media

They have been continuously overstating and dramatising the threat on a daily basis since all this kicked off. Up until pretty recently they were still insisting that the looming threat of hundreds of thousands of deaths and millions of cases were a possibility when that isn’t the case at all.
They implied healthy young people were at severe risk of death long after it was clear that statistically this isn’t true.
They promoted the idea that giving your grandparent a hug made you a selfish granny killer.
They have perpetuated the notion that any form of social contact is extremely dangerous, reckless and selfish (see Tony’s tweets this week urging people to stay at home, and not see family or visit restaurants/shops, even though we aren’t in lockdown).

They showed videos of people literally dropping dead on the streets of China, some of which weren’t even legit, in order to put the fear into people.
They have been laying on the doom and negativity non stop, with any remotely positive news cast aside and given little to no publicity.
A pessimistic spin is put on pretty much everything, from low case numbers to the vaccination.
If you refuse to acknowledge this then I simply cannot help you.

risteard7

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

China back to normal is proof positive that lockdown works. We haven't had the stomach for the actions required to tackle this thing.

An urban population of 11 million versus 160,000 in rural Donegal. Yeah ok so.

murpho999

Allinall wrote: »

Did you just make this up?

Or were you on the interview panel when he got the job?

No of course it's not made up.

It's public knowledge that part of the CMO's role is to advise.

From CMO's own website:

Advice on issues relating to work and health

Link

Government can choose to accept, ignore or adapt the advice as they have done in the past and like they're doing now. The CMO's advised Level 5 which they're not doing.

average_runner

average_runner wrote: »

All good points, but sadly we went from level 5 to level 3, allowed things to open and asked to keep social contacts low.


Now either

a) The reopening of stuff not open in level 5 cause the rise
b) people didn't keep a low social contact group.


I personally believe its 'b' from what i saw. B seems to only think of themselves and not people who are in a bad situation.


We helped out a friend for xmas this year as a few things went wrong on them.

I dont think anyone can say who or what's driving it from a societal view as the data could not explain the spread in about 40% of instances and still cannot, why do you think it's lockdown 5 every time. They should consider no matter what, as they said in the beginning, this cannot be stopped but only drawn out #flattenthecurve #we'reallinthistogether :rolleyes:

Bobeagleburger

cena wrote: »

Are we going back into level 5?

Definitely. Government will probably delay going into it, but it'll almost certainly happen. Their delay will probably prolong the length of level 5 imo.

murpho999

Windmill100000 wrote: »

Well obviously case numbers will increase when restrictions relax. I don't think anyone is going to disagree with that. But do we stay in lockdown and deal with the significant other crises that result from it knowing that in spite of cases the vast majority of people do not die or are even hospitalised?

I see your points, I really do. I think we are just looking at this whole situation differently which is fine. I respect your position.

The majority do not die but over 2000 have. Imagine what that number would be if nothing had been done.

Also this new strain is out and could be more deadly. So those numbers could easily multiplied to tens of thousands.

I think this is going to be life for next 6-12 months until vacinne program rolls out and/or disease fizzles out.

ElJeffe

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

China back to normal is proof positive that lockdown works. We haven't had the stomach for the actions required to tackle this thing.

Completely agree. The half arsed half baked approach we've taken (and most western nations) is laughable.

TomTomTim

SusieBlue wrote: »

They have been continuously overstating and dramatising the threat on a daily basis since all this kicked off. Up until pretty recently they were still insisting that the looming threat of hundreds of thousands of deaths and millions of cases were a possibility when that isn’t the case at all.
They implied healthy young people were at severe risk of death long after it was clear that statistically this isn’t true.
They promoted the idea that giving your grandparent a hug made you a selfish granny killer.
They have perpetuated the notion that any form of social contact is extremely dangerous, reckless and selfish (see Tony’s tweets this week urging people to stay at home, and not see family or visit restaurants/shops, even though we aren’t in lockdown).

They showed videos of people literally dropping dead on the streets of China, some of which weren’t even legit, in order to put the fear into people.
They have been laying on the doom and negativity non stop, with any remotely positive news cast aside and given little to no publicity.
A pessimistic spin is put on pretty much everything, from low case numbers to the vaccination.
If you refuse to acknowledge this then I simply cannot help you.

I'm literally just after hearing someone on one of the RTE radio stations claim that "we're all in fear". Bad enough that they are pushing a fear driven agenda, what's worse is that they are claiming to talk for all of us.

murpho999

SusieBlue wrote: »

They have been continuously overstating and dramatising the threat on a daily basis since all this kicked off. Up until pretty recently they were still insisting that the looming threat of hundreds of thousands of deaths and millions of cases were a possibility when that isn’t the case at all.
They implied healthy young people were at severe risk of death long after it was clear that statistically this isn’t true.
They promoted the idea that giving your grandparent a hug made you a selfish granny killer.
They have perpetuated the notion that any form of social contact is extremely dangerous, reckless and selfish (see Tony’s tweets this week urging people to stay at home, and not see family or visit restaurants/shops, even though we aren’t in lockdown).

They showed videos of people literally dropping dead on the streets of China, some of which weren’t even legit, in order to put the fear into people.
They have been laying on the doom and negativity non stop, with any remotely positive news cast aside and given little to no publicity.
A pessimistic spin is put on pretty much everything, from low case numbers to the vaccination.
If you refuse to acknowledge this then I simply cannot help you.

Can you provide examples of these articles please because I haven't seen any. Also don't the media always sensationalise (which I think you're also doing in your posts) everything anyway, you're a fool if you believe everything in it but I have not seen videos of Chinese people dropping dead on the street allegedly due to Covid.

Tony Holohan's twitter is not part of the media. He's the Chief Medical Officer and he's advised not going to pubs and restraurants as he disagrees with the government's decisions on lockdown.

Elmer Blooker

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Absolutely not, the shops have been a disgrace, the coffee, the queues, the people piling on each other on south william street with the takeaway pints. But i think the pubs have become like the icrecream polio false causality, they are distanced, sanitised, screened, masked etc... the pubs are presenting way less problematic environs that most clothes stores yet are the quickest target for closure

Have you been even near South William Street recently?
The whole thing has been blown out of all proportion by the spoofers in the media and the 'experts'.
I've been there recently and while there may be small groups of young people the VAST majority are older people, all looking miserable and downtrodden.
The non stop partying on South William Street is not just a myth but downright lying.
I now know what Eastern Europe was like under communism!

Parabellum9

Windmill100000 wrote: »

Sadly I think we will, based purely on case numbers, not deaths.

~750 cases out of a population of 4.9 million, lets shut the whole country down yet again. I wonder how many people this week have caught the winter flu?

dalyboy

murpho999 wrote: »

Can you provide examples of these articles please because I haven't seen any. Also don't the media always sensationalise (which I think you're also doing in your posts) everything anyway, you're a fool if you believe everything in it but I have not seen videos of Chinese people dropping dead on the street allegedly due to Covid.

Tony Holohan's twitter is not part of the media. He's the Chief Medical Officer and he's advised not going to pubs and restraurants as he disagrees with the government's decisions on lockdown.

Here you go. There is countless media reporting on people dropping dead of covid way back in January. 2 months before we locked down international media were grooming us for the eventuality.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/10860656/coronavirus-horror-dead-man-street/

murpho999

murpho999 wrote: »

Can you provide examples of these articles please because I haven't seen any. Also don't the media always sensationalise (which I think you're also doing in your posts) everything anyway, you're a fool if you believe everything in it but I have not seen videos of Chinese people dropping dead on the street allegedly due to Covid.

Tony Holohan's twitter is not part of the media. He's the Chief Medical Officer and he's advised not going to pubs and restraurants as he disagrees with the government's decisions on lockdown.

You must be living under the rock if you missed it...

Our Taoiseach stated that 250K Irish could die back in March. Just 248K to go...

Sam McConkey was still saying 120K could die up until recently.

Gerry Killeen said we “would all” likely spend time in ICU with Covid over the next few years. Just a few million to go...

The hysteria has been off the charts. The reality is a relevantly small number of elderly have died WITH Covid.

weldoninhio

Deleted User wrote: »

You must be living under the rock if you missed it...

Our Taoiseach stated that 250K Irish could die back in March. Just 248K to go...

Sam McConkey was still saying 120K could die up until recently.

Gerry Killeen said we “would all” likely spend time in ICU with Covid over the next few years. Just a few million to go...

The hysteria has been off the charts. The reality is a relevantly small number of elderly have died WITH Covid.

And the vast majority of those deaths happened because NPHET and HSE introduced Covid into nursing homes.

SusieBlue

murpho999 wrote: »

Can you provide examples of these articles please because I haven't seen any. Also don't the media always sensationalise (which I think you're also doing in your posts) everything anyway, you're a fool if you believe everything in it but I have not seen videos of Chinese people dropping dead on the street allegedly due to Covid.

Tony Holohan's twitter is not part of the media. He's the Chief Medical Officer and he's advised not going to pubs and restraurants as he disagrees with the government's decisions on lockdown.

Here you go, a quick google pulled up these articles but there was many more knocking around at the time. All reputable new sources pumping out the hysteria and gloom.

https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2020/jan/31/a-man-lies-dead-in-the-street-the-image-that-captures-the-wuhan-coronavirus-crisis

https://www.thesun.ie/news/5021353/coronavirus-leaves-wuhan-a-zombieland-with-dead-lying-in-deserted-streets-and-medics-patrolling-in-hazmat-suits/amp/

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/coronavirus-latest-china-wuhan-picture-man-outbreak-a9310846.html?amp

Tony is in no position to undermine the government through his position as CMO.
He is of course entitled to his own opinion but he shouldn’t be posting it from his social media accounts linked to his capacity as CMO. The fact that you even think it’s acceptable for him to continuously undermine our elected representatives in that manner is absolutely mind blowing.

murpho999

Deleted User wrote: »

You must be living under the rock if you missed it...

Our Taoiseach stated that 250K Irish could die back in March. Just 248K to go...

Sam McConkey was still saying 120K could die up until recently.

Gerry Killeen said we “would all” likely spend time in ICU with Covid over the next few years. Just a few million to go...

The hysteria has been off the charts. The reality is a relevantly small number of elderly have died WITH Covid.

Look at what you wrote about the Taoiseach. He said it at the very start back in March when they were a lot of unknowns and no lockdowns.

Really, you're just taking stuff out of context.

I don't get why so many people depend on the media anyway for opinions.

murpho999

SusieBlue wrote: »

Here you go, a quick google pulled up these articles but there was many more knocking around at the time. All reputable new sources pumping out the hysteria and gloom.

https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2020/jan/31/a-man-lies-dead-in-the-street-the-image-that-captures-the-wuhan-coronavirus-crisis

https://www.thesun.ie/news/5021353/coronavirus-leaves-wuhan-a-zombieland-with-dead-lying-in-deserted-streets-and-medics-patrolling-in-hazmat-suits/amp/

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/coronavirus-latest-china-wuhan-picture-man-outbreak-a9310846.html?amp

Tony is in no position to undermine the government through his position as CMO.
He is of course entitled to his own opinion but he shouldn’t be posting it from his social media accounts linked to his capacity as CMO. The fact that you even think it’s acceptable for him to continuously undermine our elected representatives in that manner is absolutely mind blowing.

All 3 articles you provided are from January when it just broke in China so I will not accept it as evidence that the media now 11 months later are still pushing these.

Also 2 of your sources are from the UK and the other "Irish" paper is just an English rag.

Tony Holohan holds an independent office and is completely within his rights to offer opinions that are contrary to the government.

I'd actually trust him more as this is a medical issue and not a political one.

murpho999

dalyboy wrote: »

Here you go. There is countless media reporting on people dropping dead of covid way back in January. 2 months before we locked down international media were grooming us for the eventuality.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/10860656/coronavirus-horror-dead-man-street/

Ok, an atricle from one of the worst English papers and it's from January when all this was breaking.

I'm not accepting this as proof that the Irish media is scaremongering the Irish population.

Anybody who depends on The Sun for news is an idiot in my opinion.